winterpast Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 How do you know if you are dealing with a spouse who is a workaholic or just has a strong work ethic? For example: Spouse is salaried and uses this as an opportunity to work as much as possible, leaving little to no time for enjoyment outside of work and is only getting 4-5 hours of sleep at night (sometimes only 2 hours)Spouse states that they will always give 110% to their job and can't scale back.Spouse states that they have to be #1 and better than everyone else.Says that when child needs them they will come home for a couple of hours (i.e. special event like birthday) and just go back to work right after.Works from 5pm to 11am the next day and coworkers are concerned for his safety while driving home because he was falling asleep standing up. Anytime someone brings up concern or asks for them to take more time for themselves to rest, spouse will become defensive and say people don't understand and are trying to bring them down. Obviously this is concerning my Husband and I am willing to see his perspective but I don't think he wants to see mine. He doesn't understand my concern that he is missing out on life because he doesn't want to have a work/life balance. He thinks my concern is motivated by wanting to "bring him down" and not because I am truly scared that he will kill himself like this. If I'm in the wrong then I can accept that...
carhill Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 In life there is a healthy balance. Has your H always been this way? Does your lifestyle command his work ethic/workaholic style to be what it is? IOW, if he balanced more to prioritize family and marriage would your lifestyle take a significant hit? I know you wrote he is 'salaried' but as a business owner I know a lot of other perks go along with salary that are performance-related. How does it go for him?
Author winterpast Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 In life there is a healthy balance. Has your H always been this way? He was this way with college and grades, always very competitive. He wasn't always like this with work because before he was hourly and was capped at 40 hrs. As soon as he got a salaried position (the past two years) he's been this way. He loves not being capped at X amount of hours each week. Does your lifestyle command his work ethic/workaholic style to be what it is? No, not necessarily. We've lived within our means. He took a pay decrease with this new company after being fired from the previous and we made the adjustments to live on that. I have mentioned moving into a smaller house to make it even easier and he says he doesn't want to give this house up. He's very sentimental with things like this and gets attached. IOW, if he balanced more to prioritize family and marriage would your lifestyle take a significant hit? I think it would improve because he would be more rested/happy and thus more productive at work. I know you wrote he is 'salaried' but as a business owner I know a lot of other perks go along with salary that are performance-related. How does it go for him? Can you clarify with specifics? Not sure how to answer. ten characters
Author winterpast Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) For what it's worth, I'm not begging or demanding him to spend more time with us. I just want him to take better care of himself and get healthy. I've watched him deteriorate for the last two years trying to prove himself to these companies and I'm afraid he is going to work himself into an early grave. His family, friends, coworkers and I are all telling him to slow down. He thinks we are all out to take away his glory and no one cares about him. Edit: Also, He told me today it doesn't matter how much he is paid he will always work this much. So, I asked hypothetically if he would still give this company 110% if he was never compensated again and he said yes. He says it's just the way he was raised. Edited February 28, 2014 by winterpast
d0nnivain Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 based upon repeated instances of putting his own life in jeopardy by driving drowsy I think this classic type A person who is hypercompetitive may be a workaholic. 2
carhill Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 Can you clarify with specifics? Not sure how to answer. Salaried workers can receive performance-based additional pay or comp time or ??? (depends on company). Sometimes it's 'official' and sometimes it's not. Each circumstance and job is different. There are some people in this world who just love to work and will do it for 'free' but they are few and far between IME. If he's one of them, well, that's apparently what you've signed on for. Also, He told me today it doesn't matter how much he is paid he will always work this much. So, I asked hypothetically if he would still give this company 110% if he was never compensated again and he said yes. He says it's just the way he was raised. This sounds 'off' but hey I'd love to have an employee like that! Sadly, like I was a generation ago, most of the folks with that kind of perspective don't stay employees long, but rather become competing businesses, like I did. However, I was single at the time. He's got a family to consider. That said, this isn't a surprise to you, based on what you've written. If it is something you were hoping to influence or 'change', well, good luck!
Author winterpast Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 Salaried workers can receive performance-based additional pay or comp time or ??? (depends on company). Sometimes it's 'official' and sometimes it's not. Each circumstance and job is different. There are some people in this world who just love to work and will do it for 'free' but they are few and far between IME. If he's one of them, well, that's apparently what you've signed on for. This sounds 'off' but hey I'd love to have an employee like that! Sadly, like I was a generation ago, most of the folks with that kind of perspective don't stay employees long, but rather become competing businesses, like I did. However, I was single at the time. He's got a family to consider. That said, this isn't a surprise to you, based on what you've written. If it is something you were hoping to influence or 'change', well, good luck! Hard to say, I can only go by what he's told me and even that information changes based on the conversation. The story is always changing. As far as I know he gets 40 hours of vacation per year. He isn't keen on the idea of using it because it puts him away from the store. I don't know what he has for comp/sick time. He says he can get bonus money for hitting shrink goals etc. They don't give pay based on performance because they supposedly got in trouble for rewarding the better performing employees. They said it's based on a formula used to calculate salary. So it depends on store profit and cost of living in the area etc. I don't expect him to change. He's 30 and pretty much set in his ways. I'm just trying to find the line between someone with a strong work ethic and a workaholic, since he claims to just have the work ethic and doesn't believe he is a workaholic. I told him if he wants to see his work ethic get him what he deserves then maybe he should invest in a personal business or work in the family business. I figured if he wants to work like this no matter what then make it worth it by working for yourself.
MidwestUSA Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 I recall your concerns in a prior thread. Did your husband get his medication regimen reevaluated by a doctor? Has his behavior on that front improved?
Author winterpast Posted February 28, 2014 Author Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) I recall your concerns in a prior thread. Did your husband get his medication regimen reevaluated by a doctor? Has his behavior on that front improved? He's decided to stop taking the Ambien. He said he will talk about the other stuff the next time he sees his doctor. He's not going to change doctors though. Edit: Behavior towards me has been calmer. I think he's been taking his therapist's advice on keeping certain feelings and thoughts to himself. I haven't updated on that thread because It's been a short term change and don't want to jump to any conclusions just yet. Edited February 28, 2014 by winterpast
Eivuwan Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Your husband has many mental health problems and this is just another one of them. He should really switch doctors. I think he's just using work as a way to avoid things that he doesn't want to think about.
soccerrprp Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Whatever he may be going through, he is a workaholic. Certainly not healthy. 1
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Your husband has many mental health problems and this is just another one of them. He should really switch doctors. I think he's just using work as a way to avoid things that he doesn't want to think about. I think he needs new doctors too. Hard to convince him of that.
dichotomy Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Why does he need to work this much - do you think? 1) Because (as other mentioned) he has issues in his life and mental health he is try to compensate for? 2) Being fired from his last company - he has something to prove or feels professional esteem issues? 3) He thinks he will get recognized and ahead and rewarded for the extra hours? If his kids are important (he does rush home for a bday - which is good) then tell him he needs to be there (healthy and long life) for them as well and take care of himself. Lack of sleep will lead to all sorts of medical and mental health issues.
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Why does he need to work this much - do you think? 1) Because (as other mentioned) he has issues in his life and mental health he is try to compensate for? 2) Being fired from his last company - he has something to prove or feels professional esteem issues? 3) He thinks he will get recognized and ahead and rewarded for the extra hours? If his kids are important (he does rush home for a bday - which is good) then tell him he needs to be there (healthy and long life) for them as well and take care of himself. Lack of sleep will lead to all sorts of medical and mental health issues. Not sure if it's #1 but quite possible. I know #2 and #3 are part of it. He's very fearful of failing, he can't allow any type of failure in his life. He said that his parents expected perfection from him growing up and he never could be as good as they wanted. He had another therapist back when he started college. That one suggested for him to take a class and fail it on purpose. The reason being, to show my Husband that it wouldn't be the end of the world if he failed. DH said he refused to do that because he's not a failure. If his kids are important (he does rush home for a bday - which is good) then tell him he needs to be there (healthy and long life) for them as well and take care of himself. I've told him this but his response is he doesn't care what happens to himself. If he dies in a car accident on the way to work then so be it. I asked him today why he can't just scale it back a little and take care of himself etc. He said he can't because he hates himself. I'm sure alot of this is because he has a lot of unresolved issues with his feelings. Instead of facing it he likes to rug-sweep and 'keep it in the past'. I think work is a distraction and easy.
Eivuwan Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Well, I guess the question for you is how much longer are you willing to sacrifice your own mental health for someone who does not care about himself? 1
dichotomy Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Something I have come to understand after 25 years in business...simply working extra hours has little bearing on success or reward at most companies. Those extra hours are best spend improving yourself, learning, networking, your health, experiences, and more. Now about the two other things. I've told him this but his response is he doesn't care what happens to himself. If he dies in a car accident on the way to work then so be it. Does he not take his role as a father seriously ? Its not about whether he cares whether he lives or not - but his children care, and the loss of a father would hurt them. His job is to be there for them. I asked him today why he can't just scale it back a little and take care of himself etc. He said he can't because he hates himself. Ya so what - he is needed by those who love him....get over himself. Edited March 1, 2014 by dichotomy
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Does he not take his role as a father seriously ? Its not about whether he cares whether he lives or not - but his children care, and the loss of a father would hurt them. His job is to be there for them. I don't think he does. He seems stuck on a self pity party and trying to be a martyr. He identifies himself by his job and accomplishments with that. He thinks that just simply being around is being a Father (if that makes since). I'm the one that is doing 99% of the raising.
Eivuwan Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Really, when someone's mental health problems are this bad, it's really hard for him to put anyone else above his own wants right now. So things like trying to appeal to his family responsibilities or anything that involves being considerate of others isn't going to work. Edit: Honestly, I don't think any kind of logical reasoning will work with him because he is simply not in a state in which he can understand it. Edited March 1, 2014 by Eivuwan 2
Poppygoodwill Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 You know, there's what he does and then there's what you do. You're probably tired of raising your concerns and frustrations with him. He's probably tired of hearing them. The only thing you can change, is your own perspective and behaviour. So what could you do here to make this situation more tolerable for yourself, and your kids? It might mean letting go of the idea of having him around more, of him striking a better work/life balance. If you stop wanting that, then you will be more sanguine with the status quo. I'm not saying it's the right thing, or that I could do it. I would find the whole thing really damn boring; who wants a spouse who is never around? Why bother getting married? But maybe you are more broad minded than me. :-)
VeronicaRoss Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 /\ I had the same question as the poster above. Why are you involved with someone like this? That's the real question. I wasn't sure if you have kids or are talking about it but why would you give your future children a father like this? That just doesn't seem fair. You have to be running away from intimacy as much as he is to be where you are. You're going to be able to get a lot more done by focusing on yourself first. What is your life like? You can't control another human being -- especially if they're mentally ill. Even a spouse. Can't. You'll hurt yourself and waste your life trying.
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Today I called him at work to see how he was doing. He told me about his conversation with HR (he's trying to get an out-of-cycle raise). He told me that they told him that they have to get an approval from a judge to go further in the decision. I told him that sounded like a lot of BS and he said I was accusing him of lying? If I have a differing opinion of any kind then he takes it has a direct insult even if its about someone else. How can I compete with this? He will assume we will have an issue about something three days before it happens and tries to react before it even comes up. Basically, he will plan my reactions before and try to manipulate the situation. This is driving me nuts. I cannot have an opinion or idea without him deciding beforehand or telling me "you should have said xyz". We didn't have these problems before he starting working all the time (5am-9pm daily). Of course, now that I think about it, we didn't have problems before our son because DH would get babied all the dang time. Anyways, I was trying to get some more clarification on what issues his having with me and why he seems so easily annoyed. He just kept saying "I don't care about my feelings, I have work to do." He just kept taking about how his feelings don't matter and how he is so indifferent to how he feels. He also says I'm disrespectful because I'm not allowing him to be able to have a job without the distractions of what's going on with me or at home. At the last job, when he was there the same amount of hours. He started getting text messages from a female coworker. They were benign but it was a lot of communication outside of work. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable with this and he needs to be careful with being so friendly while being her boss. He reacted by hiding it. Any contact was hidden and he constantly lied about any details involving her. It finally stopped after he was fired. He said they were just friends and he was a father figure to her. He said nothing happened between them. He said he did it because he felt like I wasn't respecting his job and tried to control who he was friends with so he wanted to "rebel" against me. Basically, making it look like an affair to show me I couldn't control him. He now is ashamed of it and says he doesn't understand why he did it and it wasn't a rational reaction. I have no chance in this marriage. I can't ego boost him enough for him to feel loved and respected at the level he wants. I can't do anything about him assuming my reactions or feelings about things before I even get a chance to react. Maybe I am a crappy, disrespectful wife, who knows. All I know is he is in his own world, especially at work. I can't compete with his job.
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 You know, there's what he does and then there's what you do. You're probably tired of raising your concerns and frustrations with him. He's probably tired of hearing them. The only thing you can change, is your own perspective and behaviour. So what could you do here to make this situation more tolerable for yourself, and your kids? It might mean letting go of the idea of having him around more, of him striking a better work/life balance. If you stop wanting that, then you will be more sanguine with the status quo. I'm not saying it's the right thing, or that I could do it. I would find the whole thing really damn boring; who wants a spouse who is never around? Why bother getting married? But maybe you are more broad minded than me. :-) I've changed my side of it by trying to be as supportive as possible and make sure he doesn't have to worry about anything at home. I have tried to leave him alone. I don't really say anything about him needing to be around more. The argument now is how he's wearing himself down to the point that co-workers are calling me freaking out that he can't even drive home safely. Edit: I never knew he would be like this once he was salaried. It's been an issue for the last two years only. He wasn't like this when he was hourly because they wouldn't let him work past 40 hours. So, of course he was around more and getting more rest.
Author winterpast Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 /\ I had the same question as the poster above. Why are you involved with someone like this? That's the real question. I wasn't sure if you have kids or are talking about it but why would you give your future children a father like this? That just doesn't seem fair. I've been with him for 10 years and never saw this side or any indication he would be like this. It's been an issue this past two years. We have one child who is 2.5 years old. If I knew then what I know now then I wouldn't have had a child with him. You have to be running away from intimacy as much as he is to be where you are. You're going to be able to get a lot more done by focusing on yourself first. What is your life like? I don't run away from anything. He gets what he wants with intimacy. I just try to not ask for anything and let him tell me when he has the time. As far as what life is like, I do what needs to be done to take care of my son and myself. I don't wait around for DH anymore. You can't control another human being -- especially if they're mentally ill. Even a spouse. Can't. You'll hurt yourself and waste your life trying. I've realized this. Ten characters
lucy_in_disguise Posted March 2, 2014 Posted March 2, 2014 Whatever mental medications he is on are obviously not helping. As i recall, he is on quite the cocktail of drugs, and it's possible they're fueling his issues. I would make it an ultimatum. He gets help or you leave. You cannot live this way and like with any addiction you are enabling by staying. The best thing you can do for all of you is leave. He needs to see the consequences of his issues.
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