Endings, beginnings, change

[HPrynne]

MW here in a relationship with a MOM. Not going to make excuses about how either of us ended up in an A, but it has been the catalyst to seeing that our Ms are beyond repair and we have decided (and started taking steps) to end our Ms. We know that continuing the A (rather than either ending the A or ending our respective Ms) is a destructive choice for all involved and we will not do that under any circumstances.

 

I hope that ultimately, a few years from now, all parties will be able to look back and see that as monumental and crappy (in some ways) as it is, this change is the one that allowed for more happiness and dignity than the lives we were living. I'm not saying we've done the right things or shouldn't have found a way to prevent this in the first place - in fact, I can see now what it is I did wrong in my M, before the A. But I can't go back; all I can do is go forward and try not to make the same mistakes or any other giant blunders while we sort everything out.

 

Unsurprisingly, this experience has humanized a set of people I previously had very little sympathy for - WSs. Now I understand better how complicated it can be, and hope that I can nurture future relationships in a way that my M was not nurtured by either myself or my H.

 

I would really like to hear from those who have made similar choices, to end their Ms and be with the AP, especially where that path has worked out, but also where it has not, to hopefully learn and get insight on that as well.

[Anne Boleyn]

MW here in a relationship with a MOM. Not going to make excuses about how either of us ended up in an A, but it has been the catalyst to seeing that our Ms are beyond repair and we have decided (and started taking steps) to end our Ms. We know that continuing the A (rather than either ending the A or ending our respective Ms) is a destructive choice for all involved and we will not do that under any circumstances.

 

I hope that ultimately, a few years from now, all parties will be able to look back and see that as monumental and crappy (in some ways) as it is, this change is the one that allowed for more happiness and dignity than the lives we were living. I'm not saying we've done the right things or shouldn't have found a way to prevent this in the first place - in fact, I can see now what it is I did wrong in my M, before the A. But I can't go back; all I can do is go forward and try not to make the same mistakes or any other giant blunders while we sort everything out.

 

Unsurprisingly, this experience has humanized a set of people I previously had very little sympathy for - WSs. Now I understand better how complicated it can be, and hope that I can nurture future relationships in a way that my M was not nurtured by either myself or my H.

 

I would really like to hear from those who have made similar choices, to end their Ms and be with the AP, especially where that path has worked out, but also where it has not, to hopefully learn and get insight on that as well.

 

My husband and I divorced our spouses to be together. Obviously, it's not a choice that's free of challenges, but it's worked out best for us.

 

I think the key thing is to make sure of two things:

 

1. You love the person you're leaving your spouse for, not just the idea of them, or the affair and the related intrigues and mysteries that are a part of said affair.

 

2. You trust the person you're leaving your spouse for.

 

When I see these relationships break apart, that's generally the key reasons... They didn't love their AP so much as they loved the dangerousness of the affair, or they couldn't get over the trust issues related to having an affair. Questions like "if he cheated on her, will he cheat on me?" and "he did this to cover his tracks with her and now he's doing the same thing with me, is it because he's cheating?"

 

If you feel like those aren't issues, and you're willing to do what anybody else is willing to do in any other relationship, then you have just as equal a shot at making it work as anybody else. Then again, you have just the same chance as everybody else that it will fail, so it's important that you're taking time to develop a sense of self as well... Some autonomous thinking/behaviors and identities aside from being somebody else's wife/other half.

[HPrynne]

Thank you. Those are just the kinds of thoughts/questions/advice I'm looking for.

[blacknoir]

I was the MM with a MOW.

 

She had already left her husband - her "catalyst" was many months earlier with someone (SOM) that then proceeded to screw her over emotionally.

 

I did not leave my wife for the MOW - I left for me. My M had been dead (physically, emotionally) for years. As I put in my letter to my W:

 

I don’t feelhate. I don’t feel anger. I don’t feel bitterness. I feel…..empty. I feel indifference. I realized that I needto move forward with my own life, so that I can feel happy – so that I can feelself-worth, so that I don’t feel like I have to escape to work every day, andstay long hours because I simply don’t like sitting at home, in my office,staring at a computer screen that shows me nothing but what a failure I havebecome as a husband.

 

I don’t wanta roommate any more. I know, and have known for some time, that I am not inlove with you anymore. I think you know that.

 

...and one of my friends asked me if I would have left my W if I had not been with the MOW. I realized that I probably would have stayed in that hell, continuing to pretend that the contempt that I felt was actually contentment.

 

So, she, the MOW was my catalyst, and yes, I fell in love with her.

 

I would have liked to stay with her, but while I had moved on, years ago, from my failure, she had not, and perhaps she didn't understand the true extent to which I had. We were in different places of our grieving, at different emotional levels as pertains to love, and ultimately, she decided that she needed to go forward on her own.

 

She ended our relationship 6 days ago. I miss her, and it hurts like hell, but I'm still moving forward, and am doing NC so that I can try and fix this broken machine.

 

I won't lie - if she comes back, says she made a mistake and she wants to try again, fresh and new, I will open my arms to her completely.

 

But...I know in my heart that this won't happen, and that makes it hurt even more.

[HPrynne]

I'm sorry for your pain, blacknoir. Thank you for sharing your perspective. My MOM, I think, feels very similarly to you about his M.

[EverySunset]

I left my M for me. WELL to be away from STBXH too, but I've littered LS with that yard of rubbish so I won't rehash lol

 

But my MM was the catalyst, too. I have known him half my life, and half that time as best friends. We gave each other much space when we married others, out of respect for our partners. Our chemistry is palpable and obvious, always has been apparently. Old friends like to pontificate about how we should have married each other back THEN.

 

Buuuut we didnt.

 

However like Anne's rules posted above, we know, and have always loved each other. Would I have stayed if not for him? Gods no. But I may not have bolted quite so fast. It had been a long time since I remembered what it was like for a partner to support me. Its uplifting. And with my crashed self esteem... so important.

 

Don't know if we're gonna make it yet. He's still entrenched. But not me. I left, and every single day that goes by is better than the day I left.

 

with, or without, my MM...

[blacknoir]

I'm sorry for your pain, blacknoir. Thank you for sharing your perspective. My MOM, I think, feels very similarly to you about his M.

 

What does he say when you ask him?

 

Actually.....have you asked him? If not, will you?

 

I was very upfront with my MOW - maybe too upfront. I showed her "the letter" that I wrote to, and read to, my W (honestly, it was 4-5 pages long and there was no way I'd be able to get through it all if I didn't write it down).

 

It was my way of showing to her that I wasn't leaving the M for her, it was for me, and this wasn't a snap decision...it was built over many, many years, and that's why my emotions (as pertains to my love for her (MOW)) were at a different stage. I had let go of my M, even before I truly acted upon it.

 

I wish you the best - I truly do.

[HPrynne]

MOM and his W have some deep incompatibility - things he saw before they married, but he believed he could fix those things with love or they would change. I think he looks back and feels that it was a mistake to marry her, and that if he had understood that she would not change (a common mistake, right?), he would not have gone forward with it. Can't undo what's done, though.

 

 

MOM and I have been very upfront with one another from the start. I don't know that I've asked him about his M, but I didn't need to, because he's told me. For him, this has been the catalyst to see that no matter what, he can't stay in the M; he has said as much to me and we have been entirely straightforward with one another so I have no reason to think it's anything but the truth - or at least, the truth as he knows it, as he shares it with me.

 

 

Thank you for the good wishes. I know this is going to be difficult.

[Artie Lang]

i'm curious... don't you think this epiphany- concerning an unsatisfying/unfulfilling marriage -could've been reached without having an affair.

 

i mean seriously, you pretty much jumped ship only to land on someone else's deck without really getting to the crux of went wrong. did you ever think it might've actually been you and not your spouse who was the problem?

 

 

sorry for the t/j.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Artie Lang

[Artie Lang]

btw, clever reference to the Scarlett Letter in your username.

[txgrl]

i kno, very clever reference: I mean it as a compliment.

 

H, There's a recent thread by a mrs. Scarlet here who left her M for AP and got together with him and now has broken up and depply regretting it. some here are adamant that having an A and leaving spouses for APs was the only way to go.

 

I vehemently disagree with leaving M for AP. Even when you say you aren't, you are ...if the AP is still in the picture, still in the equation in your mind, you're doing it for him. How do i know?? I almost did it, initiated D telling myself I'm not doing this for OM, this is purely because the M is numb, i feel numb, H has issues, I have issues, M has issues, H and I will be better off without each other.... you name it, I looked at every single angle from which breaking up a M and family for AP could make sense, it didn;t.

 

I know what you're feeling and thinking right now. cut the OM out of your life( you might reconnect later if M doesn't work out) . He should respect your decision to give your M a real honest sincere shot. do things for and with H. talk about what you want.

 

When i tried walking away from what I had with H but was taking for granted, my heart was breaking so bad...Thank God I stopped the D and that has been one of the best decisions i ever made.

A s are a very dishonorable and hurtful way to end things. if you must end a M, do it with dignity and self respect and respect for others.

 

i truly wish you the best. i wish i could pm you and tell you some other things too but please, don't sacrifice your M for an A. No one ever regretted ending an A, MANY people regretted ending M especially for an AP.

[Anne Boleyn]

No one ever regretted ending an A, MANY people regretted ending M especially for an AP.

 

People have ended their A's and regretted it... This forum is full of those stories. To say that "no one ever" regretted ending their A is clearly false. I regret my attempts to end our affair, and my husband says his greatest regret was ending our relationship and trying to reconcile with his wife.

 

Regret is a funny thing... There's no universal thing that causes it. It's subjective based on experiences, desires, goals, expectations... So you regret trying to end your marriage for your AP, but that doesn't mean all do. And by what the OP says, she's clearly given a lot of thought to it, even the negatives. Maybe in a week, a year, a month, and hour she'll feel differently... That's her story. But to say to somebody who seems like she's given it a lot of thought, who's asking for advice on the transition, that because you did it and didn't think it over as well as you did and she'll regret it like you did... Not only isn't that what she's asking, it's disingenuous.

[txgrl]

OP has asked for opinions from BOTH sides,

 

I would really like to hear from those who have made similar choices, to end their Ms and be with the AP, especially where that path has worked out, but also where it has not, to hopefully learn and get insight on that as well'

 

I gave her my opinion . You're welcome to give your opinion , no need to attack me .

[cocorico]

I would really like to hear from those who have made similar choices, to end their Ms and be with the AP, especially where that path has worked out, but also where it has not, to hopefully learn and get insight on that as well.

 

My H ended his M to be with me. I know the advice is always that you should never end your M for someone else, you should end it for yourself, and you should end it confident that you would make the same decision whether or not the other person was there for you... but reality tends to be a little more complicated. My H would, in all likelihood! not have left his BW when he did were it not for our A. He had taken her back - against his better judgment - because of the kids' suffering, and, having decided to place their happiness ahead of his own, he would likely have stuck it out until they left home. So his decision to leave was certainly catalysed by me, and our A, however true it is that he left because his M was toxic.

 

I second Anne B's qualifies about love and trust. In the stories you read on these boards, the Rs that started as As that fail tend to do so because of a breakdown of trust, or because the "love" was imbued with illusion. You don't have to have farts and skidmarks (which some here claim are the hallmarks of "real" love rather than infatuation....) but you do have to know, and accept, the darker side of your lover, and expose yourself similarly to them, to know if you have sufficient compatibility.

 

I would add a couple of other considerations:

 

* values - more than anything, your values need to be sufficiently aligned. This includes things like your feelings about your A - this will become part of your shared history. If one person is happy to be open about it, and the other harbours guilt / shame to the extent of wanting to write a different, public history to present to others who ask, this is a point of potential friction. You need to agree about what really matters to you, and have sufficient agreement on those issues.

 

* kids. If either, or both of you have, blending families presents a challenge. It can also keep Xs in the loop, at least for a while, depending on the age of the kids. Friction can easily arise as loyalties get challenged. Also, if at least one of you wants kids together, this is another tricky area. We were lucky in that my kids are older, and his were older teens at the point of the split / our M. They chose to live with us, though we tried to keep their R with their mother constructive, and they have since left home.

 

* extended family, and friends. What support systems do you have, and how open will they be to embracing your new partner? What residual loyalties will they feel to your X, and how will you manage that transition? Again, we were lucky in this as his family had never been close to her, had not liked how she treated him (or them!) and so had been really welcoming of me during the A. Similarly with his friends. And for him, their support during the split, their affirmation that he was doing the right thing, was invaluable. If you do not have a supportive group of family / friends - or worse, have one which is hostile to the split - it can be very difficult.

 

* money. Splits and repartnering are very costly, and particularly if there are residual financial considerations (eg child support, alimony, etc) to factor into your new life together. Shared property divided up and the complex issue of rewriting wills will involve lawyers and will also trigger emotional responses. Try to be rational, with settlements that are fair but not overly generous in either direction so that there is minimal bad feeling or resentment, and get an ANC for your new M if you plan to M.

 

* you may want some couples counselling! to ensure that the communication etc habits you develop early on in your post-A R are healthy and sustainable. Remember, you boh have years of ingrained dysfunction from your old Ms, and you don't want to be dragging that into your new R. It's not a must, but it can be helpful.

 

Good luck!

[Anne Boleyn]

OP has asked for opinions from BOTH sides,

 

I would really like to hear from those who have made similar choices, to end their Ms and be with the AP, especially where that path has worked out, but also where it has not, to hopefully learn and get insight on that as well'

 

I gave her my opinion . You're welcome to give your opinion , no need to attack me .

 

She wanted to hear and get insight from both sides. Insight is:

 

"I did it, I didn't think it over like I should have, I stopped my D because I was regretting my choice. When you're in the same boat, think of X, Y, and Z to help you make an informed decision."

 

Saying:

 

"Don't do it, you'll regret it, it's a dishonorable way to end a marriage, nobody regrets ending an affair but people regret their divorces, don't do it because I did it and regretted it... Dump OM and go back to your H and make it work" is not insight, it's projecting onto her what happened to you, judgment for doing something you don't agree with, and not providing feedback beyond how she is doing wrong for no reason beyond it bothering you.

 

There's this prevailing attitude here of late, the one of answering people's questions with an attitude of "there's my way, then there's the wrong way." Even on threads like this, where she's clearly made up her mind and just wants to hear about the transition, the interjecting of opinion on what she's doing and judgement on her for doing it is not only exactly not what she's asked for, but it's against the point of the forum in the first place.

 

So you tried to do it, got cold feet, went back, and now you feel things are better. That's very good for you. But make sure that when you see somebody who's in a similar situation, you're answering the question they have or are describing the experience they're asking about, not projecting your situation/guilt onto them, making the discussion about you and your choices, not them and theirs. There's a very big difference between "I nearly did it and almost ruined my life" and "I nearly did it and almost ruined my life, like you're ruining yours now."

Edited March 1, 2014 by Anne Boleyn

[txgrl]

Ok . Agreed

 

OP, I thought and thought about it and looked at it from every angle, planned and planned, talked to OM , talked to H , ... An then .. I came to the conclusion that while the OM is in the picture , the thought process is clouded and confused and conflicted . Life altering decisions should not be made in that frame of mind .A marriage should be broken up or continued without the influence of a third party because the presence of an AP tends to magnify the problems in a M .

 

you can always reconnect with OM later if M doesn't work out .

 

And no matter what people say , an A is a dishonorable act whether you end up with your AP or not, whether your H/W are totally worthless people . They still deserve the respect and dignity of a D, not a hushhush A.

[HPrynne]

I wrote a very long reply, and then when I went to submit, it asked me to re-login and it disappeared. Super irritated.

 

So now this one will be much shorter!

 

Thank you to Anne Boleyn and cocorico especially for things to think about. It is actually very reassuring because MOM and I have discussed all of these, most in depth, and the outlook is good.

 

Artie Lang, suffice to say that the realization was not that I was unhappy or unfulfilled. I was well aware of that, for years, and had communicated the same and the reasons for it to my H, who repeatedly refused to change, go to MC, and/or get any of the medical, psychiatric or other treatment that I sought and encouraged. Instead, the realization was that the marriage had already ended and my feelings were dead (and had been for some time). I know that all of my friends and family will be supportive and, frankly, relieved to hear that the M is ending. I don't feel I can go into more detail than that on such a public forum. While I can now see where I erred in the marriage, and hope that helps forge stronger relationships in the future, I'm comfortable in the knowledge that I am not, as you put it, "the problem." Thanks for challenging me and asking a thought-provoking question.

 

Txgrl, although I don't entirely agree with you, I appreciate and respect your perspective and opinions and thank you for sharing them. I am not denying my H the dignity of a D. That is what we are doing now. We can't erase what we've done - the A - but we are not going to perpetuate it any more than necessary. We are both taking concrete steps now to end our Ms. Again, I can't undo what's done. I can only do things as best I can going forward.

 

Thanks for the love on the screen name. I have always appreciated that Hester Prynne accepted the consequences of her actions and her punishment while simultaneously declaring her love for the positive aspects of that error - her daughter and her regard for her lover.

[txgrl]

Wishing you much peace and happiness

[violet1]

I know quite a few couples IRL who started out as affairs. They seem happy, but the fact that their relationships started out as an affair is still discussed. If you can handle the general negativity you'll be fine.

 

My question for you and others that left your M for the AP, what is the appeal? Why do you want to jump from one relationship to another? My personal opinion is that people who do this are afraid of being alone. My exMM future faked a lot, but when I thought about it realistically, I knew there was no way. Yes, I was very much afraid of being alone btw.