Folks with kids, are you upfront?

[kaylan]

Im about to cancel a date with this mid 20s chick because she didnt let me know about kids anywhere during conversation the last few days. We have a date for the middle of next week, but I just found out about the kids today because I asked her who the kids were in a few of her instagram pictures. Plus during our convos shes mentioned how she doesnt wanna just hook up. So Im thinking, if your possibly looking for something more serious than casual, mention the damn kids upfront please.

 

We started talking on Tinder, but her Tinder profile, nor her pictures, dont say anything about children. I was turned off because it felt like she was not being upfront, and Ive seen other women on Tinder put up pictures of their kids or state it in that little profile paragraph.

 

Whats also odd is my perception of single moms based on their age. Im talking to a different woman in her 30s who has kids, but theyre from a previous marriage, and shes got her ish together. Plus usually a woman in her 30s doesnt usually have small kids, so her situation didnt bother me much.

 

For some reason a woman in her 20s just screams "I didnt get married before I had these kids, and we will have a hard time dating because of my small children". Also, itd be too much hassle having more than 1 person in my dating life with kids. I need room for typical young fun stuff.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 14, 2014 by kaylan

[slizl]

At least you know she puts out I kid I kid (pun intended). I have two kids and there are plenty of times that I don't bring them up. In OLD, I always state that I have kids, but if I meet a girl in a bar, no way. I will disclose the kids if I intend on seeing a girl again, but if it's just a random hook up, what do they care?

[saltyfishhead666]

Im about to cancel a date with this mid 20s chick because she didnt let me know about kids anywhere during conversation the last few days. We have a date for the middle of next week, but I just found out about the kids today because I asked her who the kids were in a few of her instagram pictures. Plus during our convos shes mentioned how she doesnt wanna just hook up. So Im thinking, if your possibly looking for something more serious than casual, mention the damn kids upfront please.

 

 

 

 

If you don't have room for children simply don't date a single parent. It really peeves me off in general that men say oh no single mums. That woman was probably in a good relationship and was probably ditched and left with those kids. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve love too... Not ranting at you btw simply in general as I am one of those mums that married young and have kids.

 

Anyhow I mention my children. Especially as I have one who has severe autism. I don't want to date someone who says hey I want you and not your kids eventually.

 

She was wrong not to mention it however it probably wasn't an intention to deceive you. It was more likely a case of being lost in the moment.

Edited March 15, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[pickflicker]

Why a person is not with the father/mother of their children is an intensely personal thing that you should not judge so harshly. Not is it info that you are automatically entitled to. Perhaps their partner died. Perhaps they were smart enough to realise that a co-parenting situation was better than then being together.

 

Here's a solution - why not just put "please, no single parents" on your profile?

[kaylan]

^Why not they let potential interests know up front that they have children? I mean that's important information to know with regards to dating somebody. Its usually on the people with baggage to put that information in their profile.

 

And if you read my OP fully, you would see that I'm talking to another woman who has kids. I'm more put off by younger women with young kids, not older women with kids. And the big thing for me was the lack of being upfront.

[pickflicker]

^Why not they let potential interests know up front that they have children? I mean that's important information to know with regards to dating somebody. Its usually on the people with baggage to put that information in their profile.

 

And if you read my OP fully, you would see that I'm talking to another woman who has kids. I'm more put off by younger women with young kids, not older women with kids. And the big thing for me was the lack of being upfront.

 

I think you need to cut them a wee bit of slack. If they went months without telling you, fine. If they waited a few days, chill out. You're taking it way too seriously. The vast majority of people that date single parents won't even meet the kids, let alone share their lives with them. So if a few days goes by without them mentioning it, I don't see the big deal.

 

You can "expect" people to behave a certain way all you want, but that expectation will more than likely bite you in the arse. So just pre-empt it.

 

No kids, btw, but I have dated a few single fathers. They have enough on their plate without me busting their chops about their kids.

[veggirl]

I agree she should have mentioned it very quickly. Esp cause she is in an age range where having kids AND being out there dating is not the norm. You'd THINK that a 25 yr old with kids would be married to or at least still dating the father cause the kids are likely toddlers! Most 25 yr olds dating don't have kids, she should put it in her profile or tell people in an early convo. At that age-range, kids are definitely a dealbreaker to a lot of guys. I'd bet she's realized this and is hoping guys who don't wanna date a girl with kids will like her enough before they find out to keep dating her after they find out.

[kaylan]

I think you need to cut them a wee bit of slack. If they went months without telling you, fine. If they waited a few days, chill out. You're taking it way too seriously. The vast majority of people that date single parents won't even meet the kids, let alone share their lives with them. So if a few days goes by without them mentioning it, I don't see the big deal.

 

You can "expect" people to behave a certain way all you want, but that expectation will more than likely bite you in the arse. So just pre-empt it.

 

No kids, btw, but I have dated a few single fathers. They have enough on their plate without me busting their chops about their kids.

Oh boy, youre missing the point.

 

Let people know you have kids BEFORE you schedule a date. Dont waste peoples time. Luckily I found out before the date. I dont need to cut strangers slack. Im trying to use my dating time efficiently.

Edited March 15, 2014 by kaylan

[pickflicker]

Oh boy, youre missing the point.

 

Let people know you have kids BEFORE you schedule a date. Dont waste peoples time. Luckily I found out before the date. I dont need to cut strangers slack. Im trying to use my dating time efficiently.

 

Not really. I just think you're overly critical. And it's not working for you.

[lollipopspot]

OP, I'm not sure that she was hiding it...maybe she just didn't figure it factors into her casual dating life. It's too hard to say without questioning her reasons more fully. So I wouldn't cancel because you are making assumptions about her reasons for not telling you (which you really don't know), but I would cancel if you absolutely can't see yourself around toddlers, and you want a more serious relationship.

 

You'd THINK that a 25 yr old with kids would be married to or at least still dating the father cause the kids are likely toddlers!

 

A lot of unmarried or no longer married people have toddlers, I don't think it's very unusual. I was a toddler when my parents divorced.

[veggirl]

OP, I'm not sure that she was hiding it...maybe she just didn't figure it factors into her casual dating life. It's too hard to say without questioning her reasons more fully. So I wouldn't cancel because you are making assumptions about her reasons for not telling you (which you really don't know), but I would cancel if you absolutely can't see yourself around toddlers, and you want a more serious relationship.

 

 

 

A lot of unmarried or no longer married people have toddlers, I don't think it's very unusual. I was a toddler when my parents divorced.

 

I think it's quite unusual to be a never married, or divorced, single mom at 25. I can think of exactly 0 people I know/have known who fit that criteria. Wait, no, my former roommate had a kid w/ a guy she was barely dating at 26. However, most 25 yr olds who have children are either married or in a relationship w/ the dad, I'd think. Most 25 yr olds aren't divorced or never married w/ kid(s!?). It is not the norm, whatsoever. This girl KNOWS that is a dealbreaker for lots of guys her age, I'm sure of it. So why not just put it out there to weed those guys out? Easy enough.

 

Also her casual dating life? OP said she is looking for something serious, not casual dating.

[Michael91]

I think you need to cut them a wee bit of slack. If they went months without telling you, fine. If they waited a few days, chill out. You're taking it way too seriously. ...So if a few days goes by without them mentioning it, I don't see the big deal.

 

You can "expect" people to behave a certain way all you want, but that expectation will more than likely bite you in the arse.

I agree. You are really being overly critical.

 

I can understand that she is slow to reveal that she has children because when she reveals the fact, guys quickly disappear. Therefore, she is hoping that a guy will fall for her before she reveals that she has children.

[lollipopspot]

I think it's quite unusual to be a never married, or divorced, single mom at 25.

 

No, not unusual for those who give birth -

 

Almost two-thirds of births to women 20-24 were nonmarital (64.8%), the age group with the highest number of nonmarital births

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_09.pdf

 

This girl KNOWS that is a dealbreaker for lots of guys her age, I'm sure of it. So why not just put it out there to weed those guys out? Easy enough.

 

I'm not just trying to be contrary, but I don't know what this girl knows. I put myself in OP's position, and if I talked to a guy for a few days and it turned out he had a toddler, I wouldn't necessarily be thrown off by it in the sense that I thought he was hiding it from me, but I guess it would depend on the content of our conversations. if it was just being flirty, then no. If we were really talking about our lives, then yes. We don't even know if this kid lives with the mother, or if the grandmother lives with them and does most of the childcare, etc. I don't assume it has to be a traditional arrangement.

[veggirl]

No, not unusual for those who give birth -

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_09.pdf

 

 

 

I'm not just trying to be contrary, but I don't know what this girl knows. I put myself in OP's position, and if I talked to a guy for a few days and it turned out he had a toddler, I wouldn't necessarily be thrown off by it in the sense that I thought he was hiding it from me, but I guess it would depend on the content of our conversations. if it was just being flirty, then no. If we were really talking about our lives, then yes. We don't even know if this kid lives with the mother, or if the grandmother lives with them and does most of the childcare, etc. I don't assume it has to be a traditional arrangement.

 

2/3rds of births TO women 20-24....that doesn't mean that a lot of 20-24 yr olds have children.

 

I just think it's common sense to divulge the kid-info right away. I guess it's not, but I understand Kaylan's annoyance. If you've had any type of get to know you convo how does that NOT come up unless you don't want it to.

[lollipopspot]

2/3rds of births TO women 20-24....that doesn't mean that a lot of 20-24 yr olds have children.

 

I said "for those who give birth." You'd have to find what percentage of women have kids at 24 to know how common it is, but I don't believe it's as uncommon as you think it is, just because you don't know any.

[kaylan]

Not really. I just think you're overly critical. And it's not working for you.

 

Its working just fine. Thanks to my cancellation, I'm now able to prioritize my time around women who are upfront. Thats the kind of lady I like.

[kaylan]

I agree. You are really being overly critical.

 

I can understand that she is slow to reveal that she has children because when she reveals the fact, guys quickly disappear. Therefore, she is hoping that a guy will fall for her before she reveals that she has children.

 

So trying to hoodwink a guy so he can get emotionally attached 1st. How nice.

No, not unusual for those who give birth -

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_09.pdf

 

 

 

I'm not just trying to be contrary, but I don't know what this girl knows. I put myself in OP's position, and if I talked to a guy for a few days and it turned out he had a toddler, I wouldn't necessarily be thrown off by it in the sense that I thought he was hiding it from me, but I guess it would depend on the content of our conversations. if it was just being flirty, then no. If we were really talking about our lives, then yes. We don't even know if this kid lives with the mother, or if the grandmother lives with them and does most of the childcare, etc. I don't assume it has to be a traditional arrangement.

the point is that you don't tell someone that you have kids after you already scheduled a date. I'd have no problem with someone telling me they had kids if it was before we schedule a date.

Edited March 15, 2014 by kaylan

[Assasda]

always be upfront

[saltyfishhead666]

I agree she should have mentioned it very quickly. Esp cause she is in an age range where having kids AND being out there dating is not the norm. You'd THINK that a 25 yr old with kids would be married to or at least still dating the father cause the kids are likely toddlers! Most 25 yr olds dating don't have kids, she should put it in her profile or tell people in an early convo. At that age-range, kids are definitely a dealbreaker to a lot of guys. I'd bet she's realized this and is hoping guys who don't wanna date a girl with kids will like her enough before they find out to keep dating her after they find out.

 

 

 

No you'd "like to think" they would still be married or dating the father. The sad reality is it's not usually the case.

 

I had my son at 19 got married at 20. My eldest will be 7 this year and my youngest will be 2 soon. I'm only 26

As much as it peeves me I see it from both directions.

 

If I was a man I'd be shakey about children.

 

But as a woman all I see is men assuming that women with children did something wrong. When it reality the likeliness it he gets her pregnant and then ditches them both. Not their fault at all. What are mothers supposed to do. Wait until their kids are 16 and start dating again? That's an awful lot of time to be alone

[saltyfishhead666]

No you'd "like to think" they would still be married or dating the father. The sad reality is it's not usually the case.

 

I had my son at 19 got married at 20. My eldest will be 7 this year and my youngest will be 2 soon. I'm only 26

As much as it peeves me I see it from both directions.

 

If I was a man I'd be shakey about children.

 

But as a woman all I see is men assuming that women with children did something wrong. When it reality the likeliness it he gets her pregnant and then ditches them both. Not their fault at all. What are mothers supposed to do. Wait until their kids are 16 and start dating again? That's an awful lot of time to be alone

 

 

Op I fully believe she should have told you upfront. Although I still believe it wasn't to deceive you. Regardless you've cancelled the date already. Probably would have done you some good to go actually. You may have really liked her and then her child/ren wouldn't have been a deal breaker.

 

I hope you told her exactly why you broke off the date so she's not going to assume your busy and simply need to reschedule?

[Ninjainpajamas]

No you'd "like to think" they would still be married or dating the father. The sad reality is it's not usually the case.

 

I had my son at 19 got married at 20. My eldest will be 7 this year and my youngest will be 2 soon. I'm only 26

As much as it peeves me I see it from both directions.

 

If I was a man I'd be shakey about children.

 

But as a woman all I see is men assuming that women with children did something wrong. When it reality the likeliness it he gets her pregnant and then ditches them both. Not their fault at all. What are mothers supposed to do. Wait until their kids are 16 and start dating again? That's an awful lot of time to be alone

 

So you think it's not your fault at all all while you're divorced with two children? How about the responsibility to look after yourself? did he make you spread your legs or have unprotected sex or get pregnant? did he make you say "I do" too? did he make you get pregnant once again?

 

How about the responsibility to make good decisions that preserve your own well-being?

 

You were just born to serve the will of this man and simply helpless to do anything for yourself? Does he own you or something? therefore everything that happened was his fault for not "fixing" it?

 

That's the problem with a lot of women, always trying to play the victim and escape any responsibility and accountability, they think just because the man didn't do what he was supposed to do or be the kind of guy he was supposed to be that it is entirely his fault. And no responsibility for it, like if they can entrust this man with their entire lives as if they have no other self-worth but to answer to his call and make this "love" work...it's insanity.

 

Everybody has a responsibility and the power in their lives to make their own decisions/choices therefore they inherit the consequences, including the people they choose to marry and have children with and you shouldn't blame anyone else entirely for the events that follow, because you can always walk away, you always had a so say, you always had a choice...just because you didn't have the strength, wisdom or courage to walk away and essentially do what you needed to do for yourself, doesn't make him the bad guy, after all...he was just as young, immature and naive as you were.

 

You can't do anything anymore, you already made your decisions...but you can't expect any young guy in their early to mid 20's to accept the huge life-changing decisions you made that will forever impact your life and play a significant role in a relationship, IMO anyone who gets married before their mid 20's at the earliest and pops out kids as well is way ahead of their level of maturity and capability in today's world and as adults in general...doesn't mean you won't grow up and learn, and become mature and wise eventually, but you're way ahead of yourself and I think people need more time to grow and find themselves, especially men.

 

I really don't know how man has survived on this earth for so long making babies so young and becoming parents so early on...it just doesn't seem like mentally people are prepared for it at that age, It's no wonder those relationships don't last when you hardly know much about anything in this world...but I guess you do what you have to in the end. I for one don't think it has anything to do with love or soulmates, the chances of someone finding their true love or soulmate on the entire earth by 19 who just happens to live nearby or go to the same school or whatever it is, I mean c'mon...you gotta be shettin me.

 

But at 19 I might have believed it!

[saltyfishhead666]

So you think it's not your fault at all all while you're divorced with two children? How about the responsibility to look after yourself? did he make you spread your legs or have unprotected sex or get pregnant? did he make you say "I do" too? did he make you get pregnant once again?

 

How about the responsibility to make good decisions that preserve your own well-being?

 

You were just born to serve the will of this man and simply helpless to do anything for yourself? Does he own you or something? therefore everything that happened was his fault for not "fixing" it?

 

That's the problem with a lot of women, always trying to play the victim and escape any responsibility and accountability, they think just because the man didn't do what he was supposed to do or be the kind of guy he was supposed to be that it is entirely his fault. And no responsibility for it, like if they can entrust this man with their entire lives as if they have no other self-worth but to answer to his call and make this "love" work...it's insanity.

 

Everybody has a responsibility and the power in their lives to make their own decisions/choices therefore they inherit the consequences, including the people they choose to marry and have children with and you shouldn't blame anyone else entirely for the events that follow, because you can always walk away, you always had a so say, you always had a choice...just because you didn't have the strength, wisdom or courage to walk away and essentially do what you needed to do for yourself, doesn't make him the bad guy, after all...he was just as young, immature and naive as you were.

 

You can't do anything anymore, you already made your decisions...but you can't expect any young guy in their early to mid 20's to accept the huge life-changing decisions you made that will forever impact your life and play a significant role in a relationship, IMO anyone who gets married before their mid 20's at the earliest and pops out kids as well is way ahead of their level of maturity and capability in today's world and as adults in general...doesn't mean you won't grow up and learn, and become mature and wise eventually, but you're way ahead of yourself and I think people need more time to grow and find themselves, especially men.

 

I really don't know how man has survived on this earth for so long making babies so young and becoming parents so early on...it just doesn't seem like mentally people are prepared for it at that age, It's no wonder those relationships don't last when you hardly know much about anything in this world...but I guess you do what you have to in the end. I for one don't think it has anything to do with love or soulmates, the chances of someone finding their true love or soulmate on the entire earth by 19 who just happens to live nearby or go to the same school or whatever it is, I mean c'mon...you gotta be shettin me.

 

But at 19 I might have believed it!

 

 

 

You can be sure as **** at 19 I believed that, I think most women do. We Were together 4 years so I'd have liked to have thought we would be more suited.

 

Yes it is his fault he's not here not mine. Then again when you get married and finally discover he has copious amounts of women with other kids that I didn't know of or his family I think it's fair to say he's taking the blame. At which point I grew some lady ball kicked his ass to the curb and became accountable for my decisions

 

Since then I qualified as an accountant so I could provide for myself and my child. I raise a severely autistic child and a toddler by myself.

 

So where as you might not give me any props and all you see is a woman complaining about being ditched a lot of other people in this world would give me props for not falling apart.

[pickflicker]

You can be sure as **** at 19 I believed that, I think most women do. We Were together 4 years so I'd have liked to have thought we would be more suited.

 

Yes it is his fault he's not here not mine. Then again when you get married and finally discover he has copious amounts of women with other kids that I didn't know of or his family I think it's fair to say he's taking the blame. At which point I grew some lady ball kicked his ass to the curb and became accountable for my decisions

 

Since then I qualified as an accountant so I could provide for myself and my child. I raise a severely autistic child and a toddler by myself.

 

So where as you might not give me any props and all you see is a woman complaining about being ditched a lot of other people in this world would give me props for not falling apart.

 

Don't justify yourself to Ninja's post, it was bloody rude.

[Ninjainpajamas]

You can be sure as **** at 19 I believed that, I think most women do. We Were together 4 years so I'd have liked to have thought we would be more suited.

 

Yes it is his fault he's not here not mine. Then again when you get married and finally discover he has copious amounts of women with other kids that I didn't know of or his family I think it's fair to say he's taking the blame. At which point I grew some lady ball kicked his ass to the curb and became accountable for my decisions

 

Since then I qualified as an accountant so I could provide for myself and my child. I raise a severely autistic child and a toddler by myself.

 

So where as you might not give me any props and all you see is a woman complaining about being ditched a lot of other people in this world would give me props for not falling apart.

 

First off, has nothing to do with who you are as a mother today and your responsibility and accountability for your children, that is an entirely separate subject. The burden that falls on everyone else's shoulders but his I imagine is great.

 

I don't think men in their 20's at all overlook women with children because of how they perceive them to be as quality mothers, that has nothing to do with it.

 

It was merely a point that you are responsible for your decisions in a romantic relationship and just in life, you should take ownership of that whether you were at fault for the final result or not, but it has nothing to do with how you are as a mother. You are accountable by just being present in a relationship in responsibility of what occurs within the limits of your control or understanding, however many just claim "I didn't know, can't blame me, sorry, just his fault...that's a perfectly good excuse for me"

 

Look around these forums, you'll constantly see the pattern of women putting all the responsibility in the hands of the man in their relationships, as if he holds the key that unlocks everything, the only responsible decision she feels she typically needs to make is the one at the end (ultimatums) IF things get pushed to that limit and she can ever muster up the courage, or she cuts the cord before it gets too deep in the relationship, however rather than being responsible for their own decisions and feeling like they have a voice for themselves within it, some will tell the internet world of strangers before they ever take up that transparency and direct-thoughts/feelings with their SO, lest "jeopardize" the fine balance of their relationship...after all, they don't want to "lose" such a precious diamond of a relationship.

 

So it's not too hard to see you as the typical 19 year old, enamored and head over heels in love thinking that the magic would last forever, thinking you knew far more than you ever really did, because the fact of the matter is you likely never took any of the red flags seriously anyway.

 

The reality is relationships aren't black and white either and I doubt this guy is a secret service level spy at the age of 19 who can successfully lead a secret double-trip-quadruple life over the course of 7 years, but I don't know enough about your relationship to even comment further on it...but go ahead, take a number on "it was all his fault, I was a victim" along with all the other women he's impregnated, I'm sure that's going to help you and every other woman on the planet from making the same mistakes, it's unfortunate that's the best answer they'll be able to give their children when dead beat dad isn't around, I'm sure that's going to answer a lot of questions.

 

The reason I'm being so hard on you is not because I think you're a bad person or horrible mother, the reason is if women don't start taking more responsibility, increasing their awareness, communicating with each other about men and helping them achieve more clarity and understanding and doing more to take responsibility in what they can do to filter out guys like this or at least put them through the test, then men like this will continue to ruin lives the world over...because I bet your @ss, this guy will walk from one girl to the next, and in spite of having all these children, in spite of all these selfish decisions he has made...nothing would prevent him from doing it again to an overly trusting and naive woman, but you know who pays the price of that? these kids, whom these women take care of and then have to meet other men who are willing to do what dear old dad refused to do, be there for them.

 

It's a sad cycle that continues to perpetuate itself, because for one, there's not much consequence and accountability towards the fathers as their should be, and secondly there's nothing keeping another woman from being the "victim" once again, the claim that they lack the ability to determine something like that and the fact that they feel emotional about it so they just blame the man should be good enough I guess.

 

I'll never understand how people can just pop out kids based on these youthful and idealistic perceptions, as if they have no responsibility over everything that's going to occur next in these kids lives...hell maybe I should start impregnating the world, here I come ladies, watch out! because If I'm not wearing a shirt that's saying "Watch out I'm a bad guy, I have 10 kids with my b!tches!" she'll never have a clue what's coming until it's too late!

[Art_Critic]

To be fair she also wasn't hiding them, they were in her pictures on instagram in full view.

 

I will say though I never ran into this when I was dating but would expect a woman to have kids to make it known to me unless we met someplace not dating related like a gas station.