Recovery, PTSD, the rest of my life

[BetrayedH]

Yeah, that must be nice.

 

[BetrayedH]

My apologies for being flippant. It's funny because someone recently said to do whatever BH says, and I get my best stuff from Spark.

 

I do have to say, however, that BSs with truly remorseful WSs are just about as annoying as reformed smokers.

 

Color me jealous. No such rest for the weary on this end. I'll keep my victimhood, thanks.

 

Sorry MM, having some fun.

[merrmeade]

It was no longer major trickle-truths....I almost divorced him over those. it was smaller details....

 

It became cruel almost, as in, beating a dead horse, kicking a dog when it's down, demanding deep, emotional insights from a man who would recoil and grow ill from trying to remember and answer a specific question about a specific detail.....

 

It felt wrong. So I stopped. And told myself I had all the important information I needed and that any more info would not change the past; would not change my choices or my value-based judgements. I slowly came toàacceptance with that decision.

 

Well, you have a bit more compassion than I, Spark. When he gets all hang-head and can't talk, I don't feel compassion just annoyance since I have not done a cotton pickin' think to him. Then, I do see this insidious downturn in this health for days and weeks after, but I don't have thoughts like yours. I think: Damn, he's getting away again and still can't face the music. Eventually he does forget and thinks I do, too. (Well, I do feel some concern.)

 

Not yet.

 

But I have to do something. It's interfering with my work in a big way. I had to force-write my project all nightm, didn't have time for a re-read, just spellcheck. Not good. Sentence fragments, a bit of gibberish here and there from no sleep. Plus took way too long. What was I thinking? Boss wants an explanation tomorrow. Worried and still having brain lapse.

[merrmeade]

My apologies for being flippant. It's funny because someone recently said to do whatever BH says, and I get my best stuff from Spark.

 

I do have to say, however, that BSs with truly remorseful WSs are just about as annoying as reformed smokers.

 

Color me jealous. No such rest for the weary on this end. I'll keep my victimhood, thanks.

 

Sorry MM, having some fun.

 

I think your bed-burning is the most satisfying act of white hot vengeance I ever heard of. Wish I had a good cathartic memory like that.

[BetrayedH]

I think your bed-burning is the most satisfying act of white hot vengeance I ever heard of. Wish I had a good cathartic memory like that.

 

I sure wish it played out that way. Throwing her out the door when she wouldn't leave instantly made her the victim, a dynamic which continues to play itself out today with her and her family. She was physically hurt when she fell on the sidewalk. I spent 15 hours in jail; you should see my mugshot photo. It took me something like a week just to be able to take my kids bowling. My poor son looked at me as if I'd lost my mind (all he really knew was that mommy did something bad and I took it out on the couch). It took me a good 7 weeks to get established in an apartment and get shared custody. I got served with divorce papers. It took months to clear up the criminal charges via anger management courses and fines, which remain discoverable. I lost my job the same week my divorce went thru and I still can't find steady employment. If it had stopped at the couch, perhaps it would be cathartic. Any such feeling is completely washed away by the consequences of one 5-second time frame. It's still surreal that ANY of this has happened.

 

I sure recommend people keep their wits about them. Hopefully it's a cautionary tale for someone.

[experiencethedevine]

I sure wish it played out that way. Throwing her out the door when she wouldn't leave instantly made her the victim, a dynamic which continues to play itself out today with her and her family. She was physically hurt when she fell on the sidewalk. I spent 15 hours in jail; you should see my mugshot photo. It took me something like a week just to be able to take my kids bowling. My poor son looked at me as if I'd lost my mind (all he really knew was that mommy did something bad and I took it out on the couch). It took me a good 7 weeks to get established in an apartment and get shared custody. I got served with divorce papers. It took months to clear up the criminal charges via anger management courses and fines, which remain discoverable. I lost my job the same week my divorce went thru and I still can't find steady employment. If it had stopped at the couch, perhaps it would be cathartic. Any such feeling is completely washed away by the consequences of one 5-second time frame. It's still surreal that ANY of this has happened.

 

I sure recommend people keep their wits about them. Hopefully it's a cautionary tale for someone.

 

 

 

 

I sincerely hope BH that it won't be too long before your misfortune turns around and you begin to experience a freedom you might not think possible at this time.

 

 

It won't always be so horrid for a man who essentially bears honour, justice and good character. Your children have a great role model, despite your temporary (and fully justified) moment of insanity.

[merrmeade]

I sure wish it played out that way. Throwing her out the door when she wouldn't leave instantly made her the victim, a dynamic which continues to play itself out today with her and her family. She was physically hurt when she fell on the sidewalk. I spent 15 hours in jail; you should see my mugshot photo. It took me something like a week just to be able to take my kids bowling. My poor son looked at me as if I'd lost my mind (all he really knew was that mommy did something bad and I took it out on the couch). It took me a good 7 weeks to get established in an apartment and get shared custody. I got served with divorce papers. It took months to clear up the criminal charges via anger management courses and fines, which remain discoverable. I lost my job the same week my divorce went thru and I still can't find steady employment. If it had stopped at the couch, perhaps it would be cathartic. Any such feeling is completely washed away by the consequences of one 5-second time frame. It's still surreal that ANY of this has happened.

 

I sure recommend people keep their wits about them. Hopefully it's a cautionary tale for someone.

 

Good thing we cleared that up. Makes me feel that much better about the measured words of encouragement and insight you continue to bestow on people - that is, being so wise, humane and far-thinking in the face of continued stresses.

 

(I think you'd be an asset to any business' human relations department. Maybe think about career re-invention?)

[BetrayedH]

Apologies. Not sure why that was necessary. Blech.

 

Back to you, MM. Anything resonating?

[Snowflower]

To me, it was more about embracing the old adage of when you are sick and tired of FEELING sick and tired is when you will be ready to embrace change.

At some point, I had to examine my relentless pursuit of smaller details of the affair in the timeline.

 

I began to GROW sick and tired of my OWN behavior....What had worked so well in my career as a former journalist was literally clouding my judgement, affecting my health and happiness, and giving this stupid, adolescent, rebellious affair waaaaaaaay too much power over me and my future.

 

It was no longer major trickle-truths....I almost divorced him over those. it was smaller details....

 

It became cruel almost, as in, beating a dead horse, kicking a dog when it's down, demanding deep, emotional insights from a man who would recoil and grow ill from trying to remember and answer a specific question about a specific detail.....

 

It felt wrong. So I stopped. And told myself I had all the important information I needed and that any more info would not change the past; would not change my choices or my value-based judgements. I slowly came to acceptance with that decision.

 

You cannot choose acceptance, nor intellectualize it. it is something that slowly comes to you ONLY when you are ready for it.

 

And that does require some soul searching and active participation and deciding fiercely that I am done with the affair; it will NOT continue to rob me of enjoying, appreciating my life NOW.

 

And with it comes peace and I wish it for all of you, WHEN you are ready for it.

 

This entire post was really good, especially the bolded. I too got tired of the affair, thinking about it, analyzing it and my husband, spending too much time on LS, etc.

 

I realized that I lost some valuable time in those intervening years. Not a complete loss but I definitely spent more time on that dang affair than it needed.

 

But, I do know that I process things slowly.

 

Eventually though, and I'm not even sure how it happened, I got to that place of acceptance. I realized that I had gotten to "it is what it is" as an attitude about the affair. At least for me, that is how I feel about it now. It's actually a saying that my H loves to say. But really, that is how I feel now. It happened. It sucked. I dealt with it.

 

Nothing will change what happened and it hurt more than I could have ever imagined. But I got through it. Life went on.

 

So, all of you who are still hurting...acceptance will hopefully come for you as well. (gosh, that sounds smug and I don't mean for it to be) Like Spark said, you can't intellectualize it or force it to come.

 

You will just realize it one day that you have somehow assimilated the whole painful experience into your life story somehow, for you and you alone.

[Snowflower]

..........

Edited February 26, 2014 by Snowflower

[ladydesigner]

You will just realize it one day that you have somehow assimilated the whole painful experience into your life story somehow, for you and you alone.

 

 

I am 2 years out and this is exactly how it feels to me now!

[merrmeade]

I'm not so sure now that I've gotten back here and started writing and detailing the sh-t I've put up with that I'm so all-fired accepting after all. Not sure what to do about it but reading and writing here - though hard - is forcing some hard thinking. Maybe I'll circle back again and say, ok, ok, he's what he is and that's all what he is and it works better with him there. I mean, they've written songs about that, right?

Edited February 27, 2014 by merrmeade

[Spark1111]

I'm not so sure now that I've gotten back here and started writing and detailing the sh-t I've put up with that I'm so all-fired accepting after all. Not sure what to do about it but reading and writing here - though hard - is forcing some hard thinking. Maybe I'll circle back again and say, ok, ok, he's what he is and that's all what he is and it works better with him there. I mean, they've written songs about that, right?

 

No one....who has walked through the fire of betrayal, would, should, judge you if you do.

 

And the hardest part.....is ONLY YOU can make this decision.

 

The late, great Ann Landers said ultimately there are only two questions that must be answered in a relationship: Am I better off WITH HIM.....or WITHOUT HIM.

 

Same for men.

[merrmeade]

No one....who has walked through the fire of betrayal, would, should, judge you if you do.

 

And the hardest part.....is ONLY YOU can make this decision.

 

The late, great Ann Landers said ultimately there are only two questions that must be answered in a relationship: Am I better off WITH HIM.....or WITHOUT HIM.

 

Same for men.

 

Thanks, Spark, for sticking with me on this.

 

It's just that - when I think I'm ready to, you know, all we're saying: let it go, move on, etc. - I realize that's exactly the moment he's wanted since dDay 1 but for different reasons. Letting go and moving on for him is Rug Sweeping 101.

 

And it's not just bitterness or need to rub his face in it. It's who he is in everything. He's someone who - if left to himself - easily blurs the line between truth and untruth, seeking only the one that separates hassle and comfort. If untruth makes someone else leave the status quo alone, he's fine with it. Whew, no confrontation. Doesn't notice the little ethical choices of his own life unless they're pointed out. Well, progress is that NOW I can point this out tactfully and he accepts it, but this isn't creating actual, deep, character-forming change. In fact, I've seen bad signs lately though not toward cheating. I don't worry about cheating any more. I mean, telling him constantly the pain and need to know I was feeling made a lasting impression, I'm very sure. So you may think, well, then what? Well, what is - I can't go back to that relationship of lies between us either. So I have this higher standard, I think. And he's just not getting close enough. For example, here's what I wrote earlier today on another thread about telling older children (the BW was writing about the pain she sees that her BH feels seeing his children's looks and disappointment in him):

It seems to me it's the very best sign of all. All of you accept that you have to walk this gamut of pain together - a pain he absolutely must have and deserves. What if you were going through it by yourself? I mean, think about it: The A is possible not only because the fog stuns WS brains, but also because their actions aren't causing any pain at the time of the A - precisely BECAUSE no one knows. Once the truth is out, the fog lifts and they see the world of Others (not just themselves) and they HAVE to face the pain they've caused and suffer. ...

 

More than that, it must be shared both ways this pain. Those of us they've hurt NEED to see that they suffer for the pain we feel. We need to be shown - without asking for it, without being told - that they SEE what they caused. The fact that you recognize and seem to love him for this seems to me what true R and a good marriage are all about. I am convinced that this pain shared, reflected and understood by a family is what leads to healing.

 

YOU have a good marriage worth saving, I think. I envy you. I'm probably more obnoxious because I'm standing back analyzing what I didn't experience but only imagine and crave. You have a husband with character. Just imagine that there are other WS's like mine who continue the rationalizations. They actually believe that their sacrifice is living with the shame of what they did so the BS and their family won't have to suffer. Almost funny, isn't it? It's cowardice and self-indulgence cloaked in bullsh-t and so a ONS becomes an A or it happens again with a different person, maybe years later. One and then another A becomes possible for three reasons: 1) they love pleasure and hate pain; 2) their spouses were too dumb and trusting to suspect them; 3) because of 1 and 2, they didn't really pay a consequence. Their shame wasn't quite enough apparently.

So, writing that, I thought to myself - What would he understand by reading that? Why can't I say this to him so he GETS it?

 

I mean, I've always thought that he all he really wanted - ironically - was to be considered a good, noble, fair, compassionate man but at the same time there it was definitely a goodness, etc. that he wanted to be recognized. I think the most he ever got out of a relationship that really softened him and reduced his need for admiration was with my father, who by most people's reckoning was true Renaissance man with compassion and nobility. Winning his love and approval did a lot to fill the hole my H's own father had left him with. But there are other holes. I think his mother left him with a pretty big one, too.

 

So, anyway, I can't give him the character that chooses right and wrong for himself. It won't happen and I don't hope for it. But I would like this: I would like for him to understand the importance of honesty in relationships down to the dirt under your toenails.

[merrmeade]

I just wrote about this in another thread but realize it is definitely something that belongs in this thread and is actually more prescient than the H issues.

 

That is the problem of the sister-in-law/aunt OW and our two families' future.

Here's some of what I just wrote elsewhere:

Our kids are in their 30s. My brother's kids are in their 20s. The cousins - hers and my brother's children - are already visiting. When we were still in my parents' home after dDay and they visited, I spoke to her and she was very jealous. Also, she obviously doesn't get it because she texted me last month when an uncle had died to invite me to stay at her house for the funeral! I was shocked and shaken but did not answer.

 

I worry about being hurt again in the future, if or when she decides it's been long enough and convinces her children, who try to convince mine, that we should all be one big family again. I need for my kids to understand that this can never be possible, and I hope they support that fact - as does H. The reasons are basically that I did not choose, need or want reconciliation with their aunt. To do so and try to bring our families together again would minimize, ridicule and deny what had been done to me and what I have gone through. It can never happen and that is not my choice or fault. To try and blame me for keeping our two families apart would be cruel and wrong.

 

I told H that I was thinking of writing her but he does not agree. He thinks I should wait and see if things start going in this direction, see if she actually does this.

 

I think I should at least tell my children what I feel.

[BetrayedH]

Thanks, Spark, for sticking with me on this.

 

It's just that - when I think I'm ready to, you know, all we're saying: let it go, move on, etc. - I realize that's exactly the moment he's wanted since dDay 1 but for different reasons. Letting go and moving on for him is Rug Sweeping 101.

 

And it's not just bitterness or need to rub his face in it. It's who he is in everything. He's someone who - if left to himself - easily blurs the line between truth and untruth, seeking only the one that separates hassle and comfort. If untruth makes someone else leave the status quo alone, he's fine with it. Whew, no confrontation. Doesn't notice the little ethical choices of his own life unless they're pointed out. Well, progress is that NOW I can point this out tactfully and he accepts it, but this isn't creating actual, deep, character-forming change. In fact, I've seen bad signs lately though not toward cheating. I don't worry about cheating any more. I mean, telling him constantly the pain and need to know I was feeling made a lasting impression, I'm very sure. So you may think, well, then what? Well, what is - I can't go back to that relationship of lies between us either. So I have this higher standard, I think. And he's just not getting close enough. For example, here's what I wrote earlier today on another thread about telling older children (the BW was writing about the pain she sees that her BH feels seeing his children's looks and disappointment in him):

 

So, writing that, I thought to myself - What would he understand by reading that? Why can't I say this to him so he GETS it?

 

I mean, I've always thought that he all he really wanted - ironically - was to be considered a good, noble, fair, compassionate man but at the same time there it was definitely a goodness, etc. that he wanted to be recognized. I think the most he ever got out of a relationship that really softened him and reduced his need for admiration was with my father, who by most people's reckoning was true Renaissance man with compassion and nobility. Winning his love and approval did a lot to fill the hole my H's own father had left him with. But there are other holes. I think his mother left him with a pretty big one, too.

 

So, anyway, I can't give him the character that chooses right and wrong for himself. It won't happen and I don't hope for it. But I would like this: I would like for him to understand the importance of honesty in relationships down to the dirt under your toenails.

 

I also put honesty as one of my core needs. Do you think you can get him to 'get it?' It seems that you can't just accept things the way they are without it, yet, he doesn't get it. I think many times the WS just shuts down out of that shame business, and feeling punished. Your H is also an avoider by nature. Is there anything about his words or actions that signal a potential for change? Is there a way to change your method of communication to make it a safer environment for him to be honest?

[merrmeade]

I also put honesty as one of my core needs. Do you think you can get him to 'get it?' It seems that you can't just accept things the way they are without it, yet, he doesn't get it. I think many times the WS just shuts down out of that shame business, and feeling punished. Your H is also an avoider by nature. Is there anything about his words or actions that signal a potential for change? Is there a way to change your method of communication to make it a safer environment for him to be honest?

 

These are helpful observations and useful questions. Thank you. Thinking...

[almond]

I just finished reading through your other thread, and my heart genuinely goes out to you. I'm just going to lay my thoughts out here for you, and I apologise in advance if they hurt in any way.

 

I genuinely feel that whilst you have been logical and respectable throughout this ordeal, you have also been your own worst enemy. Being stuck in limbo like this is absolutely horrible. I am not judging - I cannot imagine anything like this. I just believe that if you had been resolute and stuck by your own conditions (full disclosure, earning back of trust etc. or you walk), that this pain would have been almost over by now. It has saddened me to read your story, and saddened me more to see you back here, stuck in the same thought loops but unable to make a decision.

 

How did you end up going with the IC?

 

He is a sad shell of a man who is watching himself die a coward. I don't hate him. I just don't need him. He needs someone, however.

 

This struck me, and apologies if I am out of line here...

 

You love this man, on some level. You created a life together, and don't know adult life without him. He always has been and always will be, a part of who you are. Do you really want to live like this, watching this man die, unable to forgive, full of resentment and anger? Do you feel as though you will be free to live and move on only once he dies? Don't sit there full of hatred and confusion, waiting for this.

 

Is there anyone in his family that could help care for him?

 

I just really feel that once he is gone, that you would feel a hell of a lot better if you could somehow have a relationship that wasn't damaging to you both. Living separately and having a civil relationship, perhaps even helping to care for him when he is ill, would be much more fulfilling and pleasant for the both of you. You could in time become friends, and the end of this saga and a huge chapter in both of your lives would end on a much happier note than it will if you continue as is. You are both still living the pain and associated feelings that came from the betrayals...do you want to live this out till the end of his or your days? You could start something new, something much, much better. You could be good friends to each other, even if you can't be good as husband and wife. You can become important and positive for one another again, but not as you are currently.

 

Sorry to be all doom and gloom, and speak about the inevitable...death. I apologise if this was hard to read at all. I just felt that it was worth considering.

 

You don't have to live like this <3

 

P.S. my mother also suffered a severe stroke when I was 21...I feel your pain on this. My heart goes out to you and your family.

[VeronicaRoss]

Go online and check to see if there is a 12 step support group for partners of sex addicts. S-Anon is the name of one of the types of groups. You need the support of peers.

[merrmeade]

These last two posts - especially Almond's - I really appreciate, especially the time and thought you put into it. A lot of people have said here that they are touched by what I've gone through and have invested a lot of time into reading through the long threads related to my story. I just added a few unnecesary posts to my first thread and ended up feeling a bit hurt by - what felt like - the cavalier and uninformed judgments. It felt like people were cruising at the zoo, and my unusual circumstances and willingness to lay myself out there was their right and my obligation to give. The sensitive, apologetic even, way you gave me your reflections was very diffierent. I thank you for that.

 

But it does make me think that maybe what's so painful to watch is the way I just keep myself opened up to injury - even here. I don't protect myself - ever. Everything - EVERYthing - is just all out there all the time. And my marriage is to someone who is the polar opposite of that - incapable of sharing the dark secret recesses of himself.

 

I really appreciate what both of you said and will look into the S-anon resource. My hesitation about that? My SIL (the OW) used to attend and extol the benefits of some Al-anon group. (She took/takes anti-depressants and - as everyone says - is in emotional turmoil at all times.) She tried to tell me I'm a co-dependent "just like" her about 3 mos. after dDay. It would be hard for me to seek help from anything that she recommended. Sorry to be so inflexible, but it's like a "trigger." It would feel like she were nearby. Shudderrrrrrr.

Edited March 13, 2014 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

I sincerely hope BH that it won't be too long before your misfortune turns around and you begin to experience a freedom you might not think possible at this time.

 

 

It won't always be so horrid for a man who essentially bears honour, justice and good character. Your children have a great role model, despite your temporary (and fully justified) moment of insanity.

 

Experience said this very well and a lot of other things. I was so disappointed just now to find out she is no longer a member (and if I'm not allowed to say that I know this, guess I'll find out). I waited too long to answer her PM, and I'm sad. She had some great posts and threads and professional experience (I think). I was finally ready - and, poof! Disappeared.

[BetrayedH]

Experience said this very well and a lot of other things. I was so disappointed just now to find out she is no longer a member (and if I'm not allowed to say that I know this, guess I'll find out). I waited too long to answer her PM, and I'm sad. She had some great posts and threads and professional experience (I think). I was finally ready - and, poof! Disappeared.

 

It was kind of her to say and kind of you to reinforce. I continue to be humbled by the support I receive here despite some of the atrocious mistakes I made.