Girlfriend wants to be engaged, I'm not ready

[TheGuard13]

The whole “If you love her, you’d do anything for her, have no questions about it” thing…apologies to those who believe that, but that’s just nonsense to me. I don’t operate on that level. I don’t see love as a purely romantic notion. And marriage certainly isn’t. There are realities to the act and the idea that “I love you” simply doesn’t cover.

 

This isn’t a superficial thing on her end. She doesn’t want family, kids, etc just because, or as a status symbol, or any of that. This woman owns her own home, has her own business, and has been married before. She wants to be married again because she misses being married and having a partner, and she wants kids because she loves them, and loves the idea of being a mother.

 

I don’t think her vacation is only a game. She’s actually going to Broadway to get some specialized training from a prestigious theatre Summer program, which is something she’s always wanted to do. But she’s been conflicted about leaving me for a month. I had an inkling as to why, and this confirms it.

 

Maybe “manipulative” isn’t the right word for what she’s doing…I don’t necessarily feel manipulated so much as I feel not compromised with. I know that she has a date in mind, and I don’t have a problem with her having an internal date…but I can’t just go by her timeline, and we’ve had this discussion several times. We've also discussed children. She's had two miscarriages, and we've talked about adoption as an option as well.

 

She’s definitely aware of my financial concerns, and is actually going back to school herself so that she can support herself better, and, if it comes to it, both of us, which I don’t feel good about at all. I’ve made finding full time work a priority. I exhaust a lot of energy in my jobhunting, I’ve networked, I’ve explored unusual and new options, and the stress from it isn’t helping matters. It’s simply not as simple around here as “getting a full time job”. I’m currently working part time in my field and part time in food service.

 

To the people who are saying I don’t want to marry her…right now, they’re correct. I would like to marry her someday soon. She’s an incredible person. I think, based on everything I know about relationships, that I would need to see better communication between us first, and an ability on her end to better compromise.

 

 

That’s my main concern, honestly. The ability to compromise on issues. If we’re going to be a team, we have to be able to do this, and do it effectively. I haven’t seen that thus far. She goes to therapy weekly. I don’t have an issue with that in itself, but for a while, I was going with her, to try to help sort out our communication problems. During a particularly bad stretch, she took her anger out on me a few too many times at home, I brought it up in therapy, and was labeled as “attacking” her for what I saw as abusive behavior, and both decided to and was asked by her not to come to her sessions anymore. So things have kind of stagnated in that regard.

 

I think her insecurities and personal issues are causing me to hesitate, and I think my own insecurities and personal issues only heighten that trepidation.

[HappyLove]

The whole “If you love her, you’d do anything for her, have no questions about it” thing…apologies to those who believe that, but that’s just nonsense to me. I don’t operate on that level. I don’t see love as a purely romantic notion. And marriage certainly isn’t. There are realities to the act and the idea that “I love you” simply doesn’t cover.

 

This isn’t a superficial thing on her end. She doesn’t want family, kids, etc just because, or as a status symbol, or any of that. This woman owns her own home, has her own business, and has been married before. She wants to be married again because she misses being married and having a partner, and she wants kids because she loves them, and loves the idea of being a mother.

 

I don’t think her vacation is only a game. She’s actually going to Broadway to get some specialized training from a prestigious theatre Summer program, which is something she’s always wanted to do. But she’s been conflicted about leaving me for a month. I had an inkling as to why, and this confirms it.

 

Maybe “manipulative” isn’t the right word for what she’s doing…I don’t necessarily feel manipulated so much as I feel not compromised with. I know that she has a date in mind, and I don’t have a problem with her having an internal date…but I can’t just go by her timeline, and we’ve had this discussion several times. We've also discussed children. She's had two miscarriages, and we've talked about adoption as an option as well.

 

She’s definitely aware of my financial concerns, and is actually going back to school herself so that she can support herself better, and, if it comes to it, both of us, which I don’t feel good about at all. I’ve made finding full time work a priority. I exhaust a lot of energy in my jobhunting, I’ve networked, I’ve explored unusual and new options, and the stress from it isn’t helping matters. It’s simply not as simple around here as “getting a full time job”. I’m currently working part time in my field and part time in food service.

 

To the people who are saying I don’t want to marry her…right now, they’re correct. I would like to marry her someday soon. She’s an incredible person. I think, based on everything I know about relationships, that I would need to see better communication between us first, and an ability on her end to better compromise.

 

 

That’s my main concern, honestly. The ability to compromise on issues. If we’re going to be a team, we have to be able to do this, and do it effectively. I haven’t seen that thus far. She goes to therapy weekly. I don’t have an issue with that in itself, but for a while, I was going with her, to try to help sort out our communication problems. During a particularly bad stretch, she took her anger out on me a few too many times at home, I brought it up in therapy, and was labeled as “attacking” her for what I saw as abusive behavior, and both decided to and was asked by her not to come to her sessions anymore. So things have kind of stagnated in that regard.

 

I think her insecurities and personal issues are causing me to hesitate, and I think my own insecurities and personal issues only heighten that trepidation.

 

Sounds like you two have a lot to fix before you even think of marriage! Communication problems, therapy, then therapy didn't work. Marriage will not fix your problems if anything it makes it worse!

[Keenly]

Well you've already seen when you express your concerns about your own feelings, you are labeled as the aggressor.

 

 

Sounds like bad news to me.

[Emilia]

That’s my main concern, honestly. The ability to compromise on issues. If we’re going to be a team, we have to be able to do this, and do it effectively. I haven’t seen that thus far. She goes to therapy weekly. I don’t have an issue with that in itself, but for a while, I was going with her, to try to help sort out our communication problems. During a particularly bad stretch, she took her anger out on me a few too many times at home, I brought it up in therapy, and was labeled as “attacking” her for what I saw as abusive behavior, and both decided to and was asked by her not to come to her sessions anymore. So things have kind of stagnated in that regard.

 

I think her insecurities and personal issues are causing me to hesitate, and I think my own insecurities and personal issues only heighten that trepidation.

This is tough. Speaking as a woman who is probably similar to your girlfriend in some ways, I'm not sure it's something that can be improved beyond a certain level. She will be always who she is now at her core and probably will fall back into it under stress (as you are finding out).

[pteromom]

I would like to marry her someday soon.

 

If it was just a matter of time, I would say get engaged and set a date another year away. That way she would know you are serious and planning to marry her, and you'd have more time to find a job and get your head around the idea of marriage.

 

But the communication issue is big and needs to be resolved. If you want to keep your relationship, you need to find another therapist and work through it. Tell her you want to marry her but you have to know that there is a solution to the problem. Ask her if she will agree to 3 months of counseling, then you will talk about where each of you are in regard to marriage then. Three months of uncertainty isn't much for her to commit to, and it will give you a chance to see if your issues can be fixed. You can look for a therapist who does pre-marital counseling. You can also find books on the subject to read together. See what happens.

 

That’s my main concern, honestly. The ability to compromise on issues. If we’re going to be a team, we have to be able to do this, and do it effectively.

 

True on most things, but her clock is ticking. I can see how she wouldn't want to waste more time with you if you don't want to marry and have kids soon.

[central]

I think you're being very wise and rational. I think your list of issues is thoughtful and mature. I also think a year is too soon to get engaged - IMO, two years is much more appropriate, as it takes that long to really know someone and work out issues like the ones you've listed.

 

Do not let yourself be pressured into doing something that could well be a mistake. If she walks, she walks - there are other great women. You have great potential, and have the time to realize it - and should, before marrying.

 

Besides, if you tell her your timeframe and criteria to get engaged and that you see this happening, yet she's not willing to wait, she'll have to start over and probably take longer than that to find someone else. YOU have leverage, and the only thing that could prevent you from marrying her would be the discovery of some significant flaw or red flag that would make it unwise to do so.

Edited February 25, 2014 by central

[kaylan]

That's true, but my opinions are based a lot on their ages. By the time you're in your 30s you should have had relationships that are short term, long term, lust, love.... and you gather the experience to know the difference between them all. Something which you just don't have in your 20s. If they were 25, I'd say its too soon. But in your 30s and 40s, you tend to know sooner. Hence his hesitation. He does know. But so does she.

I dont agree. Some people dont have very long relationships (3 years plus) in their 20s.

 

And I dont think people know sooner if they wanna marry in their 30s and 40s. Actually people just get desperate sooner and settle for Mr and Mrs GoodEnough in the 30s and 40s a lot of the time. People feel time is running out and that they are getting older, and thus pull the trigger. Just look at the marriage forum here and on other sites.

 

I say OP should bail and not feel forced to marry. I personally wouldnt let my age dictate marriage. The relationship needs to be at the right stage for me to propose. Unlike some, Im ok with adoption or surrogacy in the event I dont find the right woman to marry during my younger years, if I want children that badly.

 

So OP, just let that woman go find Mr GoodEnough, so 7 years from now she can start a thread here...telling us about how she rushed marriage, was never madly in love, isnt happy, but stays in the marriage for her kids. That sounds like a wonderful future. Hey maybe she does find Mr Right....but I see a lot more ladies in a rush settling than just happening to find Mr Right during that rush.

 

And before anyone question "how does it look like shes rushing?". OP gave all the reasons. The relationship is not mature, there are fights, communication issues, and a lack of financial security. Someone willing to still get married under those circumstances is in a rush. I dont care what the age...a relationship like that isnt ready for the next step.

Edited February 25, 2014 by kaylan

[Chocolat]

She goes to therapy weekly. I don’t have an issue with that in itself, but for a while, I was going with her, to try to help sort out our communication problems. During a particularly bad stretch, she took her anger out on me a few too many times at home, I brought it up in therapy, and was labeled as “attacking” her for what I saw as abusive behavior, and both decided to and was asked by her not to come to her sessions anymore. So things have kind of stagnated in that regard.

 

You seem very reasoned in your posts here, but the above caught my eye. Did your gf label you as "attacking" or did the therapist? Who asked you not to attend sessions?

[Phantom888]

These things can't be rushed. If either party is not ready, then it's not gonna happen right now. But the concern is, will it ever happen? From the OP's description of the situation, it is not likely. I mean, the current issues are obviously big issues and should not be ignored. But the fact that she wants it and you don't, that is more alarming.

 

I believe when two people are good for each other, they should be on the same page. You both sound like you are mature and in your 30s? If she wants it (because of bio clock obviously), and you don't, then you are not on the same page. I bet if you were with a girl you 100% want, you would not make the same excuses. Deep down inside you don't think she's the right one for you. Let's be honest to yourself. Are your obstacles really preventing an engagement? Your past history is making you a commitment-phobe.

 

In my opinion, for what it's worth, you should set her free. She wants to start a family, and you are preventing her by occupying her precious time. If you respect her, let her go. There are plenty of men looking for a good woman to marry. Don't be selfish.

[TheGuard13]

My girlfriend did. I decided that if she wasn't going to be active in improving things, I would stop going.

 

 

And her therapist felt that some boundaries needed to be re-established with regard to her therapy.

[serial muse]

Besides, if you tell her your timeframe and criteria to get engaged and that you see this happening, yet she's not willing to wait, she'll have to start over and probably take longer than that to find someone else. YOU have leverage, and the only thing that could prevent you from marrying her would be the discovery of some significant flaw or red flag that would make it unwise to do so.

 

Whoa.

 

OK, sorry to use you as an example, central, but THIS is manipulative.

 

OP, you say that she won't compromise. I have no reason to doubt you...except your opening post, which indicates to me that BOTH of you are not compromising. Why is this her problem alone, I'm wondering? Do you see yourself as someone who has compromised a lot, with little from her end?

 

Do you REALLY, though? Because then I'm not sure why you'd want to marry this person at all.

 

And if you haven't told her how you feel, then it's TOTALLY unfair to talk about whether she'll compromise or not. Right?

 

Wait - about therapy, you say she asked you not to attend, but then also that you decided not to go unless she acts differently. Which?

 

I guess I'm just getting the strong feeling that there's a lot of not compromising happening here on both sides, and a lot of quasi-ultimatums happening. You seem pretty sure, though, that it's primarily her fault. That concerns me. I'm not saying it's all yours, because I don't know. But you're the one posting here, so I'm addressing you. So...what do you take responsibility for, in terms of your communication issues? She can't be all bad, if you are even considering spending your life with her. What's the "third" side of the story here?

Edited February 25, 2014 by serial muse

[FitChick]

I decided that if she wasn't going to be active in improving things, I would stop going. And her therapist felt that some boundaries needed to be re-established with regard to her therapy.

 

It sounds like it's her way or the highway. She wants a baby and marriage but not necessarily to YOU.

 

I'd suggest a total break until after she returns from the theater class. You need to clear your head without constant pressure. Date others if you both agree to. If you two do or don't miss each other, that is your answer.

 

You have plenty of time to get your own life together. You don't need a divorce and child support, which would be the likely outcome if you married her. Look at this relationship as teaching you what you do want and don't want out of a spouse. You are getting closer to your goal so maybe the next woman will be Ms Right.

 

I disagree about knowing what you want in your thirties. I was a late bloomer and didn't know until I was in my forties that I wanted to get married.

[Mascara]

I disagree about knowing what you want in your thirties. I was a late bloomer and didn't know until I was in my forties that I wanted to get married.

 

Me too, my point is that it doesn't happen often in your 20s. You need more time than a year. In your 30s a year is about right (unless you're a late bloomer), for me - at 43 - I feel like I've only just realised what I wanted (probably in the last couple of years) and I'm quite sure that if I didn't want to plan a marriage with someone after a year, it would never happen with that person.

 

Most people currently in their 20s will get to their late 30s / 40s and realise they knew relatively nothing, which is probably why so many divorces happen at that stage.

[Janesays]

The men here who are all super laid back about wanting children saying, "Oh I'd have NO problem waiting to have kids, or looking into surrogacy or even adopting if that meant stalling marriage for a few more years" are totally clueless.

 

Look, when a woman turns 35, her chances of having a child with downs is 1 in 350. By the time she's 40, it's 1 in FORTY. It's totally fine for a man who says he has no problems waiting just a 'few more years' because HE NEVER HAS TO STARE DOWN THE BARREL OF THAT GUN. Knowing that even IF you manage to conceive at this late age, you might STILL end up with a stack of medical bills and a disabled child. But if you don't TRY, then you don't get biological child EVER. A man never has to make that choice. He can just run off and shoot a load into a much younger woman any time he 'feels ready' to be a parent.

 

Surrogacy? Suggested by yet ANOTHER clueless man. That's AT LEAST 30K, plus all medical expenses and doesn't change your odds of having a disabled child even a LITTLE. The age of an egg stays the same even if it's put in a different womb, you know? Further, if your surrogate goes out and gets stupid drunk every night and you have a child with fetal alcohol syndrome, too freaking bad. Yeah. Great choice there.

 

How about ADOPTION? Yeah, because it is just so freaking CHEAP AND EASY to adopt a healthy little baby. Yeah, those are a dime a dozen, aren't they? Wait, let me ask my friend who has been on a waiting list to adopt an infant for the past 15 years even though she's got money falling out of her pockets she's so well off. Adopting a child or even a teenager is a lot easier, true, but those children usually come with their own disabilities and severe behavioral issues. Tell me how keen YOU'D be to Father a non-biological child that steals money of your wallet and sets fire to your garage?

 

Fact is, women of age DON'T have all these options that men keep touting. AND THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT. Do you think we LIKE being hemmed in by these arbitrary dates? Don't you think we'd RATHER have all the time in the world like you do? Of course. Remember what I said before: TIME is the ONLY luxury. And you guys have loads of it....while we have barely any.

 

So, yeah. We have to look a little quicker than you. And we have to learn how to make hard decisions, fast and confidently and without hesitation. And if you can't empathize with that, fine. But quit with the condescension. It's tiresome.

[Quiet Storm]

You two are in different stages of life, which makes you incompatible.

 

You have every right to not want to get engaged now. And she has every right to move on because you don't want what she wants.

 

The reality is that her chance of having a healthy baby drops every year that goes by. In vitro costs $15K+ per cycle (if it works, it often takes many cycles ). People see older celebrity moms and the rare "surprise" baby to a 40 YO mom and think this is a normal occurrence. Although many 35 YOs do get pregnant, many 35 YOs have difficulty conceiving. Combine that with the risk of Down Syndrome, and it is a risk that many women do not want to take.

 

So while you feel that it is unfair for her to pressure you, it is also unfair for you to minimize the risk of waiting. Or to expect her to sacrifice her most fertile years while you figure yourself out.

 

In light of the facts of fertility, it's easy to see why she feels that this is time sensitive issue. By waiting even just one year, she significantly reduces her chances of a having healthy baby. You said she is early 30s now. If she is 32, waiting a year to get engaged would put her at 33. By the time you plan the wedding and actually marry, she'll be 34. You think that she'll just be able to decide to get pregnant, but at 35 it could take awhile, if its still possible for her. If being a mom is a priority for her, she can't ignore reality, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable or pressured.

 

You feel that she should compromise, but even waiting just a year could have serious repurcussions. Motherhood is an important life goal for many women, and she is trying to determine if your goals in life are in line with hers. That is a smart & mature thing for her to do.

 

If you KNOW she's the one and want to get married & have a family, and you are just concerned about finances & logistics...then I think you should get engaged. Get a full time job or a second part time job. Save money & make a plan. She is not being unreasonable. She is not pressuring you to trap you or control you. She is just reacting to the unfortunate reality of her age and how it affects her fertility.

 

If you are confused and unsure, and don't see yourself being a husband or father, then let her go. It is not fair to string her along and blame unfortunate circumstances. She doesn't have enough time to patiently be your companion while you figure out what you want out of life. If you love her, set her free. She will need time to heal from her relationship with you, and time to build another relationship with another man.

 

Do you have her best interests at heart? Think about it from her perspective. Is it in her best interests to wait for you? She is in a precarious position. If she waits until you are "ready", will she still be able to conceive? Will she be putting your baby at risk for problems? If she ends the relationship with you, will she be able to find a compatible partner in time? She is so stressed about this because her life is at a crossroads and she doesn't know which path to take. She will begin to resent you if you are procrastinating and taking your good old time to "get ready". There will be a constant debate in her mind "Should I stay or should I go?" She will imagine scenarios ... what if she waits years for you, you finally marry her and she can't conceive or you have a child with Down's? She is thinking "If he already loves me and wants to spend his life with me, why wait? Why put it off when my chances for a healthy baby are much better NOW, not then." And she's right, IMO. If you love this woman and want to spend your life with her, why wait and add this unnecessary risk? I know I'm an exception, but my husband and I had our oldest son at 20, managed to work & go to school, buy a house and have two more kids. We are not rich, but are comfortable and have healthy & happy kids. Do a risk/benefit analysis... what will matter to you more in the long run? A healthy baby and a happy wife? Or financial success?

 

It's true that a year is not that long. It's understandable if you are not ready. You should not make rash decisions because you are scared of losing her. If you are not compatible and want different things, that is a legitimate reason to go your separate ways.

 

Another option would be to pay $10K to harvest her eggs and freeze them for later use.

[Negative Nancy]

You two are in different stages of life, which makes you incompatible.

 

You have every right to not want to get engaged now. And she has every right to move on because you don't want what she wants.

 

The reality is that her chance of having a healthy baby drops every year that goes by. In vitro costs $15K+ per cycle (if it works, it often takes many cycles ). People see older celebrity moms and the rare "surprise" baby to a 40 YO mom and think this is a normal occurrence. Although many 35 YOs do get pregnant, many 35 YOs have difficulty conceiving. Combine that with the risk of Down Syndrome, and it is a risk that many women do not want to take.

 

So while you feel that it is unfair for her to pressure you, it is also unfair for you to minimize the risk of waiting. Or to expect her to sacrifice her most fertile years while you figure yourself out.

 

In light of the facts of fertility, it's easy to see why she feels that this is time sensitive issue. By waiting even just one year, she significantly reduces her chances of a having healthy baby. You said she is early 30s now. If she is 32, waiting a year to get engaged would put her at 33. By the time you plan the wedding and actually marry, she'll be 34. You think that she'll just be able to decide to get pregnant, but at 35 it could take awhile, if its still possible for her. If being a mom is a priority for her, she can't ignore reality, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable or pressured.

 

You feel that she should compromise, but even waiting just a year could have serious repurcussions. Motherhood is an important life goal for many women, and she is trying to determine if your goals in life are in line with hers. That is a smart & mature thing for her to do.

 

If you KNOW she's the one and want to get married & have a family, and you are just concerned about finances & logistics...then I think you should get engaged. Get a full time job or a second part time job. Save money & make a plan. She is not being unreasonable. She is not pressuring you to trap you or control you. She is just reacting to the unfortunate reality of her age and how it affects her fertility.

 

If you are confused and unsure, and don't see yourself being a husband or father, then let her go. It is not fair to string her along and blame unfortunate circumstances. She doesn't have enough time to patiently be your companion while you figure out what you want out of life. If you love her, set her free. She will need time to heal from her relationship with you, and time to build another relationship with another man.

 

Do you have her best interests at heart? Think about it from her perspective. Is it in her best interests to wait for you? She is in a precarious position. If she waits until you are "ready", will she still be able to conceive? Will she be putting your baby at risk for problems? If she ends the relationship with you, will she be able to find a compatible partner in time? She is so stressed about this because her life is at a crossroads and she doesn't know which path to take. She will begin to resent you if you are procrastinating and taking your good old time to "get ready". There will be a constant debate in her mind "Should I stay or should I go?" She will imagine scenarios ... what if she waits years for you, you finally marry her and she can't conceive or you have a child with Down's? She is thinking "If he already loves me and wants to spend his life with me, why wait? Why put it off when my chances for a healthy baby are much better NOW, not then." And she's right, IMO. If you love this woman and want to spend your life with her, why wait and add this unnecessary risk? I know I'm an exception, but my husband and I had our oldest son at 20, managed to work & go to school, buy a house and have two more kids. We are not rich, but are comfortable and have healthy & happy kids. Do a risk/benefit analysis... what will matter to you more in the long run? A healthy baby and a happy wife? Or financial success?

 

It's true that a year is not that long. It's understandable if you are not ready. You should not make rash decisions because you are scared of losing her. If you are not compatible and want different things, that is a legitimate reason to go your separate ways.

 

Another option would be to pay $10K to harvest her eggs and freeze them for later use.

 

 

The men here who are all super laid back about wanting children saying, "Oh I'd have NO problem waiting to have kids, or looking into surrogacy or even adopting if that meant stalling marriage for a few more years" are totally clueless.

 

Look, when a woman turns 35, her chances of having a child with downs is 1 in 350. By the time she's 40, it's 1 in FORTY. It's totally fine for a man who says he has no problems waiting just a 'few more years' because HE NEVER HAS TO STARE DOWN THE BARREL OF THAT GUN. Knowing that even IF you manage to conceive at this late age, you might STILL end up with a stack of medical bills and a disabled child. But if you don't TRY, then you don't get biological child EVER. A man never has to make that choice. He can just run off and shoot a load into a much younger woman any time he 'feels ready' to be a parent.

 

Surrogacy? Suggested by yet ANOTHER clueless man. That's AT LEAST 30K, plus all medical expenses and doesn't change your odds of having a disabled child even a LITTLE. The age of an egg stays the same even if it's put in a different womb, you know? Further, if your surrogate goes out and gets stupid drunk every night and you have a child with fetal alcohol syndrome, too freaking bad. Yeah. Great choice there.

 

How about ADOPTION? Yeah, because it is just so freaking CHEAP AND EASY to adopt a healthy little baby. Yeah, those are a dime a dozen, aren't they? Wait, let me ask my friend who has been on a waiting list to adopt an infant for the past 15 years even though she's got money falling out of her pockets she's so well off. Adopting a child or even a teenager is a lot easier, true, but those children usually come with their own disabilities and severe behavioral issues. Tell me how keen YOU'D be to Father a non-biological child that steals money of your wallet and sets fire to your garage?

 

Fact is, women of age DON'T have all these options that men keep touting. AND THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT. Do you think we LIKE being hemmed in by these arbitrary dates? Don't you think we'd RATHER have all the time in the world like you do? Of course. Remember what I said before: TIME is the ONLY luxury. And you guys have loads of it....while we have barely any.

 

So, yeah. We have to look a little quicker than you. And we have to learn how to make hard decisions, fast and confidently and without hesitation. And if you can't empathize with that, fine. But quit with the condescension. It's tiresome.

 

 

Bull to the fing crap. These people are in their THIRTIES. Not their 20's. If she wants children of her own someday, she doesn't HAVE 5 years to take her time and 'figure it out.' Did you know that at 35, the chances of having a child with downs syndrome are now 1 in 350? That's a HUGE risk for a woman to take if she's say, 32. She doesn't HAVE another year to stick around only for it not to pan out. If it's not going to pan out, it's gotta not pan out NOW. That way she has a couple of years to look for someone else.

 

That's not being manipulative. That's being REALISTIC about her options.

 

I saw NOTHING in the OP that would lead me to believe this woman only wants marriage and family for superficial reasons. OP didn't say that his girlfriend was hinting at a huge fairytale wedding, looking for a mcmansion to buy, or drooling over 5 caret diamond rings.

 

Is is so hard for some people to believe that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE her life goals include being a wife and a Mother? And that there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to be those two things?

 

Should she give up her LIFE GOALS simply because YOU don't see any value in them? Because that's what she'd be doing by sticking with this dude for another year or 5. She'd be p issing away her life and her dreams.

 

And even if she DOES want marriage and children for what YOU would label superficial reasons.....SO WHAT!??! It is HER life. Isn't she allowed to pursue what makes her happy? I'm willing to be that the cell phone in your pocket is a superficial waste TO ME, but does that mean you should throw it in the trash and not be allowed to buy another because that's where MY value system lies?

 

She's not 'threatening' to walk. She is simply informing him that she will HAVE to walk or else miss out living the life she wanted to live. The 'pressure' is all in his head.

 

As I said, if he was really worried about HER best interest, he would have opened the door and let her go already. But he hasn't. And instead he's sitting on a forum trying to come up with a ways to get her to stick around and make HIM happy....at the expense of her own.

 

THAT is manipulative.

 

 

The fact that this woman is being seen as 'manipulative' to some because she clearly, honestly, and fairly is stating her wants and needs is totally backwards.

 

Manipulative is getting your friends and family to gang up on you and lay the pressure on. Manipulative is hiding pictures of engagement rings in your briefcase. Manipulative is casually mentioning that a cute guy at work is hitting on her and if you don't put or shut up, well, then....

 

Coming to you, completely honest, and saying, "I'm ready to settle down and start a family. If you're not, that's cool, but we'll need to go our separate ways. If you need time to decide, I'll give you X months."

 

That's not the LEAST bit manipulative. That's honest. Straight forward. Fair.

 

That's NO DIFFERENT from a man approaching a woman and saying, "I need to be in a relationship where my sexual needs are being met. If you can't meet them, that's cool, we'll go our separate ways. If you feel like you can meet them, I'm willing to spend X months in therapy working on this with you."

 

There is nothing wrong with NOT wanting marriage and a family. But then again, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WANTING A MARRIAGE AND A FAMILY. The fact that so many people want to CRUCIFY people simply because they have a life goal that differs from their is downright annoying.

 

OP, at your age, I absolutely agree with idea that if you don't know after a year, you're never going to know. You've seen her through all 4 seasons, through every major holiday, throughout normal life ups and downs. If you don't want to marry her now, YOU DON'T WANT TO MARRY HER PERIOD. Secretly, you KNOW this. But you're going to sit and make a bunch of EXCUSES of why you're just 'not ready' because you don't want to risk losing her (and the regular sex) completely just yet.

 

I'm sorry, but that's horrifically selfish and, considering her age, borderline evil.

 

Forget money. Forget power. Forget status. TIME is the only true luxury that we all have in this lifetime. When we are all born, we are all allotted a very limited amount of time. Time to make our dreams come true. Time to live the life that will make us happy. Time to built our futures and enjoy them. That is the ONLY thing of value we possess......AND YOU ARE STEALING HERS.

 

Personally, if I were her, I would have walked on you the moment you gave me the first wishy washy excuse. I would not give you EVEN MORE of my preciously limited time. Instead, I'd look for a man who was ENTHUSIASTIC about marrying me and fathering my children. That man is not you. But, like Ninja said, a lot of woman don't do that. Instead, they get caught up in the initial investment they have already made and stick around longer and longer and longer waiting for something that will NEVER pan out. And their LIVES get RUINED in the process.

 

So if you TRULY care about this woman and you are a man of honor, YOU will walk away from her. You will not string her along for one more year, month, or week. You will FREE her to pursue her life's goals and happiness. And you will not waste one more second of her very preciously limited TIME.

 

If you do anything less than that, if YOU try to manipulate HER into sticking around by filling her head full of false promises and dreams, then YOU are a rat. Plain and simple. Man up and walk away if you don't want this woman. It's the right thing to do.

 

 

I bet if you were with a girl you 100% want, you would not make the same excuses. Deep down inside you don't think she's the right one for you. Let's be honest to yourself. Are your obstacles really preventing an engagement?

 

 

 

Great posts....

[Janesays]

OP, I just read your most recent posts and you have to level with us.

 

Is your problem here that you're unsure that you want to marry her at all? Because that's what I got from your first post. And my answer to that is my previous posts. Despite what many of the men here are puking up and calling 'help,' not a SINGLE person has tried to pressure you into marrying this woman. In fact, we've been pressuring you just the opposite....to walk away from her and let her go. Because if you don't want to marry her, that's OK. What is NOT OK is wasting her time.

 

HOWEVER, from your most recent posts, you make it sound like you DO want to marry her, you just feel like you can't pull the trigger until you get some logistics in your head worked out. And if THAT is the case, then that changes things.

 

If she has enough money to support both of you comfortably, then waiting until you find a job you're happy with probably looks like silly nonsense to her. I could definitely see your point here if you were both living hand to mouth and living on just one income was impossible. But this woman owns her own business and makes a decent living, right? Then the only thing you're dealing with is your EGO. You probably won't feel like a 'man' unless you come into this marriage on equal financial footing. If that's the case, FINE. Just be honest with her about it. Tell her that you want her to give you X amount of time to find another job and then STICK WITH THAT. But keep in mind, she has to the right to say 'no.' She might not think appeasing your ego is worth the risk to her future children. That's OK. At least you both are being honest and fair with each other.

 

Now. As far as your communication issues....I've got news for you....EVERY MARRIED COUPLE HAS COMMUNICATION ISSUES. Good marriages, bad marriages, and all the marriages in between have communication issues. And communication issues ARE NOT static. They wax and wane. They get better or get worse depending on life circumstances, aging, etc. Even if you walked into this marriage with excellent problem solving skills, THAT MEANS NOTHING. Two or three years later you can find yourself sitting in therapy because you guys are suddenly experiencing some disconnect. That is NORMAL. It is NOT POSSIBLE for two growing, changing, evolving people to stay on the same wavelength, 100% of the time, FOREVER.

 

The issue married people have is NOT lack of communication. The issue they have is not having the DEDICATION to work through all the normal communication issues that will INEVITABLY appear. If you feel your girlfriend lacks this dedication, then I AGREE with you. She's not marriage material. But if you're BOTH dedicated to working through your issues throughout your lives and putting your marriage and partner first even during tough times, then you are way ahead of most couples!

 

If I were you, I'd sit down with your partner and say, "Listen, I do want to marry you, but I want to make sure our marriage is a primarily happy one. I want to make sure we are both equally dedicated and proactive about solving any and all problems that might crop up between us. To prove this to you, I am willing to spend once a week during the entire course of our engagement in couples counseling with a counselor we both pick together." (Let her continue to see her current therapist alone....you two pick a new counselor for this.)

 

If she refuses to do this with you, then yes, I'd hesitate before marrying her too. SHE needs to display as much dedication towards solving your communication issues that YOU display. She doesn't get to ask for the world if she's not willing to give the world back to you. Dedication towards each other's happiness is BOTH of your responsibilities.

[kaylan]

The men here who are all super laid back about wanting children saying, "Oh I'd have NO problem waiting to have kids, or looking into surrogacy or even adopting if that meant stalling marriage for a few more years" are totally clueless.

 

Look, when a woman turns 35, her chances of having a child with downs is 1 in 350. By the time she's 40, it's 1 in FORTY. It's totally fine for a man who says he has no problems waiting just a 'few more years' because HE NEVER HAS TO STARE DOWN THE BARREL OF THAT GUN. Knowing that even IF you manage to conceive at this late age, you might STILL end up with a stack of medical bills and a disabled child. But if you don't TRY, then you don't get biological child EVER. A man never has to make that choice. He can just run off and shoot a load into a much younger woman any time he 'feels ready' to be a parent.

 

Surrogacy? Suggested by yet ANOTHER clueless man. That's AT LEAST 30K, plus all medical expenses and doesn't change your odds of having a disabled child even a LITTLE. The age of an egg stays the same even if it's put in a different womb, you know? Further, if your surrogate goes out and gets stupid drunk every night and you have a child with fetal alcohol syndrome, too freaking bad. Yeah. Great choice there.

 

How about ADOPTION? Yeah, because it is just so freaking CHEAP AND EASY to adopt a healthy little baby. Yeah, those are a dime a dozen, aren't they? Wait, let me ask my friend who has been on a waiting list to adopt an infant for the past 15 years even though she's got money falling out of her pockets she's so well off. Adopting a child or even a teenager is a lot easier, true, but those children usually come with their own disabilities and severe behavioral issues. Tell me how keen YOU'D be to Father a non-biological child that steals money of your wallet and sets fire to your garage?

 

Fact is, women of age DON'T have all these options that men keep touting. AND THAT IS NOT OUR FAULT. Do you think we LIKE being hemmed in by these arbitrary dates? Don't you think we'd RATHER have all the time in the world like you do? Of course. Remember what I said before: TIME is the ONLY luxury. And you guys have loads of it....while we have barely any.

 

So, yeah. We have to look a little quicker than you. And we have to learn how to make hard decisions, fast and confidently and without hesitation. And if you can't empathize with that, fine. But quit with the condescension. It's tiresome.

Clueless? Hardly. I just don't need to rush marriage or potentially marry the wrong woman because I badly wanted kids. Don't assume I haven't done my homework on adoption and surrogacy.

 

You are being clueless actually. Many men worry about being old fathers, and I'm not gonna wait forever for the right woman or marry the wrong woman just cause I want kids. I'll go other routes and be happy with it.

Edited February 25, 2014 by kaylan

[Janesays]

Clueless? Hardly. I just don't need to rush marriage or potentially marry the wrong woman because I badly wanted kids. Don't assume I haven't done my homework on adoption and surrogacy.

 

You are being clueless actually. Many men worry about being old fathers, and I'm not gonna wait forever for the right woman or marry the wrong woman just cause I want kids. I'll go other routes and be happy with it.

 

Well, that's you.

 

Just because you'd be fine never having biological children of your own doesn't mean some people won't be DEVASTATED by never having biological children of their own.

 

Personally, I feel that if I lost my shot at having a family, my life would have been wasted. Growing up abused and without a family, it was my MOST IMPORTANT life goal. I want a family more than I want anything in the world. Lucky for me, I met someone who wants a family just as much as I do. And I don't use the word 'luck' sarcastically. I am fully aware that a significant portion of American society doesn't value family and children like I do anymore. Finding my husband was like finding a needle in a haystack. I won the lottery with this man.

 

But my point is, your life choices aren't the 'correct' ones. We are all free to pursue our own bliss. If this woman wants a family of her own, she should be allowed to pursue that without condescension and judgement from you.

[Keenly]

Well, that's you.

 

Just because you'd be fine never having biological children of your own doesn't mean some people won't be DEVASTATED by never having biological children of their own.

 

Personally, I feel that if I lost my shot at having a family, my life would have been wasted. Growing up abused and without a family, it was my MOST IMPORTANT life goal. I want a family more than I want anything in the world. Lucky for me, I met someone who wants a family just as much as I do. And I don't use the word 'luck' sarcastically. I am fully aware that a significant portion of American society doesn't value family and children like I do anymore. Finding my husband was like finding a needle in a haystack. I won the lottery with this man.

 

But my point is, your life choices aren't the 'correct' ones. We are all free to pursue our own bliss. If this woman wants a family of her own, she should be allowed to pursue that without condescension and judgement from you.

 

 

Soooooooooo aren't you being condescending and judgmental towards him?

 

 

 

Also, there will never be such a thing as being free from judgment.

[Janesays]

Soooooooooo aren't you being condescending and judgmental towards him?

 

 

 

Also, there will never be such a thing as being free from judgment.

 

 

I think a lot of things about Kaylan's lifestyle and future goals that he has shared with us.....are not for me.

 

But I bet you can't even tell me what, exactly, I'm referring too, can you? Do you want to know why? Because he is entitled to pursue his own happiness without me coming along and peeing all over his dreams. Which is why I have not done it.

 

Pointing out that he IS doing it is just stating the facts and asking that he back up and realize that not everyone in the world is just like him and values the same things. AND THAT IS TOTALLY OK.

 

After all, the world would be a super boring place if we were all exactly the same.

[serial muse]

and I'm not gonna wait forever for the right woman

 

But, kaylan - seems to me that the OP's girlfriend is trying to tell him exactly this: she's not gonna wait forever. Why is it so much worse when she says it?

 

I really don't understand why people are calling what she said manipulative. She is telling him what she wants. He doesn't have to go with it, he doesn't have to like it, and he doesn't have to marry her. But it's her right to say it, and there's not a thing wrong with her wanting to make a decision about her future. Just as it's his.

 

As I said, there doesn't actually HAVE to be a bad guy. That's just peoples' fear talking. Talk about irrational...

 

And compromise involves BOTH people making concessions. Otherwise, it's hardly "compromise".

Edited February 25, 2014 by serial muse

[kaylan]

I said bail if hes not ready and not to rush into a likely mistake.

[kaylan]

Soooooooooo aren't you being condescending and judgmental towards him?

 

 

 

Also, there will never be such a thing as being free from judgment.

 

Not to mention her being a hypocrite and showing condescension and judgment to the men in this thread with differing opinions

[serial muse]

I said bail if hes not ready and not to rush into a likely mistake.

 

Well, I agree with that. Honestly, regardless of where the various posters in this thread stand, we all seem to be advising this. The only difference of opinion seems to be whether we think the GF was at fault for what she said.

 

So, OP, that tells you something. What does your gut tell you to do?