Back in the dating world

[aviator423]

Hello. I'm new to this forum, so I hope what I'm posting is appropriate fodder for discussion.

 

I'm a 45-year old man. I have a son and an ex-wife. My son lives with his mother most of the time. We have shared parenting.

 

I work in the travel business, and am able to travel pretty much for free anywhere. The catch is, I'm also on the road a lot (which would be hard on any relationship).

 

A few months ago, I stuck my toe back in the dating waters again for the first time in 18 years. Internet dating wasn't an option back then, so this is new to me.

 

I met an amazing lady who lives about 300 miles away, but near a major airport, so (with my travel privileges), it didn't seem an insurmountable problem. She was leery of the long distance thing at first, but was willing to try. She's about my same age, has a good job, and is also divorced, but has no kids.

 

We met for coffee in her town and hit it off immediately. There was just this instant chemistry. We laughed at each others' jokes and could almost finish each others' sentences on that first date. We were holding hands and planning our next date within a couple of hours.

 

Obviously, first dates are exciting, but the ensuing months were amazing too. But now things have hit that "rocky" stage that every relationship hits. And if this is just a rough patch we need to work through, I'm willing to work hard. But I'm sensing there might be more here than meets the eye, and I'm a little worried.

 

To start with, one night right before we met, she just abruptly hung up on me. No, "I'm tired, goodnight." No, "I really need to do some chores..." Nothing. She just hung up. I called both her phone numbers back and got no answer. I didn't keep repeatedly calling because I know that's just creepy, but I was left with this sense of foreboding all night long that made it hard to sleep. After we met for that first date, I asked her once what happened. She said she had just gotten so overwhelmed at the thought that we would actually be meeting for real that she couldn't talk any more, became overwhelmed with emotion, and hung up. I asked her to please at least tell me "goodbye" any time we hung up and that I would always respect her need for space if she needed any.

 

Within a month, she had given me a key to her house. She said she wanted me to treat it as if it's my home (due to my divorce and my frequent travel, I live in a simple studio apartment). She even left me alone at her place one weekday that I had off and she had to work. I never took advantage of the privacy to snoop through her stuff, and in fact I tried to help her out by walking her dog, doing dishes, running the vacuum and the like.

 

But things got weird a couple of months in. Obviously, the schedule is a problem. I'm out of town a lot. I get 8 days a month with my son, so moving to where she is isn't an option right now. I'm lucky enough to have more than 10 days off a month, but not THAT much more. Trying to spend time together is challenging, and it's starting to strain us. But again, I'd be willing to work hard at a long distance relationship if the other elements were good.

 

Looking back, I'm embarrassed to admit that we've almost broken up more than once, often over seemingly minor things. I have a very good female friend who is a strictly platonic friend. She was going through a tough spot a few months back with a bad breakup. At first, I kept ignoring my friend's texts, but my gf insisted that I reply to her. She said something like "You friend needs you. I'm not threatened at all. Answer her...."

 

A couple of weeks later I mentioned in passing that I had traded a few texts with my friend to see how she was doing. My gf immediately said, "I don't want to do this, but I think we need to break up." She then immediately retracted what she said, and then said she was just feeling a little jealous but that I should continue being there for my friend (my friend lives several states away and I never see her face-to-face, so proximity is not the issue). And I understand feeling jealous of situations like this, but I'm not sure threatening to break up just because your boyfriend says he's been texting a woman who he's been platonic friends with for YEARS is the most appropriate way to express those feelings.

 

She has admitted to me that she's prone to bizarre behavior when she sleeps. She's been known to sleep walk. Without a prescription sleeping pill, so usually only sleeps about 2 hours a night. She'll get up at 3 AM and clean her kitchen floors. She says she used to sleep walk. She got ready to drive to work one morning and there was a fast-food bag in her car from a place she rarely visits, so she's always wondered if she drove somewhere in her sleep.

 

She has a very trouble relationship with her family. Her older sister died of cancer last year, and instead of attending the funeral she said she went to a beach in Mexico with a guy she was dating at the time. She hasn't spoken to her mother in years (admittedly, her mother sounds like a nut case).

 

I've met her father once and he struck me as a raging narcissist; every story he told was about "me, me, me." What was more troubling was watching my girlfriend around her father....it's almost like she reverted from this confident, amazing woman, to a forgetful, fearful, little girl. She even forgot why she was melting butter when she was cooking (this woman is an AMAZING cook, so her losing her way in her own kitchen was disconcerting). Her father is such a jerk he just abruptly left town two days into a week long visit with a simple note "Gone home." I suspect he didn't think she was paying him enough attention.

 

But back to us. We had decided not to introduce my son to her until and unless we've dated at least a year. She has always seemed to look forward to meeting him. One night, she admitted to me that she had smoked pot within the last year. I knew she had done drugs in college, but she said that was long past. I was a little disturbed that she said she had specifically sought out the LSD that had rat poison in it, but again, I'd hate to be made to answer for things I did 25 years ago. But to hear that she had smoked pot within the past year was disturbing, since I had made it clear to her from the start that drugs (beyond alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco) were deal-breakers for me. She explained she had smoked the pot at the encouragement of a guy she was dating at the time, and she quickly kicked him out of her life because she knew he was no good for her. And she assured me that beyond alcohol, caffeine and tobacco, and her prescription sleeping pill, she doesn't normally do drugs. And she's trying to quit smoking. But it still seemed to go against this image she portrays as a professional, intelligent, squared-away businesswoman.

 

When she brought up the pot, I told her that I was concerned to hear that because I still wanted her to meet my son and that I had to be absolutely sure that drugs were not part of her life any more. She became offended that I questioned her, and said, "Why would I ever want to meet your son anyway?" She then pointed around her house (she has a very nice house and keeps it very nice) and said, "How dare you - a mere guest - come in here and question my life. If I were irresponsible, would I have been able to afford THIS?" I almost walked out the door right then. As it was, we went to separate rooms. Later on, she calmed down, we talked it through, and she said she was just stressed at the strains of my travel schedule. But I felt like something fundamental happened that night, a shift to a bad place.

 

A few weeks ago, she found out her mother had cancer. She called me to talk about it. I was in my hotel room, heating up some spaghetti in the microwave when the phone rang (talk about bad timing). Just as she called, the spaghetti exploded and I saw what a mess it was making so I asked her if she could hang on a second while I tried to make sure the mess didn't get worse. She said, "Well, I'm sorry my mother dying isn't as important to you as exploding spaghetti." I tried to apologize (looking back on it, I can see that I wasn't as empathetic as I should have been at that moment), but she abruptly hung up on me. I decided not to try to call back until she had cooled off a little. We eventually patched things up and moved on. She's still struggling with how to handle the news of her mother's cancer. She still loves her mother on some level, but she also has too much baggage. I've told her that I'm reluctant to inject myself into the complex relationship she has with her mother, but if she wants us to go to where her mother lives, I'd be willing to meet her if it's important. So far, she can't decide what she wants to do.

 

My ex-wife has her own issues, one of which is not respecting boundaries. It's probably obvious by now that I have my issues as well (we all do). My main issues are I try to be a "nice guy" and keep the peace at all costs. So I'm not always real good at enforcing boundaries. This past week, I sent my ex an e-mail stating that I needed her to abide by the divorce decree regarding visitation with my son (there's been some "slippage" lately). My ex called me to complain about what I had put in the e-mail just as my gf and I were getting ready to leave on a date Friday night. I answered the phone originally because my ex never calls me at night and I was afraid something was wrong with my son. But obviously, talking to an ex-wife / co-parent right before date night is not mood-enhancing. Looking back, I can see how I should have just let it go to voice mail. But it put a damper on the entire evening. When we got back to her place that night, she told me she was giving me three weeks to "do something" to put a leash on my ex-wife or else she was kicking me to the curb. I think those were her exact words.

 

The next morning, she told me she had been too harsh and that she retracted that threat. But she also says that she's been getting increasingly frustrated by the way our relationship is going. We've traded e-mails this week in an attempt to clarify our thinking. I tried to call her this week to talk about it, and she basically said she didn't want to talk, so we hung up. Other than e-mails, we haven't spoken this week.

 

Here's where I'm concerned: If this was just about me being a knucklehead and not always making her feel cherished, I plead guilty. Our relationship is complicated, I have a complicated life, and sometimes I get too focused on surviving the drama. I'm willing to work hard and try to do better.

 

On the other hand, I see some red flags that concern me: Her past drug use (and recent drug use) is disturbing, because for me, illegal drug use is NOT NEGOTIABLE. It's a deal-breaker. Her tendency to abruptly cut off conversations that are getting uncomfortable is not good. The fact that she's almost broken up with me on more than one occasion - and sometimes because I was doing something she had encouraged me to do a week earlier - is not healthy.

 

When things were good between us they were amazing. She's an amazing woman in so many regards. But I've had enough drama for one lifetime. If I'm just a knucklehead who needs to get his act together and man up, I can do that. But I'll be honest and say that I don't feel very safe emotionally around her right now, and I can't tell if that's because I have issues or if my gut is trying to tell me to beware.

 

Anybody have any insight?

[TAV]

My 2 cents? She has to stop doing the whole childish hanging up the phone/shutting you out thing but learn how to communicate instead. You have to show a little bit more sensitivity when it comes to things like having 'a discussion' with your ex-wife just before a date with her; as soon as you found out your son was ok you should have nipped it in the bud, focused on your date instead and dealt with your wife in the morning. She sounds like a woman with a lot of baggage, she is amazing to you but you don't seem to be embracing everything that comes with this woman. She may be so amazing because she has been through a lot and grown through it. You have to decide for yourself if she is worth taking it all on board. Not wanting to get mixed up in her history with her mom tells me you only want the good and not the bad. I'm sure that if you manage to make her feel safe and loved she will be a much easier person to deal with. If you cannot do that for her than you are probably not ready for a new serious relationship.

[HappyLove]

More proof that men love CRAZY!

[Gaeta]

More proof that men love CRAZY!

Yep! I know that's why I am still single, I don't have any issues.

[Hello_is_it_me]

I would never judge someone on smoking some pot (not my bag but if they want, go ahead). Thats like judging someone for drinking a beer. Now if it was her doing some more of the rat poison laced LSD then I think I'd be more concerned lol!

 

Anyways, right from the moment of the abrupt ending phone call thing I wouldn't been planning my exit strategy. That would have been a red flag large enough for me.

[aviator423]

So far, there are two replies and together they encapsulate my confusion. One says I need to be more sensitive and more understanding. The other.implies she's crazy (and I guess by implication that this isn't right for me). Sigh..I'm still confused. I'm willing to do my part, but I also know it takes two. The constant threats to break up, the self-admitted past drug use.... I'm scared that there might be more here than hurt feelings over my admittedly insensitive behavior.

[johnson_j]

So far, there are two replies and together they encapsulate my confusion. One says I need to be more sensitive and more understanding. The other.implies she's crazy (and I guess by implication that this isn't right for me). Sigh..I'm still confused. I'm willing to do my part, but I also know it takes two. The constant threats to break up, the self-admitted past drug use.... I'm scared that there might be more here than hurt feelings over my admittedly insensitive behavior.

 

 

 

Red flags I see are the 1) constant threats to break up, and 2) drug use that admittedly is due to peer-pressure, and 3) using threats (including passive ones like hanging up the phone) to get what she wants.

 

 

Sounds like an insecure girl to me. Note the comment about the house and being able to afford nice things.

 

 

Based on your job you have good reasons to avoid drama and drug use. Hard to say here and easier said than done, but next time she threatened a break up I'd give her just that and leave.

[GemmaUK]

We are seeing only one side of the story here.

 

One sentence in there told me all I needed to know.

 

Let her go. She no longer wants this relationship.

 

It's best for you both.

 

She isn't ever going to be as you want her to be and she is working on not being so as to push you away.

[mrs rubble]

I think you have pretty much settled for the first lady you met online. You've rushed in too quickly. Take your time in the future.

From what you've written, this woman seems very self absorbed and materialistic.

People don't seem to be important to her.

Why would she EVER want to meet your son?.....because it would prove that she cares about you and who you care about and what means the most to you. Obviously she only cares about her and her nutty mother......remember the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I gauruntee you can do loads better than her!

[ExpatInItaly]

Oy vey. Far, far too much drama for the first few months of a relationship. You are not dating a woman; you're dating a girl in an adult's body. She of course has her positive characteristics....but there appear to be more negatives. I'd let her go the next time she threatens to walk out. Actually, I'd save her the effort of uttering those threats and simply tell her it's not working for you and you wish her well.

[Gottabestrong]

Too much drama for a new relationship. I am sure you like her a lot and she is a great person, but do you think you simply settled for the first woman you came across that you had some mutual interest with?

 

My advice would be to let this one go. A relationship is not always smooth sailing and it takes work, but it sounds like the bad outweighs the good in this relationship. It just does not sound like this is going to work out long-term. Better end it now.

 

Good luck!

[Happy01]

I agree with those who say too much drama. The distance alone will strain a relationship, however, if you're both on the same page with everything else, it should work out.

 

I see your girlfriend eventually resenting time you spend with your son. Of course, we are only hearing your side, but she already has issues with your talking to your ex wife about your child. You should never let a call from your son's mother go to voice mail if you suspect it's about your child. Absolutely never, and everyone in your life would need to know and accept that.

 

My opinion ... This seems to be a lot of work for a new and "first" relationship.

 

Too much twisting, ducking and rolling ... you are not a pretzel!!

 

Good luck.

[aviator423]

Well, here's an update of sorts....

 

I told her that I haven't felt emotionally safe lately and that we needed to establish a few boundaries. I returned the key to her house and said that I wasn't comfortable with that level of familiarity yet. I told her that if either of us ever threatened a breakup again, it was the same thing as actually breaking up, so she needed to be prepared for that if she ever makes that threat again. I promised I'd keep her insulated for the time being from drama with my ex, but my relationship with my son must always come first. And that we needed to slow down....we'd been rushing this too much.

 

She was actually quite receptive to these boundaries and agreed with them. My visit with her this weekend went much better. I also told her repeatedly that I'm ready to listen to talk about her conflicted feelings about her mother, or even go see get mother if she wants. So far, she's not ready to open that door yet, but she appreciated my offer.

 

We'll see how this goes...... I'm not getting my hopes up yet....

[aviator423]

Well, after establishing some boundaries and sticking with them for a couple of weeks, things seemed to be getting much better. But last night, things went weird....

 

We were talking on the phone, and almost out of nowhere, she said that if she ever discovers I'm lying to her, that she has a big gun (she does have a nice Smith & Wesson, which she's had me shoot at the range). Mind you, I don't lie to her, but I asked her why the hell she would mention a gun in the context of a hypothetical lie. She said if she ever discovered I was a "charlatan," she'd feel justified in blowing my brains out. She did hasten to add that she has full confidence that I'm NOT a charlatan, so I have nothing to worry about.

 

I just couldn't let that go.... I thought at first she was just joking. I pressed her on it.... I asked her if she seriously believed that catching someone in a lie - any kind of lie, not a big one like cheating or something was justification for killing them. She said definitely she would feel justified, because killing someone in her home who lied to her would be a form of self-protection.

 

That's just too weird. Normal, healthy people don't even THINK about killing someone in response to lies. Leaving a relationship with them, absolutely. Shooting them in the head?

 

Am I overthinking this? I don't lie to her and never would, so it was a hypothetical discussion anyway. But it disturbed me. A LOT.

Edited March 30, 2014 by aviator423

[KRuss]

OMG, red flags are flying high all over the place. WHY would you want to work at anything this hard?

 

She is unstable, that is clear. I would run as fast as I could. Good luck to you.

[MidwestUSA]

Run. I didn't read all of your first post, don't need to.

 

This girl has an addictive personality; I guarantee she's doing more drugs (probably scrips) than she's admitting to. Throw in the fact that she owns a gun and has threatened to use it, get out, now! My ex husband actually HELD a loaded gun to someone's head once; had I known that, I never would have married him. Obviously. A threat is the same to me.

 

 

If you're up to it, read up on the symptoms of borderline personality disorder, and see if any of them fit.

 

 

Best of luck to you. I was divorced at 42, and started dipping into the pool again at 43. Met a guy (not thru OLD, BTW) just after I turned 50, and we were married just under a year later. You've got time, take it!

[aviator423]

What's scary is I came out of a bizarre marriage to a woman who very likely had borderline tendencies (or so our former marriage therapist told me). This new girl may be even more borderline! Which means when things are good, they're amazing (which is what kept me hooked too long). But when things go badly, you're either being accused of bugging the phones to spy on them (ex wife), or being told that you'll be target practice if you turn out to be a "charlatan."

 

I'm hearing everyone on here. I need to run away.

 

I also need to figure out why i keep feeling attracted to high-drama women....

[bluegreen]

Narcissistic Immature Insecure and I'll bet my stack of chocolates Borderline as well add to it Drama Queen and Passive Aggressive Leading into Dangerous Tendencies.

 

 

Sir you are lucky to still be Alive we hope you wanna stay alive to ?

[mortensorchid]

Can I get an AMEN men love crazy!

[oz-missy]

We were talking on the phone, and almost out of nowhere, she said that if she ever discovers I'm lying to her, that she has a big gun (she does have a nice Smith & Wesson, which she's had me shoot at the range). Mind you, I don't lie to her, but I asked her why the hell she would mention a gun in the context of a hypothetical lie. She said if she ever discovered I was a "charlatan," she'd feel justified in blowing my brains out. She did hasten to add that she has full confidence that I'm NOT a charlatan, so I have nothing to worry about.

 

Run. Away. Now.

 

You're already 300 miles away so putting distance between the both of you shouldn't be too difficult.

 

Threatening someone with a gun, even verbally is not on. Red flags are everywhere. So much red that if a bull was around it'd be charging for you head on right now.

 

You have a son to worry about. You do not need this level of crazy in your life. Even if she hasn't met your son, you don't need this in your life. You can't risk it. He is number one.

[aviator423]

Well, I did it. I broke up. I took the chicken's way out and sent her an e-mail.

 

Right before I sent the e-mail, a text came through on my phone from her. It said: "I've been ill all day thinking about our conversation this weekend. I am sad that you think I would ever hurt you. I never would...."

 

That's been the kind of stuff that's kept me hooked for so long. Just when I think things have gone too crazy, she shows just a glimmer of self-awareness. I'm feeling terrible right now. I know she isn't healthy, but I really did like her a lot. And I'm sure she's devastated right now.

 

Of course after a couple of minutes to think, I kept asking myself "If she'd never hurt me, then why the hell did she bring up the gun right in the middle of a conversation like that....and then continue to stick with her point even when I made it clear that I was not OK with where things were going?"

 

I've blocked her phone number and I'm actually scared to look at my phone right now, for fear that she'll have sent a pleading e-mail that might make me weaken my resolve.

 

I'm going to ask one more favor. I don't appreciate comments that say "Men love crazy." I know I have some issues and I'm trying to address my issues and get healthier. But comments like that are not helpful. I know I did what was probably necessary, but I know it's broken her heart and it's tearing me up. Sarcasm isn't helpful right now.

 

God, what a mess. I'm not sure I'll ever date again......

Edited April 1, 2014 by aviator423

[oz-missy]

God, what a mess. I'm not sure I'll ever date again......

 

Don't let one instance of a bad relationship turn you off dating for life. Maybe in future try and date someone closer to you then 300 miles away. I know with your work that it can be a bit all over the place in terms of when you are free, but having a LDR without that added burden is difficult enough.

 

I hope you stay strong post your email. Don't back down. You can't risk your safety or even more importantly the safety of your son. Whether it was an empty threat from her or not, it may not be (at this stage) physical but it is a form of emotional abuse.

 

Good luck!

[Canucklehead]

Well, after establishing some boundaries and sticking with them for a couple of weeks, things seemed to be getting much better. But last night, things went weird....

 

We were talking on the phone, and almost out of nowhere, she said that if she ever discovers I'm lying to her, that she has a big gun (she does have a nice Smith & Wesson, which she's had me shoot at the range). Mind you, I don't lie to her, but I asked her why the hell she would mention a gun in the context of a hypothetical lie. She said if she ever discovered I was a "charlatan," she'd feel justified in blowing my brains out. She did hasten to add that she has full confidence that I'm NOT a charlatan, so I have nothing to worry about.

 

I just couldn't let that go.... I thought at first she was just joking. I pressed her on it.... I asked her if she seriously believed that catching someone in a lie - any kind of lie, not a big one like cheating or something was justification for killing them. She said definitely she would feel justified, because killing someone in her home who lied to her would be a form of self-protection.

 

That's just too weird. Normal, healthy people don't even THINK about killing someone in response to lies. Leaving a relationship with them, absolutely. Shooting them in the head?

 

Am I overthinking this? I don't lie to her and never would, so it was a hypothetical discussion anyway. But it disturbed me. A LOT.

 

IMO your gut feeling has been accurate all along..... not only unsafe emotionally but physically as well.

 

This relationship is fraught with challenges but I think you know that there is never going to be the stability that you seek here....

 

Aviator, get out now!

[aviator423]

Don't let one instance of a bad relationship turn you off dating for life.

 

Well, to be honest, that comment I made about not dating again was just a TINY bit of overblown hyperbole. I'm sure I'll come back from this and be ready to date again.

 

The weird thing was, when things between us were good, they were VERY good. I sensed a deep connection. And yet, things could turn weird almost in a heartbeat.

 

And in case anyone is wondering, yes, I do recognize that I'm describing a relationship with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

I'm sad this morning. I miss the "good" side of our relationship. I know that the "good" side wasn't as good as I thought, since there was always weirdness lurking in the background. But we did have some good times and I'm missing that this morning.

 

But I'll be OK.

[aviator423]

I know I'm going to catch heat for this, but I didn’t stay as strong as I thought I was.....

 

I agreed to keep seeing her IF we went to see a counselor. So far, we've been to one session. Obviously, you can't tell the full story in one session. But the counselor did make a fouple of astute observations: She said my ex wife probably has borderline Personality Disorder and she told my girlfriend that she needs to understand my ex will always be trying to create drama. She also said that she could see that my girlfriend is very guarded and that scares me to death based on my history with troubled relationships. We left feeling more connected...

 

Which only lasted a week or so........

 

Here's where things get weird. Often, we'll be having what seems to be a great conversation and things will just slip off track.

 

The other night, I was talking to her on the phone, sharing something positive about my son. I was actually excited about what I was sharing. And she then asked me why I didn’t have more forthright conversations with my ex about our parenting expectations. I tried to carefully explain that you can't always communicate with a borderline person the way you would other people. She told me I should listen to her advice because she's better at dealing with difficult people than I am. I told her honestly that I was feeling a bit deflated. We ended the conversation soon thereafter.

 

The next couple of days have been a series of back and forth emails and texts that just seem to be pushing us both further away from each other. She sent me a text saying that she felt like she either needed to stifle her thoughts or else hurt my feelings. I replied that id prefer that she always speak her mind, and my feelings about anything she might say were for me to deal with. She replied that I was making everything about me and she felt as if she had no voice.

 

The more she accused me of being a narcissist, the more defensive I began to feel and the more I tried to explain myself. Which of course made things worse.......

 

I dont know what to think. Maybe I really am a selfish oaf.

 

My biggest problem is that I've never seen a good relationship modeled; my mom and dad divorced after 30 years of misery. And obviously my marriage didnt work out. So I sometimes struggle to know whether I'm being unrealistic, or selfish, or if I'm seeing indications of some real serious potential problems here.

 

Please, don't say "Men love crazy. " The truth is, this man doesn't always know the difference between crazy and just normal relational conflict.

 

Sigh