Who pays and for how long?

[normal person]

 

Anyway, Women can always fit the bill. Especially if its like the 3rd or 4th time around and they know that youre not a millionaire. You should just ask them if they want to split it.

I agree with you in theory that the woman always "can" pay, but there's a big problem, because whether or not she's financially able oftentimes isn't the issue. The issue is that she doesn't pay despite being able to and expects the guy to. If the guy doesn't pay he runs the risk of coming off in a variety of unflattering ways. Yes, it's unfair, but it's the way things are. Let's face it, if you straight up have to ask a girl to pay half, she's likely not going to take it well. If you like her enough to pay $150 for dinner, the $75 you save by asking her to pay half is not worth the dent to your image you get by asking her to pay.

 

If she wasn't expecting you to pay the whole thing, she would have offered to pay half.

And it still adds up, even if you are a millionaire.

 

I personally dont think its a big deal.

 

The girl probably does though, and her opinion is really the only one the situation concerns. As men our complaint is really irrelevant.

 

In my humble opinion, women should always at least ask to pay or leave a tip. So as a man to another man, dont think its your duty

 

Well in a perfect world, yeah. The reason these "Why do I have to pay?" threads by guys pop up endlessly is because women don't always offer to pay or leave a tip. They think it's a man's duty and they're usually the one who the guy is trying to win over. If a guy asks a girl out, she knows he likes her, so she has nothing to gain by offering to pay. She just loses money.

 

I've said this many times before, but if you're a guy living in America (not sure of the culture in other countries), just suck it up and expect to pay for everything. Arguing it is a battle you're never going to win and you just make yourself look worse in her eyes even if you're right that it isn't fair. If she sincerely offers to pay, she's great (just be wary of the girls who offer to pay and get mad that you accept).

 

What's interesting about these threads is that there's always a big contingent of girls who chime and say "I always split it / I always pay for X / He shouldn't have to pay the whole thing" but there are rarely any women coming in here saying "a man should have to pay 100% of everything because..." Obviously they're out there. Do they selectively not respond to these threads? I'd honestly like to hear their thoughts so it's not the same recycled conversation over and over again.

Edited March 13, 2014 by normal person

[Weezy1973]

I'm a guy and I pay for every date - always have and always will. It's how I was raised. That being said, if the woman I was with expected me to pay and felt that's part of being a "real man" she'd be packing her bags and heading to Dumpsville...

[Copelandsanity]

I agree with you in theory that the woman always "can" pay, but there's a big problem, because whether or not she's financially able oftentimes isn't the issue. The issue is that she doesn't pay despite being able to and expects the guy to. If the guy doesn't pay he runs the risk of coming off in a variety of unflattering ways. Yes, it's unfair, but it's the way things are. Let's face it, if you straight up have to ask a girl to pay half, she's likely not going to take it well. If you like her enough to pay $150 for dinner, the $75 you save by asking her to pay half is not worth the dent to your image you get by asking her to pay.

 

If she wasn't expecting you to pay the whole thing, she would have offered to pay half.

And it still adds up, even if you are a millionaire.

 

 

 

The girl probably does though, and her opinion is really the only one the situation concerns. As men our complaint is really irrelevant.

 

 

 

Well in a perfect world, yeah. The reason these "Why do I have to pay?" threads by guys pop up endlessly is because women don't always offer to pay or leave a tip. They think it's a man's duty and they're usually the one who the guy is trying to win over. If a guy asks a girl out, she knows he likes her, so she has nothing to gain by offering to pay. She just loses money.

 

I've said this many times before, but if you're a guy living in America (not sure of the culture in other countries), just suck it up and expect to pay for everything. Arguing it is a battle you're never going to win and you just make yourself look worse in her eyes even if you're right that it isn't fair. If she sincerely offers to pay, she's great (just be wary of the girls who offer to pay and get mad that you accept).

 

What's interesting about these threads is that there's always a big contingent of girls who chime and say "I always split it / I always pay for X / He shouldn't have to pay the whole thing" but I there are rarely any women coming in here saying "a man should have to pay 100% of everything because..." Obviously they're out there. Do they selectively not respond to these threads? I'd honestly like to hear their thoughts so it's not the same recycled conversation over and over again.

 

I live where you are, so I understand the situation. I spend at least $100 on 1st dates, and for other dates early on. What I've done is make the choice to look for particular qualities in a potential partner early on - humble, generous, thoughtful, empathetic, selfless - and only date or continue to date women who show them. It is a baseline standard for me that I do not budge on. It's not about keeping tabs on who paid what and how much; I focus on the actions made, the gestures, and their meaning behind them. A woman that offers to pay as a test of your manhood isn't someone worth continuing to date; an offer like that should be made because she is naturally a generous person.

[normal person]

Dang. Usually I do what another poster suggested, they pay for a few things, I pay for a few things. That usually makes everyone happy at the end, I dig paying my part and giving them something and usually they do too.

 

But what the balls are you doing that costs $130 a date? I get you live coastal but seriously? Are you paying her hourly? Buying her a puppy each time? Complementary stipend towards a boob job? Listen, there's this super awesome place called a grocery store, and they sell like...veggies and meat and shlt, and you can actually cook this stuff at home, in a pan, and have like...a ton of food. And I know this sounds crazy but...you could invite that ass over and have her help out. Toss a salad or two. Who knows, things get crazy when you're not shelling out a car payment each date.

 

Dang OP. You crazy.

 

OP is pretty normal. I'm not sure where you're from, but the cost of living in many areas like New York, Boston, Connecticut, New Jersey, etc is much higher than it is further west. Having ~a million dollars (or the earning power) means you're roughly on par with other people. Your monthly rent will be more than a mortgage payment elsewhere and taking a girl out to any place worthwhile will be $100 minimum.

Edited March 13, 2014 by normal person

[Ruby Slippers]

I don't understand why men spend $100+ on early dates. There are TONS of great restaurants in any city where you can have an amazing meal with drinks for $50 or less.

 

If I were a guy, there's no way I would spend that kind of money on a woman I don't even know, no matter how much money I made.

 

If she likes you, she'll have fun even if you take her to a $5 taco joint.

[pteromom]

I always laugh at the responses to threads on this subject.

 

Look, OP, as you can see, people are divided on this issue. Some women wouldn't ALLOW a guy to pay more than 50/50. Some will make an effort to pay in, but wouldn't mind if the guy said "No, I insist", and some equate the man paying to chivalry.

 

So a woman you ask out could have any of these attitudes. And wanting a man to pay does NOT automatically equal "gold digger,user".

 

For the first date, stick to coffee or an after work drink. Something short and inexpensive so you can just find out if you have chemistry and want to get to know each other more.

 

For the second date, go into it expecting to pay. When it comes time to get the check, she'll either offer to contribute or not. If she does, great. If she doesn't, don't let that alone stop you from going out again, since technically this is the real "first" date.

 

For the third date, plan something inexpensive. Hanging out on the beach, the park, the zoo, etc. If she is a woman who wants to go halfsies with you, you should see that on this date. She'll buy her own snowcone/drink/coffee, etc. rather than waiting for you to offer.

 

By this time, you should also know her well enough to have a conversation about it. Let her know that it means a lot to you when a woman chips in for dates.

 

Then, go from there. If she is a woman who is offended when the man doesn't treat, you will have to weigh your interest in her against the cost of dates.

[Copelandsanity]

I don't understand why men spend $100+ on early dates. There are TONS of great restaurants in any city where you can have an amazing meal with drinks for $50 or less.

 

If I were a guy, there's no way I would spend that kind of money on a woman I don't even know, no matter how much money I made.

 

If she likes you, she'll have fun even if you take her to a $5 taco joint.

 

It's easier said than done. There is no such thing as a $5 taco joint, lol. Even a food truck or Chipotle will end up being double that. I would say that the average cost of going to a restaurant is around $25-$30/person - take into account 30% tax & gratuity - but without drinks. Once you add drinks and another activity to the date - even if it's something simple like pool - you're pretty much near or at $100+.

[nomadic_butterfly]

I'm a guy and I pay for every date - always have and always will. It's how I was raised. That being said, if the woman I was with expected me to pay and felt that's part of being a "real man" she'd be packing her bags and heading to Dumpsville...

 

Precisely! It's not about being ungrateful or acting like you are entitled. Appreciation, respect, showing YOU kind gestures, cooking for you, etc. shows she doesn't think her only responsibility is to sit and look pretty. Nothing worse than an unappreciative person.

Edited March 13, 2014 by nomadic_butterfly

[normal person]

I don't understand why men spend $100+ on early dates. There are TONS of great restaurants in any city where you can have an amazing meal with drinks for $50 or less.

 

Can you name some of the "tons" in Manhattan? I'd be interested for sure. I can't pay less than $70 for two when I'm in Brooklyn.

 

If I were a guy, there's no way I would spend that kind of money on a woman I don't even know, no matter how much money I made.

 

Easy for you to say. If you were a guy, you'd be incredibly lonely.

As if it wasn't bad enough that a large number of women will decry a guy for not splurging for her, there are now some who think he's stupid to pay too much regardless of income? What's the "right" amount of money to pay then? You make it practically lose-lose. Whether you like to admit or not, a lot of girls will gauge a guy based on where he takes them and how much he spends (also what shoes he wears). This is first time I'm seeing "overpayment" as a strike against, especially when it's next to impossible to spend less than $100 on a night out here. Perhaps the reason two thirds of the girls I go out with never even say "thanks" is because I spent too much on them and not because they just expected it from me. All coming into focus now.

 

It sounds so easy to just say "I'd never do that" but if the shoe really was on the other foot you'd have to change your tune real quick once you realize that if you don't put in a baseline effort/investment into early dates, a girl will drop you real quick. It's like a cover charge to get in the door of a club. If you can't show that you're willing to put in an effort for her/don't have the money to do so, you're not worth letting in.

 

If she likes you, she'll have fun even if you take her to a $5 taco joint.

 

In a perfect world, yes. But in reality will she like you if you take her to a $5 taco joint? Even if you make $300K/year in a city full of 5 star restaurants? You're kind of putting the cart before the horse. As a guy, women expect you to put in effort with your wallet. Your statement is like me saying to a girl "if he likes you, he won't care that you showed up to the restaurant without makeup, wearing an old t shirt with ripped jeans and sneakers. Or that you gained 20 lbs since the last time he saw you." That's a nice fairy tale and maybe it's true for you and a few others out there, but it's not the reality of the world. That's the reason why this thread exists. Even nice, sensible people make judgements and have initial expectations. You need to first present yourself in such a fashion that she likes. That's tough to do with Taco Bell.

[Ruby Slippers]

Can you name some of the "tons" in Manhattan? I'd be interested for sure. I can't pay less than $70 for two when I'm in Brooklyn.

I visit a friend in New York at least once a year. We do the slightest bit of research and often find the most amazing restaurants for $5-10/plate, with drinks for $5. $10 + $10 + $10 for 2 drinks = $30 + tax & tip = $40

 

Whether you like to admit or not, a lot of girls will gauge a guy based on where he takes them and how much he spends (also what shoes he wears).

Those women are materialistic and not the kind of women I would ever be interested in. I'll grant you that it's harder and harder to find quality people who aren't totally brainwashed by our consumer culture, but we are out there.

 

This is first time I'm seeing "overpayment" as a strike against, especially when it's next to impossible to spend less than $100 on a night out here. Perhaps the reason two thirds of the girls I go out with never even say "thanks" is because I spent too much on them and not because they just expected it from me. All coming into focus now.

It's not a strike against you - I just think men who drop that kind of money on women they don't even know are SUCKERS. When a guy drops a lot of money on dates with me before he even knows me, I wonder what he's trying to compensate for. I'd much rather keep the dates modest so we can gauge our compatibility, not so he can impress me with how much money he can drop.

 

My last boyfriend didn't take me to fancy restaurants until we were exclusive and discussing long-term plans. And I preferred it that way. All of our early dates were $50 or less, in the big city of Chicago, and we had a blast every time.

[kaylan]

^Spot on. Also, Yelp is a good website for finding nice affordable places. I dunno where people get this misconception that NYC is unbearably expensive. Theres something for everyone there.

Women shell out A LOT of money for dates. They get a new outfit, get their hair and nails done, get new shoes. The list goes on and on. So just because she's not also offering to pay for a dinner that you asked her out on doesn't mean anything she's probably spent twice that!

 

What happened to the days of a man being a man? Whoever said men are the new women are right. Always complaining that they want to be the woman nowadays. There was a time a man would be embarrassed if he sat at dinner and his lady pulled out cash to pay.

 

Nothing wrong if a woman wants to pay half or even the whole thing but if you have some give and take like she buys the tickets to the play or a big events. He can pay dinner. As the relationship progresses you both start chipping in in random things and not keeping tabs.

Its 2014. Men spend money on clothing and shoes...especially on very nice fancier dates. Guess what, shirts, slacks, shoes, jeans, watches, cologne, and getting my dreads put in a nice style (if I decide not to do it myself) ALL cost money.

 

Women need to stop with this BS excuse.

 

And btw, if you want a "man to be a man"...than I can expect a woman to be a woman in the same vein. That means earning 1/4 of my salary, having less social rights, and being expected to cook, clean, and child rear like I say. With the women earning even less cash, theres more money for us men to make, and then Ill be more then glad to foot bills 100% all the time. But times arent like that anymore and many men make less than their female peers.

 

So get real.

Please! Exactly, and during all those times men never belly ached and cried over his date paying for him to eat! What happened?

Women wanted to be treated like equal adults. Thats what happened. Cant pick and choose here.

Edited March 13, 2014 by kaylan

[Kingston100]

I agree that there is no right or wrong answer here. Some men want to pay for everything, some women want to be treated every time. Some couples split things up pretty casually, and some get out calculators at the table.

 

My boyfriend and I have some pretty loose unspoken rules. We split things pretty evenly I would say, but I don't think anyone is keeping score.

 

If we go out for dinner or drinks with his friends, he pays. If we go out with my friends, I pay. If we are meeting for lunch we tend to alternate. If it is dinner and movie one will get the meal and the other the tickets. If it is a Friday night and he really wants to try a certain restaurant then he picks up the tab for it. If I suggest a place, then I do. It is all pretty give and take.

 

We have gotten so used to it now that we have it down fairly well. When we are getting ringed up at a coffee joint we will both reach for our wallets, but it is always the person who's turn it is who "wins" the fight. Not that it is much of a fight at all.

 

I personally wouldn't want to date a guy who insisted on paying all the time. I would feel like I was being bought, or that we weren't equal. Then again, if I were seeing someone who wanted to split everything down to the penny (although we don't have pennies anymore in Canada) that would be insulting too.

 

But that is just me.

 

 

 

I will so though that when we were first dating (like the first few weeks) he did pay more often than I did. He would ask me out and he would pick the restaurants or activities. I didn't want to insist on paying because maybe it suggested that I didn't think he could afford it? I don't know. It is all very tricky in the beginning. Sometimes men want to impress you and you shouldn't take that away from them. I can kill my own spiders, but I'll ask him to do it because I know it makes him feel important

[normal person]

I visit a friend in New York at least once a year. We do the slightest bit of research and often find the most amazing restaurants for $5-10/plate, with drinks for $5. $10 + $10 + $10 for 2 drinks = $30 + tax & tip = $40

 

Your friends don't have expectations from you and won't judge you. Girls like decor, ambience, etc. Even when I tell a girl I don't know her neighborhood too well and she can suggest a place, she inevitably picks the dimly lit, fashionably-rustically furnished place with the $23-40 entrees. I don't have an issue paying. A lot of times, girls might have issue going somewhere they don't like or isn't up to par for a first impression. I believe you when you say you don't have an issue with it, but a lot of these girls do. You only get to make one first impression and you don't want to gamble and run the risk of being seen as "cheap," as many will be quick to label.

 

Those women are materialistic and not the kind of women I would ever be interested in. I'll grant you that it's harder and harder to find quality people who aren't totally brainwashed by our consumer culture, but we are out there.

I know they're out there but you still need to buy a ticket to get in. I was having this discussion with a girl I'm dating. After a few nice restaurants we laughed and said "Ok, now we can go to Applebees." Keep in mind that expecting effort is not equal to materialism. I'm very picky about who I go out with and even some of the most well-mannered, refined, accomplished women don't ever offer up money, reach for the check, or even say "thank you." Ivy league grads. Engineers. Broadway actresses. It's usually the same tune. I'm not mad about it, I know why they do it. But expecting your average NYC girl to give you the same consideration for a $15 dinner that she would for a $40 is just being unrealistic.

 

It's not a strike against you - I just think men who drop that kind of money on women they don't even know are SUCKERS. When a guy drops a lot of money on dates with me before he even knows me, I wonder what he's trying to compensate for. I'd much rather keep the dates modest so we can gauge our compatibility, not so he can impress me with how much money he can drop.

 

You mean to say they're suckers if they don't conform to your notions of finding impossibly cheap places to go eat where you won't judge or expect anything from them. You're entitled to your opinions, but I think you're way off base because most women don't share your mentality. I've heard scores of women worry a guy was too cheap. You're the first I've heard say "He spent $100 on me? What an idiot!" First of all, not to sound like a douche, but $100 is a normal night out here for people with typical expectations. That's the baseline -- the other guy from NYC who posted can corroborate.

 

You're jumping to conclusions -- I never try to "impress" people with my money. I've got mountains more of it than an average person, let alone an average 27 old, but I've found that many people who know about my financial situation (a lot of girls included) are resentful of it rather than impressed. I spend more effort trying to blend in with everyone else than I do a lot of other things. I'm more frugal than friends of mine who are thousands in debt but I realize that taking a girl out for a $20 meal is just going to be fruitless (figuratively).

 

When I make a baseline dinner purchase, it's to avoid the risk of her thinking negatively about me, not to try and impress her. If she wasn't impressed with me somehow prior, she wouldn't be there to begin with. A nice dinner is a safe hedge against whatever opinion she'd form if I took her to Taco Bell.

Edited March 13, 2014 by normal person

[HappyLove]

Your friends don't have expectations from you and won't judge you. Girls like decor, ambience, etc. Even when I tell a girl I don't know her neighborhood too well and she can suggest a place, she inevitably picks the dimly lit, fashionably-rustically furnished place with the $23-40 entrees. I don't have an issue paying. A lot of times, girls might have issue going somewhere they don't like or isn't up to par for a first impression. I believe you when you say you don't have an issue with it, but a lot of these girls do. You only get to make one first impression and you don't want to gamble and run the risk of being seen as "cheap," as many will be quick to label.

 

 

I know they're out there but you still need to buy a ticket to get in. I was having this discussion with a girl I'm dating. After a few nice restaurants we laughed and said "Ok, now we can go to Applebees." Keep in mind that expecting effort is not equal to materialism. I'm very picky about who I go out with and even some of the most well-mannered, refined, accomplished women don't ever offer up money, reach for the check, or even say "thank you." Ivy league grads. Engineers. Broadway actresses. It's usually the same tune. I'm not mad about it, I know why they do it. But expecting your average NYC girl to give you the same consideration for a $15 dinner that she would for a $40 is just being unrealistic.

 

 

 

You mean to say they're suckers if they don't conform to your notions of finding impossibly cheap places to go eat where you won't judge or expect anything from them. You're entitled to your opinions, but I think you're way off base because most women don't share your mentality. I've heard scores of women worry a guy was too cheap. You're the first I've heard say "He spent $100 on me? What an idiot!" First of all, not to sound like a douche, but $100 is a normal night out here for people with typical expectations. That's the baseline -- the other guy from NYC who posted can corroborate.

 

You're jumping to conclusions -- I never try to "impress" people with my money. I've got mountains more of it than an average person, let alone an average 27 old, but I've found that many people who know about my financial situation (a lot of girls included) are resentful of it rather than impressed. I spend more effort trying to blend in with everyone else than I do a lot of other things. I'm more frugal than friends of mine who are thousands in debt but I realize that taking a girl out for a $20 meal is just going to be fruitless (figuratively).

 

When I make a baseline dinner purchase, it's to avoid the risk of her thinking negatively about me, not to try and impress her. If she wasn't impressed with me somehow prior, she wouldn't be there to begin with. A nice dinner is a safe hedge against whatever opinion she'd form if I took her to Taco Bell.

 

BRAVO! I think you're one of the few men who gets it!

 

Of course she's already somewhat impressed if she's out to dinner with you.

"Keep in mind that expecting effort is not equal to materialism. "

 

Exactly! If you ask me on a date, have me get dressed up and take me to Taco Bell, NO I would not be impressed one bit.

 

She won't pay for your food so she's the worst? What about her other qualities would she really never ever chip in? Most women give a lot in a relationship. I find this hard to believe. And I'm sure later on she would even pick up the tab but what happened to men courting a woman? The men want to be courted now!

 

It's the bitter men who want to play tit for tat who want to be cheap and have a woman go half then cry because she won't pay for a grown man to eat. By all means take your date to Taco Bell she'd have to be beyond desperate to keep dating you.

 

Funny how it's always the broke men with no gold to dig who are ready to call women "gold diggers". You're just cheap and bitter with no shame.

Edited March 13, 2014 by HappyLove

[avoforastig]

I'm impressed how much this stirred the pot. My main point is a date that intends to be short and sweet can get long and expensive without going to fancy places,. This can certainly be true on a weekend night and things go well. I live around Washington, D.C. I only date other professionals. The women usually are highly educated and make the same amount or more money than I do. The majority of the women make a full-fledged effort to pay some of the time or split bills. I have a lot of student debt and rent is insane.

 

I frequent dive bars and modest restaurants, but even there beers can be $6-7. 3 drinks each = $36-42 plus 10% tax, 20% tip and easily $50. Mix drinks would be easily $9-12. Modest restaurant at least $20 a plate + 1-2 drinks $12 + 30% tax/tip x 2 = $83, add in a taxi at $10. It's easy to see how drinks and dinner get expensive for two. For one on the other hand, $65-70 is actually very easily managed.

 

I just think it's a bit rude for someone to not offer, even if it's an empty gesture. One date I have no problem footing the bill. Other than that, I think it's a bit ridiculous.

 

How can I bring this up indirectly? Should I just recommend dive places to hang out?

[d0nnivain]

I'm impressed how much this stirred the pot. My main point is a date that intends to be short and sweet can get long and expensive without going to fancy places,. This can certainly be true on a weekend night and things go well. I live around Washington, D.C. I only date other professionals. The women usually are highly educated and make the same amount or more money than I do. The majority of the women make a full-fledged effort to pay some of the time or split bills. I have a lot of student debt and rent is insane.

 

I just think it's a bit rude for someone to not offer, even if it's an empty gesture. One date I have no problem footing the bill. Other than that, I think it's a bit ridiculous.

 

How can I bring this up indirectly? Should I just recommend dive places to hang out?

 

 

 

I wouldn't always recommend dives. Who wants to go to a dive when you are still in your suit from work?

 

Keep dating the ones who offer to pay. Stop dating the ones who don't or if you really like her say something like "I'll get this one; next time is on you." A well educated professional woman should be OK with that. She has to have enough brains to know dating in the DC metro area ain't cheap 'cause she lives there too.

[Mr.Mango]

I wouldn't always recommend dives. Who wants to go to a dive when you are still in your suit from work?

 

Keep dating the ones who offer to pay. Stop dating the ones who don't or if you really like her say something like "I'll get this one; next time is on you." A well educated professional woman should be OK with that. She has to have enough brains to know dating in the DC metro area ain't cheap 'cause she lives there too.

 

Yeah I was about to say, why isn't the overall suggestion to just keep things realistic? It's not like poorer people are ousted from dating because they can't afford some made-up cost for a potential relationship.

 

d0nnivain nailed it on the head here though.

[Ruby Slippers]

When I make a baseline dinner purchase, it's to avoid the risk of her thinking negatively about me, not to try and impress her.

If a woman thinks negatively about you because you spent less on dinner, I think that's a woman not worth having a relationship with.

 

But it's obvious that you and I live in different worlds, and you're only interested in the women who expect a $100+ dinner.

 

My comments were directed at men who complain about dating expenses. Men have a choice to date women with a high price tag, or broaden their horizons and date different women.

[Copelandsanity]

30% tax and gratuity? ¿Que?

 

And you're still discounting the idea of just doing something simple for the first few dates, or just hanging out. Obviously it depends on the kind of chick OP is after, but even with a higher cost of living I can't imagine everything you do has to get up to $100.

 

The sales tax is 9% and standard gratuity is 20%.

 

$100 is for 2 people, so it's $50 for a single person. I'm a frugal person, and even I recognize that's the standard price for a fun night out in the city.

[Imported]

OP, you should foot the bill for three dates and see where you stand on the third outing. By the second date, third at most she should have made an honest attempt to pay for the date herself or you should be having sex with her or at least given a good blowjob servicing. If she holds up her end of the unspoken agreement ( men always pay for dates, women give blowjobs...) and you want to continue with her, then do so with the full expectation that when you pay for a date, you get sex.

 

If she doesn't have sex with you or try to share cost, then cut your loses at three dates and move on. There is a better woman out there for you that will either take you seriously and not mooch off you like you're a fool or give you good blowjobs in return for allowing her to mooch off you.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Imported

[Succession]

I visit a friend in New York at least once a year. We do the slightest bit of research and often find the most amazing restaurants for $5-10/plate, with drinks for $5. $10 + $10 + $10 for 2 drinks = $30 + tax & tip = $40

 

He very pointedly asked you for a name. It would have greatly furthered your argument had you responded with one.

 

My rule for dates is that the person who asks for the date pays, but also chooses the activity. It does look bad if you split a bill, but how many women would lose interest if you suggest ice cream and a walk? Or a picnic?

[normal person]

If a woman thinks negatively about you because you spent less on dinner, I think that's a woman not worth having a relationship with.

 

Perhaps not "negatively" but certainly less than desired. If I lived by that maxim, it'd preclude me from most women in a 100 mile radius.

 

Going to Taco Bell isn't going to help my image and going somewhere nice isn't going to hurt my image. So I go for the option that will most likely yield the best possible outcome. Sometimes women don't care where we go. But it's incredibly hard to tell until after the fact. You can't risk it the first time. I'm sure you're an outlier but you've got to realize most women will notice where you take them and attach some assessment to you based on it.

 

But it's obvious that you and I live in different worlds, and you're only interested in the women who expect a $100+ dinner.

 

I don't think you really read my post. I'm interested in women I'm interested in, the amount I spend on her has nothing to do with that. My point is that she's much less likely to give me the consideration if I don't buck up and go for the decent restaurant at the beginning. It's like Pascal's Wager for dating. I have everything to lose by taking her to Taco Bell and have her thinking I'm cheap, and I don't stand to lose anything by taking her somewhere nicer, so why wouldn't I? The money isn't important. It's purely risk-avoidance.

 

My comments were directed at men who complain about dating expenses. Men have a choice to date women with a high price tag, or broaden their horizons and date different women.

 

I agree with you. But like a lot of what you've already posted, it's is much easier said than done. Women hold a lot of the cards in this game, some guys are just trying to help themselves or even out the playing field.

[avoforastig]

He very pointedly asked you for a name. It would have greatly furthered your argument had you responded with one.

 

My rule for dates is that the person who asks for the date pays, but also chooses the activity. It does look bad if you split a bill, but how many women would lose interest if you suggest ice cream and a walk? Or a picnic?

 

I don't have any problem for paying for one or two dates with no offer. However, these were much longer dates than normal involving 8 or 9 significant financial transactions, so no offer seems a little annoying. Thinking back, over the past year, I don't recall any other dates not at least making an offer, maybe she is just not up to speed on the dating lingo.

 

In the future, I may try to ensure the dates are closed ended, or on a weeknight or Sunday afternoon where expenses are limited.

 

The worst part of these situations is its really difficult to make a fair judgement on a person until after about 3 dates.

[avoforastig]

I wouldn't always recommend dives. Who wants to go to a dive when you are still in your suit from work?

 

Keep dating the ones who offer to pay. Stop dating the ones who don't or if you really like her say something like "I'll get this one; next time is on you." A well educated professional woman should be OK with that. She has to have enough brains to know dating in the DC metro area ain't cheap 'cause she lives there too.

 

This makes sense. The woman is exceedingly bashful, which is probably why I'm not optimistic about the future with her. Its really quite perplexing as she is very attractive.

[Ruby Slippers]

He very pointedly asked you for a name. It would have greatly furthered your argument had you responded with one.

I don't remember the name, and I don't feel it's my job to do the research. The amazing places that stand out are mostly ethnic restaurants. I've had INCREDIBLE Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian and other ethnic food in NYC for very low prices. And these are nice (but not ritzy) places with some ambiance, amazing food, and great service.

 

I'm sure that to your average trendy NYC guy or gal, that's not cool enough for a proper date. But that's a choice to go with the herd.

 

I bet you a million dollars that the coolest and most interesting women would LOVE to be taken somewhere DIFFERENT than the standard see-and-be-seen places, with the same tired conversations, outfits, responses.

 

But if you want the cookie cutter "romance" with the cookie cutter girl with the standard entry fee, that's your business.