Give me an outside perspective

March 3, 2014

Well guys I am new on this forum and wanted to get an outside perspective on my situation without any bias.

I met a girl online (first and only online date) by pure chance about 7 months ago and we went out on a date. I am usually very picky about who I take out as I simply like to filter out anything I might not like right off the bet. From the very first time I saw her I had feelings. I am in my late 20;s and have had 3 long term GF’s and a few short term flings in between but have always been very social during my college years and surrounded by females so I am pretty sure at this point in life I know what’s lust and what’s real. This girl was real, we hit it off right off the bat and started texting each other every day. It was just a really good fit from the very beginning with lots of chemistry. I really fell in love with this girl and we stayed together for 7 months. She was warm, caring and wonderful for the majority of the time and I found her beautiful in every way. She hid all her internal issues well.

Once in a while I had weird uneasy feelings while we were together, just a gut feeling that something was wrong, the way she acted sometimes, the way she behaved herself while out drinking etc… The whole time I believed in giving her my full trust, never snooped around, and never questioned her. Finally the underlying issues started to get to me, she started to get suspicious of me (I have never cheated on any of my GF’s and never intend to), and also was very insecure about herself and started going through my personal things looking for something. I never gave her any reason not to trust me.

Finally we got into the much needed conversation, and all hell broke loose. She admitted to have had low self-esteem all her life, depression and drinking issues. She has slept with 40+ guys (I suspect the real number is much higher), lots of one night stands, she has cheated habitually and been cheated on. I never slept around. The worst part was that she made out with some random guy right after we started dating, and was also in contact with some other guy during our relationship. I broke up with her the same day. This hit me like a ton of bricks, my love for her literally faded into pure disgust and repulsion. I felt totally betrayed. She of course tried to justify her behavior any way possible. I have my faults too but I would never ever resort to lying and cheating.

This girl has caused me more pain than all other relationships combined. After those feelings subsided in a few days it turned into sadness. I am talking can’t eat, can’t sleep for 3 days type sadness. Emotions I have never felt before. I have had GF’s before for much longer (3-4 years) and I don’t think I ever loved any of them like I loved this person. Past breakups didn’t bother me too bad; I was fine and always moved on happily knowing that we will both find a better fit and life will be happy.

This one is different. What we had was magic, the fit was almost perfect.

My emotions are all over the map, the sadness comes from the fact that the whole situation is so tragic. I wanted to love and protect this person for the rest of my life. I now realize that I was just one of many, she is a habitual dater, and the fact that she was doing/saying all those things to just about any guy hurt me really bad. The whole time I thought she picked me and I picked her because we found a bond/love/chemistry/whatever. Sad fact is that she picked me because I showed up to the date just like many guys before me did. I just stuck around because I loved her as a person.

The internal conflict is the fact that she is so broken, her past history, the cheating, the lying all of it. I get so sad thinking about her continuing on this path and having guys use her, she has been doing this for years and years so the chances of her really stopping are small. Most articles I read don’t look good, people with those types of issues and poor morals rarely change and they justify their actions by lying to themselves and others. I DO believe she can change if she puts the effort into it. That’s my hope, if she commits and starts a brand new life with new a new moral compass it’s possible. Statistically, people rarely change however. She tells me she is so sorry and dedicated now, but of course she will say anything at this point, right? There is absolutely no way for me to know if she is sorry and really feels this or if she has done this to 30 guys before me and is hoping it will work on some until the next episode.

All of my friends and family are telling me to run as far as I can (I only reveled some details, I am horrified to reveal everything because it’s so ugly), that she is a broken person who is selfish and lacks morals. I have people trying to set me up with girls from every direction right now. Yet I care about her a lot still. If I could find a way to overlook all the bad I would try again with her, at this moment I don’t see a way for that since the trust is long gone.

Yet I know that what we had was something both of us probably won’t find again. I know I will be fine in a few months down the road and I am sure I will find a perfectly nice girl for myself to settle down with, but then I think about her and get so sad. Time is not on her side, she has limited options and with her past promiscuous sexual history not too many people want to take the chance to get serious with someone like that. I feel like she will continue to look for false self-fulfillment and for some reason I feel responsible. Some sort of a “save the tragic figure” impulse I guess.

I have always been like that, my last GF of 3 years was a wonderful person with no past issues but we broke up because the chemistry just wasn’t there. She was working and finishing her 2nd master’s degree at night while we were dating and had a mountain of student debt, she barely got by when we met but was very hardworking and dedicated person. I felt guilty after we broke up because she was such a strong person but I couldn’t grow to love her like she loved me. I am now fortunate enough to be well off financially so after we broke up I tried to help her by offering her some financial help, she of course refused (too proud) so I went behind her back and paid off all her debt (car, credit cards etc.) that made me happy. Unfortunately I can’t fix this situation with money.

This last girl has me in all kind of knots. I know the relationship is over; chances are she will cheat on me again yet I keep trying to find a way to make everything right. While the ugly side of her made me fall out of love with her I still love her on some weird level.

If anyone has any experience with similar situations I would appreciate any feedback.

March 3, 2014

You click with her on a lot of levels, we get it. However, is that enough to think you are the chosen one to help her straighten out her life? You are not her savior. You cannot fix years upon years of self destructive behavior. No matter how much money you throw at the problem, you cannot fix it. You sound like you want to make her your project because of the unbelievable chemistry. Trust me my friend, you are going down a road you do not want to go down. It is filled with betrayal and heartache. I have no earthly idea why you would want to do this. In the end, look in the mirror and ask yourself some tough questions. What is compelling you to help her? Chemistry? It better be more than that. I would say this is more about you than her.

March 4, 2014

It sounds like she screwed up the best thing that ever came her way. The fact that you still have some positive feelings for her and you are trying to help her says enough about you. 99 out of 100 guys would flee and laugh right after suspecting she has had this many sexual partners and is a cheater. I salute you sir for your strength. Remember, it’s always easier to run away and not have to deal with the issues in front of you, it take a lot of self-strength to face the challenges.

What you have to realize is that she did all of this to herself. Cheaters will find any excuse in the book to justify their behavior. “it was only kissing” “I didn’t mean to” “it didn’t mean anything” “I was drunk!” we all heard it a million times. Someone who leads that sort of a lifestyle does not value herself. Speaking from experience I can tell you that you can’t force someone to change unless they are ready to change. She will wake up one day and realize that she is not 24 anymore and guys won’t be chasing her anymore, all her friends are married/in relationships and she is still alone or jumping from one one night stand to another.

After so many failed “relationships” she maybe will see that it was her all along that caused the damage in her own life. If she keeps sleeping around she will never have any self-worth. Or maybe she just wants to be single forever, not all women want to settle down and have kids or a family.

Cheer up; it’s a lot easier for a guy to find a good girl that won’t cheat than the other way around. Women want stability in a man, especially when they get older. The fact that she threw away your relationship because she couldn’t control her impulses says it all. You deserve much better.

March 4, 2014

This girl sounds a bit like me... Im a wild card, Im hard to read, Im an enigma, Im bad news etc etc Ive heard them all ! only from my point of view it seems quite simple... Ive been through a lot, Ive been hurt, Ive had to become 100% independent, I drink too much sometimes but I know Id never cheat & I will look after my man, I know Im a good person... sometimes people only show what they want others to see... usually because they have been too open and trusting in the past x U cant save her if these are her issues but u can provide support and love & sometimes thats all someone needs x

March 4, 2014

She seems like the female version of my ex.

We too had a lot of chemistry and were very similar (more than I'm willing to admit sometimes). But he had drinking issues and a "haunting" past.

Maybe we will never feel the same again for anyone, but we'll find someone stable, for sure.

Like they have already told you: You are no one's savior.

They should save themselves if they want to.

If they don't want to... It's their choice and nothing/no one will change that.

I learned it the hard way with him.

At first he was all happy to change his life style... Months passed by and he started being grumpy all the time. When I broke up with him first thing he did was to contact his ex and get drunk for days, so...

We are free from unnecessary drama, believe this.

March 4, 2014

Consider this your get out of jail free card...much more pain down the road.

You were probably more in love with a fantasy than the real her. You probably assigned magical qualities to a person who can in no way live up to them.

You should be asking yourself why you attracted and fell in love with such a broken person. Make this about fixing you.

March 4, 2014

Consider this your get out of jail free card...much more pain down the road.

You were probably more in love with a fantasy than the real her. You probably assigned magical qualities to a person who can in no way live up to them.

You should be asking yourself why you attracted and fell in love with such a broken person. Make this about fixing you.

Or flip that on its head and he actually is clinging on because he can see through the outside BS and see the real girl underneath x

March 4, 2014

Or flip that on its head and he actually is clinging on because he can see through the outside BS and see the real girl underneath x

I think this is probable. I maybe think this way for the "good side" my ex had.

But he prefers the "bad side" and I really couldn't do anything to change that.

Neither the OP for his ex gf.

March 4, 2014

Yea I get that but sometimes the good side outweighs the bad but unfortunately the bad usually comes across quicker than the good side (cos the 'bad' side is just the outside layer of protection) x

March 4, 2014

Or flip that on its head and he actually is clinging on because he can see through the outside BS and see the real girl underneath x

perhaps, but he can't fix her..that fact remains. she would need to work on this and it could take years of deep therapy and support. Is she willing to do that? Is he willing to give her that support with no guarantees?

March 4, 2014

perhaps, but he can't fix her..that fact remains. she would need to work on this and it could take years of deep therapy and support. Is she willing to do that? Is he willing to give her that support with no guarantees?

Thats exactly what I meant by he cant save her... this is a journey she has to o by herself but that is made a lot easier with a good love and support network x

March 4, 2014

Thats exactly what I meant by he cant save her... this is a journey she has to o by herself but that is made a lot easier with a good love and support network x

You're right. Everyone deserves love and support. It's just that when you've been lied to it's hard to keep trusting and all the important things.

March 4, 2014

Thanks for the replies guys.

She says she is committed to changing herself. I want to believe her with all my heart, but why would this time be any different? She said she will give up drinking, but told me she has been to AA before so she knew she had a drinking problem when we met she would drink and black out. She has cheated in all or most of her relationships, so how is the future going to be different?

She has had 15+ years to straighten herself out, i totally get that people go through fazes in life but this faze hasn't stopped yet with her. She kept having one night stands up to the point we met. If i find a way to try again with her and work on her, and then down the road she does it again, i don't know if i could forgive myself then because that would be my mistake this time for trusting her again. She always takes the easy way out, and if we have kids down the road it would be even worse. Strange situation.

Maybe we will get back in touch months down the road and i guess i will see if she really has changed. I know she is hurting right now which makes me sad of course. At the same time if she goes and finds another **** buddy to get over her pain instead of really concentrating on herself, it will validate my decisions and i will know i made the right choice to leave her. If she stays committed and fixes herself maybe i will grow to love and respect her again someday.

March 4, 2014

For the record, i was no saint in this relationship i know i hurt her also. I was demanding, kind of mean and raised my voice in an argument with her. She was fragile so a lot of my jokes came off very mean. Thats my personal issues i need to work on.

Of course she uses that as an excuse; times i was mean to her she would go text some other ex. Before this girl I would never tolerate thisbehaviour i cant even believe i am double guessing myself. I have seen so many girls like this in college; you know the girl that gets passed around and can never say NO to anyone. In a million years i never thought i would fall in love with one of those girls. She did hide it well in the first few months.

March 4, 2014

Thanks for the replies guys.

She says she is committed to changing herself. I want to believe her with all my heart, but why would this time be any different? She said she will give up drinking, but told me she has been to AA before so she knew she had a drinking problem when we met she would drink and black out. She has cheated in all or most of her relationships, so how is the future going to be different?

She has had 15+ years to straighten herself out, i totally get that people go through fazes in life but this faze hasn't stopped yet with her. She kept having one night stands up to the point we met. If i find a way to try again with her and work on her, and then down the road she does it again, i don't know if i could forgive myself then because that would be my mistake this time for trusting her again. She always takes the easy way out, and if we have kids down the road it would be even worse. Strange situation.

Maybe we will get back in touch months down the road and i guess i will see if she really has changed. I know she is hurting right now which makes me sad of course. At the same time if she goes and finds another **** buddy to get over her pain instead of really concentrating on herself, it will validate my decisions and i will know i made the right choice to leave her. If she stays committed and fixes herself maybe i will grow to love and respect her again someday.

I would suggest she go to SLAA. Drinking for her was just a way to act out/cope. The root of what she needs to work on will be found in SLAA/family of origin

March 4, 2014

Let’s break this down. 2 reasons girls have lots of sex partners in their youth. One is a nympho who just craves sex all the time and the other is for validation and ego boost reasons. Here is why this is a problem; women by nature are wired to have emotional connections and maternal instincts. Sex is their weapon which they hold the key to. Guys can easily have sex for years with no emotional attachments, men and women are different in that regard. If a girl has slept with this many people it’s not the same as for a guy.

Any woman can get laid anytime she wants, all she has to do is put herself out there and there will be plenty of guys who accept her and say anything to get into her pants. There is no work or effort involved on her part; all women are born like this. It’s a lot harder for guys to get laid. A guy cannot just go up to a girl and solicit her for sex. Some people scream it’s a double standard, why should guys be allowed to sleep around but not the women? Because women lose all self-worth when they start sleeping around and get confused after those guys never call them again. In turn they start having negative feelings towards men and become jaded and bitter over time. They keep doing this thinking there will be a nice guy out there for them not even realizing how backwards their approach is. Lots of women have low self esteem, not all of them sleep around. I think most women realize that they can have sex with lots of men without any effort but most dont, for some reason some get so weak that they cant turn anybody down.

The guys are there just for sex, the girl is there for an ego boost to validate that yes I am desirable to men. This backfires very quickly. Lots of women go through this in their teens and early 20’s but it only takes one or more one-night-stand for most women to realize that they have been played and used. It sounds like your ex has not reached that point yet. Once she gets into her 30’s the looks will fade, and she will be forced to stop or slow down with this behavior simply because she is not as attractive anymore.

The problem goes away in a sense but because of nature not because she made that choice. This is chronological behavior for some people, they go to the bars to find a partner (always bad idea) or online dating as you eluded to, again most guys are on there just for quick sex. If she meets 20 guys and sleeps with them right off the bat, 19 of those guys will automatically put her into not-relationship-material category, without the women even realizing this.

You happened to run into this young lady and you actually care about her, problem is that her mind is so warped that she doesn’t realize that she finally has a real relationship and of course doesn’t value you because she is still very insecure with herself.

I agree, she can change. Anybody can change but she needs a radical commitment. Your ex is huge risk at this point, think of it as an investment stock. Her value is low, she has little self-worth and speaking from previous trends she will crash and burn again.

There is a chance she will change, let her figure herself out first. It’s not your job to fix her anymore. In modern western society people don’t take enough responsibility for their actions. She cheated on your, case closed. You could have been the meanest person in the world, if she wants happy she should have broken it off!!! not run towards another guy for more self-validation.

We all know that guys love rebounds, they live for them. If a woman is having relationship issues and starts contacting a guy from her past, she is at her lowest, easiest for her to sleep with that guy because her emotions are all over the place and self esteem low. And that cycle continues.

Send her to therapy, she will need months or even years of it to clear her head and love herself.

Edited March 4, 2014 by fireman81

March 5, 2014

I will suggest SLAA to her.

That’s a great way of putting it; can you elaborate more on why this behavior doesn’t stop with some women? How does it begin in the first place? I am kind of interested in the social aspect now.

March 5, 2014

Ok basically from the early age she has learned that sex is what makes men be with her and sometimes stay with her. She treats it as a commodity; simply she offers sex right away to hook a guy. She doesn’t have any other value and is a one-trick-pony. Some women think that once the men is hooked with sex they can get to know each other, it works sometimes but usually not. She keeps repeating this behavior over and over because that’s all she knows, think of a dog that knows a trick. She fears that if she doesn’t give up sex the guy will leave which in her mind is a negative action towards her. See everything is in reverse; a guy leaving because she won’t sleep with him is a good thing because he is just looking for sex, but she doesn’t see it that way and wants to provide whatever he wants (sex) hoping this will make him happy and love her.

Goes like this; she meets guy at a party. She likes the guy and wants to start something. Guy only wants sex. If she doesn’t give it up he leaves, if she does, he stays until he gets tired of the sex and moves on. She is terrified of the guy leaving because it makes her think she is not good enough and she doesn’t like to be alone. This is a known sociological concept, plenty of data out there to support this.

After many years of this action this woman doesn’t know any other way to catch a man. She thinks that sex is what gets them, and it’s always the easiest way and always works because men are always horny. The men who respond to these advance’s (bars, parties, college games, raves, concerts, you get the picture) are only looking for sexual gratification and nothing more. So they use the woman and then the transaction ends. Woman gets confused and keeps trying again over and over thinking she just hasn’t found Mr. Right yet and he is out there waiting for her. Woman then gets a negative view of males because all she knows is the low end; she never gets a chance to meet someone who wants more than just sex. When she does meet someone (like you) she doesn’t understand the value and assumes you are the same as all men she has interacted in the past, sabotaging herself once again by driving you away.

Now the cheating comes in when things don’t go to her liking. She is so used to getting male attention with sex that it’s too easy to just switch a guy anytime she pleases and sex is just a weapon that she only values for her own gain. She has done this in the past and knows how easy it is to accomplish. Instead of working on the problem she wants to run and just switch up. She justifies this in her mind by telling herself that she is not happy and whoever she is cheating on is not Mr. Right anyway so she doesn’t care for anyone’s feeling but her own. She doesn’t want to work any problems out as the urge to simply get more (temporary) attention from another man is far greater. This is a trait of a serial cheater. Because she has done this so many times prior it becomes muscle memory, not a big deal at all so repeating this is very easy and second nature to her. Cheaters will mask their actions to hide the guilt commonly by abusing drugs and/or alcohol. They justify this by changing their state of mind as an escape and then blaming their behavior on the drugs/alcohol as a cop-out. Remember, for some people love does not equal monogamy.

This behavior is almost identical but reversed with older men (sugar daddies as our society likes to call them) who don’t pay for sex directly but shower the girls with gifts and receive sex in exchange. This is all they know and it’s the easiest way, sex for some kind of indirect monetary reward.

Will this behavior stop? Hard to say, as mentioned depends on her age. As women get older maternal instincts are kicking in and even the promiscuous girls want to settle down but of course at that point it’s that much harder for them to find a suitor. If she hasn’t stopped by her mid 20’s she is going to get a very rude awakening later on in life.

March 14, 2014

Thanks for all the feedback guys, helps to get an outside perspective for sure. We all know it, but always trust your gut feeling no matter how bad it might be. I am still glad I made the decision as I don’t believe this person will be able to dedicate herself to me as much as I did to her (she needs years of professional help). The trust is so far gone it’s not even funny.

I talked to her a few times and it’s pretty emotional for the both of us so I am going to stick with limited contact. She has every excuse in the book and doesn’t get the whole cheating part (or pretends it wasn't that big of a deal), I also found out she was still active on dating websites when we were together. That’s the really painful part even still; everyday it evokes a gut-wrenching feeling that absolutely kills me inside. Betrayal by someone you cared about this much about is pretty rough and just something that will probably stay with me for a very long time if not forever. At the end of the day no matter how amazing a person is (and she was very special), if you’re always wondering whether or not they will cheat on you in some form it’s not worth it and its time to find someone who won’t lie and cheat.

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