If a MM jokes about having sex with me ... do I take it seriously?

[the_entertainer1]

I wasn't sure where to post this ... it's not an affair. I don't want it to be an affair ... but I think it's got potential, which I'm trying to avoid. I just want the advice of people with experience of affairs ...

 

Here's the context:

 

It's a former colleague of mine. We worked together around 18 months ago. We're both teachers and I taught both his teenage kids. I've met his wife a few times and have even been over to their place (once, for a few minutes, to pick up some books.) There is a large age-gap between us (he's 51, I'm 24) but he is acknowledged by many women I used to work with, as a good looking guy.

 

I used to have a crush on him, but do not anymore. I found that we actually have some common interests and find his more mature perspective quite interesting.

 

We've kept in touch a little bit since I moved workplaces. I've had meetings at the former workplace so I've often popped in to see him (and others) if I've been there. We had drinks after work once. I felt like he flirted a bit, but I don't think I really encouraged him. I didn't feel like it crossed any lines. Anyway ...

 

Last week we realised we were going to cross paths at a work thing, but I got caught in traffic. I texted him to let him know and he replied: "beers another time". I ran into him yesterday, unexpectedly. It was at the same work thing as last week, which runs for another month or so. There were students everywhere, so we only chatted for about 10 minutes. We had a short convo about work stuff, and then he raised the idea of catching up (i.e. beers.) I told him to let me know when he was free, but suggested maybe the same time next week. He said he'd have to work around picking his kids up from school.

 

He then said (I couldn't tell if he was joking or not) that his wife had seen his phone messages (there was nothing incriminating, just the idea of catching up) and he then joked to me that he'd said to her "well, we only had sex once, but it didn't mean anything." I played along with his joke and said "I can't believe it didn't mean anything to you!" He laughed. The fact that he said that freaked me out a bit though. Not in a "creepy" way, but because it made me realise that my actions might have unintended consequences and he might actually think I want an affair. Which I don't. And if his wife did see? I don't want her to think badly of me, or like I'm trying to have sex with her husband. I'm not.

 

If I'm being completely honest, I think I like the somewhat flirtatious banter. I know that a MM is not a good place to get it, but I originally thought it would be "safe" when we worked together ... that he wouldn't do anything because he's married. (I was only 22 when we started working together, with very little life experience.)

 

I do not want an affair with this guy. But I'd like to catch up with him; it can be in a group, I don't care. He can bring his wife along if he wants. Or, I currently work with a lady who he went to uni with. Maybe the three of us could catch up. I'll stick to water.

 

- Am I worrying unintentionally? Was he just joking?

- Was his joke meant to tell me that he's thought about us having sex? (Then again, I think that most guys in relationships have thought about sex with others at one point or another.)

- Am I unintentionally giving him signals that I want an affair?

- Do you think his wife has seen his phone? Or was he bringing up his wife as a warning?

- Is it possible for two people to have banter like this, enjoy it, but not take it further? (I don't want to take it further - i.e. anything physically or emotionally intimate).

 

 

I know some people here will be critical of me. I can almost pinpoint who (but I won't name names!) You'll say I've given it too much thought. That's just me. I'm an analytical person. I overthink things. I probably care too much about what others think, but in any situation, I try to consider every aspect. Anyway, if you're going to be critical ... that's not the advice I need. I've already said I'm not going to have an affair with the guy. I know I probably shouldn't meet him alone. So I won't. But my questions above - please answer them

 

Thanks in advance.

[RightThere]

- Am I worrying unintentionally? Was he just joking?

- Was his joke meant to tell me that he's thought about us having sex? (Then again, I think that most guys in relationships have thought about sex with others at one point or another.)

- Am I unintentionally giving him signals that I want an affair?

- Do you think his wife has seen his phone? Or was he bringing up his wife as a warning?

- Is it possible for two people to have banter like this, enjoy it, but not take it further? (I don't want to take it further - i.e. anything physically or emotionally intimate).

 

He's trolling. He threw out that comment to test the waters. If you got offended, he would have turned it back on you saying "I was just joking." If you had a more flirtatious reaction to him ("maybe we should try it again so we remember"), he may have tried to take it up another notch.

 

I don't know if he has done this type of thing before, but it's definitely on his radar with a comment like that.

[Popsicle]

but I originally thought it would be "safe" when we worked together ... that he wouldn't do anything because he's married.

 

This is EXACTLY what I thought when I started flirting with a MM. Boy, was I wrong. They WILL take the bait and then I'll be in a mess. I learned never to do that again.

[Speakingofwhich]

[quote=the_entertainer1;5555746

If I'm being completely honest, I think I like the somewhat flirtatious banter.

 

I do not want an affair with this guy. But I'd like to catch up with him; it can be in a group, I don't care. He can bring his wife along if he wants. Or, I currently work with a lady who he went to uni with. Maybe the three of us could catch up. I'll stick to water.

- Am I worrying unintentionally? No. Was he just joking? Yes and no.

- Was his joke meant to tell me that he's thought about us having sex? Yes.(Then again, I think that most guys in relationships have thought about sex with others at one point or another.) But they don't always tell the person they've thought about having it with that they want to have it.

- Am I unintentionally giving him signals that I want an affair? You are giving him signals that he is interesting to you. You didn't really need to text him from your car to let him know you were going to be late to the event. Unless the two of you planned to meet together there (which makes it a kind of date). That kind of thing can be the first step on a stairway that leads to an affair. It's a tiny step and doesn't have to lead there but you need steps like this in order to get to the affair. So, he tried to take it another step up to see if you'd go for it.

- Do you think his wife has seen his phone? If you believe he tells the truth then you have to believe she saw the phone. If you already don't trust him then I guess the answer is maybe she saw it, maybe she didn't. Or was he bringing up his wife as a warning? Maybe, maybe not.

- Is it possible for two people to have banter like this, enjoy it, but not take it further? (I don't want to take it further - i.e. anything physically or emotionally intimate). Yes, it's possible. But, if it you enjoy it, it's possible it will lead to more intimate banter gradually. Why risk it? Some affairs begin this way, with no intention on either side for it to lead anywhere. This guy is known to be a good-looking guy and he's demonstrating he knows his way around the block. Take it or leave it.

 

 

I know some people here will be critical of me. I can almost pinpoint who (but I won't name names!) You'll say I've given it too much thought. That's just me. I'm an analytical person. I overthink things. I probably care too much about what others think, but in any situation, I try to consider every aspect. Anyway, if you're going to be critical ... that's not the advice I need. I've already said I'm not going to have an affair with the guy. I know I probably shouldn't meet him alone. So I won't. But my questions above - please answer them

 

Thanks in advance.

 

See bolded above.

[spice4life]

What he said was highly inappropriate and it was definitely a fishing attempt to see how far you are willing to go. Do not joke back at comments like that because it will give him the green light to continue reeling you in. Trust me on this. He's telling you two things: 1) he's married and is staying that way and 2) he wants to bang you. Period end.

 

Holy cow. I wonder if this guy knows how transparent his whole being is. So unattractive. Yuck.

 

My only advice is to listen to what people tell you here before you allow yourself to get caught up in the attention any further. There is no way to stop him except go complete NC and avoid him like the plague. If you try to send him an explanation as to why you aren't interested he won't read those words. He will only view you as a challenge and will keep pushing until he wears you down. Don't give him that opportunity.

 

Ugh. These guys are pain in the a**! You try the nice route and brush him off nicely and they don't give a sh*t because any form of communication to them means they have chance.

 

As a matter of fact, forget everything I just said because there is only ONE thing you can do and that is tell his wife and block him completely out of your life. That'll keep him busy for a while. Guys like him view their wives as Mommy and go around getting themselves into trouble only to run back to "Mommy" for shelter and a spanking. Eww! He's a player, liar and a coward.

 

Run like the wind and don't look back. You've been warned.

Edited February 28, 2014 by spice4life

[the_entertainer1]

What he said was highly inappropriate and it was definitely a fishing attempt to see how far you are willing to go. Do not joke back at comments like that because it will give him the green light to continue reeling you in. Trust me on this. He's telling you two things: 1) he's married and is staying that way and 2) he wants to bang you. Period end.

 

I'm glad you interpreted it that way too. I was actually kind of offended that he said "it didn't mean anything" even though he was joking about something that hadn't actually happened!

 

Holy cow. I wonder if this guy knows how transparent his whole being is. So unattractive. Yuck.

 

After reading what you've said, it's interesting to think about how things have escalated since we first met. Many of the women I used to work with think he's the most "gentlemanly" guy there. He seems almost a bit aloof at times - a couple of women have compared him to the character of Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice / or Mark Darcy in Bridget Jones' Diary. But now I'm starting to realise that there might be this whole other side to him.

 

My gut feeling is that he used to be a player but is a bit "rusty".

 

My only advice is to listen to what people tell you here before you allow yourself to get caught up in the attention any further. There is no way to stop him except go complete NC and avoid him like the plague. If you try to send him an explanation as to why you aren't interested he won't read those words. He will only view you as a challenge and will keep pushing until he wears you down. Don't give him that opportunity.

 

Ugh. These guys are pain in the a**! You try the nice route and brush him off nicely and they don't give a sh*t because any form of communication to them means they have chance.

 

As a matter of fact, forget everything I just said because there is only ONE thing you can do and that is tell his wife and block him completely out of your life. That'll keep him busy for a while. Guys like him view their wives as Mommy and go around getting themselves into trouble only to run back to "Mommy" for shelter and a spanking. Eww! He's a player, liar and a coward.

 

Run like the wind and don't look back. You've been warned.

 

It's great advice, thanks. It is kind of a shame, because we actually have things in common and he's an interesting person, regardless of the undercurrent. But with that comment - it rang alarm bells that signalled that this whole thing has gone too far already. Far enough that I shouldn't be alone with him - because I think that if I continue to try to catch up, he'll interpret it the wrong way.

[the_entertainer1]

This is EXACTLY what I thought when I started flirting with a MM. Boy, was I wrong. They WILL take the bait and then I'll be in a mess. I learned never to do that again.

 

I think he actually started it ... but I didn't shut him down completely. As I said, I thought it was harmless. Obviously, that's very rare!

[jwi71]

... I felt like he flirted a bit, but I don't think I really encouraged him. I didn't feel like it crossed any lines. Anyway ...

 

Red flag number one...flirting is a low-level sexual advance.

 

He then said (I couldn't tell if he was joking or not) that his wife had seen his phone messages (there was nothing incriminating, just the idea of catching up) and he then joked to me that he'd said to her "well, we only had sex once, but it didn't mean anything." I played along with his joke and said "I can't believe it didn't mean anything to you!" He laughed. The fact that he said that freaked me out a bit though. Not in a "creepy" way, but because it made me realise that my actions might have unintended consequences and he might actually think I want an affair.

 

This does not strike me as a normal thing to say.

 

If I'm being completely honest, I think I like the somewhat flirtatious banter. I know that a MM is not a good place to get it, but I originally thought it would be "safe" when we worked together ... that he wouldn't do anything because he's married. (I was only 22 when we started working together, with very little life experience.)

They all start with illusions of control.

Be mindful.

 

I do not want an affair with this guy. But I'd like to catch up with him; it can be in a group, I don't care. He can bring his wife along if he wants. Or, I currently work with a lady who he went to uni with. Maybe the three of us could catch up. I'll stick to water.

Invite the W.

 

- Am I worrying unintentionally? Was he just joking?

Certainly an odd thing for him to say. You, at one point, had some level of desire for him - which adds to the danger.

 

- Was his joke meant to tell me that he's thought about us having sex? (Then again, I think that most guys in relationships have thought about sex with others at one point or another.)

If I meet 20 women in a day...I've used x-ray eyes 19. Means nothing in my book.

- Am I unintentionally giving him signals that I want an affair?

If you suspect you are then they are subconcious. In other words...out of your control. Another red flag.

 

- Do you think his wife has seen his phone? Or was he bringing up his wife as a warning?

Whats the worry? It was all innocent yes?

Seriously...what is the worry?

 

- Is it possible for two people to have banter like this, enjoy it, but not take it further? (I don't want to take it further - i.e. anything physically or emotionally intimate).

I do not believe so. Its is most certainly possible to have opposite sex friends...I have some as my W has friends who are male. No flirting. No crossing the line. Friends.

 

You cannot say this innocent and then speak to liking the flirting. Would you appreciate your BF/SO/H flirting? There's your answer.

 

Basically, your post strikes me as one seeking validation to continue flirting with him alone.

 

I see many red flags...including your missive on "not wanting certain answers"...

 

I would say its a dangerous game you play, but I think you have already decided to be "Friends" and just "flirt"...because it feels "good".

[spice4life]

I'm glad you interpreted it that way too. I was actually kind of offended that he said "it didn't mean anything" even though he was joking about something that hadn't actually happened!

 

 

 

After reading what you've said, it's interesting to think about how things have escalated since we first met. Many of the women I used to work with think he's the most "gentlemanly" guy there. He seems almost a bit aloof at times - a couple of women have compared him to the character of Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice / or Mark Darcy in Bridget Jones' Diary. But now I'm starting to realise that there might be this whole other side to him.

 

My gut feeling is that he used to be a player but is a bit "rusty".

 

 

 

It's great advice, thanks. It is kind of a shame, because we actually have things in common and he's an interesting person, regardless of the undercurrent. But with that comment - it rang alarm bells that signalled that this whole thing has gone too far already. Far enough that I shouldn't be alone with him - because I think that if I continue to try to catch up, he'll interpret it the wrong way.

 

The bolded is spot on. Believe me, I completely understand. You just have to accept the fact that those traits aren't worth throwing your whole life into chaos. There are other people out there who have them and will respect your boundaries at the same time. Better to cut the loss and scram.

[the_entertainer1]

Basically, your post strikes me as one seeking validation to continue flirting with him alone.

 

I see many red flags...including your missive on "not wanting certain answers"...

 

I would say its a dangerous game you play, but I think you have already decided to be "Friends" and just "flirt"...because it feels "good".

 

 

Thanks for your response. I don't think I'm seeking validation to continue. As I said, we have some things in common and I actually like the perspective and life experience that comes from friendships with older people. I didn't have that, very much, before I became a teacher. I like the friendship, but I recognise that there is some danger involved. I'm just not sure it's worth it.

[the_entertainer1]

The bolded is spot on. Believe me, I completely understand. You just have to accept the fact that those traits aren't worth throwing your whole life into chaos. There are other people out there who have them and will respect your boundaries at the same time. Better to cut the loss and scram.

 

Yeah, I know. Do you think it would be possible to do the catch up, but in a group situation? I now work with a lady who he went to uni with (probably before I was born!) We've all been mentioning catching up for a drink together since I started working with her. But would that be a "safe" environment? Or shall I just avoid him as much as possible?

[spice4life]

Yeah, I know. Do you think it would be possible to do the catch up, but in a group situation? I now work with a lady who he went to uni with (probably before I was born!) We've all been mentioning catching up for a drink together since I started working with her. But would that be a "safe" environment? Or shall I just avoid him as much as possible?

 

Nope. I would just avoid him and move on. Any attention is attenton crowds or otherwise. These guys look for any opportunity they can to put the moves on. The more I think about it you have to block him from communicating period. Then work on your *b*tch* skills so guys like this will get the message to not even try that crap with you. Guys take nice friendly girls as an easy mark even though you know you're not. Be a b*tch and save yourself the aggrevation!

[ascendotum]

He could easily be fishing for a reaction as RT said, but also possibly not. All we have to go on is one sexual comment that was said in a jokey manner. there is no escalating trend of dirty jokes, or talk about sex here. There is nothing wrong with flirting between co-workers either to spice up the work day...as long as its not done in a sleazy manner, and both enjoy the banter, and the vibe of being appreciated/desired, but without stepping over the line.

 

I don't agree with the comments that it was 'highly inappropriate' with someone you have known for a while and get on well with, but of course one person's definition of inappropriate will be different from anothers. You'd hope to have a good feeling for the nature of the other person & the friendship when you crack that joke like he did.

[whichwayisup]

You used to work with him 18 months ago, haven't seen him and ran into him, twice - Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't bother with the meeting up for beers. You two aren't 'friends'. He's married and already you're questioning this.

 

And:

 

I'm glad you interpreted it that way too. I was actually kind of offended that he said "it didn't mean anything" even though he was joking about something that hadn't actually happened!

 

You were offended his joking about you two having sex didn't mean anything, and the fact that you used to have a crush on him, you took it personally. You're over thinking this and chances are it's harmless but going out and having a few beers is asking for trouble.

[the_entertainer1]

You used to work with him 18 months ago, haven't seen him and ran into him, twice - Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't bother with the meeting up for beers. You two aren't 'friends'. He's married and already you're questioning this.

 

And:

 

You were offended his joking about you two having sex didn't mean anything, and the fact that you used to have a crush on him, you took it personally. You're over thinking this and chances are it's harmless but going out and having a few beers is asking for trouble.

 

I see your point - but for the sake of brevity in my initial post, I didn't mention that we'd seen each other every couple of months when I'd had to go visit his work for meetings (not with him - but I'd pop in and say hi). I also went on an overseas holiday to somewhere he'd once lived, and I ended up going to his place (when his whole family was there) to pick up some travel books. So it's not like we've only seen each other twice in 18 months.

 

Ok, maybe I'm overthinking. But I'd rather overthink than run headfirst into a potential problem!

[spice4life]

He could easily be fishing for a reaction as RT said, but also possibly not. All we have to go on is one sexual comment that was said in a jokey manner. there is no escalating trend of dirty jokes, or talk about sex here. There is nothing wrong with flirting between co-workers either to spice up the work day...as long as its not done in a sleazy manner, and both enjoy the banter, and the vibe of being appreciated/desired, but without stepping over the line.

 

I don't agree with the comments that it was 'highly inappropriate' with someone you have known for a while and get on well with, but of course one person's definition of inappropriate will be different from anothers. You'd hope to have a good feeling for the nature of the other person & the friendship when you crack that joke like he did.

 

There isn't right now, but if she continues in that direction there will be more jokes and so on. But anyway...JMO.

[Secret Advisor]

Red flag number one...flirting is a low-level sexual advance.

 

 

 

 

You cannot say this innocent and then speak to liking the flirting. Would you appreciate your BF/SO/H flirting? There's your answer.

 

Basically, your post strikes me as one seeking validation to continue flirting with him alone.

 

I see many red flags...including your missive on "not wanting certain answers"...

 

I would say its a dangerous game you play, but I think you have already decided to be "Friends" and just "flirt"...because it feels "good".

 

Exactly on point. This entire post is seeking validation that this man is actually interested in her in a sexual way. If you read her previous posts, it is clear that she has an obsession with him and has done her best to get some kind of attention from him. Then there's the older guy she says she has been having cybersex with FOR OVER A YEAR. And a string of boyfriends or not quite boyfriends in between.

 

The more I read your posts, the more I think that you need to have a chat with a therapist. You appear to have a deep confusion between fantasy and reality.

[the_entertainer1]

Exactly on point. This entire post is seeking validation that this man is actually interested in her in a sexual way. If you read her previous posts, it is clear that she has an obsession with him and has done her best to get some kind of attention from him. Then there's the older guy she says she has been having cybersex with FOR OVER A YEAR. And a string of boyfriends or not quite boyfriends in between.

 

The more I read your posts, the more I think that you need to have a chat with a therapist. You appear to have a deep confusion between fantasy and reality.

 

Secret Advisor I don't know why you continually seek to vilify me.

 

I am here asking for supportive advice to help me navigate a difficult situation. I would like to remain on friendly terms with this man, but acknowledge that the circumstances are unusual, and may prevent that from happening. I have no intention of pursuing him in a sexual/romantic way. Furthermore, I am not "obsessed" with him as you suggest - if I were, I would not have made the attempts to date other guys that I have. I have only been on dates with five guys over the past year. There is no "string" of boyfriends - I've still never gone further than kissing. If you read some of the other threads on dating, you'll see that my pattern of dating is not dissimilar to others (except that most people would have probably gone further than kissing.) How does the fact that I'm trying to learn about relationships and find the right guy for me, through cybersex and going on dates with guys, show that I have a "deep confusion between fantasy and reality?"

 

Personally, I think your attempts to convince others of my unscrupulousness contradicts the very spirit of this forum, which is supposed to provide an "open, friendly" community which fosters "an environment free of harassment [and] character attacks."

[Secret Advisor]

If supportive advice means agreeing with you and encouraging you on a path to heartache and grief, then I am not being supportive.

 

You have (or had) a crush on a married coworker twice your age. You continue to ask questions about what others think his intentions may be. Ordinarily, a young woman would be creeped out by what he says and would stop communicating with him. Yet you seem to want to keep on communicating with him, within what you think are your own parameters. Good luck with that.

 

Then there is another married man twice your age that you have been regularly engaging in cybersex with, although you say you are a virgin. You also claim to be in love with this person.

 

Lastly, you have in your own words dated five guys in the past year, not of which became a permanent relationship.

 

It is clear to me that your fantasies with married men twice your age is having an effect on your real-life dating experience and there is some element of confusion between the two. If you are unable to see this on your own, it might be helpful to talk it over with a professional. That is all I am saying.