Question for young 'other women'

[gettingstronger]

My friends in college and right after that had sex or affairs with MM were always the ones that could not get a guy in our age bracket so they settled-lots of times it was the girls that worked lower wage jobs to get through school and ended up with the shift manager or asst mgr at a grocery store or fast food place- they always seemed like guys that felt entitled to be more than they were at work-it was kinda yuck-tell your daughters to never settle in love-

[janedoe67]

To the OP:

 

Remember they are adults is all I can say. I think as people age they start to say things like "20yr old is just a kid" or "they are so young at 25", I often wonder the people that say these things did they forget what it feels like to be 20 or 25?

 

Women in general embrace their sexuality so much more than generations past especially younger women. Birth control, safer sex options, and general acceptance to sex has made this a obvious path for many. Sex is fun not taboo, so why should there be a double standard?

 

The problem with MM is most lie and don't say they are married. So, what happens when a guy 10-12yrs older who is respected, sharp, successful, tries to wooo and impress someone still in college? Especially someone who wants to be successful and sees that success standing right in front of them? Many are attracted to it!

 

I've seen many "coeds" date much older because power, success, and intelligence which is a aphrodisiac for many.

 

Then there are people like me that dabble in the world of "sugar" where coeds seek out older wealthy men for everything from a business in, mentorship, expensive toys, travel, and in general just a leg up with bills all with someone they actually enjoy being around.

 

Either way you will just have to see if your daughter's pass your litmus test as life goes on.

 

And pray they never encounter a man like this. Seriosuly

[HermioneG]

Just because someone chooses to have sex with someone for reasons other than marriage, longterm relationship, etc doesn't mean they don't value themselves either.

 

We are human and sex doesn't have to be this ethereal bonding experience it can be simple for the fun of it!!

 

Card carrying agontic is quasi religious in the sense there is a belief in something just not sure what.....not to be confused with athiest.

 

An agnostic is not quasi religious. You aren't adherent to anything. Agnostic means that you cannot know the validity of a religion's claims. It does not mean what you incorrectly stated. It literally means "without knowledge".

 

And atheist means you do not believe.

 

I am an agnostic atheist, who believes that you cannot know ( agnostic ) but if you could know, there's nothing supernatural ( atheism).

 

Although this has no reflection on Rumbleseat's previous claim that without religion she is still able to understand right from wrong.

 

Atheists are included among the the lowest divorce rate group of people ( a surprising result of a religious study commissioned by Barna and confirmed by others). You can be good without a deity. And objecting to other people's bad behavior is not a religious reaction. It's a morally centered one.

[Ailsa1983]

I started my affair late 20's but I have always been approached by older men since I was a young teenager, I think what attracts younger women to these men is their maturity levels compared to someone our own age. We feel that they understand us as a woman and not a girl like younger men do. We can have a proper discussion about life, sex and generally "grown up" things. I once had a boyfriend at my own age we were 23 and trying to have a mature conversation with him was like speaking with a child, he just didn't get it, he didn't understand my needs or my nature. My xMM we could easily sit down and discuss personal opinions without feeling embarrassed.

[gettingstronger]

We feel that they understand us as a woman and not a girl like younger men do.

 

 

Oh dear, you think having no boundaries and being with a MM makes you a woman-no, no and no- you have to understand that what you are doing is wrong and why you do it-thats what women do- girls are still growing and maturing and figuring this out- you need to decide what kind of woman you want to be but please do not mistake the ability to be manipulated by a MM by him saying what you want to hear is maturity-its not-

[Ailsa1983]

We feel that they understand us as a woman and not a girl like younger men do.

 

 

Oh dear, you think having no boundaries and being with a MM makes you a woman-no, no and no- you have to understand that what you are doing is wrong and why you do it-thats what women do- girls are still growing and maturing and figuring this out- you need to decide what kind of woman you want to be but please do not mistake the ability to be manipulated by a MM by him saying what you want to hear is maturity-its not-

 

You just read what you wanted to hear in that statement. I was asked a question and I answered it as truthfully as I could, it's nothing to do with boundaries at all. I was trying to state that speaking about politics, sex, everyday life was easier with a grown man not necessarily a married one was better than speaking with one my own age who lacked interest in these things and was only concerned about when the next party was or how high a score he got on a games console.

[rumbleseat]

An agnostic is not quasi religious. You aren't adherent to anything. Agnostic means that you cannot know the validity of a religion's claims. It does not mean what you incorrectly stated. It literally means "without knowledge".

 

And atheist means you do not believe.

 

I am an agnostic atheist, who believes that you cannot know ( agnostic ) but if you could know, there's nothing supernatural ( atheism).

 

Although this has no reflection on Rumbleseat's previous claim that without religion she is still able to understand right from wrong.

 

Atheists are included among the the lowest divorce rate group of people ( a surprising result of a religious study commissioned by Barna and confirmed by others). You can be good without a deity. And objecting to other people's bad behavior is not a religious reaction. It's a morally centered one.

 

 

Exactly. I truly believe that it is not for me "to know the mind of God", but I know my own mind and what is right and wrong.

 

Men using inexperienced women and then discarding them like a used kleenex is not right.The same is true for women who use men.

 

I always wonder when I hear a MM go on like that, how they would feel if it was their daughter who was led on and hurt by a MM. How would he feel? Would he simply pat her on the head and say " aw, poor sugar baby...better luck next time". These women are real people with feelings, and using them like that is nasty.

 

Btw, the only "nerve' it's touching is that of a human being who doesn't like seeing other human beings being used.

[Lady2163]

My daughters did not date much in high school, and still don't, out of choice. School work, jobs, and hanging out with buddies all come first. They have lots of guy friends, but neither has ever had one that she calls a boyfriend, longer than a couple of weeks anyway. They have both struggled over the past couple of years over the revelation of their dad's affair. I think this has made them both somewhat distrustful, but I am wondering if it has made them somewhat vulnerable as well.

 

Obviously, I'm making a snap judgment, even if it is positive...

 

It sounds like your daughters had/have a well-rounded life. That is all good. Things were different 30 years ago. What percentage of your daughters' class got married a month after high school graduation got married because they WANTED to? I bet my percentage is much higher.

 

People are delaying marriage and from what I have seen, those that are given other avenues, sports, friends, importance of studies, part-time work are delaying marriage because they have delayed dating and intimacy.

 

Are you able to actually talk to them about your concerns they are vulnerable?

 

I think there have been a lot of good examples given here.

 

One test I have used is: if it is something I was too embarrassed to talk about to my mother, my foster child or my best friend, then it was probably something I shouldn't be doing. I don't mean I had to be okay talking to all three, just one of the three.

[CarrieT]

Remember they are adults is all I can say. I think as people age they start to say things like "20yr old is just a kid" or "they are so young at 25", I often wonder the people that say these things did they forget what it feels like to be 20 or 25?

Disagree, disagree, disagree...

 

There has been extensive scientific study that one's frontal cortex is not fully attached until 26-ish. You can read about here.

 

In short, those synapses that enable someone to make thoughtful, intelligent decisions don't even exist until the late 20s so until then, people are acting on impulse = what feels good.

[yellowmaverick]

I started my affair late 20's but I have always been approached by older men since I was a young teenager, I think what attracts younger women to these men is their maturity levels compared to someone our own age. We feel that they understand us as a woman and not a girl like younger men do. We can have a proper discussion about life, sex and generally "grown up" things. I once had a boyfriend at my own age we were 23 and trying to have a mature conversation with him was like speaking with a child, he just didn't get it, he didn't understand my needs or my nature. My xMM we could easily sit down and discuss personal opinions without feeling embarrassed.

 

I appreciate you sharing your story with me, but I am sad that you equate getting involved with a MM with maturity. I also don't equate sexual proclivity with maturity. I am not saying that you are not mature (as I don't know you), but I am saying that I disagree that maturity is what attracts a MM. I believe that it is quite the opposite - MM are attracted to vulnerability.

[yellowmaverick]

I think the "issue" here is more YOURS and LESS your daughters.

 

For you, hardest for parents - myself included, its time to step back and let them go. The morals and virtues and ethos and work ethic and all else that one can learn from parents has been learned. Your role as "active" parent is over. They are adults and their lives are theirs to make.

 

I'm actually more concerned for YOU than them.

 

Are YOU ok?

 

As a mother, I am sad that you believe that my concern for my daughters is an "issue". I am not one who believes that my children have no need for my guidance once they turn 18. Sometimes, issues come up for children after the age of 18. Giving your children the freedom to make their own decisions and being available for guidance are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the college orientation that I attended for parents strongly urged parents to stay involved and to continue to provide guidance for their children. They stressed that the students who suffered the most were the students whose families did not offer support. After reading your response, I am very glad that my children feel that we are close enough that they can talk to me about anything. That's not to say that I make decisions for them - it means that I listen to them and that they know that I am always there for them.

 

My own mother sounded a lot more like you. That is why we are not particularly close. I knew that I wanted a different relationship with my own children, but to each her own.

[violet1]

Disagree, disagree, disagree...

 

There has been extensive scientific study that one's frontal cortex is not fully attached until 26-ish. You can read about here.

 

 

In short, those synapses that enable someone to make thoughtful, intelligent decisions don't even exist until the late 20s so until then, people are acting on impulse = what feels good.

I completely agree! I remember when I was 22 years old and people in their 30's and 40's would tell me, "oh you're just a baby." I would get so angry. Now I'm in my 30's and I look at young 20 somethings as kids. Looking back, most of my decisions in my early 20's were based on pure impulse. I regret most of the of those choices. I'm willing to bet that the girls Polyhedron sees will regret ever meeting him when they get older.

[sunburned]

Disagree, disagree, disagree...

 

There has been extensive scientific study that one's frontal cortex is not fully attached until 26-ish. You can read about here.

 

In short, those synapses that enable someone to make thoughtful, intelligent decisions don't even exist until the late 20s so until then, people are acting on impulse = what feels good.

Yes! Precisely why auto insurance rates go down after 25 and why some car rental companies won't rent to those under 25.

[Ailsa1983]

I appreciate you sharing your story with me, but I am sad that you equate getting involved with a MM with maturity. I also don't equate sexual proclivity with maturity. I am not saying that you are not mature (as I don't know you), but I am saying that I disagree that maturity is what attracts a MM. I believe that it is quite the opposite - MM are attracted to vulnerability.

 

Yes and women in their 20's who are exploring themselves and the world are quite vulnerable. As a previous poster already stated we are impulsive at this age and go on emotions rather than practicality.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

 

If you think "sugar" is being a piece on the side for a couple $$ dollars, well that would be prostitution/escorting not a balanced sugar relationship.

 

You can put lipstick on a pig ...and guess what? Its still a pig.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[MissTakes]

I have a question directed to young OW (maybe less than 25 years old) - either current or past OW.

 

I have two college-aged daughters. They are beautiful girls - inside and out - and great students. Neither of them is "experienced" when it comes to dating - either sexually or emotionally. They both have a lot of exposure to older men (professors, bosses, teachers' assistants, etc.). They know about their father's affair and have said that they would never be an OW. I would imagine that most of the young OW on this site never imagined that they would be an OW as well.

 

So, in an effort to raise my daughters' awareness of the dangers of an affair with a MM, I want to know the following: 1) your parents' view of adultery (i.e. did either parent have an affair or think that they were no big deal); 2) how did you meet your MM; 3) before you had sex with the MM, did you ever consider his family and the hurt that the affair may cause them; and 4) were you experienced (sexually or emotionally) with dating before you engaged in the affair?

 

I would appreciate responses from only young OW or older OW who were about college age when they began/had an affair with a MM.

 

I was 23 when I became an OW, so I'm right in your target demographic here.

 

Neither of my parents ever had an affair or was callous about adultery. I was raised Christian, though not intensely. I grew up going to Sunday school in a ELCA (Lutheran) church. I was honestly probably more religious than my parents, which contributed to me not having many sexual experiences in my teens.

 

My first sexual experience was at 17, with the first guy I ever sort of dated. I seeing a guy who 10 years older than me. He assaulted me, and it left me with some pretty significant emotional scars that I don't know that I've ever truly dealt with. In general, in relationships, I'm outgoing and fun, but have trouble forming long-term bonds or trusting people - as a friend of mine says, I have two modes: you're trying to date me, or you're trying to sleep with me (and I'm predisposed to believe that 99% of men are just trying to sleep with me). I don't think I've ever dated or slept with someone who fell into the second category - besides maybe my xMM.

 

I think he seemed different to me because he was married, though I didn't know it at first. We met at a work event, and I think we were two of the only people not drinking. He seemed like a good guy, and he didn't hit on me, which put me at ease around him. As we started to become friends, I found out he was married, which put me further at ease - surely he wouldn't be trying to sleep with me then! It made it all the more surprising when he did make a move, but it had also lulled me into a feeling of comfort and safety around him that I don't often feel.

 

I've thought about my xMM's family a lot - I know his brother fairly well, who, thank God, doesn't know about the A. I have some connections to his W, though we've never officially met. They don't have kids, for which I'm grateful. I worry about what the A could have done to his world, as well as his brother's (long story - but it could have blown up both of their lives and livelihoods) if it had gotten out. And I try to remind myself every day that I'm still young, lively, and have a long life ahead of me to find someone who loves me the way I deserve to be loved.

[jwi71]

I completely disagree with this. You never stop being an "active parent" no matter how old your kids get you will mentor and teach and discuss and guide etc. I am concerned about you that you would actually be concerned about a parent concerned for their kids headed to college and trying to prepare them. It never ends. Being a parent is for life. You can tell your kids what to do but you can always offer guidence and love.

 

We can disagree - and we clearly will.

 

But no way do I ever pull a 20-something aside and tell her how to conduct HER sex life.

 

In no way do I unilaterally volunteer advice on fiances, job, school or whom to lay down with (I don't even WANT to know). If approached, of course, I will proffer whatever advice I have. If not...I don't sit them down at the table and lecture 20-somethings on who, when, where, to have sexual relations with.

 

My god that's just creepy.

Moreover its just a complete absence of parental boundaries.

 

Its' their life...if I did well, and whatever proclivities they naturally possess, will guide them in life towards "good" choices/paths.

[jwi71]

As a mother, I am sad that you believe that my concern for my daughters is an "issue". I am not one who believes that my children have no need for my guidance once they turn 18. Sometimes, issues come up for children after the age of 18. Giving your children the freedom to make their own decisions and being available for guidance are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the college orientation that I attended for parents strongly urged parents to stay involved and to continue to provide guidance for their children. They stressed that the students who suffered the most were the students whose families did not offer support. After reading your response, I am very glad that my children feel that we are close enough that they can talk to me about anything. That's not to say that I make decisions for them - it means that I listen to them and that they know that I am always there for them.

 

My own mother sounded a lot more like you. That is why we are not particularly close. I knew that I wanted a different relationship with my own children, but to each her own.

 

Oh...maybe I misunderstood.

 

Your college age 20-something daughters approached you on how to not have sex with married men?

 

Nowhere do I EVER say stop parenting. I said, stop "active" parenting...meaning, to me, one doesn't research a very specific and personal trauma and then, in the absence of, to our knowledge, the daughters specifically asking for such advice..."force feed it to them at the kitchen table".

 

I don't think you are a bad mother...I think you are reacting to your own personal trauma and projecting it upon them. That is my issue. And if I'm way off the mark...wouldn't be the first time. Nor the last.

 

Its also why I ask if you are ok.

 

It just strikes me as suspicious that you walk down this path.

Especially, to our knowledge, its in the absence of a daughter's question. And had they...why not direct THEM to post here and not you gather the info for them and regurgitate it? Are they not capable of doing this for themselves? Their own research? Their own conclusions?

 

See my thinking on this...and the 'why'?

[Lady2163]

We can disagree - and we clearly will.

 

But no way do I ever pull a 20-something aside and tell her how to conduct HER sex life.

 

In no way do I unilaterally volunteer advice on fiances, job, school or whom to lay down with (I don't even WANT to know). If approached, of course, I will proffer whatever advice I have. If not...I don't sit them down at the table and lecture 20-somethings on who, when, where, to have sexual relations with.

 

My god that's just creepy.

Moreover its just a complete absence of parental boundaries.

 

Its' their life...if I did well, and whatever proclivities they naturally possess, will guide them in life towards "good" choices/paths.

 

 

Okay, this is totally off-topic....but never stop being just a touch nosy in your kids' lives.

 

My exhusband and I bought our house when I was in my late 20s and he was in his 30s. We didn't know jack. We were talked into a predatory mortgage. We paid a MASSIVE amount in PMI each month, when in the end I realized if we had borrowed the $2000 needed to get to 78% from my parents, we wouldn't have gotten socked the way we did. We were idiots.

 

I spent my 30s paying (literally) for the decisions of my 20s. I wish my parents had asked more questions about our mortgage and our situation.

[yellowmaverick]

Oh...maybe I misunderstood.

 

Your college age 20-something daughters approached you on how to not have sex with married men?

 

Nowhere do I EVER say stop parenting. I said, stop "active" parenting...meaning, to me, one doesn't research a very specific and personal trauma and then, in the absence of, to our knowledge, the daughters specifically asking for such advice..."force feed it to them at the kitchen table".

 

I don't think you are a bad mother...I think you are reacting to your own personal trauma and projecting it upon them. That is my issue. And if I'm way off the mark...wouldn't be the first time. Nor the last.

Y

Its also why I ask if you are ok.

 

It just strikes me as suspicious that you walk down this path.

Especially, to our knowledge, its in the absence of a daughter's question. And had they...why not direct THEM to post here and not you gather the info for them and regurgitate it? Are they not capable of doing this for themselves? Their own research? Their own conclusions?

 

See my thinking on this...and the 'why'?

 

As we say in the legal world, you have assumed many facts not in evidence. I did ask my daughters to read this thread. I have to thank you, now. They are much more appreciative that I am their mother.

Edited February 25, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[yellowmaverick]

Okay, this is totally off-topic....but never stop being just a touch nosy in your kids' lives.

 

My exhusband and I bought our house when I was in my late 20s and he was in his 30s. We didn't know jack. We were talked into a predatory mortgage. We paid a MASSIVE amount in PMI each month, when in the end I realized if we had borrowed the $2000 needed to get to 78% from my parents, we wouldn't have gotten socked the way we did. We were idiots.

 

I spent my 30s paying (literally) for the decisions of my 20s. I wish my parents had asked more questions about our mortgage and our situation.

 

At that age, I probably wouldn't have asked any questions about their finances, but I would have been available to answer any questions that they might have had.

[jwi71]

Okay, this is totally off-topic....but never stop being just a touch nosy in your kids' lives.

 

I agree. "Not active" parenting. Being available. Not pushing it.

I think asking question is certainly appropriate. But I also think there are limits...outlined to some degree in previous posts.

 

My exhusband and I bought our house when I was in my late 20s and he was in his 30s. We didn't know jack. We were talked into a predatory mortgage. We paid a MASSIVE amount in PMI each month, when in the end I realized if we had borrowed the $2000 needed to get to 78% from my parents, we wouldn't have gotten socked the way we did. We were idiots.

 

Experience is a biatch is it not?

First she give you the test THEN the lesson.

 

I spent my 30s paying (literally) for the decisions of my 20s. I wish my parents had asked more questions about our mortgage and our situation.

 

As did we all. And the mistakes of our 30's get fixed in out 40's...and I'm sure next decade will be spent fixing the screw-ups in this one. Wisdom is hard earned.

[Lady2163]

I agree. "Not active" parenting. Being available. Not pushing it.

I think asking question is certainly appropriate. But I also think there are limits...outlined to some degree in previous posts.

 

 

 

Experience is a biatch is it not?

First she give you the test THEN the lesson.

 

 

 

As did we all. And the mistakes of our 30's get fixed in out 40's...and I'm sure next decade will be spent fixing the screw-ups in this one. Wisdom is hard earned.

 

Again, off-topic, to be honest, financially speaking and career wise, the 40s rock!

 

Appearance-wise and dating value..not so much. A man in his mid 40s without children is still considering having children. A woman in her mid 40s without children is starting to realize biologically it may not be a good idea to have a first child at 42, 43, 44 etc.

 

Now, I may end up in therapy for the crap I did in my 40s, but at least I'll be able to pay for it.

[whatatangledweb]

I have a question directed to young OW (maybe less than 25 years old) - either current or past OW.

 

I have two college-aged daughters. They are beautiful girls - inside and out - and great students. Neither of them is "experienced" when it comes to dating - either sexually or emotionally. They both have a lot of exposure to older men (professors, bosses, teachers' assistants, etc.). They know about their father's affair and have said that they would never be an OW. I would imagine that most of the young OW on this site never imagined that they would be an OW as well.

 

So, in an effort to raise my daughters' awareness of the dangers of an affair with a MM, I want to know the following: 1) your parents' view of adultery (i.e. did either parent have an affair or think that they were no big deal); 2) how did you meet your MM; 3) before you had sex with the MM, did you ever consider his family and the hurt that the affair may cause them; and 4) were you experienced (sexually or emotionally) with dating before you engaged in the affair?

 

I would appreciate responses from only young OW or older OW who were about college age when they began/had an affair with a MM.

 

I actually never thought anything about this until my husband had an affair. My younger sister was very naive about men. She lost her virginity at 17 with the first guy she dated. He had a GF. My sister knew didn't care. She always dated Married Men until she met her husband at 30. She never felt guilty and she wasn't trying to get them to leave their wives. To her the dating was just fun together and their families never entered her mind.

 

The first guy she met at a bowling alley, the others at work.

 

Adultery was not discussed in our home and we had no one we knew who had done it during our chilldhood.

 

My birth mother gave custody of us to our father when she was 3. She then disappeared. This bothered my sister and still does. She dated people who could not commit to her. If they couldn't commit then she was safe from being left like our mother did. It was emotionally safe for her. She is a very pretty woman and was always asked out by single guys but she said no.

 

She is still married and very happy. They have been together for 17 years.

 

No one could have stopped my sister, no advice or knowledge would have changed her behavior. My older sister and I both knew what she was doing and back then we never thought anything about it. It was her life.

 

It's seems that how you think about things changes as you get older.

[TaylorLane]

My own mother sounded a lot more like you. That is why we are not particularly close. I knew that I wanted a different relationship with my own children, but to each her own.

 

 

 

YM, I had a similar situation with my mother also. We never talked about sex and men. I was never given any information and was left to figure out a lot on my own. As I think back, I look at experiences that happened; some small, small big, and wonder if I had been properly steered in the right direction and given advice on certain things if those same experiences would have ever happened or played out differently.

I wish I had that guidance.

 

 

If I have my own daughters one day, I would be doing exactly what you are doing! Be involved, have those talks, give advice, and warn about the evils of the world. The only thing to gain out of not being able to make good choices are lots and lots of consequences. So if you have the ability to save your daughters from some heartache, do it!

Even if it means you getting a "rolling eyes" response at times, they still hear you!