hotpotato Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) This is an age-old question. I have a number of male friends and I will admit to having had my fair share of "what if" moments with each of them but have never acted on them for whatever reasons. Does that or should that take away from the friendship I've built with them? Absolutely not. Does that mean we can't or shouldn't be friends? Hell no! As long as each person is a healthy heterosexual, there will always be the "what if" factor embedded in our psyche. Seems perfectly normal to me. Hell, I've had my share of "what if" moments with some of my girlfriends over the years if only out of pure curiosity. Would you question my friendship with them just because we're women? I think it has more to do with what you DO with those thoughts and/or feelings that makes the difference. I don't think it's fair to devalue ANY friendship regardless of the sex just because we might entertain some naughty thoughts every once in a while. We're sexual being after all Someone here is being honest The sexual element will most likely be there for at least one party. Personally, if I want the naughtiness I would just get an f buddy. I'm all for skipping the pleasantries As I said before elsewhere, part of the reason some male female friendships can thrive isbecause of mutual sexual attraction. Girls like me will have a hard to being platonic because when I say I want to be friends I mean just friends. If I need the sex and the drama there is always dating. I don't want a male friend lusting after me. In fact, the guys I would allow to get close to me were very unattractive. Edited March 19, 2014 by hotpotato
topaMAXX Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Bonobos are a lot closer to humans, and they are definitely not monogamous. A similar debate was had at my job. In response to this quote, one of my female friends said something along the lines of "Yes, we are closer to bonobos than many other animals, but we evolved away from them hundreds of thousands of years ago. There's a reason why humans rule the earth and bonobos don't". Smart girl. Most males are not monogamous. False. Our current society promotes promiscuity. Most people just do what everybody else does. This includes men. Yes, that's pretty much the only way. Or I could choose male friends I want to have sex with/or date. Otherwise it's a no go. I can't even be friends with guys who are 50,60, or even 70 without be propositioned. Trust me, not all guys proposition every girl. I certainly don't. I am extremely picky (and getting even more picky since I became voluntarily celibate). You would have to be pretty outstanding to get a proposition from me.
topaMAXX Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Well, cheetah mating and people mating is basically the same, we just veil it with love, marriage, and baby carriage. Male (insert species) are attracted to pretty much any female of childbearing age. This is what makes it difficult for people to be just friends. I'm a guy. I am absolutely NOT attracted to all women of child-bearing age. Words cannot express how wrong that statement is. If any woman here thinks that any male species is monogamous, go to sites that are all male...It's really eye opening! Most men will not even claim that they are monogamous. Men spend a lot of time talking about breasts, legs, butts, etc.it's difficult for men to turn this off just because he's a 'friend.' First of all, right now you're applying what you read from a few guys on an internet forum to all men. Pretty sure you would tell me off if I applied the same rationale to all women. Anyway, I used to do this too. However, that changed since I've chosen to be celibate and stopped masturbating. I don't think about sex nearly as much as I used to. Again, I think this is a function of our current society and the fact that we are literally bombarded with sex from every direction. I've had men be honest to me, and point out which women they wanted to f...It was almost every woman...IMO a lot who believe the guy friend is just a friend do not understand how attractive even the average woman is. If a man is hanging around a woman, he probably wants to f her. This is called "familiarity." Cheetah males do it, and human males do it. Actually this is worse than when guys say that all women are the same. At least we mean all HUMAN women. You are saying that every male of every species is the same. We are more evolved than animals. I have plenty of female friends that I don't want to "f". In fact, as I said in previous posts, sometimes they want to "f" me and I don't pick up on that because I only see them as a friend. If I am pursuing a girl, I am pursuing her for more than sex. Do I want sex from her? Yes. But that is absolutely not the primary reason that I'm pursuing her. And I promise....I am being 100% honest here (both with you and myself). I'm sure that I'm not the only guy out there like that.
hotpotato Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 A similar debate was had at my job. In response to this quote, one of my female friends said something along the lines of "Yes, we are closer to bonobos than many other animals, but we evolved away from them hundreds of thousands of years ago. There's a reason why humans rule the earth and bonobos don't".[/quote Smart girl. We might have bigger brains and better with our opposable digits, but we still have the same sexuality as a bonobo. We create social customs to help temper our biology. False. Still waiting to meet one that is. Away from most women, most men wont even claim to be monogamous. Our current society promotes promiscuity. Most people just do what everybody else does. This includes men. More like hormones! Men and women have different hormonal make ups and thus different sex drives. Once again, it's biology. I've been in situations where my hormones change, and it makes a huge difference. Trust me, not all guys proposition every girl. I certainly don't. I am extremely picky (and getting even more picky since I became voluntarily celibate). You would have to be pretty outstanding to get a proposition from me. Most men aren't going to proposition every single girl they see (though I've seen men try ), that takes an enormous amount of energy. That doesnt change the fact that a woman need only be average (sometimes not even that) to be considered doable by most men. I'm a guy. I am absolutely NOT attracted to all women of child-bearing age. Words cannot express how wrong that statement is. There are many who do. Sure, guys may prefer Angelina Jolie, but that standards will quickly drop. Not even so much that, even an unattractive woman has a sexy feminine softness to her. First of all, right now you're applying what you read from a few guys on an internet forum to all men. Pretty sure you would tell me off if I applied the same rationale to all women. Please read my posts again. I spend a lot of time with men IRL, I read about them, plus read they write about how they feel. I can understand why people dont like to talk about what men write online. It's very embarassing. People can be very honest about how they feel over the internet and in books or with a woman with whom they feel comfortable. Anyway, I used to do this too. However, that changed since I've chosen to be celibate and stopped masturbating. I don't think about sex nearly as much as I used to. Again, I think this is a function of our current society and the fact that we are literally bombarded with sex from every direction. Celibate and stopped masturbating. You are an outlier and not a representative of the general male population. Actually this is worse than when guys say that all women are the same. At least we mean all HUMAN women. You are saying that every male of every species is the same. When it comes to sex, it's really not a big difference. Animal mating in general is not that different from humans. For example, many in the female species are hypergamous and find a few males attractive, whilst the males find most females attractive. We are more evolved than animals. I have plenty of female friends that I don't want to "f". In fact, as I said in previous posts, sometimes they want to "f" me and I don't pick up on that because I only see them as a friend. We are better in that we try to use social customs like marriage and romance to temper ourselves, but that's where it end as far as sex. If I am pursuing a girl, I am pursuing her for more than sex. Do I want sex from her? Yes. But that is absolutely not the primary reason that I'm pursuing her. OK... And I promise....I am being 100% honest here (both with you and myself). I'm sure that I'm not the only guy out there like that. You're an outlier.
jba10582 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 It happens all the time, whether its within evidence reach of your world or not.
hotpotato Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 It happens all the time, whether its within evidence reach of your world or not. I'm sure men and women can be friendly and call themselves friends. As far as being just friends, that will be a resounding no most of the time. Usually the friendship has sexual or romantic undertones from at least one party. 1
Shepp Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 There go most man/woman friendships Probably, yeah, but your left with the only genuine friendships and these are sustainable independent of the genders involved. In any other circumstance yeah, its would be hard for the friendship not to hit problems But I'm not just talking about that. I think we have a failure to communicate! It's easy for one party to fall in love/lust even if things start off platonic. Things get sexual. People can experience the same relationship in different ways. Of course, it can happen - like I say I was friends with my girlfriend first, but it doesn't mean it happens in every friendship you hold - theres potential, but everything you do has potential, theres potential to win the lottery or get struck by lightning. How come I can't base what I say on people I know? Oh im not saying your not, im saying.....say theres a well known stat that the majority of the people in the world are Irish. It may well be true, but within the people I now it is a small minority that's Irish - so to me, and the people I know, its not the norm, even if the stats say otherwise.
jba10582 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I'm sure men and women can be friendly and call themselves friends. As far as being just friends, that will be a resounding no most of the time. Usually the friendship has sexual or romantic undertones from at least one party. Well as happens in real life groups hang out and relationships don't always happen although they can develop over time and probably into a pretty good relationship because you get to know them pretty well, but doesn't HAVE to happen. What you said about biology is probably most accurate as in... If female of decent attractivenss and I were forced on a desert island for a while biology would eventually take over if THAT is what you mean, and probably not just for sexual/romantic undertones, but for basic survial purposes as well...I can't imagine anything more natural anyway. Other than small tribal like society as it actually allows for so MANY different kinds of social interactions that its hard for friendships ONLY not to develop either. 1
hotpotato Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Well as happens in real life groups hang out and relationships don't always happen although they can develop over time and probably into a pretty good relationship because you get to know them pretty well, but doesn't HAVE to happen. What you said about biology is probably most accurate as in... If female of decent attractivenss and I were forced on a desert island for a while biology would eventually take over if THAT is what you mean, and probably not just for sexual/romantic undertones, but for basic survial purposes as well...I can't imagine anything more natural anyway. Other than small tribal like society as it actually allows for so MANY different kinds of social interactions that its hard for friendships ONLY not to develop either. No, I meant exactly what I said. I dont understand the controversy. It really doesnt take much for a man to be attracted to a woman. Is the problem that I pointed it out?
hotpotato Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Probably, yeah, but your left with the only genuine friendships and these are sustainable independent of the genders involved. In any other circumstance yeah, its would be hard for the friendship not to hit problems Sustainable and uncommon... Of course, it can happen - like I say I was friends with my girlfriend first, but it doesn't mean it happens in every friendship you hold - theres potential, but everything you do has potential, theres potential to win the lottery or get struck by lightning. It's harder to develop a relationship that sexual attraction. Maybe you did get lucky dating her. However, it's very easy to develop lust. Oh im not saying your not, im saying.....say theres a well known stat that the majority of the people in the world are Irish. It may well be true, but within the people I now it is a small minority that's Irish - so to me, and the people I know, its not the norm, even if the stats say otherwise. More Irish than Chinese? That stat would be obviously untrue! Add to that I actually date men, and I assure you, it really doesn't take much to turn one on. That's a big issue with trying to be friends with one. I might give him a hug, then he imagines I want to get sexual. Or he sees me in my work out gear, and that will cause problems.
jba10582 Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 something that is not so logical...and I don't know how many signals or impulses the brain sends out or ALL the inner workings of what goes on in the intelligent machine that is the human body, but, I'll trust, it will do what it needs to do in order to function or go see a doctor. ON your end, if you can make guys feel that level of attraction/arousal on command, then that is a value skill to have if you want to find potential suitors and maybe an ego boost, a whole lot of confidence and fries to go with it. In any case, if there comes times going forward where I realize I suppress the cave monkey primal urges because whilst I am enjoying the company of another human being of opposite gender, I'll try and not forget.
hotpotato Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 something that is not so logical...and I don't know how many signals or impulses the brain sends out or ALL the inner workings of what goes on in the intelligent machine that is the human body, but, I'll trust, it will do what it needs to do in order to function or go see a doctor. ON your end, if you can make guys feel that level of attraction/arousal on command, then that is a value skill to have if you want to find potential suitors and maybe an ego boost, a whole lot of confidence and fries to go with it. In any case, if there comes times going forward where I realize I suppress the cave monkey primal urges because whilst I am enjoying the company of another human being of opposite gender, I'll try and not forget. People become attracted to each other, it's really not complicated. i doubt I'm working any kind of hocus pocus on them. Honestly, if it hadn't been me, it would have been someone else. Anyway, if i wanted suitors I would just get them. I dont believe in friendship bs. I dont need orbiters for an ego boost.
jba10582 Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I guess if that works out in a healthy dynamic for you, keep doing what works. That is what makes experiences unique. I always enjoyed it when my SO was able to get along with my male friends and vice versa and I was able to get along with my male friend's SO, their sisters ect...
hotpotato Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I guess if that works out in a healthy dynamic for you, keep doing what works. That is what makes experiences unique. I always enjoyed it when my SO was able to get along with my male friends and vice versa and I was able to get along with my male friend's SO, their sisters ect... LOL it's not that I can't get along with them, I get along with them too well. I have a lot of male interests, so it's not hard for me to get along with men.
SongOfMySelf Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 I'm deeply attracted to a variation of the female species. Natural blondes with blue/green eyes. I've lost all attraction to women of dark hair/red hair etc, and I avoid even looking at natural blondes, so it is rather easy for me to be a friend to the same women I've known since high school. Just avoid the women you are attracted to, don't befriend them, only befriend women you consider to be like ''men'' and you will do fine.
joystickd Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I myself have a no female friends unless they are lesbian rule for myself. No ladies it's not because I'm attracted to them but I had a bad experience with a friend that left a mark on me. She was someone I would have never noticed until she initiated it. After that I saw it as a grey area of manipulation. That is not saying men and women can't be friends, but it takes a certain level of maturity on both sides. Plus lesbian will fix you up with women lol
mainejack Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 I've had decades of experience with platonic (no sex) friendships of every sort that ran the gamut from "I wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole" to "I'd be on and off her so fast I'd have to tell her what I did". The best generalization I've seen so far is by hotpotato: "I'm sure men and women can be friendly and call themselves friends. As far as being just friends, that will be a resounding no most of the time. Usually the friendship has sexual or romantic undertones from at least one party."
Giggle Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 It is a silly debate. It can happen. It can also go wrong. But then that can happen between the same sex too. My bff and I have been friends for 8 years, in the last few.. it has become an effort to keep my hands to myself. And i've never considered myself actually into girls we've discussed it.. Decided it would be a bad idea.. Are we not still friends even though there is a sexual tension?
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