Our Phone Call

[mirage12]

Hey everyone. I wanted to give you all an update. This is a continuation from "Should I Meet Up With Her" but I figured it deserved it's own thread. I know that many of you here have listened to my stories, give me amazing advice and have been truly supportive. I'm thankful for that, and I've tried to follow the advice when my own heart doesn't get in the way. Thank you for continuing to listen.

 

Yesterday, I did something I'm sure everyone here would say not too. A little bit of background. I live in LA right now. I came here for law school, which is where I met my ex and fell in love with her. In two weeks I'm moving to San Francisco. I have a good job up there but it feels like the most impulsive, irrational decision of my life. I turned a similarly good job down here, to leave. I've been very emotional with the realization of the process I've set in motion and two nights ago I couldn't sleep. I panicked yesterday morning because the realization of the immediate permanence of my move is setting in. More than that was the realization I am about to physically walk away from her (not our relationship, which ended, but her). So I reached out to my ex, asking to talk. She sensed it was urgent and she called me last night when she was off work.

 

We spoke for 2.5 hours on the phone. At first it was hard and awkward. After we had broken up, I never had a conversation with her about why, I never asked the hard questions and I never pleaded to get back together (although I didn't this time either). But, however many of you may chide me for this, I NEEDED to ask some questions, before I never again get the change to. So I did.

 

We talked a lot about my move. We talked about us. There were some questions I didn't know the right way to ask - but I tried to anyway. I asked her the same thing I did when I was breaking up - if we were done for now or forever. What she told me was honest - that nothing had changed, even if I was now moving. We broke up in part because we are starting new careers, hers being even more intense than mine. She wasn't home until 11pm last night. She told me how she barely even calls her parents anymore. She said that the same was true as before - that she couldn't say now or forever because she couldn't distinguish between the two and for all intents and purposes, they were the same. She is almost 30 and is going through her own growth and transition phase - just as I am. She told me again how she needed to be by herself for a while because not only was she figuring out how to adjust to her new grueling lifestyle but she's also figuring out herself - new things that make her happy, make her sane. At some point she sensed a question that I'd never ask her and told me that she couldn't ask me to stay. But that wasn't what I was going to ask because that's something I know wouldn't be fair to me or her. In the end, the answers I got were the same - that for now, we can't be together. Neither one of us can promise that it'll work in the future either - we are both changing and growing and don't know what we will be like in 6 months or a year or two years.

 

Nothing I heard was surprising, but I needed to hear it again, to make sure. We talked long after that, catching up, laughing, talking about people we knew, asking about each other's lives. She apologized for dropping breadcrumbs and said that she hadn't meant to and I also explained to her how I was sorry we had grown apart but I wanted to try to respect her space.

 

I guess the point of me writing this and the end of our conversation is somewhat bittersweet. At one point, I asked her why she said yes when I asked her to be my gf, or why we let things get so serious. It was an answer I already knew - because for a time, we both really did like each other and for a time, fell in love. She asked me about whether I was moving because I felt I was in a rut but talked me through how she thought it was more than that. At the end of the conversation, I was left with mixed feelings. Did it hurt to hear her voice? Yes. Am I sad? Yes. Did I wish she was in a different place in life? I do. But I also have begun to try to accept that not all relationships are meant to be forever. Sometimes people come into our lives for a time, and there's a reason. Maybe it's because we found solace in each other for a short period. Maybe it was to teach each other a little more about life. Maybe it was to be able to spend the last year of our lives before they changed significantly with someone who was equally scared of that change.

 

I'm glad that I had the conversation. I needed to ask the questions. I know many of you have worried that I'll continue to pine over her when I'm gone and reopen old wounds, etc. I'm going to try not to. I'm working on accepting that there's no "us" anymore, not now and not forever because they're the same. Maybe life has a different plan and our paths will cross again. If so, then things were meant to be and we'll get the second change that life got in the way of. Either way, I'm about to start a new adventure, in a new city with new people. I still love her. I will miss her dearly. And I know there's no closure from it, but I'm glad we got to talk.

 

Sorry this was so long. Thank you for reading.

[jphcbpa]

thanks for the update. perhaps this is what you needed to move forward, letting go and getting acceptance.

 

best of luck in your new journey.

[Simon Phoenix]

If this will be the spark to get you to actually move forward and leave this behind, then while it's not something I would have advised you to do, then it will have had a positive impact. If you continue to try to ruminate and plot ways to get back in her life, I will come to LA (I'm in the South Bay) or Frisco (have friends up there) and shake the sh*t out of you.

 

This is your closure. It's time to start walking forward -- you've spent several months spinning your wheels.

[Minneloa]

And I will fly across country to help Simon!

 

Seriously, please take this opportunity to put yourself first and tend to your long-overdue healing.

 

Sending good thoughts, especially for your new S.F. adventure!

 

M.

[BC1980]

Well, I hope you go NC now. I don't know that these conversations help in the long run. They tend to give you a short term high and good feeling, but you still have to deal with the grief in the end. NC is a long, hard road for sure, and the sooner you start the better.

[Simon Phoenix]

Well, I hope you go NC now. I don't know that these conversations help in the long run. They tend to give you a short term high and good feeling, but you still have to deal with the grief in the end. NC is a long, hard road for sure, and the sooner you start the better.

 

Yep, once the high ends he's going to have those "what if I said this?" type thoughts and come up with more questions that he wants to ask. That's why I think these conversations suck and why I advise against them, as most people can't just let go without replaying the conversation and adding the "what ifs". Since he's a graduated law student, it'll be harder for him than most to repress that.

[mirage12]

You are absolutely right. I don't usually think about it in that way but I do overthink things and it makes breakups very difficult for me (my breakup before this more recent one took me at least a year and a half to get over).

 

As I alluded to above, I'm scared to make the move. I can't help but think that I'm physically leaving behind someone I care very much about. I also think that my ex still has feelings for me and wants me to stay, even though she can't date right now/she couldn't say it outright (I've already made my decision to leave). Before everyone jumps on me, I'm going to be gone very soon. The distance will ease my hurt and hopefully I will be able to move on easier/be distracted by creating a new life. Again, I can't help but think the above, even though I try not to...I think it's just part of my process :/

[Weallwalkthelongroad]

I'd be terrified of having a call like this. I would probably lose my mind.

[mirage12]

I'd be terrified of having a call like this. I would probably lose my mind.

 

It was very hard and I didn't exactly get any kind of "high" afterward - more like numb sadness. But I needed to ask these questions/have the talk because I never really got a chance to, even when we were breaking up.

[Weallwalkthelongroad]

It was very hard and I didn't exactly get any kind of "high" afterward - more like numb sadness. But I needed to ask these questions/have the talk because I never really got a chance to, even when we were breaking up.

 

My ex was pretty ****ty and wouldn't even agree to have a conversation like this....either on the phone or in person. She was so elusive and distant that we had to agree to go our separate ways on Facebook. I tried calling and asking her breakfast but she refused so many time. So lame! So much was left unsaid and unanswered because it was a stupid FB conversation.

[Simon Phoenix]

You are absolutely right. I don't usually think about it in that way but I do overthink things and it makes breakups very difficult for me (my breakup before this more recent one took me at least a year and a half to get over).

 

As I alluded to above, I'm scared to make the move. I can't help but think that I'm physically leaving behind someone I care very much about. I also think that my ex still has feelings for me and wants me to stay, even though she can't date right now/she couldn't say it outright (I've already made my decision to leave). Before everyone jumps on me, I'm going to be gone very soon. The distance will ease my hurt and hopefully I will be able to move on easier/be distracted by creating a new life. Again, I can't help but think the above, even though I try not to...I think it's just part of my process :/

 

This is exactly why the call was not a good idea, it's giving you false hope again. I mean, if she wanted to be with you the fact that she's busy would not factor in. I've dated busy people -- busy people will always make you a priority if they love you. She not only isn't making you a priority, but she's more than willing to set you free.

 

Because she wouldn't completely tell you to pound sand, you are creating false hope. She didn't do that for two reasons a) she thinks it's nicer not to and b) she didn't want to answer more questions as to why you don't have a chance. You need to take the situation at face value -- she chose to cut you loose and continues to make that choice. Until she goes out of her way to say otherwise, you have to accept this. You need to get your brain out of your way.

[mirage12]

This is exactly why the call was not a good idea, it's giving you false hope again. I mean, if she wanted to be with you the fact that she's busy would not factor in. I've dated busy people -- busy people will always make you a priority if they love you. She not only isn't making you a priority, but she's more than willing to set you free.

 

Because she wouldn't completely tell you to pound sand, you are creating false hope. She didn't do that for two reasons a) she thinks it's nicer not to and b) she didn't want to answer more questions as to why you don't have a chance. You need to take the situation at face value -- she chose to cut you loose and continues to make that choice. Until she goes out of her way to say otherwise, you have to accept this. You need to get your brain out of your way.

 

You're right about this, it's that she WANTS to be single/alone right now, without the strings of a boyfriend. I knew this was the case when we broke up and it's still the case. So yes she's willing to let me go because she can't make a promise as to when this might change/when she might be ready to date again. I get that. It's also why I made my decision to leave before I spoke to her about it - so that whatever breadcrumbs she left would not affect my decision.

 

During our conversation though, she did drop a deathcab lyric to me (we are both fans):

 

I think that it's brainless to assume that making changes to your window's view will give you new perspective.

 

Seems like she thinks I'm running away (maybe I am).

[mirage12]

Also to edit that last message, none of my thoughts have been about getting back together now or in the immediate future. I've never asked her or pressured her for that. I understand we both need to grow, and we are (using different methods). It's the longer term, down the line hope that is harder to let go of...that's what I was referring to.

[Simon Phoenix]

You're right about this, it's that she WANTS to be single/alone right now, without the strings of a boyfriend. I knew this was the case when we broke up and it's still the case. So yes she's willing to let me go because she can't make a promise as to when this might change/when she might be ready to date again. I get that. It's also why I made my decision to leave before I spoke to her about it - so that whatever breadcrumbs she left would not affect my decision.

 

During our conversation though, she did drop a deathcab lyric to me (we are both fans):

 

I think that it's brainless to assume that making changes to your window's view will give you new perspective.

 

Seems like she thinks I'm running away (maybe I am).

 

Ugh. My prediction is this is not going to help you at all -- you are trying to interpret song lyrics now. I mean, at what point will you stop thinking about what she thinks and concentrate on you?

[Minneloa]

I also think that my ex still has feelings for me and wants me to stay, even though she can't date right now/she couldn't say it outright

 

OP, this is worrisome. This seems like your mind revving up and working over the narrative to find a more palatable, less painful version of events. I know you feel that the phone call answered your questions, but from where I am sitting, it seems mostly to have created more fuel for the fire.

 

Please heed BC has been saying about delaying the grief process. I think you are still in some serious denial about the finality of the breakup, still bargaining, still clinging to false hope. As Simon said, your ex is soft-pedaling the "reasons" she left. What you need to focus on is her actions: she left and isn't coming back.

 

I'm sorry. I know it hurts. But until you actually stop engaging with your ex, you are merely postponing the even greater pain of facing the loss head on. I urge you to go NC and grieve the lost relationship now. Otherwise, your mind will keep telling you soothing stories that only keep you in suspended animation, stuck in the past and your feelings for a woman who is gone.

[mirage12]

Yes I definitely am hearing what you're saying. Honestly, I was doing NC and was healing for the past month. What set all of this off was the fact that I made a very fast decision to move in the past week. After I made the decision, I reached out to let her know and she was very surprised/the phone call happened.

 

I may say those things and to some extent think them but I'm physically forcing myself to move on by moving and starting a new life.

[mirage12]

Also Minneola, re: your last post - I don't think the phone call answered any questions for me that I didn't already know. Her responses weren't new. Maybe part of it was that I wanted the convo to see if she'd say enough to try to get me to stay, which of course she couldn't.

[Weallwalkthelongroad]

I tried this approach in an older relationship that went awry. My ex dumped me out of nowhere after sharing many intimate thoughts with me. I was devastated at the time and had nobody to turn to and i lost it.

 

I ended up thinking I needed a change of scenery and since i was only 27 at the time, I decided to pack things up and move cross country to Colorado. I was able to get a job transfer and when I got there, things were even harder because I literally had nobody. Didn't know anybody at all. Add on the fact that my co-workers didn't like the fact that I was 27 and in charge of a multi-million dollar business, and they made my life even more miserable.

 

I eventually moved back home to the easst coast to continue my healing.

 

What I'm trying to say is if you THINK you are running away, please be careful as there is a possibility you may start to feel even worse in place that you are not completely comfortable.

[mirage12]

I know...this is something that's a little concerning to me. I got a good job offer in SF and I had a comparable offer where I am now. I did my due diligence and neither offer was significantly better or worse than the other. I had literally 4 days to decide to stay in LA or move to SF. I have lived in LA for 4 years now. I know a handful of people in SF but not nearly as many as LA. While I do think that I don't know how much I really "love" living in LA and I think I would love SF, the decision was made very quickly, with a lot of emotion. It wasn't irrational career wise but maybe irrational in that I'm choosing to uproot my life here.

 

I know that my breakup has fueled some of this emotion - it's why I started applying up in SF about a month ago. Anyone have thoughts on making city moves after a breakup?

[Minneloa]

Also Minneola, re: your last post - I don't think the phone call answered any questions for me that I didn't already know. Her responses weren't new. Maybe part of it was that I wanted the convo to see if she'd say enough to try to get me to stay, which of course she couldn't.

 

Either way, your mind is now rehashing and ruminating and reshaping the narrative details in overdrive. I get it. I empathize. Breakups stink, and I, too am an over-analytical ruminator. My last breakup left me with endless questions and subsets of questions. But the beauty of NC is it deprives your brain of material. You eventually run out of things to think! Right now, your brain is stimulated by this contact with the ex; your feelings have been reactivated. That's why I cautioned you about reaching out to her in that earlier thread.

 

What I wish for you is peace and healing. But you have to choose it, Mirage. You have to decide to put yourself first. This move is a great opportunity to start fresh, but you can't do that if you mentally and emotionally drag your ex with you to S.F.

[mirage12]

Either way, your mind is now rehashing and ruminating and reshaping the narrative details in overdrive. I get it. I empathize. Breakups stink, and I, too am an over-analytical ruminator. My last breakup left me with endless questions and subsets of questions. But the beauty of NC is it deprives your brain of material. You eventually run out of things to think! Right now, your brain is stimulated by this contact with the ex; your feelings have been reactivated. That's why I cautioned you about reaching out to her in that earlier thread.

 

What I wish for you is peace and healing. But you have to choose it, Mirage. You have to decide to put yourself first. This move is a great opportunity to start fresh, but you can't do that if you mentally and emotionally drag your ex with you to S.F.

 

I know that you're absolutely right. I'm the type of person who overthinks something 100x over to the point where it's almost like torturing myself with the "what ifs." It hasn't helped that this breakup hasn't been like any other I've had - I almost wish it had been contentious.

 

Breakups have always been very hard on me. I have trouble letting go.

[Minneloa]

I know that you're absolutely right. I'm the type of person who overthinks something 100x over to the point where it's almost like torturing myself with the "what ifs." It hasn't helped that this breakup hasn't been like any other I've had - I almost wish it had been contentious.

 

Breakups have always been very hard on me. I have trouble letting go.

 

Me too! I think that's why I resonate with your threads and want to respond to them. I am a sensitive, nostalgic person; combine that with overthinking, and you have a recipe for serious trouble in the letting go department. Hell, I still get wistful about my last ex (broke up in June), and he wasn't even a particularly good bf!

 

So, I hear you. And I want to support you in prioritizing your emotional health and wellbeing. For me, NC was a godsend because it gave me space and silence in which to grieve and have my feelings without the added crazy-making distraction of any input from my ex. And I am not going to lie to you: NC isn't some luxury hotel where the maids bring you tea and crumpets as you recline gracefully on your couch of sorrow. It felt, for me, more like a broken down fleabag motel where the Feds has hastily stashed me in witness protection. But after a while, I started to feel safe and have a layer of emotional distance from the breakup. And then, I didn't notice the waterstains and bedbugs as much.

[Weallwalkthelongroad]

I know that you're absolutely right. I'm the type of person who overthinks something 100x over to the point where it's almost like torturing myself with the "what ifs." It hasn't helped that this breakup hasn't been like any other I've had - I almost wish it had been contentious.

 

Breakups have always been very hard on me. I have trouble letting go.

 

I am the same way. Sometimes I wish I could just walk away and not care so much.

 

However, having a hard time letting go reminds me that I am human and that my intentions are/were always genuine.

[OzHeartache]

I am the same way. Sometimes I wish I could just walk away and not care so much.

 

However, having a hard time letting go reminds me that I am human and that my intentions are/were always genuine.

 

I'm right there with the 2 of you, a big softie and over analyzer, sometimes I wish I was as cold and heartless as some of my dumping exes but then I think no, stuff them, I'm a good person who is open and I shouldn't lower myself and values because I'm proud of who I am, even though it sucks to be continually stabbed and stomped on.... Just gotta believe the right one is out there and keep going even though I see no evidence of it at the moment!

 

We have to BELIEVE that they are out there !!

[hestheone66]

She was there and obviously wanting to help you when you called her.some may say it was guilt but likely she's just sad too it's good you are being philosophical about the purpose of your relationship . For relationships to endure apart from essential compatibility, companionship and chemistry , timing is crucial. You met each other at a time when neither of you could fully commit as you are pursuing other goals . However in earlier times these other distractions would not have entered the equation and she may have ended up pregnant and dependant. Perhaps a life of quiet resentment and togetherness is not better than the one that got away. I'm a firm believer that if it's meant to be you will each grow and you will find each other without planning or wishing to