Gunthar Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Gunthar, lets say that all of this is true. MM is a confused man in denial... Is it supposed to comfort OW that a man in this state of mind loves her? Is OW supposed to be emotionally fulfilled simply because MM truly & deeply loves? Is OW supposed to sacrifice her hopes & dreams because MM must fulfill his obligations? It may be comforting for OW to know that MM wasn't faking his feelings. However, then they are left with a cold realization. Even though this man loves her with all his heart, even though they have a connection deeper than either has ever felt, even though she has sacrificed and compromised for X amount of time... none of that is important enough for him to face the consequences of leaving his marriage. I'm sorry, but it's just not right for a MM to drag another woman into the confused mess of his life, and then say "But I really love her! She's the one in my heart!", as if that's all that matters. Hi QS. In order... Q1-It may, since it's an answer. It probably does to some degree, if it is THE answer. No one here thinks it's the ideal answer (and maybe not even 'good'), but it would provide the solace of knowing what's going on for him, in his heart and mind, which it seems OP wants to know. Q2-It's a fallacy that anyone can be emotionally fulfilled by any one person. If so, there would be no affairs and psychology would have all the answers (it just defines phenomenons)...we're all trying to get through, enhance, or simply better enjoy (etc.) life... I think a lot of folks here a unwilling or unable to see passed their own 'fix-it' attitudes and accept the brokenness that is human nature/experience. I want to think I'm the bee's-knees, deserving faithfulness, honesty (and I do), but I don't get it; I get hurt, betrayal, etc. when I've been completely faithful and supportive. Q3-Apologies, but I think the question is preposterous; I don't think anyone actually ever sacrifices. Ever. We adjust risk/reward all the time, in terms of emotion, love, and vulnerability. She wants answers; my speculation may be close to her actual answer, for all we know (not likely I'd guess). OP is looking for comfort. I'm simply offering what may be the case; not a mechanical analysis of a short list of facts, backed with commentary of fix-it "isms". Is she worth him leaving? More than likely, yes, and without question. But our affairs are NOT in a vacuum or frozen in time. Most of the people here are all decent, and worth pledging a lifelong commitment to, I'm sure. But OP is not the only factor in the equation, unfortunately. For you to suggest HE is responsible ("dragging her", i.e. she has no control or say in her own 'dragging') is to pretend he is in control of her, and she is absolved of all/any responsibility. They are dragging each other, by human nature. They started this relationship in all of its dynamic-ness (the known/describable and unknown/hidden-hurt, etc.) of their own free will, driven by what is in them. It will continue, because when people collide like this, the curiosity and desire are either allowed to be explored, or artificially and inorganically suppressed, in my best estimation. Yes, it sucks. It's worse than 'less-than-ideal'. I don't disagree with your sentiments. If he's is at where I am at, then OP is going to weigh this and be that much more sad, possibly. G Edited March 5, 2014 by Gunthar
Quiet Storm Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Hi G Q1-It may, since it's an answer. It probably does to some degree, if it is THE answer. No one here thinks it's the ideal answer, except that it provides the solace of knowing the truth. It may offer some comfort, but it just prompts more questions. What is love if you don't act on it? It's like a parent who says they love their kid, but neglects them or abuses them. Sure, there are probably valid reasons why the parent is "broken", but that doesn't mean the kid will feel loved. There is more to love than just the "feelings" of the person declaring it. If it's not backed up with loving actions, then what is the value of that love to the recipient? Q2-It's a fallacy that anyone can be emotionally fulfilled by any one person. If so, there would be no affairs and psychology would have all the answers (it just defines phenomenons)...we're all trying to get through, enhance, or simply better enjoy (etc.) life... I think a lot of folks here a unwilling or unable to see passed their own 'fix-it' attitudes and accept the brokenness that is human nature/experience. I want to think I'm the bee's-knees, but I know I'm not;trying to be though. I agree that happiness & fulfillment come from within. However, many MM say they are not happy in their marriages, and insinuate that they would be happy with OW. Most aren't self aware enough to know that happiness comes from within. Regarding brokenness... yes we are all flawed. We are all affected by our experiences and circumstances of our lives. This doesn't mean that we should just accept poor treatment from others, though. If we are the broken one, we can certainly improve, evolve, mature and grow. And although a "broken" person may not intentially harm others, the end result is the same as someone that intentionally manipulates. We should protect ourselves from broken people, not wallow in their pain and confusion because "everyone's broken". Of course, many broken people are not introspective enough to put a buffer between their issues and those that they love. Which means they can be emotionally dangerous and shouldn't be trusted or relied upon. Q3-Apologies, but I think the question is preposterous; I don't think anyone actually ever sacrifices. Ever. We adjust risk/reward all the time, in terms of emotion, love, and vulnerability. She wants answers. I guess we have a different definition. IMO, many OW do sacrifice. It is their choice, but most do it because they have faith in their MM. They often settle for much less than what they want or deserve, which is a sacrifice. They often feel isolated from family & friends because they can't speak freely about their life. Some wait years for a MM and lose their chance to have a child. They often sacrifice Christmas mornings, romantic vacations, public outings, etc. So while you may see it as them just "taking a risk", many OW do feel that they give up a lot to accomodate the MM. For you to suggest HE is responsible ("dragging her", i.e. she has no control or say in her own 'dragging') is to pretend he is in control of her, and she is absolved of all/any responsibility. They are dragging each other, by human nature. They started this relationship in all of its dynamic-ness (the known/describable and unknown/hidden-hurt, etc.) of their own free will, driven by what is in them. It will continue, because when people collide like this, the curiosity and desire are either allowed to be explored, or artificially and inorganically suppressed, in my best estimation. Drag was the wrong word for me to use. I know that OW chooses this life, but it's often because of lies the MM tells. I am the first one to tell OW to own their part. However, if you are a broken, confused, and fearful man... shouldn't you resolve those issues first, before you involve another person? Broken people meander through life, allowing their issues to rain down on their kids, spouses, parents, OW, etc. Yes, it is OW's responsiblity to protect herself from messed up people. But OW's naivety doesn't mean the broken one isn't responsible. Most MM don't tell OW "I love you but I'm NEVER leaving", which would force OW to either accept it or leave. Most MM operate with the dangling carrot of a "life together". That's messed up, and brokenness is no excuse. Is she worth him leaving? More than likely, yes, and without question. But our affairs are in a vacuum or frozen in time. Most of the people here are all decent, and worth pledging a lifelong commitment to, I'm sure. But OP is not the only factor in the equation, unfortunately. Her value as a person is not affected by MM's choices. But the risk of leaving isn't worth the reward of being with OW, correct? In the vacuum, OW is worth it- when there are no sacrifices to be made. My point is that the love a MM feels for OW does not prompt him to change his life. Like you said, his investment is at home. He could divorce, deal with the consequences and change the focus of his investment to OW, but he doesn't choose that. It's just too hard. So MM may value the OW and their relationship, but she is not his priority. Whether it's obligations, duty, fear of change, conflict avoidance, etc., OW's feelings seem to be secondary. Yes, it sucks. It's worse than 'less-than-ideal'. I don't disagree with your sentiments. If he's is at where I am at, then OP is going to weigh this and be that much more sad, possibly. Yes, it certainly sucks. Edited March 5, 2014 by Quiet Storm
Gunthar Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Well, I think we're passing each other a bit, and there are certainly some words being put in my mouth ('agreeing' on where happiness comes from). I've offered my speculation to convey my story indirectly and to offer something genuine to the OP. You can certainly continue to indirectly give OP pause re: my statements. OP will believe what they want, and decide what their values and priorities are at this point in their life. We all desire (and deserve) "the best", but none of us have it. How you add more of it to your life (and how much is enough) is what we're all strategizing toward. G
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