My dilemna, am I an as* or is she a Bi*ch? LONG!

[imokurnot]

Hi everyone my story is a couple months old. My 7 yr girlfriend cheated on me and left me for a guy that happens to be her bestfriends cousin. We are basically over but remain friends, kind of. We talk once or twice a week and are nice to eachother. Well Monday she comses over and we have a good time just playing around. She leaves to go to get her taxes done and calls me from the cell phone and tells me, "I want to tell you something and you cannot change my mind so dont try to. I am pregnant". She tells me she had a test at the end of Novemeber that was a blood test from the doctor and she was NOT pregnant. So at that point we had been broken up. We were together for one weekend (2 nights) in early Decmber (4th and 5th). So I am very supportive and she tells me she is to get an abortion. I cannot talk her out of it and don't really try very hard. She had found out Sunday and she is already in a fight with her new bf about something and not speaking with him.

 

I offer right away to pay for half. In my mind the chances of it being mine are small and half is a good offer as well as orreering my ear, shoulder and whatever else she needs to support her emotionally. She calls me back after she has made an apptment w/planned parenthood or whatever and tells me Friday (yesterday) she will have an ultrasound and that will tell hert the conception date or close to it anyway. I am thinking about her health and the different procedures she would be subjected to if it were an early term or late term abortion and thinking nothing of conception date while I am on the phone with her. I offer once again "anything you need let me know". I got of f the phone and going over the conversation in my head I realize (or think) she was thinking of me when she said friday they would tell her the date of conception 9roughly). She was thinking I may be ruled out of the possibility that I am the father. Her boyfriend can never be ruled out and I know this in my mind. So I call her back and get her voicemail. I wanted her to know I am there for her no matter what. So I tell her vm that "hey i know you said Friday that we will know the date of conception give or take a week, and although the chances of me being the father are remote, I want you to know I will support you no matter what" "financially, emotionally whatever, no matter what."

 

I get a call back and she is livid that I had mentioned that the chances of me being the father were slim or remote. I am selfish and truying to get out of paying half etc. etc. I was not trying to get out of it or I wouldn't have said "no matter what I want to help and support you through this." I am told that her boyfriend and I both think our feelings should be heard and she is tired of it. (I never asked for my feelings to be heard?). That we are only thinking of ourselves and don't we know that she knows of our feelings already and can't we be more supportive etc. etc. and put ourselves in her shoes! I am told "Do you know what .... offered? He offered to pay the whole thing". I said of course he did he cannot be ruled out of being the father and he is your boyfiriend. If you were with me 2 nights of the 2 week window that leaves 12 nights that you could have been with him. Say you were with him 8 of the 12. My chances at that point are 25% and that is if it falls into that 2 week window which is out of 12 weeks or so. So I am made out to be the bad guy because he offered to pay more? I am told I am thinking of my feelings when it is obvious that he is the one that did that not me? Someone help me out here and tell me what she is doing? Was she projecting his behavior on to me because she chose him and has to feel that we both are acting the same way and both are wrong? Like she is justifying her decision to be with him and doesn't want to think about maybe she made a mistake? Finally we get through this and have a pizza together on Tuesday night and as of Thursday she is thanking me profusely for my support financially, but more importantly emotionally she says. So Thurday ends with nothing but praise for me after I had make her realize I was there for her. I also find out the whole thing will be performed on Friday now. I originally thought it was a two step process i was wrong.

 

Oh yeah I offered to marry her and have no test done and raise the baby as my own. I also offered to rase it myself if she didn't want to go throught the procedure and we tested it and found it to be mine. I offered to pay child support if she married the other giy and we found it to be mine. I offered to help her financially through term and up to a formal adoption was complete if she chose that route. I offered everything i could think of as a possibility.

 

So anyway Friday comes and I had asked to go with her a few times on wednesday and Thursday. I say it in a way presuming he is going with her. I am told her friend ...(girls name) is going and it's ok, she knows I care and thanks me for being so supportive. Friday I text message her friend (the girl) and she didn't go because she didn't get the vacation day she put in for (true hard company and they wait till last minute if it is a request) so the boyfriend is now with her. The friend says she had to get someone to go because other than him it would have been the friends dad that would have had to go and that wouldn't be fun. So this clown wasnt even slated to go until the last minute. He wasn't interested enough to go I guess which to me is dissrespectful and rude. This coupled with him fighting her for two days after she is found to be pregnant is too uch for me I have to think he is an a-hole. Anyway I get a call from her friend a half hour later and she is ok. I say great news thanks. I text message my ex and say I hear she is ok and would love to hear her in her onwn voice tell me that she is ok. I get a call from her and she tells me she is fine and in case I am interested the baby was 12 1/2 weeks. I am driving my car and have no idea where 12 1/2 weeks puts us. She says I have to go, meaning her boyfriend is there or coming. I get off the call and look at my calender and we were still together Oct 26th. We were together into early November. So the other test was wrong and the chances of it being mine are now very good. She was cheating with this giy so he is still a possibility but chances are it is mine. So I am livid now.

 

First of all she knew exactly where 12 1/2 weeks put it and knew I was going to look it up and call her back. She didn't answer the call because..... she was with him. So this jerk that broke up a 7 yr relationship, that fought with her for 2 days after she was found to be pregnannt, that wasn't initially going to the procedure with her on Friday is with her and she can't talk to me about what just happened to "our" baby? Because she is worried about her relationship with him? She was also in a fight with him the saturday before she found out as well. I talked to her and she cried on the phone and said people dissapointed her and someone let her down. It was later determined it was him but not verbalized. So he fought with her before and had dissapointed her, and then fought for 2 days when she was distraught and found to be pregnant, then wasn't even going to the procedure with her at all until he had to, and she can't talk to me about the situation and in fact told me the number of weeks knowing it was likely mine and didn't discuss or even mention that fact on the phone. She said "I'll call you later".

 

So I got mad, I called a few times and said hey, that makes it mine, please talk to me, lets talk I am hurting right now. No call back and finally at 10 pm she calls I don't answer becaus I am upset and if we talk i would upset her and I didn't think that would be fair after all she had been through in the day. Today she calls and lays into me for not picking up her call. Then I start to think, I didn't get to have a say in this at all. Her new boyfriend and her decided to terminate my baby without so much as any imput from me. Not only that but she wasn't even going to tell me about it, only she finally decided it was the right thing to do. Why? probably because the likelihood of it being mine were small. Yes the same reason I gave half and the same thing I happened to say that I got screamed at and called every name in the book. So I call again and get a little more upset and ask that she call me because I would like to talk to her in person about what just happened. I am calm and cool and I send voice message with read receipt. She gets the message at 11:30 and I wait and wait. 1:30 I call her and I am getting pissed off now. I say 2 hours after a message that I leave for her and I was crying because of the situation she can't even call me back 2 hours after she heard how hurt and upset I was on the message? I start gettting really mad and thinking about how this guy was dissrespecting her and she still can't talk to me about our baby and what has occured because of her relationship? I finally call her friend and tell her to have my ex check her vm because i had been leaving mean messages on there (i didn't say that, just asked that she have her check the vm) My ex calls and they are at the hospital with her friends grandfather he is gravely ill and I am an asho** for calling them and she never wants to tlka to me again and all I ever do is think of myself. How was I supposed to know she was at the hospital and the grandfather was ill? Is it wrong for me to think after what we went through the day before that she respond to my voicemail and tell me something like, hey, I agree we need to talk and you deserve that, but I am w/friend at hospital and now is not good. how about later tonight I need to be here for my friend. etc. Is that too much to ask? It was 5 hours after I left the message before I got a hold of her. So she had 5 hours to call me or text me or something. So am I an ass?

 

I just have it in my mind that her and her boyfriend decided the fate of my child and I have been ignored and made to feel like an ass. It is her body and her decision but once we found out the likelihood being that it was hers and mine "ours", don't I deserve at least a few minutes to experess my feelings about the whole thing? Am I wrong to be upset that her new boyfriend is the only reason she couldn't discuss the situation with me and in fact told me the weeks and didn't mention that I was the likely father so as to not have to discuss it with me in front of her boyfriend for fear of hurting her relationship with him? Now she won't even return my calls and I have threatened to tell her mom what has happened. Her mom is controlling and even though my ex is 31 her mom is strong and powerful and dominates her. I left too many messages and was angry, yes. I did say i won't tell her mom finally but still no response. Am I an ass? or am I getting scre*ed here and she should definately show enough respect and talk to me about this? He gets made out to be a good guy even though he has dissresopected her throughh out and I am the bad guy that offered everything I possibly could think of. He fought her after they found out for 2 days and he was expressing his dissatisfaction about the whole thing even when the likelihood was pretty great that he was the father. Thursday night she said I was awesome and thanked me for my support and said she loved me. Now tonight I am a jerk and have been nothing but an a-hole throught this whole thing and selfish through out and only think of my felings and she never wants to here from me again. Arrrrg!

 

Anyone? Buhler, Buhler? Opinions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Condolences?

[ttjames]

Women! They don't make sense. She's not thinking about what happened. She's thinking about the last feeling that you caused her to feel. And that's it.

 

Of course it doesn't make sense. And can you bring her around to see what really happened and how you should have had some say in this, NO. Not with out a long explanation, which she probably wouldn't sit through.

[imokurnot]

Exactyl right. If I try, which I have been in voicemails, I am insensitive to her feelings. I somehow can minimize her feelings or I invalidate her feelings but mine, I guess mine don't count. You hit it on the head when you said she probably won't sit through a long explanation. She always asked me my feelings on something and listened to 2 words and got defensive and would walk out of the house telling me "You don't get it and you never will". I would sit patiently and ask nicely, "Ok maybe I don't get it, but I owuld like to. Could you please explain to me so I can understand you and how you feel on this subject. It is important to me that I understand you." She would tell me, "It doesn't matter, why should I even try. You won't get it anyway". Then walk out of the room and be mnad at me for days. That is what I am supposed to do is askin a nice way for her to explain so I can understand her. After a couple years of this I gave up. So then I am the biggest jerk in the world and neglect her....?

 

She told me she found someone that treats her like she deserves, like a queen. I said, "I tried to treat you like a queen and did so for over 2 1/2 - 3 yrs of the 7 yr relationship." "But everytime I knelt at your thrown your majesty would smash bricks over my head and there was no way i could keep doing that under those conditions indefinately." She has already told me lately, "he does some things and I think to myself, YOU (me) would never do that to me." or "I always put so much into people and they let me down, I am so dissapointedin people, why do I have to always be let down!" she said that last Saturday as she wept on the phone with me. I guess he has a low threshold for pain when it came to bricks about the head and gave up after only 2 months. LOL I told her nobody would put up with the crap she pulled on me for as long as I did and I was a pretty good b/f. I think she was seeing it until I went ballistic today over her not talking to me about "our" pregnancy and it's termination.

 

 

How can you have an abortion and not talk about it with the person that you conceived the baby with. She has told me it is hard to see me because she still loves me so much it hurts her. This may fall under that category and she did say on Thursday, crying hard when she said it, that she always pictured her and I having a baby and a family so this is hurting her. Maybe even more-so once she found out it was ours and she knows what she has thrown away. She says it hurts her and she cries when alone knowing everything she has thrown away. Maybe I should be more sensitive and think that she can't discuss it with me because the pain is so great. But don't you think she should just tell me that instead of me having to run every scenario through my mind? Obviously I am going to have some pretty horrible scenarios that i am going to get upset with even if I eventually could figure out the correct meaning to her actions. Just communicate with me is all I ever asked of her, she is horrible at it. I mean the worst person as far as communication goes I have ever met, man or woman.

[upsetnhurt]

Imokurnot,

 

You seem convinced that this was your baby. What makes you think that because you were with her during that timeframe that she wasnt with someone else as well? I totally sympathize with the ordeal that your ex has put you through. You deserved better and will find it at one point in the future. Why do you still want this woman when it sounds as if she put you through hell and continues to do so? Why do you continue to call her and leave messages when she doesn't seem to want to put the same effort into it? It is easier said than done I know as I can't get over an ex of mine as well. I hope for all of our sakes that good things happen to all of us. Good luck.

[imokurnot]

That it was my baby. At this point she was basically living with me and even if she was with someone else the times she would have been afforded the luxury of having sex would have been minimal. She may have called in sick to work a couple times but that was about the only way she could have had the opportunity to have sex with this other guy. If it were 2 weeks later i would say it was his but the timing of this gives me a good indication that it was mine. Believe me all week I was under the impression it was his and I was fine all week. I lost it when I found out the timeframe involved. In no way am I wishing or happy to have found out that it was mine. This was much easier to handle when I assumed it was his.

 

As to your other questions, I guess like everyone else here, I think she is the one. That is wrong to believe and I know that. This past week however she showed me some good things and I think she really was starting to see that she made a mistake. 7 yrs without dating anyone else is going to make you curious and especially if we had become stagnant. I guess I feel that she was 24 when we met and dated through her 31 st birthday and I can excuse her curiosity and I truly believe she will see things for what they are and understand what we had was special. Will it be easy? NO. I don't live my life for her or wait in any way. This episode brought back a lot of hurt and emotional stuff I hadn't been dealing with or feeling for a few weeks now. It is to be expected under the circumstances I guess. I blew up yesterday because I had seen so many positive signs and we were treating each other very well and respectfully. When she decided to disrespect me yesterday as well as Friday night it was a shock to my system i think. I called and left messages because I couldn't come to grips with the fact she could be so dissrespectful to me again. I didn't want to believe it and I just wanted her to call and tell me it's ok and she will call later and we can discuss things. I tried like hell to give her the opportunity to show me she cared and that she was truthful all week when she said she loved me. I wasn't prepared to face the truth that she doesn't care about anyone but herself. It hurt all over again to see that for the truth, but I have once again and it does suck. I will be fine but it was a setback.

 

She had made a point all week of telling me she loved me. I mean she told me and would say it so sincerely and when I asked why she was telling me that way she would tell me, "Because I want you to know it is the truth and I think you have doubted it for a while. I do love you **** and you need to know that". So when she displayed this behavior I made excuses for her and wanted to give her a chance to explain her actions. I would have eaten up anything she told me as well. Because my fantasy would be protected if I just believed what ever excuse she could come up with. That is pretty sad, I mean to know that I would likely take any excuse she offered as the truth and hang on a little longer, and she couldn't even be bothered to make up an excuse. It was too much work for her to even talk to me for 5 minutes knowing that I would be happy and move forward. That she cares that little hurts a lot. She starts to see the thngs she does later. L:ike this week I tell her things she had done or said and she cries and tells me she can't believe she did that or said that to me. She gets so mad that she loses all sense of reality. Her counselor tpold her she is the emotional equivelant of a 12 yr old. My daughter is 13 so I should know how to handle her but she is immature for a 12 yr old at times.

 

I gues the bottom line is in the last 16 years I have had 2 relationships. 1 with my ex-wife and this one with my ex. I am now 39 yrs old and never have lacked for confidence but this is hard to swallow. I had planned on marrying this person and raising a family together and then to get destroyed like this is hard on my ego and hard on my heart. We never tried anything and that is what makes me the maddest. We never went to counseling and I had asked her to take me to hers when she was ready. She agreed that she would and never did. I asked over and over. Now she says she is seeing that a lot of our problems were just misunderstandings that we never communicated on. I had told her this for months now and that we needed a mediator or counselor because she took everything the worng way. We loved each other but she had a problem accepting my love and questioned it constantly. She, in my opinion, didn't feel worthy of the love I showed her and had to find things I was doig wrong. She thought I was cheating and would look through my computer for hours at a time. There was nothing there, I never would cheat on anyone. That would be wrong and I would not be a good person and I couldn't live with myself if I cheated. It had very little to do with her or any other person that I may be in a relationship with, it is for myself. I have to be true to myself and if I cheated and hurt someone how could I be happy with myself? She up until about 2 weeks ago told me she knows I cheated etc. Now she sees that I never did. Stuff like that she wouldn't allow me to love her and if I did she thought it was too good to be true.

 

weird, I know.........I am pretty hurt today though and I know she doesn't deserve me or my love. I just don't know how to move forward and give up on her and us completely. I don't know that I can or will ever be able to. There is just so much potential and we never really tried at all. How can you move on when the issues are so easily repairable and all you have to do is try. If we were not compatible or had character traits that one or the other couldn't get past that's one thing, but we don't. We have fun when we are together and have the same goals, hearts, beliefs, everything. We have different hobbies and likes and dislikes but nothing that is a deal breaker at all. It's just such a waste of 7 yrs of our adult lives it disgusts me to no end.

[upsetnhurt]

I agree with you in that it is so easy to try to fix things between two people. I am sitting here as well hoping for the same thing. But I am realizing that you can't try if both people are not prepared to give it 100%. You are bound to lose. I have taken a different stance and had NC with my ex praying that she would realize her loss yet we both will face the same conclusion. The ex's just don't feel the way we want them to feel. It sucks and we all are feeling crappy yet we are good people who deserve better. Focus your attention on someone who can give you all you want. Imokurnot, don't you think she would realize her loss more if you would show her that she now means zero to you..................

[imokurnot]

My ex has given me a lot of good feedback trhis past week. I got a card in the mail from here and things like that. I know the difference betweeen her not loving me and her being confused and not knowing what to do and just kind of going with the flow. I was divorced from 2 marriages to another woman (same person both times) and I knew when she said it was over, it was over. I looked in her eyes and saw she didn't have the same feelings for me that she had at one time. I said ok, and we made agreements on the child support etc. Oh I cried, and cried a lot. But I read people well (sales rep) and I knew that no matter what I did her feelings were gone at that point and there was nothing I could do to bring them back. That is not the case here. If I ever saw that it was or that her feelings were gone I would do the same as I did in the divorce situations, that is walk away. Walk away hurt, but walk away none-the-less. We all know or should know our significant other well enough to know if they are saying what the feel or saying what they want to feel. My ex says now she was wrong because she thought there was no hope for us and now she knows that she was wrong in that. She now realizes she didn't try as hard as she thought she had to work on us (she didn't try at all). Now she says it wasn't all my fault and sees her role in the whole debacle as well. 2 months ago I was an a-hole and it was all my fault etc. etc.

 

I guess what I am saying is, I have yet to hear of a NC situation that has brought a couple back together and they have been happy the second time and it has worked out for an extended period. I have heard of people keeping contact and pursuing the other person or just being around to support and be a friend to the SO, that have worked out and been long term success stories. If NC couples get a second chance it is based on missing the other person or jealousy or some other emotion that is unsustainable and thus the relationship is also unsustainable. I will go NC when I see the light in her eyes go dim. She doesn't show a whole lot through her actions but it has picked up lately. Well that was before yesterday and my blow-up. I still haven't heard many opinions on whether I was wrong or she was wrong not to talk to me about our baby and subsequent abortion.

 

I think I figured out why I got so upset though. I think it was because I was led to believe that it was not mine. That the chances of it being mine were very very remote. So when I found out it was likely my babyI had no time to digest that and go trough the emotions that were attached to it. There wasn't a whole week to prepare myself mentally (subconsciously) that on Friday it would be terminated. That time was goiven to her and her new boyfroiend but I had no time and in fact learned it was mine (likely mine) after it was terminated. Then nobody would talk to me about it. I was asked not to tell anyone so here I am finding out it was mine, after the termination and have not a s oul to talk to about it. When I tried to contact her she ignored me (still is). I have to understand her side as well that she probably doesn't want to go through talking to me about it and it hurts her if she would have to do so. But to ignore me and not even let me know why she is ignoring me isn't right.

 

I have read your thread and I am sorry for your situation. I truly hope it works out for you. Whether that is moving on or working it out eventually with the ex, whatever makes you the happiest in the long run. Not necessarily what either of us think we may want right now, but what truly brings long term fulfillment and sustained happiness to us both. That is what we all deserve.

[upsetnhurt]

imokurnot,

 

I did not realize that she had started to respond favorably to you in the recent past. Means that you are doing something right here. You had every right to dig your heels into her for her lack of respect shown to you regarding her potential pregnancy and eventual termination of it. Don't give in too much as she owes you an explanation. Thanks for your feedback on my situation too on my thread. I agree with you that NC probably won't work for me yet I never wanted my actions (if they were to fight for her) to resemble the actions of her previous ex (and maybe now current bf) which I so very much disapproved of. Best of luck.

[imokurnot]

I think NC is to get over and past someone. Contact is if you wanna try again. NC may work in the end and will definately allow you to keep your pride, but in the long run if she does call or initiate contact is it for the right reasons? I have heard success stories where the person really kept trying hard and never gave up. I haven't heard many that NC led to a long term successful relationship however. I am sure there are some but I haven't heard of many. I am like this in anything though, I never give up or give in. My friends keep telling me it isn't a sport, I can quit and there is nothing wrong with that. I can't quit, especially on this one at this time.

[upsetnhurt]

Imokurnot,

 

What then is the definition of stalking? If a woman says that she wants to move and does not initiate contact, then wouldn't my every attempt to touch base with her be considered stalking. What would make my actions any different that her previous ex's who pured paint thinner and glued door locks...........

[imokurnot]

Well if she is serious it would be stalking. Your behavior would differ from ex's because there would be no physical damage to anything or anyone. If you just start out by sending a card or something I doubt she would go so far as to threaten you with filing a harrassment report, would she? If she does and never did to him in your case with the car and all that, then you know it is definately time to move on. If she treats you any different than she did him when the roles were reversed, screw her move on because she always was still in love with the ex and was using you. As mean as that sounds it is the truth. We don't know that she will treat you any different so it doesn't matter anyway at this point.

 

In my case the police called and said she filed a report. She did this to help her get over me she later told me. She told me "A restraining order would also mean I can't contact you either Drew". LOL I kept a log after she started threatening the restraining order. I went to the police and filed reports and when she filed a report (after we got in a fight over something stupid) they had to call her in and ask her how the night before she had called me to make her dinner and come over, then the next day file a harassment report? They asked her how she could have borrowed $300 2 days prior to filing a report on me? They were pretty upset that she would waste their time and not be an adult. Well needless to say we got poast that episode and she hasn't threatened it since.

 

I say start slow. Just be nice send a card and see how she responds. Mine was trying so hard to forget me she would be all nice, including spending a full weekend with me and sleeping with me, then we'd get in a fight that she would blow out of proportion to run from her feelings for me, and then call the police. So she never wnated NC until she got too close and then she would threaten it.

 

You will know if she is serious and what her reasoning is, I did. I knew she didn't want to do NC but wanted to give the new guy a chance so she was looking for someone else to help her not see me. That is how she is, weak. She tried to blow our relationship up so it couldn't be repaired or so I would just never try to work it out. Said mean things etc. I don't care, like I said earlier I can read her and if she really wanted NC or minimal C then she wouldn't answer my calls. She would block my emails or something, but no she would call me at times and just chat or want to stop by to say hello. It will be obvious if she really wants NC. If she does then you have at least shown that you care and by respecting her wishes you will show it again with NC after that. Good luck!

[yeformerballandchain]

The cynic in me. I developed this attitude when my oldest son went through the same thing. Long story. However, have you seen any reports from PP or the doctor? Would she be willing to share this information and if not...why?

[imokurnot]

I am pretty cynical as well. But she actually had me call the planned parenthood people originally because she was too upset. I know when she lies to me, every time. She is the worst liar ever. She has lied to me at times this past week and I have caught her but they were mainly to protect my feelings regarding her new boyfriend. She had the procedure on Friday and the timeframe was truthful. No she won't share anything with me, in fact she won't even talk to me or answer my calls. She hangs up on me when I try. Am I wrong to think she should talk to me for even 5 minutes? Do my feelings count at all?

 

She can't share anything, she says becaus eit gurts her so much. I mean not just in this case but ever. She is the most closed off emotional person ever. So many things that she protects herself from it is sad.

[yeformerballandchain]

I am so sorry. You tried and this is what is important. I know this sounds cliche' but she will reach out when she is ready. Now it is time to take care of you.

 

smd

[imokurnot]

Your right. I tried and that is all I set out to do. I did get a little over the top over the weekend with some of the messages I left for her and I was wrong. You are also right she will reach out for me when she is ready. I think I projected my fear, that is her not talking to me about it after the fact, onto her. I mean to say, I decided what she was going to do before I gave her a chance to do anything. Thus gacve her multiple reasons and excuses to do exactly what I projected on her. Instead of doing that I should have given her every chance to do the right thing and believed that she would do the right thing. She very well may have. If I had more faith in her and allowed her to do the right thing sahe just may have doen it and understood it to be the right thing. I have always believed that you ill get from people exactly what you show them you expect from them. If you expect great things from someone they will usually try their best to come through. If you expect the worst you have set the expectations and they will fulfill your expectations and no more than that.

[yeformerballandchain]

Edited because my hands are still 'virtually' around my attorney's red hot little head wanting to pinch it off and I cannot type worth a $***.

 

No TY! Honestly! Reading and replying to this forum is the only thing keeping me on this side of sanity. TG I found it. You should have seen my search string though. Oh my!

 

I am impressed at what your reply was to me. You are a very deep person. You suffer from the same affliction as I. We are both idealists. A hard way to go in this world, as many don't understand our thought pattern, especially when we are hurting.

 

Please excuse me here. I am not pointing fingers in any way. I just returned from my attorney's office where I gave him a royal ripping. I probably don't have an attorney any longer. Needless to say...my mind is not working well right now.

 

Anyway...

 

If you are like me in the idealist sense, you calmed down much too easily. I sense that there might be more here than your words say. Could be because it is Monday and we all tend to get logical on Monday. Or again, it could be because I just returned from my attorney's office I would have much prefered to pinch his little head off! OMG, did I type that!!!

 

Arrives the cynic. Ah yes and it could be because my idealistic ways are getting confused with my recent found cynacism.

 

I am babbling here.

 

Please tell me honestly if you feel okay. Even though I don't know you, I feel your pain. I respect you for what you did and tried to do. I admire you for caring so much. I wish there were more people out there like you!

 

smd

[imokurnot]

Yet I have no choice but to become ok with the reality of the way things are. I do calm down rather quickly. I have read Men are From Mars Women are From Venus and that is something I learned. I learned that women take more time to move from being upset to being ready to talk and be civil and understand the other party. I am very analytical and I over analyze things all the time. This relationship has been a real confusing ordeal to say the least. She is impossible at times to get through to and others she is normal. She is on Prozac and has had depression issues for years. Only after we stopped seeing each other, well she cheated and picked new guy over me LOL, did she start to take her medication regularly or at all. Even though I had asked her repeatedly to please try and take the meds and see if they help and we can adjust things from there. Nope I was not understanding that they made her tired. Now I was right and she knows it was unfair to me that she now takes them and is in counseling learning to deal with her new boyfriend as I always asked her to do for me (she is in solo counseling but addressing her communication issues).

 

She has this best friend and she is her new boyfriends cousin. If not for that she and I would hasve had another chance to make it work. She tells me "My friends say they would be happy for me no matter who I chose but I know they really wouldn't be." or "If I got back together with you, it would be you and me against the world and I am not strong enough for that right now." She has serious feelings for me and lets them out and we kiss and things one day only for her to get all scared and not want to see me the next. Too hard for her it hurts she tells me. I ask, "how does it hurt, what hurts and in what way?" No reply or, "It just hurts me". WTF is that?

 

She left me and says I treated her like crap and her new boyfriend treats her like she deserves, like a queen. Yet recently she has been calling me crying saying, "Why do I always get dissapointed, why do people always let me down". or "He does some things and I thnk to myself, 'Drew (me) would never do that to me." Ok so she is seeing he isn't the guy she once thought he was LOL. But this week he was in a fight with her on Monday and Tuesday and they weren't talking at all. She found out she was pregnant last Sunday. So in my mind how the hell do you fight with your girlfriend when she has just found out she is in this state? Then I come to find out on Friday when she went in for the abortion that he wasn't going with her originally but her friend couldn't make it last minute and he went as a replacement. He went because in her friends words, "It was him or I would have had to send my dad and that wouldn't have been any good". Maybe I am wrong here but I would have been going no matter what if given the chance. If I were her boyfriend I would have gone no matter what and it would have in fact been very impotant to me to go. I would have not only been willing to go but wanted to go. That is so disrespectful in my mind and I got pissed.

 

I have a long, long post on my story here somewhere. I will look for it and link it if I am that smart in a few minutes. Here it is lol I warned you I write novels as posts, sorry..... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=54021

 

But no I am not ok with everything but I have no choice but to learn how to becoome ok with it soon. Or risk breaking my hand punching the walls repeatedly.

[upsetnhurt]

Has she called Imokurnot?

[imokurnot]

Oh I am soooo mad right now. She is such a child as I think I have pointed out. I had sent her an email today basically saying ok, I get it were done. I stated everything I had felt in the relationship, both good and bad. It was really long and pretty personal. It was my sincere thoughts and it ended very possitive with me wishing her all the best in her life and sayng no hard feelings. I get a reply from her and it is basically that she is done and can't do the roller coaster thing and her feelings are too deep for me to ever be friends like we had tried to be etc. etc. It was a very nice letter and I agreed on most of it's points. I wrote back and even voicemailed her saying everything is ok and I respect her feelings and understand what she had written and agreed with it in principle. I wished her luck and said I love you one more time. I figured I would wait a week or two before trying to talk to her or email her or anything. So I get off the phone and I have her email password so I go to see the email she sent me because she had been copying people in the past on my emails and I talked to her about it and the lack of respect for what we had over 7 years and to share it with people she hasn't known for a year yet (in her bf's case). Well she did it again. This very personal email that I had confessed my love and all the things we went through togehter, private things, in our 7 yrs together she BCC'd her friend of 2 yrs and her boyfriend of 2 months. I can't believe what a bi**h she is to do that with our personal relationship stuff like that. I am soooo pissed right now God I am livid. I cannot believe her and her actions. What is the reason for sending my email to her boyfriend with all that personal stuff in it. Why not just write a new email to me and send it and BCC them on it but not include my email with all the personal stuff on our relationship and my emotions in it on to them. I can't believe what a loser she is and that has made me realize I am now done. My God what a child.......

 

Oh and she never mentioned once the abortion or the fact of it being mine. She never made any attempt to say she understood my feelings of finding out the way I did or anything. Just that we couldn't be friends and we need to move on with our lives etc. etc.

 

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggg!!!

[yeformerballandchain]

None of this makes sense to me. I read the link you posted in your reply. I am thoroughly confused now. You have to be confused!

 

If I read this right and it is very early in the morning for me...

 

You broke up after seven years together. She had a problem dealing with her emotions. She recently started taking medication, however not on a regular basis. She had an abortion only DAYS after finding out she was pregnant (that one really gets me). She states she was over 12 weeks pregnant. She shared your personal communication with her new boyfriend. She runs hot and cold to say the least.

 

I hate to ask this, I don't want to offend you at all, but how old is she? Calendar and emotional maturity too, I guess.

 

Please confirm the main part above for me. I realize there are many other 'things' in this pot, but I have opinions on what is above.

 

Hang in there!

 

smd

[imokurnot]

She is 31 calender years and 12 emotional years. That is according to her counselor. I never really thought the counselor was being literal. But I have to start to realize that she was and I have made excuses for her all this time. I see her heart and her actions and don't understand sometimes. I need to remember that she is the emotional equivelant to a 12 yr old.

 

We just had our final talk today. Basically I left her message asking to talk to me and call me and I would be kind and I had a few things to say and I would move on. She called and screamed at me. She said her and her new boyfriend have a so much better relationship than anything her and I ever shared etc. etc. Well than last week crying to me about what a dissapointment he has been must have been Academy Award performance worthy. Laying with me on my bed Tuesday and crying into my pillow "I miss you so much!" was I guess a sneeze or series of sneezes that I mistook for plainly spoken English words that made up a thought and a feeling that was displayed by the formation of salty water droplets. These droplets seemed to come from her eye area. This led me to once again believe that it was all related and in fact, true raw emotions that made their way out of her being. Wow I guess I can't read people after all. I guess I need to believe her words in her angry tone that I thought was a defense mechanism over her raw emotions that weren't coerced in any way. They just happened out of the blue as she lay with me on Tuesday.

 

If you read y long post on our relationship you must be somewhat caught up and have some opinions. I am all ears (or eyes I guess in this case). I know the best thing to do is NC and that will be started or has been started 15 minutes ago. I am doing very well, in 15 minutes I have only though about emailing her 3 times, about text messaging her twice and about calling her back five times. That is not bad and I am sure it will get easier. I was very kind on the phone and she got her last licks in and said she never wanted to hear from me again. Etc ETC. etc. Has anyone had anyone tell them that and heard from that person again? I have never heard it said so angrily and hurtfully before or at all for that matter. She needs time that is for sure and she must feel very proud to have gone out on top and being so hurtful to me. I don't understand, why couldn't she do what I did and I was saying, I love you take care of yourself, I am here for you if you need anything, be good, good luck bye bye. I get F U I hate you, I never want to hear from you again, you drove me to this, my new relationship is better than ours ever was, etc. etc. etc. all at a couple octves and decibels above my voice when I scream (which is rarely). Shhe really wants to try and hate me. I guess that is the only way she can let go and I have to respect that........... For now at least

[yeformerballandchain]

Hey Imokurnot,

 

I am smiling here. I feel badly I wasn't home til late Tuesday, including being gone til awhile ago all day today, so I couldn't post a reply. I am not smiling at what you are going through, I am smiling because...I had an epiphany tonight regarding my 'stuff' nice word. I have a feeling you are on your way to at least one, as well!

 

At the same time, if not at this late time, I might have not had this epiphany, my reply would have not had the 'wit' in it.

 

Btw, I have to say I was also smiling at your 'subtle' humor. I know it was a 'Freud thing', as you don't feel much humor right now. Anyway, I love your style of writing.

 

My epiphany is a very long story related to a long story, which took a darn long time to see. I might post it, have to give it some thought first though. I do tend to babble at times. *Note to self-don't share EVERYTHING in your head online.

 

Your EX-girlfriend. Did you see that? I did say EX. What happened is a good thing, a half full glass of water.

 

Now the odd thing is this. In 1998, my oldest son got involved with a STILL emotionally intelligent girl of 12, (heck maybe 6 years of age) and just now saw the light in the last year. Isn't that odd? SEVEN YEARS AND SEVEN YEARS! In re-reading your posts, I just got the chills. I didn't put this together until a few minutes ago.

 

When you said 12, I had to look at where you were living. You had better not be my kid or I will kick your rear. If you are, I warned you how many thousand times, now I am angry!

 

Outpours, my own feelings about these poor women, that are so much alike, and the men they set out to destroy (knowingly or unknowingly???).

 

Oh Jeez, I am gonna have to get typing now and excuse any typos or spelling errors as I am on a roll.

 

Son, had two children with this GIRL. They were never married, met when she was 16 and he was 19! I have NEVER felt ANY real fear with my son's girlfriends until/since I MET her.

 

I can still see her standing on my FORMER front step asking if my oldest son was home in 1998. I had the shivers and felt DANGER. I brushed it off and attributed it to her age, and the way she looked with that 10 times too small shirt she was wearing and those denim bikini bottoms she was wearing on that hot summer day. Oh, those weren't wasn't bikini bottoms, those were her DRESS shorts for ANY public viewing!!!! Every male within a five mile radious of her on the ground.

 

Her homones were emitting a signal that caused a change in the flight pattern of the jets that always flew over our home, preparing for landing 40 miles north. On that day, our local airfield was extremely clogged with large passenger jets and unexplained jammed radar. In addition to that, the normal few times a day trips, the local Army base, took over our home with helicopters and such, increased dramatically. I thought we (USA) had gone to an alert level and kept listening for the EBS to play that gosh awful squeelch over tv and radio.

 

Ok I played that scene to death.

 

I kept my mouth shut, as a good mom always does, but my senses were peaked and waiting for a hopefully soon opportunity to voice my intuition about this girl to the intended victim before it was too late.

 

Mind you, it was not the shorts really. That was a normal thing to wear, I GUESS, for girls that age around here. I honestly felt something, saw something. Something didn't seem right about her. I was right.

 

Both sons, many girls, not one has lived up to ANYTHING she has done.

 

Even got a call today from oldest son getting jerked around again. They have two children together. My GRANDCHILDREN whom I LOVE DEARLY. I rarely see them. Her decision to torture me. If cannot see them unless he comes up with 300% of the court ordered child support amount in cash on demand. Hmmm.

 

No, not legal, but as I might have mentioned, I live in Stepford, Indiana. She is from a HUGE farm family here. We won't get on this topic. I can't do a thing about it.

 

That is just the tip of the iceberg on what SHE has done to him. She should be called black widow, but she never completely devours her victims.

 

Oddly enough, I feel sorry for her most of the time. I know it is her emotional maturity, the way she was raised that causes this behavior. Her mother, grandmother, all the women in the family reinforce this behavior and there is not a man left standing that has been with any of these women. So sad.

 

~Prozac~ will never help your ex gf. She needs thousands of hours of counseling from the right counselor and about a thousand other things.

 

I am happy she is getting counseling, but she is a long way from getting well. AND even if she does get better, she will often revert to old behaviors when she is stressed or under pressure or feels threatened in any way.

 

I guess you know what causes this and there is nothing you can do. It is not your fault in anyway, nor is it your fault for caring/loving her.

 

I hope you have continued to stay strong on the NC decision. Oh please say you have!

 

Oldest son had a horrible time with this. He did well for almost a year before second child was conceived. He suffered so much.

 

He has 'done' almost a year again with NC and doing very well. Well except for fights about her withholding the kids, give me more money requests, she enjoys.

 

This girl is addicted to DRAMA. As soon as things become comfortable, she goes crazy. If things get stressful she does the same only appears insane. I cannot even list the things or the times I have had to go to the local PD.

 

She has almost caused me insanity many times and my son is still recovering.

 

Comfortable is the word here.

 

So...I might be wrong, but it sure seems odd to me you can just find out you are pregnant, especially that far along, not know it, and then get an abortion within the same week?

 

I have heard the irregular period story too many times. Oh have I heard it.

 

However, there is a lot of drama in two possible dads, being so far along and getting this rushed so quickly.

 

Just a thought, you are in CA and I am in IN. Things might be different there.

 

I can say more, but I just saw what time it was. Wow gotta get to bed.

 

If you want to hear more, let me know. Or if any of this babbling makes sense.

 

I shouldn't have said so much about HER and your EX gf, there are still open wounds for you. Please forgive me if I stepped out of line. I am a mom and get very protective, when thinking of what my kids have gone through, or mightl go through. I really should have keyed it down a bit.

 

TC and again HANG IN THERE...each day will get better!

 

smd

[imokurnot]

Today she sent me an email telling me she wants no contact. We decided this twop days ago? What is the point of saying it again. Although she mentioned in this email she is no in fear of me and afraid for her safety. WHAT? In 7 years I never displayed any indication what so ever that I could be capable of harming her, or anyone close to her, in any way. He r new boyfriend is afraid of me becuas ehe has heard I was a boxer and a kickboxer. That was when I was a kid, from 12-23 yrs old. I am 39 now. I haven't been in a fight in a few years and I never start a fight, ever, period. What are they trying to do? Trying to throw that out there so it's like a wrning or something? To go get a restraining order or something and they need to build a case? I have never, ever, been a threat or would have done anything or even said anything that would lead them to the conclusion I would harm anyone. That one made me mad. I think if she really feels that or has anxiety about me harming her, then she needs to tell her counselor and her psych. If they go over the past 7 yrs they will clearly see I have never giiven any indication I am capable of violence towards her or even that I would be inclined to do anything at all to hurt her emotionally. If anything I was an enabler. She was irrational al the time and I gave up arguing and became passive. She has me so wrong I am not even sure she is the person I went out with for 7 yrs.

 

I have gone over it mentally the past few nights and come to the conclusion she manipulated the fights. They were her way of getting me to move on because she can't handle her emotions and her feelings towards me. She didn't answer my calls once I found out it was mine. She hung up on me and said things that she knew would hurt me to make me mad and provoke the response I so typically displayed and I did not dissapoint her this time either. I have never even raised my voice to her in person but on voicemail I can get pretty mad when someone says something to provoke me and then hangs up on me. We have talked about that so many times. Hanging up on people is childish and is hurtful and wrong. She did it on purpose. She knew what she was doing either consciously or sub-consciously. All I know is she has some issues and I am done.

 

The thing is to me it may have been just ego. I had this vision of her know taking her meds and her and the new guy having a perfect relationship. This past week shows me that she is so far away from having a normal, healthy relationship with anyone including herself that I needn't worry about looking bad or failing her in the relationship. I give up and if she thinks that means she wins she is wrong. It means I win and there can be no doubt about that fact. I never give up on anything so fopr me this is hard. But for her to do and say and evidently think the things she has stated she does about me, there is no way I can talk to her ever again. There is no way she can have me portrayed in her mind the way she says she does. It is impossible to take my actions and come up with the opinions she tells me she has formed of me. I can't spen 7 more years trying to make her see what I truly am, I just don't care anymore what she thinks or at least says she thinks about me. I know what I am and that is all that maters.

 

My favorite person in the world is from Indiana. John R. Wooden he was a basketball coach at UCLA here for many years. He always said, "Be more concerned with your character than your reputation; For your reputation is merely what people perceive you to be where as your character is truly who you are." Well I am quite happy with the person I am and I do not need validation from her. If my reputation suffers for it, that is the way it has to be. I will not compromise my principles or doubt my character or values for anyone. Least of all someone that doesn't appreciate the things I have done for them in the first place. I hope she ends up ok and has a happy life. I hold no grudges no matter what she had done. n the end she didn't do anything to me that I didn't allow her to do. I am ok with that aswell. I still don't know that i would have done anything any differently. I only know one way to be and that is to love with everything I have. If it hurts me more in the end well then it is something I will have to deal with. Knowing that going in means I have no right to complain once it happens.

[yeformerballandchain]

imokurnotm, what she did has nothing to do with you. You have to understand this or you will still be very, very unhappy.

 

My simple analogy for emotional immaturity is this:

 

Think of a three to five year old. Notice how they will say or things to make someone they are dependent on angry, when they are upset about something? It is not something they are doing because they don't care for you. It is a way to make you feel as they feel.

 

Then in a split second they want to cuddle and love you like crazy.

 

Do you see this simple analogy???

 

You are right, you were her codepedent. Keep remembering that and think about it each time she even pops in your mind. It will get better each minute of each day.

 

Do NOT take offense at what she has implied. It is all so familiar to me. Why not say something that she knows will hurt you deeply? She had to think of something that would really put a wound in you. She knows you, don't you see???

 

You don't have to even think badly of her to get better. Just realize there is nothing you can do for her. Sure be angry, been there and still doing that. However, don't let the anger cause you to do what she wants.

 

She wants to FEEL your anger. She wants to FEEL your emotions. She wants this because she can understand yours, but not hers. This helps her feel in control of herself.

 

NC, NC, NC, NC, NC and I mean do not read an email, block her address, no phone calls, no nothing. It must be COLD TURKEY for this to work. You are scraping off the protective cover of a very fresh wound, each time you see, or hear anything from her.

 

I would love to see how you are doing each day with this. I KNOW for a FACT, that each day will get easier.

 

Take Care!

 

smd

[imokurnot]

I get mad because she has feelings for me and she admits them to me at times. I will go with NC so far trhis morning it has been hard but I am making it. Will fill you in on progress later today or tonight. Wish me luck lol.