Friendship is possible

[Bittersweetie]

Sometimes any kind of connection is really hard to make for some people. I'm someone who finds it very very hard. I do not attach to many people at all, really only a handful of real connections my whole life.. To me it makes no sense NOT to keep it close once it's there.

 

Layla,

This is me. I don't make many connections either. And I hung on to the idea of my xOM for so so long because of this very fact. I thought, there are so few people I connect with, that in itself makes him special! I How can I let that go? But now, I realize that I am better off without him. If you hold on to this idea of "connection" then you will be holding on to your A....which is unhealthy for you and your marriage. I'd suggest investing your energies and feelings into healthier avenues.

 

Also, don't you have a connection with your spouse? Shouldn't that be the priority?

[janedoe67]

A WS who insists on maintaining a friendship post A is selfish. A BS who is okay with it is a fool.

[Realist3]

It wasn't. But it was in the beginning and can be again. I'm not nurturing a private relationship with him, and I never will again, but as a family, as a group we will all remain friends.

If we hadn't had the affair us hanging out alone would have been completely acceptable I believe, the way our family is together.. But we do realize we crossed a line we shouldn't have and that now we need to be very aware of boundaries

 

I think people assume I mean me and him will still hang out alone or text or talk about feelings and that's not the kind of friendship I mean at all. That's gone, and I'll miss it but it was necessary.

 

 

As long as there is no private relationship I think you can be causal friends. Once it turns private you are back in an EA.

[Owl]

As long as there is no private relationship I think you can be causal friends. Once it turns private you are back in an EA.

 

The 'issue' with this is that it remains a "private relationship" because no d-day took place, and their spouses weren't included in the full relationship to begin with. It REMAINS a "private relationship" for as long as they will hide aspects of it from their spouses.

 

And that's why these types of friendships remain a risk to the marriage. ESPECIALLY if the BS remains unaware of the full extent of the affair.

 

It CAN be done, although it's often very difficult to do for most people. It's usually tremendously difficult to 'throttle back' on the communication voluntarily. You typically don't stop feeling what you've felt for someone...you just stop communicating about it. And that bottles up, and most often explodes again in a resumption of the affair in some fashion later. Not always, as some will not...but often.

 

The only real way to truly END the affair is by engaging both spouses, bringing the truth out in the open, and prevent a recurrence again by establishing REAL NC.

 

OP, I do wish you luck. You might pull it off. There are exceptions for every rule.

[Realist3]

I understand all of that.

 

The A was the private relationship. The way she is describing this it is more or less just being cordial when they around other people. Sure the risks remain high of the resumption of the A, but from her description of the situation it could work.

[jwi71]

I think people assume I mean me and him will still hang out alone or text or talk about feelings and that's not the kind of friendship I mean at all. That's gone, and I'll miss it but it was necessary.

You can't talk or text or be alone together...what kind of friendship is that?

And the time you do spend together - is in the company of others - a forced chaperone if you will.

 

Sorry, sounds like a dead friendship - and a dead marriage - to me.

 

How sad one chooses to live like that.

[lynn1954]

Maybe if this thread had been titled "Civility is possible" or "Maintaining an acquaintance is possible" or "Social interaction is possible" that might've been closer to what Layla meant to say.

 

 

If one's affair was with a co-worker and it's not possible to change jobs, if one's affair was with a family member's spouse, if one's affair was within a social circle of friends who interact more like family, then it may be impossible to avoid seeing and interacting with the former AP.

 

 

In that case, one may choose or need to characterize the post-affair relationship as "friendship". It all depends on how each of you express that friendship.

 

 

Continuing to meet or email or text, continuing to connect on a deep emotional level may be inappropriate. But being able to speak to each other when paths cross or work events or social events require it could be appropriate and could be called "friendship" by some, but the dependency or emotional connection is controlled and appropriate.

[gettingstronger]

Probably too soon to claim victory here, but I give you credit on at least trying.

[whichwayisup]

In my situation we own a business as a group. We work together daily, our lives and families are very intertwined. Nobody but the two of us know about the affair and we both felt equally guilty and wanted to end it. No contact isn't even a little bit possible without confession.

But we have had no private contact in over a month and for us, that's huge. And it's only getting easier.

 

So you don't (I hope) let yourself 'think' of him, fantasize or remember him in the affair setting? Platonic thoughts only? No long gazes or major eye contact feeling a connection when you are around him? If you can, be 100% be honest with yourself...

Edited March 4, 2014 by whichwayisup

[herself]

Ms. Layla offering a hug and the assurance I am where you are with hoping and wanting to believe I can salvage my friendship after an EA.

The thing is we took a solid 2 months solid NC after we ended fairly mutually abruptly,.also no dday.

The one comment by one of the posters I could not deny was that perhaps it was in the bargaining stage. Yes....it hurts to admit but its a big part of it.

 

Basically after light contact in the last few weeks we stay on plain vanilla safe surface conversation but I notice I am stirred up a bit emotionally & I was really healing from those anxious feelings when we didnt speak. Its way too soon still.

 

I asked today if we could still stay friends, but from afar.

Meaning....we made peace, we became civil and kind & polite but that built in distance is safer and healthy now.

 

It feels very final for you right now to think of never being friends again, so just think for now...you cant. As dutiful and tough as it seems now...you gotta reconnect with you first, then your marriage. I know this hurts as so much of our hearts & thoughts were tied to them joyfully. I was a WRECK, and almost felt i didnt care if life ended.

BUT I feel really really good for now. I feel Ive grieved, felt sad, felt anger, remorse & I will for awhile feel the weight of my mistakes as I should.....but sweet Layla as cliche as it sounds you need YOU back. You need to be your own best friend right now.

 

It doesn't have to be forever but give it room ro die now, let him go for now, may be. Not forever but for a good while & see where you stand.

 

Its gonna be ok, and I don't knock.you at all, Im here for support. Your question is valid, just nnot. Right this moment.

 

Hugs. Im sorry its hard.

[LaylaSings]

You can't talk or text or be alone together...what kind of friendship is that?

And the time you do spend together - is in the company of others - a forced chaperone if you will.

 

Sorry, sounds like a dead friendship - and a dead marriage - to me.

 

How sad one chooses to live like that.

 

You may be confused about my situation. There is nothing sad about it. We all go to the beach together, movies, vacation, suppers.. We work together. We are all friends. Me and him texted and met privately for a year on top of that friendship.

 

There was no DDay and we both recognized the affair was wrong and ended the affair.. Which would be any type of contact that we would not do or say in front of our spouses. We have not broken that.

 

We all still hang out but it's been less often for a variety of reasons the last couple weeks and the breaks been good.

I feel strong.

[LaylaSings]

Probably too soon to claim victory here, but I give you credit on at least trying.

 

I was just thinking that. I'm having a good day so talk is easy I guess.

[LaylaSings]

So you don't (I hope) let yourself 'think' of him, fantasize or remember him in the affair setting? Platonic thoughts only? No long gazes or major eye contact feeling a connection when you are around him? If you can, be 100% be honest with yourself...

 

Absolutely not. I'm working on it though.

[whichwayisup]

Absolutely not. I'm working on it though.

 

That's good.

 

One suggestion? Reach out to other friends, and families. Kids should have a variety of friends and because you two had an A, detaching and not spending so much time together might benefit you all in the long run. How old are all the kids in this situation?

[LaylaSings]

That's good.

 

One suggestion? Reach out to other friends, and families. Kids should have a variety of friends and because you two had an A, detaching and not spending so much time together might benefit you all in the long run. How old are all the kids in this situation?

 

We are close to other families too just not in the same way. My kids are fine though, and have a variety of adults and other friends that are great and we are not only attached to one family. I'm not about to get into their ages, but they are young and not negatively affected by this affair but I am well aware of the huge risk we took and that's why it's been ended.

We both connected a lot just where our kids were concerned and we love each other's as our own.

[Hope Shimmers]

Layla,

 

Yes, it can be done. I did it.

 

It took me (literally) years, though, to get to the place that I could be "just" friends with him without a lot of painful memories, anger, and other emotions that really were undesirable. I know where you're at - I can tell from your posts and I remember being there. For me, thinking about NO contact with him - NO friendship - put me literally in a panic. We had been friends for years before the A.

 

What I ultimately learned (and you will too, if you go this route and manage not to fall back into the A -which by the way is a real risk if you stay in contact) - is that it just takes more out of you than you can afford to lose in order to maintain "just" friends with this person whom you love. It wasn't worth it - and I am not even married! You are married, and you need to invest that energy into your marriage - either nurturing it or ending it.

 

The fact is that by the time you get to the point where you can "really" be friends, and nothing else, with him, it requires you to stop caring in the way that you care now. And by the time you get there, then you don't really care if you remain friends or not. Believe me - that's where I am at now. I stopped the 'low contact' we had been having, because it just didn't matter anymore and it caused more grief than it was worth.

 

Although it was the most important thing to me in the world at the time - to remain "friends" - I would not do it again. It wasn't worth it and it took too much out of me to get there. And my reasons for wanting it were wrong. And your reasons are wrong too - I'm sorry, but they are.

[PurpleCardigan]

We are close to other families too just not in the same way. My kids are fine though, and have a variety of adults and other friends that are great and we are not only attached to one family. I'm not about to get into their ages, but they are young and not negatively affected by this affair but I am well aware of the huge risk we took and that's why it's been ended.

We both connected a lot just where our kids were concerned and we love each other's as our own.

 

LaylaSings, you seem to have it all sorted out and I hope it works for you! It would be nice to see a success story (yours!) on friends after an affair. I wonder if because you mutually decided to end it makes a difference. That there isn't one person who wants one thing, and the other wants another. My ex wants a friendship and it wasn't working so we went NC. But I'm single, he's married and it was not a mutual ending. I think, now, that ending was right for both of us but I still hurt. I have a work colleague (long time divorced) who has remained friends with her married ex-boyfriend. He's been separated then back together with his wife probably a dozen times but their dating/affair relationship never started back up. They, too, were a mutual ending to their relationship.

 

 

Please let us know how this works out for you!

[whichwayisup]

We are close to other families too just not in the same way. My kids are fine though, and have a variety of adults and other friends that are great and we are not only attached to one family. I'm not about to get into their ages, but they are young and not negatively affected by this affair but I am well aware of the huge risk we took and that's why it's been ended.

We both connected a lot just where our kids were concerned and we love each other's as our own.

 

Kids ages meaning, are they able to make plans on their own and get together or does it include always having the adults involved and/or around. My point is, you don't have to spend so much time with them (not sure if it's daily contact, weekly or once every few weeks) and can get busier with your other friends, slowly over time. Obviously changing things up too fast will make your spouses suspicious.

[veritas lux mea]

Civility is possible. And friendship maybe but I don't think it is healthy for your own sake. Lies, betrayal, and deceit carry a price. And if it stays a secret the price is often your internal well being. Giving up the chance to be whole again so to speak. Basicaly, by cheating and then covering up you are already accepting a heavy burden for the rest of your life. Adding continued contact with the man you love and connect with is yet another heavy burden to carry. I fear for your well being. Be sure to look out for your mental health because you have a lifelong journey of pain ahead of you on the course you have set. Possible, yes. Painful, definetly!

[Anne Boleyn]

You can remain friends after an affair. I fully believe it.

I'm not saying it's easy and it's definitely painful at times.

 

We didn't have a DDay and it ended fairly mutually..

Does anyone have success stories?

 

We tried being friends, but you know, it didn't work for us. It was an all or nothing sort of situation, no area in between. And even then, it wasn't so much all or nothing as it was just... All. We couldn't do the nothing.

 

I'm sure it's possible to be just friends after a relationship. People are friends with ex's fairly regularly. I think it all depends on the people involved and their dynamic.

[LaylaSings]

Honestly, people saying there is no good reason to remain friends just dont know the situation. I am aware it will take self control and that it will cause some hurt in the beginning but I think it will be worth it in the long run.

 

There was no DDay. The affair ending was mutual.

 

In the last five years a lot has happened including a murder suicide of a family member and close friend I don't want to get to much into but my AP helped me through that in a way only he could because he had been through something similar and was also really close to both people involved.

What we have together is not just about sex, it wasn't even about romance as much as it was just a friendship that got too intimate and too deep for both of us, neither of us had ever experienced it before and we thought we were in love we thought a lot of things.. We magnified our marriage issues in our minds and felt like we were meant to be together.. We both woke up. We know it was wrong.

Traumatic events altered what probably would have only been a close friendship.

I'll love him forever but I'm content being his friend only. As a group.

This also isn't the case of people who can just slowly stop hanging out.. We share a yard. We spend meals together more than 4 times a week, I take care of their children, he works with my husband daily, we are completely intertwined.

 

Our kids are all young, only one is even school age. If that's still a fact you think matters.

[lynn1954]

Hi, again, Layla:

 

 

If we go back to why you wrote and posted your original message: were you trying to offer hope to others? Were you trying to just express your own feelings and your hope for your own future? Were you trying to get approval and support for your choice, or find other OWs who were able to do it?

 

 

Despite good intentions, you may be describing an option that works well for your situation, and could apply to a few other OW, but doesn't really apply to most other OWs.

 

 

You don't need to defend your situation to the rest of us, or explain all the details trying to gain agreement and approval, it's okay because it works for you.

 

 

Your original point of "friendship is possible" generated a lot of disagreement and warnings to you and warnings to other OW because trying to stay friends is often not the best choice for most OW, and trying to do so causes a lot of problems.

 

 

Your situation is not 100% unique, but I'd say it's different from the majority of OWs here, so your original point of "friendship is possible" generated a lot of disagreement and warnings to you and warnings to other OW because trying to stay friends is often not the best choice for most OW, and trying to do so causes a lot of problems.

 

 

If an OW's situation allows No Contact, many people would agree that is probably best. Second best would be very limited contact and very superficial interaction, basic civility.

 

 

By your own description, you both realized that the affair was wrong and you're trying to make up for your mistake and move on within a situation that's much more entwined than most other OW.

 

 

You don't really need approval or agreement from us on the forum.

 

 

For myself, I do have good wishes for you and all the people in the situation for a happy and fulfilling outcome by overcoming a mistake that was made.

[TaraMaiden]

This is a postful of good points, OP:

 

You have decided to end the affair, but you are, by circumstances, placed in a position where continued contact is unavoidable.

you are therefore resigned to being forced to engage with your ex AP on a completely different level - one of 'friendship' because it's the only way you see of being able to re-establish any form of normality or stability in your respective situations.

 

so no, Friendship, in your case, is not 'possible'; Friendship, in your case, is your sole avenue; but it has been forced, by circumstances, and it's not really what you'd want to be doing, ideally.

 

Friendship, between ex-lovers, whatever the circumstances of their previous connection, should be avoided at all costs, until emotions have reached a level where both exes can be in each others' company, with no clinging, wistful, nostalgic or emotional attachment to what they once had.

[Owl]

This is a postful of good points, OP:

 

You have decided to end the affair, but you are, by circumstances, placed in a position where continued contact is unavoidable.you are therefore resigned to being forced to engage with your ex AP on a completely different level - one of 'friendship' because it's the only way you see of being able to re-establish any form of normality or stability in your respective situations.

 

so no, Friendship, in your case, is not 'possible'; Friendship, in your case, is your sole avenue; but it has been forced, by circumstances, and it's not really what you'd want to be doing, ideally.

 

Friendship, between ex-lovers, whatever the circumstances of their previous connection, should be avoided at all costs, until emotions have reached a level where both exes can be in each others' company, with no clinging, wistful, nostalgic or emotional attachment to what they once had.

 

This isn't an entirely correct assessment.

 

NC isn't possible...without revealing the affair to both of the other spouses, and dealing with the outcome and ramifications of it.

 

NC is possible...it's simply not the path that either affair partner desires at this point. If they chose to reveal the truth to their significant others...I would suspect that NC would become possible in some fashion.

 

Friendship is possible in this case...by maintaining the lie by omission under which the affair flourished to begin with.

 

The question as to whether CONTINUED friendship...without resuming the affair...is possible or not will only be determined by time.

 

One last thought...I'd heartily suspect that the friendship would NOT be possible had d-day occurred.

[LaylaSings]

Oh you are absolutely correct that had a DDay occurred things would be very different.

 

I think had either of us 'dumped' the other.. Things would be very different. Or if one of us was single.

 

Friendship is possible in situations where people were in an affair, or had a sexual relationship that they then ended, that's all I am getting at. It's not likely to be easy, but with time, self control, and patience I do think we'll be able to do it.