PurpleCardigan Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 I broke no contact today with my ex (work phone…I can’t block him) as I didn’t terminate the conversation when it veered from work to personal. I’m confused and sad now but NC will resume. Anyway, we started talking about how we ended, how mostly me, but him too, is having trouble as he wants a secret friendship and I can’t do that, hence the NC. I don’t see my counselor until the end of the week but need some help deciphering something. One of things he said to me was "don’t think about it too much", "don’t dwell". He said, today and previously, that he simply doesn’t think about the problems at home or the pain of the current situation (meaning my pain). He also said this when I asked him (a while ago) why he pursued me if he was going to stay married because of his kid. "I just wasn't thinking about it." He freely admits that he exercises, surfs the web, watches movies, and works a lot to avoid thinking about things. Is this just a form of denial? Or is home too comfy and this is just an excuse? If it's an excuse then why was he so emotional today especially when he talked about why he stays for his daughter. Normally I chalk that up to an excuse but the emotions caught me off guard, maybe he does think he is doing the right thing. (Yeah, I'm confused.) I tried doing internet research on the why’s of this previously but with no luck…denial seems to focus on refusing to believe something happened versus ignoring a problem to a resolution. Can anyone offer some insight? Did your AP say or do anything similar to this "not thinking about it"? Is this a common MM/MW affair behavior? (sidenote: I’m completely analytical. When I can break something down and understand it, then I can move on. I’m like this personally and professionally, so please don’t say “just let it go”.)
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 He is one of those guys who can separate what he is doing, detach from it and put it out of his head. When he was with you, he didn't think of his wife, what he was doing to her, or to their child, the consequences of it all if his wife found out ...When he was/is at home, he'd focus on them, his wife and child and put you out of his head. This is why he has no issues with anything. He is just going with the flow, whatever happens, happens. His emotions are tied to his daughter though, he doesn't want to lose her, hurt her, have to explain his actions to her, which is why he probably is encouraging you/told you to stay in the moment and not 'think' so much (maybe he means invest emotionally?) about you and him. He has detached from you, and you need to detach from him more too.
Author PurpleCardigan Posted March 4, 2014 Author Posted March 4, 2014 He is one of those guys who can separate what he is doing, detach from it and put it out of his head. When he was with you, he didn't think of his wife, what he was doing to her, or to their child, the consequences of it all if his wife found out ...When he was/is at home, he'd focus on them, his wife and child and put you out of his head. This is why he has no issues with anything. He is just going with the flow, whatever happens, happens. His emotions are tied to his daughter though, he doesn't want to lose her, hurt her, have to explain his actions to her, which is why he probably is encouraging you/told you to stay in the moment and not 'think' so much (maybe he means invest emotionally?) about you and him. He has detached from you, and you need to detach from him more too. The compartmentalization idea is interesting...although I disagree on the detaching. My goal is NC/no friendship and he's the one that wants it. After we talked, he texted that talking with me was like a drink of water in after being in a dry parched desert. He doesn't want to go cold turkey with me and up until today I just ignore anything that wasn't work related (and even some of those too if I felt it was a ploy to get me to respond). So there is still a bit of cake eating.
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Then he is being selfish and not hearing you. Since you want no contact (other than business related issues) then show him you mean that. Don't do personal talks with him at all. Any crack he'll slip in and take advantage of it.
Quiet Storm Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Some people learn to detach in childhood. It helps to protect us from the pain of having an alcoholic parent, fighting or hostility in the home, abuse, neglect, bullying, etc. It can carry over into adulthood and become almost automatic whenever there is an uncomfortable situation. Sometimes keeping yourself busy and your mind occupied is a healthy way to move on. 3
Hope Shimmers Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 I continue to be amazed at how many men (most?) seem to compartmentalize everything in life. It's like there are several little boxes in their brains, and all the boxes have lids on. When something is taken out, it doesn't touch anything in any of the other boxes in any way... then it gets put back in its box and on goes the lid. 1
Author PurpleCardigan Posted March 4, 2014 Author Posted March 4, 2014 I continue to be amazed at how many men (most?) seem to compartmentalize everything in life. It's like there are several little boxes in their brains, and all the boxes have lids on. When something is taken out, it doesn't touch anything in any of the other boxes in any way... then it gets put back in its box and on goes the lid. Hope Shimmers, I read this and it makes sense (sort of) but since I don't think this way I just don't get it. Maybe I'll never get it...like being color blind. How do you describe red or green? The odd part is that he said that I have boxes and his worst fear was that I would put him in one and forget about him. My counselor doesn't see these so-called boxes in me. Perhaps he was projecting his view of the world -- boxes with lids -- onto me while we were together. Hmmm...
Hope Shimmers Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Hope Shimmers, I read this and it makes sense (sort of) but since I don't think this way I just don't get it. Maybe I'll never get it...like being color blind. How do you describe red or green? The odd part is that he said that I have boxes and his worst fear was that I would put him in one and forget about him. My counselor doesn't see these so-called boxes in me. Perhaps he was projecting his view of the world -- boxes with lids -- onto me while we were together. Hmmm... I don't think you have 'boxes'... I think you are like me... very analytical, and most everything is connected to everything else. 1
herself Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 I think your reading too much into it. Hes a guy, they often selfishly do as they please.
XenoMouse Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 He's just lying about simply not thinking about it so he doesnt come off as how much he thinks about it. If he asked for the seceret friendship and texted you to say that the convo was like water in desert he's def been thinking about it. And come on i think we all know that watching movies and surfing the web really doesnt do anything to distract a person. I know this might be horribly unproductive and detrimental to your efforts but from a guys point of view he was just saying that to play it cool. Its a classic guy move, play it cool makes him and the mood seem light so the secret friendship is agreeable and chill. secret friendship can then progress to round 2. Theres really not much more to it than that. 2
gettingstronger Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 If you like to analyze things than just analyze the part that you know as fact. He will not leave his family for you. The whys don't matter and just muddy the waters. Of this is unacceptable, to be in an affair than you have no choice than to accept it's over and contact only prolongs your recovery. From a strictly analytical pov this is a deadend and not worthy of your time or energy. 1
Snipercatt Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Sounds like he is selfish, self absorbed and compartmentalizes in order to not consider the consequences of his behavior on others. He has prioritized his feelings and then his daughter's feelings over his wife's feelings, and your feelings. He chooses to do so, regardless of excuses. Try this exercise. Ignore his words, focus on what he is doing. His behavior tells. I learned to do this so well that when his lips were moving I totally blocked out hearing what he was saying. It became comical. 1
Owl Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Look up the definintion of "shallow" as it refers to personality or character. You'll see his pic right next to the word. 2
Snipercatt Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 PC, if you focus on his choices they have predictable consequences regardless of how much energy he spends verbalizing to the contrary. Denial doesn't just mean that you don't believe something happened. It can include professing something to be true but behaving in a contrary manner. Denial, in large doses, errodes character. 1
KathyM Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Your MM is actively avoiding feeling guilt in order to continue with the infidelity. If he allowed himself to really think about his actions, and the negative consequences of his actions and potential negative consequences, he would have a much harder time continuing the infidelity. So he chooses to actively put those thoughts out of his mind, and encourages you to put them out of your mind so that you will continue the affair without guilt. That is how many people end up doing destructive things to themselves and others is they put the negative consequences out of their mind and don't allow themselves to think about it. 2
Owl Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Look up the definintion of "shallow" as it refers to personality or character. You'll see his pic right next to the word. PC, if you focus on his choices they have predictable consequences regardless of how much energy he spends verbalizing to the contrary. Denial doesn't just mean that you don't believe something happened. It can include professing something to be true but behaving in a contrary manner. Denial, in large doses, errodes character. Quod ergo asshat. 1
SoleMate Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Classic compartmentalizing, very common in cheaters. They don't want to or can't do the work to live an integrated life that would bear scrutiny from all participants. This kind of behavior makes perfect sense to compartmentalizers while it baffles those with a more integrated approach, who don't understand why this choice would even seem possible to some. BTK serial killer was an apparently great family man at home. Extreme case, yes, but illustrates the principle. Compartmentalizers can surprise the heck out of you!!!! :-( 2
Snipercatt Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 "Quod ergo asshat." My Latin is rusty. Like, 43 years rusty. Owl, did you mean to post the phrase, "So, what asshat" to me?
Author PurpleCardigan Posted March 5, 2014 Author Posted March 5, 2014 Thanks to everyone who took time to answer today…I had a work emergency so I couldn’t check until I got home. Xeno – the male point of view is always helpful! My guy friends struggled with questions when I asked them, so I stopped doing that and miss the male voice. It was good to see this as a warning sign to me. I was so busy focusing on one thing that I didn’t realize that there could be something else to look out for. While I’m confident that he only wants the emotional side of me, not a physical/loving relationship, that was one of the reasons I went NC. It was too hard for me, emotionally, and I knew that I was the band-aid (at least temporarily) on his marriage and unhappiness. I'll have to stay on my guard for future contact. Owl – You made me laugh and you are correct in both your posts. My sadness from yesterday has turned back to reality on what he is really like. Your reminders, helped And I will also read about the character side of shallow. KathyM and SoleMate – your explanations are much appreciated and helpful to this analytical mind. As an update-- he got upset today when I back to work only today, but such is life. Ignoring the personal texts and the short convo was work only then I shut it down. I have a boundary and will keep it. 3
herself Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I just feel like we put to much emphasis on the psychology aspect, its real simple, were selfish and often more times the men as it seems women so put their heart in it, but basically we just look the other way from the guilty reality that its hurting people and and allow our selfish pleasure as long as we can. Hes saying imo this isnt a big deal & your analyzing is making it not fun. He thinks about it alright....thinks about how long til his next fix and how he can avoid drama, repercussions & discussion on feelings. This was only supposed to be fun & satisfying his needs. Doesnt wanna be responsible for your well being & feelings. So hes sayingin a passive way, dont make it deeper or more than it is, fforget that part. He only wants the fun part. Just my opinion. 2
gettingstronger Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 This was only supposed to be fun & satisfying his needs. Doesnt wanna be responsible for your well being & feelings. So hes sayingin a passive way, dont make it deeper or more than it is, fforget that part. He only wants the fun part. Really good point-and all the more reason to not be involved in this type of relationship if you want more than that- 2
Author PurpleCardigan Posted March 5, 2014 Author Posted March 5, 2014 I just feel like we put to much emphasis on the psychology aspect, its real simple, were selfish and often more times the men as it seems women so put their heart in it, but basically we just look the other way from the guilty reality that its hurting people and and allow our selfish pleasure as long as we can. Hes saying imo this isnt a big deal & your analyzing is making it not fun. He thinks about it alright....thinks about how long til his next fix and how he can avoid drama, repercussions & discussion on feelings. This was only supposed to be fun & satisfying his needs. Doesnt wanna be responsible for your well being & feelings. So hes sayingin a passive way, dont make it deeper or more than it is, fforget that part. He only wants the fun part. Just my opinion. Thanks...maybe for others but not in this case. He's a cake eater and selfish but the conversation that he keeps initiating is about how he feels sorry for hurting me. He pursed me and also ended it. (I do take full responsibility for my choices in the relationship.) As I mentioned earlier, he does want my emotional support but knows that it is not possible. However, the contact continues from him. It is less and less but still regular. I've held the line for months but engaged a few days ago -- my mistake. My goal is no contact -- ever, to end this roller coaster. I was trying to learn why he doesn't think about his problems as that is alien to me; and if others experienced similar statements/actions. That's how I learn and grow by analyzing and understanding the world around me. I also do it to things I learn about myself. The reason -- the more I read about emotional unavailability and compartmentalization the more I can see potential red flags for future relationships.
Gunthar Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) A lot of the speculation here may be on the money. If I project myself though, most of them are wrong... He's utterly in denial about all the desire in his heart for you. The current situation derails his entire life and so he has no choice but to distract himself. He chooses to stuff how he feels (for varying lengths of each and every day) because he wants to tell you everything (may be able to go on about it for hours once his engine gets going) but is more afraid of you invalidating what he knows is real for him, and as a result would have nothing any longer but a derailed-self who is now fully rejected by one he loves. Misses and wants you. Is hoping for the planets to align again, but you have to show you're open. The M, his W, etc. it's all just a fixture now that he must preserve for a number of real reasons. Sometimes he finds what he needs in that fixture, but it's not where his heart is. It's just what he's tied to; where he invested, so he has to ride it out. Believe what you want, but you owe it to yourself to find out the truth. You want to know what's in his heart? You have to have a real candid and incredibly focused conversation toward that end; Not sit here and listen to our speculations, no matter how many facts/details you give us. You can't really analyze desire. It just is. Or you dehumanize them, and really yourself too... Apologies if I'm not fully tracking with the thread. Just saw your last comment, OP. G Edited March 5, 2014 by Gunthar 1
herself Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 A lot of the speculation here may be on the money. If I project myself though, most of them are wrong... He's utterly in denial about all the desire in his heart for you. The current situation derails his entire life and so he has no choice but to distract himself. He chooses to stuff how he feels (for varying lengths of each and every day) because he wants to tell you everything (may be able to go on about it for hours once his engine gets going) but is more afraid of you invalidating what he knows is real for him, and as a result would have nothing any longer but a derailed-self who is now fully rejected by one he loves. Misses and wants you. Is hoping for the planets to align again, but you have to show you're open. The M, his W, etc. it's all just a fixture now that he must preserve for a number of real reasons. Sometimes he finds what he needs in that fixture, but it's not where his heart is. It's just what he's tied to; where he invested, so he has to ride it out. Believe what you want, but you owe it to yourself to find out the truth. You want to know what's in his heart? You have to have a real candid and incredibly focused conversation toward that end; Not sit here and listen to our speculations, no matter how many facts/details you give us. You can't really analyze desire. It just is. Or you dehumanize them, and really yourself too... Apologies if I'm not fully tracking with the thread. Just saw your last comment, OP. G Gunthar, if you have a moment, can u pm me? I have a question if you wouldnt mind.
Quiet Storm Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 A lot of the speculation here may be on the money. If I project myself though, most of them are wrong... He's utterly in denial about all the desire in his heart for you. The current situation derails his entire life and so he has no choice but to distract himself. He chooses to stuff how he feels (for varying lengths of each and every day) because he wants to tell you everything (may be able to go on about it for hours once his engine gets going) but is more afraid of you invalidating what he knows is real for him, and as a result would have nothing any longer but a derailed-self who is now fully rejected by one he loves. Misses and wants you. Is hoping for the planets to align again, but you have to show you're open. The M, his W, etc. it's all just a fixture now that he must preserve for a number of real reasons. Sometimes he finds what he needs in that fixture, but it's not where his heart is. It's just what he's tied to; where he invested, so he has to ride it out. Believe what you want, but you owe it to yourself to find out the truth. You want to know what's in his heart? You have to have a real candid and incredibly focused conversation toward that end; Not sit here and listen to our speculations, no matter how many facts/details you give us. You can't really analyze desire. It just is. Or you dehumanize them, and really yourself too... Apologies if I'm not fully tracking with the thread. Just saw your last comment, OP. G Gunthar, lets say that all of this is true. MM is a confused man in denial. He's stuffing his true feelings. He's scared of rejection. He loves his OW. His heart is with OW. He misses OW. But he still chooses to invest himself in his wife & family. Is it supposed to comfort OW that a man in this state of mind loves her? Is OW supposed to be emotionally fulfilled simply because MM truly & deeply loves his OW like he's loved no one else? Is OW supposed to sacrifice her hopes & dreams because MM must fulfill his obligations? It may be comforting for OW to know that MM wasn't faking his feelings. However, then they are left with a cold realization. Even though this man loves her with all his heart, even though they have a connection deeper than either has ever felt, even though she has sacrificed and compromised for X amount of time... none of that is important enough for him to face the consequences of leaving his marriage. I'm sorry, but it's just not right for a MM to drag another woman into the confused mess of his life, and then say "But I really love her! She's the one in my heart!", as if that's all that matters.
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