Only kissing - but it still hurts.

[A little bit Chewy]

Hello all! I stumbled on this forum while googling and thought that posting here might give me some advice or tools to move forward. Sorry in advance for the wall of text or too many details. I don't really have anyone I can talk to.

 

I guess I'd be the BS. I've been married to my husband for 10 years.

 

Very recently, I went out camping with my husband and kids as well as with my best friend and her family. We've both have 3 children. After the kids were in bed we were all sitting by the fire drinking (except me, I don't drink much). Best friend's husband passed out, and I went to bed shortly there after expecting my husband to follow along right after he was done his drink. I wake up a few hours later and he's still not in the tent. I stick my head out the tent flap and hear some pretty disturbing conversation:

 

"Its going to be awkward tomorrow"

"What are we going to tell them? We need to get our stories straight".

"I'm not so trashy that I would go f**k in a bush".

 

My heart was beating like a drum and I just sat there for a good 10 minutes waiting to hear anything else incriminating. Then I think I see them kiss. The angle was bad, so I didn't see lips on lips, but head movements and kissing sounds were pretty obvious. I couldn't believe it. I did some mental gymnastics to try and figure out what else it could have been because I couldn't possibly have seen what I just saw. I jumped out of the tent and asked what was going on - my friend up and ran to her tent and my husband wouldn't make eye contact. I wanted privacy so asked him to take a walk around the camp with me... he was so drunk he couldn't walk without being supported and fell a few times.

 

From the drunk-walk conversation, I got no confession and he wouldn't/couldn't answer my questions. He said some pretty disturbing things though: "Divorce me, I'm not worth you, I'm worthless. You are better than me, I'm a sack of ****. I should go up those cliffs and kill myself, but I'm too much of a coward. I've ruined my life for nothing". The suicide talk scared me because he's never said anything like this there were cliffs nearby. So I get him asap back to the tent and he passes out.

 

In the morning I act normally. Our kids are there, my friend's husband doesn't know. Its not the right place for confrontations. However, do take another walk around camp with husband. He claims he remembers nothing. I believe him. I tell him what I heard, but not what I saw. He agrees this sounds very very bad. We all leave the camp early. I'm in denial the rest of the day, at this point I am trying to think there is an alternate explanation.

 

The next morning I send my husband over to my friend's house to ask her what happened. My husband comes back about 15 minutes later saying that my friend also doesn't remember much, but that she confirmed that they kissed. Nothing else happened. She claims it was him that made the first move, but admits her own guilt for not saying no. She didn't know that I knew, and begged him not to tell me. She has not told her spouse. I don't want her to tell either, since our husbands work together and he will likely do something that causes both to lose their jobs.

 

She begged to come and talk to me, which I obliged. She's been acting like a caught lover - crying, apologizing profusely, buying me flowers and candy. She says this was a big mistake, she is begging for forgiveness even though she admits it would be hard for her to forgive me if the situation was reversed. I asked her for more details about that night, and despite obvious discomfort she told me as much as she remembered.

 

Husband has finally admitted he has an alcohol problem and has agreed to quit drinking 100%. He has been acting really attentive and kind. He's spending every available moment holding me. Its like he's wooing me again. I love it, but at the same time I'm wary.

 

I don't feel anger anymore, only sadness, disgust, and disappointment. I don't want to throw a marriage away over this. I know they have no emotional involvement and normally barely like each other, I know they aren't attracted to each other, I know that this wouldn't have happened without alcohol (though that's not an excuse). I have zero concerns that they have been involved before or will be again.

 

So, the issues I guess I've love insight or help with:

 

1. I can't get the sight/sound of him making out with another woman out of my head. It pops in and out of my mind randomly throughout the day and it disgusts me. I don't want to think of this. It makes me sad/angry. It seems counter-productive to dwell yet I can't stop.

 

2. I appreciate the efforts both parties are making to be extra nice, but at the same time it feels disingenuous. Like every nice thing they do for me I think "You are only doing this because you are trying to alleviate your own guilt". Like if they go out of their way X number of times they will be off the hook or something.

 

3. I feel shame and guilt, and then indignation because I shouldn't feel either. I don't want to tell my friends and family because they would see me as a victim or they would demonize my husband. I feel guilt because I keep getting mad at my husband every time I think about it. I wonder how long he will tolerate my bouncing emotions. He claims as long as it takes and seems sincere, but I don't like getting mad at him and making passive aggressive remarks. I'm letting this turn me into a lesser person, and I don't like that.

 

4. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? It was "only kissing". So many of you have been betrayed so much more severely. If it is just a molehill, why does this suck so freaking much??! The image I had of my husband has been shattered and so much complication has been introduced into my life because of this. GRRRR.

 

5. I feel like I am being forced into resuming my friendship with her even though right now I would prefer some space. We are neighbours, our spouses work together, our children play together. She has also said she doesn't know how she would explain our falling out to her own husband without telling him what happened. This feels like a threat - give me another chance or your financial future is in jeopardy. It feels manipulative.

 

6. I feel guilty for not telling her husband. But why should this ruin my life completely? This has turned ME into a bad person, and it wasn't even my freaking mistake!!

Anyway. That's my vent.

Edited February 26, 2014 by A little bit Chewy

[Spark1111]

hey Chewy.....all of what you are feeling is completely normal.

 

kids can still play but you do not have to see, nor forgive her right now. Tell her you need space. tell HER you remain unsure if YOU will inform her spouse so suggest she do so. tell her you will treat her respectfully in front of the kids BUT are not ready to resume the friendship......yet.

 

your H seems to be doing all the right things....but suicidal over a kiss? Idk....Are U SURE these two haven't been heating up for awhile? See if you can check cell phone records for texting between them.

 

I believe a the best defense is a good offense. All 4 of you should meet to discuss what happened and where to go from here.

 

It probably is the end of the friendship....as it should be, but it should not be the end of the job because who kissed who first is really a moot point and certainly no grounds for dismissal.

[A little bit Chewy]

hey Chewy.....all of what you are feeling is completely normal.

 

kids can still play but you do not have to see, nor forgive her right now. Tell her you need space. tell HER you remain unsure if YOU will inform her spouse so suggest she do so. tell her you will treat her respectfully in front of the kids BUT are not ready to resume the friendship......yet.

 

your H seems to be doing all the right things....but suicidal over a kiss? Idk....Are U SURE these two haven't been heating up for awhile? See if you can check cell phone records for texting between them.

 

I believe a the best defense is a good offense. All 4 of you should meet to discuss what happened and where to go from here.

 

It probably is the end of the friendship....as it should be, but it should not be the end of the job because who kissed who first is really a moot point and certainly no grounds for dismissal.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

The suicide comment I believe is a result of extreme drunkenness. Sober, he's certainly not talking like that. I'm very sure they haven't been heating up.

 

She's convinced her husband would become violent, as he's been violent towards men who have hit on her in the past. Its this violence and the explanation about what caused it that would cause job loss, not the actual kissing. Its a small office and this sort of thing wouldn't be tolerated. I have a very real fear about this. I would really prefer to keep her husband out of this.

 

But on the other hand I would want to know and wondering if she will tell him is causing me a lot of anxiety.

[janedoe67]

"Its going to be awkward tomorrow"

"What are we going to tell them? We need to get our stories straight".

"I'm not so trashy that I would go f**k in a bush".

 

They said this BEFORE this kiss

 

This makes me think that more than kissing happened.

 

Your husband DID cheat, whether it was "only kissing" or not and he needs to be remorseful and do whatever it takes to fix this.

[snappytomcat]

im sorry to say this,but I agree with the others,it does sound like something else happened,at least that night,and they are using the I cant remember,cause I was drunk excuse,i would check emails,texts.mm who cheat can be sly as a fox,sneaky liars,and look in the bs face,like nothing

[Artie Lang]

first off, i'd definetly tell her husband- he has a right to know. but, since this isn't possible given his supposed violent temperament, you need to start detaching and putting some distance between your family and this couple.

 

no good can come from keeping a friendship with them. it will be better in the long run for you and your marriage to eventually cut these people out of your lives completely.

[ladydesigner]

They said this BEFORE this kiss

 

This makes me think that more than kissing happened.

Your husband DID cheat, whether it was "only kissing" or not and he needs to be remorseful and do whatever it takes to fix this.

 

 

I agree with the poster above. In my case there was more than "just kissing" my WH lied to his therapist and to me until I found out the truth. I would go digging as you may have not gotten the entire truth. Something smells fishy about this....

[BHsigh]

"Its going to be awkward tomorrow"

"What are we going to tell them? We need to get our stories straight".

 

What story would they have to get straight if it was only a drunken kiss, seriously? And then that was followed by "I'm not so trashy that I would go f**k in a bush". That to me sounds like that's exactly what they did, but was wording it to sound like they wouldn't do just that, as part of "getting their sories straight".

 

I'm afraid that you have a bigger problem on your hand than just kissing. It's time for you to start checking up on him, cell phone, email, put a keylogger on the computer if he uses it, buy a VAR to put in his car.

 

If her husband reacts like that, and you're sure about it, I suggest that you don't tell him until you have more evidence, otherwise he'll blow up and you'll lose your chance to find evidence. But you will have to tell him eventually, they were prepared to make up a story to tell him before you caught them, he can't be as bad as they're making you think.

[A little bit Chewy]

I don't believe anything else happened. I do believe they made out more than once that evening. I believe he doesn't remember anything. My husband has had a drinking problem for years that I've tried to make him understand but that he has denied or minimized.

 

We have an open email, cell phone, and text policy, so I already have access to his phone and his email addresses. An emotional affair or sex is not something I am worried about or believe happened. They lack the opportunity. His emails go to my phone by default. Our bank sends me text messages every time a transaction is made. He's also a homebody. Its really not a possibility.

 

I am definitely hurt that they had the presence of mind to talk about covering up their actions, indicating they knew it was wrong but chose not to stop doing it. That bothers me a lot. What also bothers me is that it sounds like my husband was possibly suggesting something more than kissing, but that my friend refused him (as she seemed very insulted when she said she wasn't trashy enough to go f**k in the bushes). Which is kinda ridiculous since she was trashy enough to make out with my husband in the first place.

 

I'm not trying to be naive, nor do I think I'm being willfully ignorant. I've had these thoughts run through my head as well, I just really don't think they did. Who knows what might have happened though had I not woken up and interrupted. I think it might have progressed, but I don't think it did.

Edited February 26, 2014 by A little bit Chewy

[cozycottagelg]

I agree that I don't think it's anything that's been going on long term. If they were discussing the awkwardness of the situation, that says this is new. People who have long term affairs have already gotten over the awkward stage.

 

I do think it's really good you caught them in the act though. Because if they have the ability to do this to their spouses on a camping trip, it could have escalated quickly..

[A little bit Chewy]

no good can come from keeping a friendship with them. it will be better in the long run for you and your marriage to eventually cut these people out of your lives completely.

 

I agree. I just don't know how to do this.

[BHsigh]

I don't believe anything else happened. I do believe they made out more than once. I believe he doesn't remember anything. My husband has had a drinking problem for years that I've tried to make him understand but that he has denied or minimized.

 

We have an open email, cell phone, and text policy, so I already have access to his phone and his email addresses. An emotional affair or sex is not something I am worried about or believe happened.

 

I am definitely hurt that they had the presence of mind to talk about covering up their actions, indicating they knew it was wrong but chose not to stop doing it. That bothers me a lot. What also bothers me is that it sounds like my husband was possibly suggesting something more than kissing, but that my friend refused him (as she seemed very insulted when she said she wasn't trashy enough to go f**k in the bushes). Which is kinda ridiculous since she was trashy enough to make out with my husband in the first place.

 

I'm not trying to be naive, nor do I think I'm being willfully ignorant. I've had these thoughts run through my head as well, I just really don't think they did. Who knows what might have happened though had I not woken up and interrupted. I think it might have progressed, but I don't think it did.

 

That right there tells you everything.

 

Your first mistake was sending him to talk to her to ask what happened, it gave them a huge opportunity to "get their story straight" while sober, you should have been the one to ask her. 15 minutes is a lot of time when you are right next door, too long, this was a five minute phone call at best (with you listening in).

 

Do you know for certain that your husband doesn't have a burner phone? Or a secret email account?

 

But anyways, if you're not going to explore that risk, then all that I have to say is, you should tell her husband what happened, but you have to drop her as a friend, and your husband does as well.

[A little bit Chewy]

I agree that I don't think it's anything that's been going on long term. If they were discussing the awkwardness of the situation, that says this is new. People who have long term affairs have already gotten over the awkward stage.

 

I do think it's really good you caught them in the act though. Because if they have the ability to do this to their spouses on a camping trip, it could have escalated quickly..

 

That bothers me as well. Our children were sleeping in a tent only meters away. How could it even enter your mind to do something like that with your kids right there? Nasty.

[BHsigh]

I agree. I just don't know how to do this.

 

Why is this your problem? Let your husband work this part out, and let your neighbor take care of explaining to her husband why you aren't friends anymore.

[A little bit Chewy]

That right there tells you everything.

 

Your first mistake was sending him to talk to her to ask what happened, it gave them a huge opportunity to "get their story straight" while sober, you should have been the one to ask her. 15 minutes is a lot of time when you are right next door, too long, this was a five minute phone call at best (with you listening in).

 

Do you know for certain that your husband doesn't have a burner phone? Or a secret email account?

 

But anyways, if you're not going to explore that risk, then all that I have to say is, you should tell her husband what happened, but you have to drop her as a friend, and your husband does as well.

 

I agree, I think in hindsight a phone call with me listening in would have been a better option.

[A little bit Chewy]

Why is this your problem? Let your husband work this part out, and let your neighbor take care of explaining to her husband why you aren't friends anymore.

 

Its my problem if I end up financially destitute because my husband loses his job. If I knew that wouldn't happen for sure, I'd be looking at this differently.

 

To completely avoid the friend, I'd also have to quit about every hobby/club that I'm involved in. Our mutual friends would wonder, and I'd have to be the bad guy ditching a friend or tell everyone the reason why I don't want to associate with her anymore and have my "dirty laundry" aired everywhere. I just wish she disliked me and didn't want to be around me. That would make this easier. If feels unfair that she's not backing off. She's agreed to give me space, but that breaks down to contacting me 1-2 times a day instead of 20-30 messages.

 

Its embarrassing. I don't want to tell people this happened, whether those feelings of embarrassment are rational or not. I want to end the friendship in a way that doesn't hurt me more.

Edited February 26, 2014 by A little bit Chewy

[Artie Lang]

I agree. I just don't know how to do this.

 

by being honest. if you are still in communication with her, inform her that your relationship has been irreparably harmed and that you need space and time to assess the situation.

 

when in the company of mutual friends, you will be civil toward her and her family, but the "niceties" end there.

 

you have to set clear boundaries here- be firm.

 

 

i mean seriously, do you want to be constantly reminded of their betrayal everytime you interact with them? doesn't sound like a comfortable situation to me.

[A little bit Chewy]

That's what I'd like to do.

 

It makes me even more angry of course, that I had to lose a friend AND my trust in my husband. Its like so much has been taken from me and I can't do anything.

[BHsigh]

Its my problem if I end up financially destitute because my husband loses his job. If I knew that wouldn't happen for sure, I'd be looking at this differently.

 

To completely avoid the friend, I'd also have to quit about every hobby/club that I'm involved in. Our mutual friends would wonder, and I'd have to be the bad guy ditching a friend or tell everyone the reason why I don't want to associate with her anymore and have my "dirty laundry" aired everywhere. I just wish she disliked me and didn't want to be around me. That would make this easier. If feels unfair that she's not backing off. She's agreed to give me space, but that breaks down to contacting me 1-2 times a day instead of 20-30 messages.

 

Its embarrassing. I don't want to tell people this happened, whether those feelings of embarrassment are rational or not. I want to end the friendship in a way that doesn't hurt me more.

 

If she can dislike you and not want to be around you, then why can't you do the same thing?

 

I reiterate my earlier question, why is this your problem? I hate to assume anything, but if you're a stay at home mom, then it is your husbands job to provide for you, if that means that he needs to find a new job, then so be it. He's the one that caused this problem, he should work towards fixing it.

[thinkingofhim]

You shouldnt be forced to be this womans friend because she feels bad. You can be pleasant with her in company, your kids can play together, etc, but I have no idea why you should be forced to chit chat with her via text or be friends at all. I have cordial relationships with plenty of people that are not my friends. I doubt anyone will DEMAND TO KNOW why you two are no longer close. "We've grown apart" or "We had some differences" should suffice as an explanation if one is demanded.

 

I think you need to make it clear that while you are ok being casual acquaintances with her, your close friendship has reached its end. It was your friendship that led you to be on this double couple camping trip. Do you really want to be expected to go to such outings again?? As far as Im concerned, when she had such intimacy with your husband with you and the kids right there, she ended your friendship. Done. The end. Goodbye.

[Artie Lang]

i feel ya.

 

actions have consequences, though. i hope your husband realizes the gravity of the situation because he's the one who made vows to you, not her. she might've been a "good" friend up to that point, but friends come and go.

 

you need to protect yourself now... you need to protect your marriage and your family. this means distancing yourself from toxic situations.

[Spark1111]

I still reiterate that the husband should be told calmly with all four of you present.

 

If he finds out on his own that could definitely precipitate a violent reaction since THREE of the four people know and that's a bigger betrayal than a drunken kiss.

 

Also, as you back peddle the friendship she may now feel insulted enough to spin your H as the aggressive pursuer and that could be worse when it comes to potential violence towards your H or vengeful ramifications at work.

 

Please.....really, really think on this and make a plan with your H to deal with it, him.

[lolablue17]

A normal psychological behavior goes like this:

 

First you lose you're mind (because you're drunk), then you cross some boundries, that until you get to a Peak point, the most extreme action.

 

Then you become aware of what you just did, so first thing you STOP doing that.

 

then you understand that you went way too far... you panic or at least worry about the consequences, then you're trying to make some damage control (the conversation you heard).

At this point you can't be too drunk because totally drunk people can not "get their stories straight", only sober people can do that.

 

conclusions:

 

1. The kiss you saw is the least extreme action they did because it was done way way after the peak moments, in the point of time where they already started thinking with their brain. so at the peak point maybe they ****ed, maybe they made out but much more than kissing (more like grinding, grabbing, fingering, blowing...).

 

2. Your husband remembers everything. You can not be so drunk and at the same time talking about matching stories. So he faked he's fallings and stumbles. he is also faking his "Amnesia".

 

3. also her reaction seems to me a little too much for just a kiss.

 

The good news is that probably was a one single one night fling that came out of influence of alcohol, your husband is loyal and feels remorse.

Edited February 26, 2014 by lolablue17

[road]

"Its going to be awkward tomorrow"

"What are we going to tell them? We need to get our stories straight".

"I'm not so trashy that I would go f**k in a bush".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There must not only be NC between the OW and your WH but the whole families as well.

 

 

You need to believe your ears not what the OW or your WH has said. They had sex.

 

 

You need to schedule a polygraph test. The only truth that you got was the story that the OW and your WH agreed on to get you to believe their lies that they just kissed.

 

 

The do not tell the OWH about the affair because hew is violent is the oldest lie in the book that AP's use to do damage control. You need this BH on your side to help keep NC and to get the truth out.

 

 

Expose this affair to the OWH now!

[frogss29]

This is exactly what happened to me........EXACTLY.

I tried to stay friends with the woman because we had been BEST friends and other friends told me I was over reacting.

Her husband knew. He had been having an affair too, so used this situation to leave her for several months.

My husband felt guilty.

She invaded our lives continuously.

After a year or so they started an affair that continues, spasmodically,for 14 years.

DO NOT BE FRIENDS WITH HER

Get counselling with your husband so he can understand he has crossed boundaries and what has happened is a BIG deal.