Question for young 'other women'

[krazikat]

We can disagree - and we clearly will.

 

But no way do I ever pull a 20-something aside and tell her how to conduct HER sex life.

 

In no way do I unilaterally volunteer advice on fiances, job, school or whom to lay down with (I don't even WANT to know). If approached, of course, I will proffer whatever advice I have. If not...I don't sit them down at the table and lecture 20-somethings on who, when, where, to have sexual relations with.

 

My god that's just creepy.

Moreover its just a complete absence of parental boundaries.

 

Its' their life...if I did well, and whatever proclivities they naturally possess, will guide them in life towards "good" choices/paths.

 

We can agree to disagree but I think you may be misunderstanding. No one is saying they are interested in telling their adult children when, where, and how to have sex. However, being there to guide and help your children boater their age is important! I guess I just don't understand why a parent would not offer advice to their adult children?

 

We could just have very different parenting style, or perhaps you are not understanding correctl perhaps you are not understanding correctly what I am saying? Because I am totally lost with your response as it has absolutely nothing to do with what my comment was...nothing was said about lecturing 20-somethings about their sex life, let alone where, when, and with whom? Can you please quote for me as I cannot find any post, nor did I make one, that says anything about lecturing anyone or discussing the specifics of sex locations? I would rather not even think of my kid having sex. She has tried to talk to me about detailed stuff and I just can't do it.

 

As I said before, and reiterate again, a parents job doesnt end at 18 and as a parent I will always be there to help guide my kids when they need it. Providing information on how mm or other predetary man may approach them is not asking for specific sexual information? Does that help explain my thought process?

[the_entertainer1]

I have a question directed to young OW (maybe less than 25 years old) - either current or past OW.

 

I have two college-aged daughters. They are beautiful girls - inside and out - and great students. Neither of them is "experienced" when it comes to dating - either sexually or emotionally. They both have a lot of exposure to older men (professors, bosses, teachers' assistants, etc.). They know about their father's affair and have said that they would never be an OW. I would imagine that most of the young OW on this site never imagined that they would be an OW as well.

 

So, in an effort to raise my daughters' awareness of the dangers of an affair with a MM, I want to know the following: 1) your parents' view of adultery (i.e. did either parent have an affair or think that they were no big deal); 2) how did you meet your MM; 3) before you had sex with the MM, did you ever consider his family and the hurt that the affair may cause them; and 4) were you experienced (sexually or emotionally) with dating before you engaged in the affair?

 

I would appreciate responses from only young OW or older OW who were about college age when they began/had an affair with a MM.

 

This is a really interesting post, and I think it's a great idea. When I finished uni and entered the workforce, I was 22 and suddenly surrounded by all these older men (and women) in my profession. I was (and still am) trying to work out who I am, and my interactions with them has helped me to gain an insight into human relationships and interactions. I never really came across any of them who would overtly try to crack on to me, but there was one guy (older and married) who seemed to enjoy a little friendly flirting. Of course, I'd freak out over the smallest thing. I didn't want to cross any lines with him. That's where my story begins ... my involvement with a MM was not actually with him, but with a guy I met online, who would offer me advice about this guy. We never actually met; it was a cyber affair (though we did email, IM, video chat, etc.)

 

To answer your questions:

 

1) your parents' view of adultery (i.e. did either parent have an affair or think that they were no big deal);

 

My parents are in their early 50s and have been married for over 25 years. Neither of them has had an affair. My father is a divorce lawyer, actually, so I think he knows what to avoid in order to make a marriage work! My brothers and I have been raised to believe that adultery is wrong ... further supported by our Catholic upbringing!

 

 

2) how did you meet your MM;

 

We met online. We just started talking, at first. He would give me advice about dating and potential relationships I'd have with guys who were closer to my own age. He was 46, married, and made no secret of the fact that he'd had affairs (albeit, more physical ones) before.

 

3) before you had sex with the MM, did you ever consider his family and the hurt that the affair may cause them?

 

Well, we didn't physically have sex ... it was cybersex. At first, I think I was a bit naive. It's embarrassing to write this down, but initially, he would create fantasies for me involving a guy I'd told him about, who was in my life but unavailable. I didn't really feel that guilty at the time, because it wasn't "with" the MM, if that makes sense. But, inevitably, the cybersex began to occur without the "fantasy guy" - it was just him and me. And yes, I felt terribly guilty. We spent hours online, late into the evening or early morning (given the time difference between us.) He said that I should't worry, or that I should try not to think about it, but I was concerned that I was taking way time that he would be with his family. After a while, though, I stopped feeling as guilty. I told myself that he pursued me, and that it was making me happy - and I wondered to myself - why shouldn't I be happy?

 

4) were you experienced (sexually or emotionally) with dating before you engaged in the affair?

 

In a word, no. At 22, I'd never even kissed a guy. This cyber-affair actually led me to try meeting guys my own age. The MM even wanted me to. I'm a busy person, though, so I tried online dating. Over the last year I met 4 guys (was sort-of seeing one for around 5 months) who were nice enough but for whatever reason, we just didn't click. So now, at the age of 24 (nearly 25), I've kissed 4 guys but not gone any further. Before I became involved with the MM, I had this idea that I'd wait until marriage before having sex. I still haven't had sex, but my views on that have changed a bit. I still want to wait until I'm in a loving and committed relationship with someone before doing the deed.

 

Before I became involved with this guy, I'd never really been in love ... only thought that I had. He still thinks that I was never really in love with him, only that I thought I was. I certainly feel more strongly about him than I've ever felt about anyone else before. We ended things a couple of months ago, but it's been a bit messy. There were times that I ended up feeling used and manipulated, and other times when I felt so confident and good about myself. It was the first time I really let my walls down and opened up to someone completely, and because of the way it ended, it's made me a little bit reluctant to want to do that again in a hurry. But I'm trying to move forward. I guess one of the good things about it, is that it stopped me pursuing the original guy I'd been asking the online guy about! It still doesn't excuse or justify what happened though, I know.

 

So, to go back to your original post - no, I never thought I'd be an "other woman". It's hard to say whether I regret it or not. The 'end' is still fairly fresh, so I view it differently at different times. Yes, I regret 'distracting' this man from his family. Yes, I regret compromising some of my values. I'm thankful that we never actually had sex. The relationship taught me a lot though, and throughout its course, I did mature and develop - probably more so if I hadn't've gone through it.

[yellowmaverick]

This is a really interesting post, and I think it's a great idea. When I finished uni and entered the workforce, I was 22 and suddenly surrounded by all these older men (and women) in my profession. I was (and still am) trying to work out who I am, and my interactions with them has helped me to gain an insight into human relationships and interactions. I never really came across any of them who would overtly try to crack on to me, but there was one guy (older and married) who seemed to enjoy a little friendly flirting. Of course, I'd freak out over the smallest thing. I didn't want to cross any lines with him. That's where my story begins ... my involvement with a MM was not actually with him, but with a guy I met online, who would offer me advice about this guy. We never actually met; it was a cyber affair (though we did email, IM, video chat, etc.)

 

To answer your questions:

 

1) your parents' view of adultery (i.e. did either parent have an affair or think that they were no big deal);

 

My parents are in their early 50s and have been married for over 25 years. Neither of them has had an affair. My father is a divorce lawyer, actually, so I think he knows what to avoid in order to make a marriage work! My brothers and I have been raised to believe that adultery is wrong ... further supported by our Catholic upbringing!

 

 

2) how did you meet your MM;

 

We met online. We just started talking, at first. He would give me advice about dating and potential relationships I'd have with guys who were closer to my own age. He was 46, married, and made no secret of the fact that he'd had affairs (albeit, more physical ones) before.

 

3) before you had sex with the MM, did you ever consider his family and the hurt that the affair may cause them?

 

Well, we didn't physically have sex ... it was cybersex. At first, I think I was a bit naive. It's embarrassing to write this down, but initially, he would create fantasies for me involving a guy I'd told him about, who was in my life but unavailable. I didn't really feel that guilty at the time, because it wasn't "with" the MM, if that makes sense. But, inevitably, the cybersex began to occur without the "fantasy guy" - it was just him and me. And yes, I felt terribly guilty. We spent hours online, late into the evening or early morning (given the time difference between us.) He said that I should't worry, or that I should try not to think about it, but I was concerned that I was taking way time that he would be with his family. After a while, though, I stopped feeling as guilty. I told myself that he pursued me, and that it was making me happy - and I wondered to myself - why shouldn't I be happy?

 

4) were you experienced (sexually or emotionally) with dating before you engaged in the affair?

 

In a word, no. At 22, I'd never even kissed a guy. This cyber-affair actually led me to try meeting guys my own age. The MM even wanted me to. I'm a busy person, though, so I tried online dating. Over the last year I met 4 guys (was sort-of seeing one for around 5 months) who were nice enough but for whatever reason, we just didn't click. So now, at the age of 24 (nearly 25), I've kissed 4 guys but not gone any further. Before I became involved with the MM, I had this idea that I'd wait until marriage before having sex. I still haven't had sex, but my views on that have changed a bit. I still want to wait until I'm in a loving and committed relationship with someone before doing the deed.

 

Before I became involved with this guy, I'd never really been in love ... only thought that I had. He still thinks that I was never really in love with him, only that I thought I was. I certainly feel more strongly about him than I've ever felt about anyone else before. We ended things a couple of months ago, but it's been a bit messy. There were times that I ended up feeling used and manipulated, and other times when I felt so confident and good about myself. It was the first time I really let my walls down and opened up to someone completely, and because of the way it ended, it's made me a little bit reluctant to want to do that again in a hurry. But I'm trying to move forward. I guess one of the good things about it, is that it stopped me pursuing the original guy I'd been asking the online guy about! It still doesn't excuse or justify what happened though, I know.

 

So, to go back to your original post - no, I never thought I'd be an "other woman". It's hard to say whether I regret it or not. The 'end' is still fairly fresh, so I view it differently at different times. Yes, I regret 'distracting' this man from his family. Yes, I regret compromising some of my values. I'm thankful that we never actually had sex. The relationship taught me a lot though, and throughout its course, I did mature and develop - probably more so if I hadn't've gone through it.

 

Thanks for responding, entertainer. I can see how you would have gotten sucked into the whole cyber sex thing.

 

I think that your idea to wait for sex until you are in a committed, loving relationship is a very healthy idea. Sex is so much more amazing when you have a truly committed connection and open relationship. The wait will be worth it.

[gettingstronger]

I disagree that its creepy for a parent to talk about this with their adult children-its not about their "sex life"-its about life in general- how you view yourself-how you conduct yourself-how you build relationships and value yourself-I will always talk to my kids about this-always-not having an affair is not just about not having sex with a married person-its about values, self worth and respect-there is nothing creepy about talking to adult children about that-

[yellowmaverick]

YM, I had a similar situation with my mother also. We never talked about sex and men. I was never given any information and was left to figure out a lot on my own. As I think back, I look at experiences that happened; some small, small big, and wonder if I had been properly steered in the right direction and given advice on certain things if those same experiences would have ever happened or played out differently.

I wish I had that guidance.

 

 

If I have my own daughters one day, I would be doing exactly what you are doing! Be involved, have those talks, give advice, and warn about the evils of the world. The only thing to gain out of not being able to make good choices are lots and lots of consequences. So if you have the ability to save your daughters from some heartache, do it!

Even if it means you getting a "rolling eyes" response at times, they still hear you!

 

Thanks for your input. Most of my interaction with my children is just talking - we talk about everything. As a parent, it is difficult to find the right balance between too much help and not enough. My children are pretty independent, but they still like to know that I am always available if they need me.

[Lady2163]

Yellow...I'm glad you were able to show your daughters this post. I never thought of that, since I post a whole bunch on here I don't want people from my everyday face-to-face life to see.

 

Just make sure your available when they are making financial decisions for the first time. If you don't want to appear overly nosy...email them links to stories that jump out at you. The Internet can be a great place for young people to "school" themselves on how to buy a car, how to avoid home buying mishaps.

 

 

 

 

The first time I ever used the Internet to really benefit myself in finances was in the Fall/Winter 2000. I was trying to buy a car (think it was a used Mercury Cougar). I used some place where I found the same year of car, with less miles and $2000 less for the asking price. I printed it out and asked the dealer if he could "meet it or beat it". The look on his face is something I remember, because for him, he was realizing his whole world was going to change.

[goodyblue]

You know, our job as parents is not to keep our kids under our wing their whole lives, but to raise them to think independently and be ready to enter the world.

 

This does not, however mean that we stop parenting. My oldest son is married, he is in school full time, and his wife is in premed. They are responsible, well rounded people. But they both (I've known his wife since she was 14) are still my children and we talk about things, and I give them guidance.

 

Just because they turn 18 doesn't mean that they will magically not need guidance or need to talk, vent, etc. from time to time.

 

I do let them live their own lives, but I am here if they need anything.

 

I think it's good to talk about this with your kids, but I'd just make it very casual. I wouldn't have a sit-down or anything.

 

I'm sure they will be okay.

[Lady2163]

My apologies, last paragraph of previous post was meant for elsewhere.

[yellowmaverick]

Yellow...I'm glad you were able to show your daughters this post. I never

thought of that, since I post a whole bunch on here I don't want people from my

everyday face-to-face life to see.

 

I actually sent them a "cut and paste" and deleted usernames. I have done this a couple of times in the past when I think they might relate to a particular posting.

 

When I was about 30, my mom once said to me, "You were the child who never needed me". I didn't say this to her, but the truth was that she wasn't there when I needed her and I just became used to not needing her. To this day, I love her, but I don't feel very connected to her sometimes. I wanted a different relationship with my own children - one where they know that I am always there for them, but not so much that they come home and live in my basement after graduation.

 

I am sure that I annoy my children sometimes, but I also know that they are all pretty happy with our relationship. At the end of the day, it is only their opinions that count.

[krazikat]

My apologies, last paragraph of previous post was meant for elsewhere.

 

Sorry for my last post, too. Posting from my phone. It was Trippin'

[jwi71]

We can agree to disagree but I think you may be misunderstanding. No one is saying they are interested in telling their adult children when, where, and how to have sex. However, being there to guide and help your children boater their age is important! I guess I just don't understand why a parent would not offer advice to their adult children?

 

I guess my view on this, and the irony/hypocrisy is NOT lost on me here, is thus:

 

The worst kind of advice is unsolicited.

(Because I can't find where OP states her girls ASKED for this information)

 

If my own 20-something kids do NOT ask my advice on something...I'm not bringing it up. Its NOT my business. Its theirs. If they want my advice...they know how to reach me. I will let my children decide if THEY wish to ASK me for advice. At 20-something...they are MORE than capable of doing so - both in deciding to ask and actually asking.

 

It just seems so nosy. So much like a helicopter.

 

I limit my questions to generic and broad ones:

 

"How are you?"

"How is <work,school,life,vacation,etc>?"

"How are things going with <BF,GF,spouse,etc>?"

"How are my grand-kids?"

You get the idea.

 

It is SO alien for me to consider these Q's as normal:

 

"Do you know how to NOT have an affair with an older married man? I did this "research" and let me explain it to you..."

 

That's just SO specific...so precisely focused...I just don't get it. It's NOT normal to ME.

 

Do you see the difference in how I approach this and the laser like precision of OP's topic/question. That's the real issue here.

 

Would you EVER approach your 20-something daughter with so-called research on how young OW becomes a mistress? Out. of. the. blue.

 

Really?

 

Now somehow my replies have morphed into "parenting stops at 18".

ACTIVE parenting stops at...college-age 20-something.

 

Are you going to call and make sure junior is home by ten?

Doing their homework?

Paid their credit card on time?

Awake and attending class?

Practicing safe sex?

Dating/screwing someone that meets with parental approval?

 

None of that is MY business. They are adults and will be treated as such.

 

If they want my advice...they will ask me.

Otherwise...I stay out of their business.

Not because I don't care or I don't love them....but because I trust them to live well, honestly and with integrity. Because I am raising them that actions have consequences and they are responsible for themselves. Give them a good work ethnic...and by golly they work. And so much of those fearful I can't let go questions...fade away. I trust and believe in them.

 

I also fully expect them to royally **** up.

I'll help...if they ask.

 

 

We could just have very different parenting style, or perhaps you are not understanding correctl perhaps you are not understanding correctly what I am saying? Because I am totally lost with your response as it has absolutely nothing to do with what my comment was...nothing was said about lecturing 20-somethings about their sex life, let alone where, when, and with whom? Can you please quote for me as I cannot find any post, nor did I make one, that says anything about lecturing anyone or discussing the specifics of sex locations? I would rather not even think of my kid having sex. She has tried to talk to me about detailed stuff and I just can't do it.

Well, I was trying to stay focused on the issue...namely the whole business about presenting "research" to the daughters. So I focused on that. And yeah, clearly my parenting style and yours...not the same. Not an insult...just an observation. My style abuts my W's! I'm all old school...and yes, I made them cut their own switches.

 

I also truly believe...you gotta WORK to screw up your kids. I mean like, have a plan and execute it over years to eff em' up.

 

As I said before, and reiterate again, a parents job doesnt end at 18 and as a parent I will always be there to help guide my kids when they need it. Providing information on how mm or other predetary man may approach them is not asking for specific sexual information? Does that help explain my thought process?

I have NEVER said it ends at 18. I have, now twice, specifically said the opposite. I said ACTIVE parenting ends. The long winded diatribe of mine above is appropriate here.

 

I agree...if 20-something year old daughters ask about it...by all means bring it up. They ASKED.

 

Would you, speaking metaphorically here, unilaterally sit your 20-something daughters down at the kitchen and discuss THIS...that which they didn't ask for?

 

How does a twenty-something NOT know that partaking in an A is wrong?

That the broader themes of deceit and abuse of trust needs to be addressed as wrong at 20?

 

Its just so alien to me.

I really can't wrap my head around it....all these things should be KNOWN by 20-something. They should kow to pay their credit card...they agreed to as part of the terms. Sign up for 8am class (dummy)...get up early. Have homework...do it.

 

I really don't want you or anyone to think I am denigrating them. I'm not.

I have said that I think the OP is a good mom...I PROMISE she is. AS our 99.9999% of mom's out there. I still think the issue is less one of her daughter's...and one more of her own.

[yellowmaverick]

 

Would you, speaking metaphorically here, unilaterally sit your 20-something

daughters down at the kitchen and discuss THIS...that which they didn't ask

for?

 

 

And how do you know what they have and have not asked for? As I stated previously, you have made many assumptions that are not founded. Virtually everything that you have stated above has been fabricated by you. I certainly never said that I did ANY of those things.

 

I think the fact the several young woman applauded my relationship with my daughters and my efforts to provide guidance speaks for itself. My relationship with my daughters speaks for itself.

 

You have felt a need to repeatedly attack my relationship with my daughters based on a pretty straightforward question that I asked of a very narrow audience. Your responses and attacks have had nothing at all to do with the original question, nor did you even pretend to make them relevant to the question. Maybe you should self-reflect as to why you feel threatened by the fact that my happy and healthy relationship with my daughters bothers you so much.