Mondmellonw Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 What is love? What "love" means? OK. Love is undefined. But to me, toxic relationships are anything but love. Love is trust, love is companionship, love is passion, love is loyalty, love is respect, love is the ability to know how "let go" of the little mistakes, but to know how to set boundaries and limits... I think that almost everything is fixable if the person wants to change, but, come on. There are many things I will never let go in a relationship... Call me stubborn or whatever. But I will n-e-v-e-r (lol) let go of something like, let's say, cheating. Yes: forgiveness is the key to move on without any baggage (or less as possible) but staying stuck with an issue like this is something I wouldn't do. Why would you stay? Is this love, or is this emotional attachment? How to know if we really love someone? I guess everyone expects different things when it comes to relationships, and as they say, you'll never have a good relationship with anybody if you don't have a good relationship with yourself. So my main point is: relationships are complicated because we make them that way. If you manipulate, cheat, lie, abuse, whatever then you're clearly not showing love. Words are meaningless in most cases, but... if actions are good, then words must be taken as another actual prove. What do you think about this? Maaaaaybe... I just gotta accept that I want something that doesn't really exists.
StringsAttached Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 imo 'love' is is commitment. Love is the struggle two people endure through thick in thin while staying in the boundaries of a healthy relationship. Words are meaningless, when someone tells you they'll be with you forever, never believe them. Let their actions show you if they mean it or not. Honestly, i've been doing research and there's a reason why Asian marriages work. There is little or no love in the beginning of the relationship. The love grows through responsibility, hardships and coping with one another. I've read/heard about so many couples who've been married for countless years and then divorced after an argument about who would take the garbage out. It's absolutely ridiculous... I'm positive love marriage can work, but only after a long courting process in which you learn as much as you possibly can about your S/O. It's really difficult and it putting me off dating. Maybe true love is random and not some 'process'. 1
MixedMinh Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 My opinion: Love is about giving. Not about receiving. It's a judgement and a decision. An act of pure will. If you want to read a very interesting philosophy on love, read Erich Fromm's "The Art Of Loving" and check this link out: What Is Love? (from 2/8/11) | What Is Real True Love? 1
Author Mondmellonw Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 I know the book and I studied Fromm's psychology at college. I agree that he has a great philosophy about "what REAL love is" (and like StringsAttached said, is has to do with commitment too)... Ah... Funny thing is, Erich Fromm cheated on his wife with a co-worker.
MixedMinh Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 We all make mistakes, especially when it comes to love. 1
JDPT Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 So many elements to consider when it comes to it. We live, learn, and improvise. 1
Never Again Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 You've opened up a can of worms with me, but I don't have time to write anything now, so here's a post I wrote a loooong time ago: People get so concerned with how a significant other "makes them feel". Since when did we become responsible for how someone else feels? I take responsibility for my own happiness and expect any girl I'm with to do the same. I harp on this, and have many times on this forum, because it's a huge thorn in my side. Yet another quote that expresses how I feel on the subject: “Love is a temporary madness, it erupts like volcanoes and then subsides. And when it subsides, you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion, it is not the desire to mate every second minute of the day, it is not lying awake at night imagining that he is kissing every cranny of your body. No, don’t blush, I am telling you some truths. That is just being “in love”, which any fool can do. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident.” ― Louis de Bernières I believe that happy and healthy relationships are those where we *choose* to maintain them. Love (and "in love"), in some respects, is a choice. Anyone who claims that they "can't change how they feel", or "cannot act against their feelings" is absolutely full of it. Now, they may have good reason to choose to leave the relationship. Errors, incompatibilities and hurt can erode at the source of love. But just because the "feeling" isn't there? That is selfishness. That is expecting someone to put the butterflies in your tummy and excite you forever, and if they don't, you abandon them. That is expecting to feel "in love" all the time with someone, and if it drops before a certain baseline, you bounce. Expecting to always feel "in love" is expecting my partner to excite me and make me happy, always. Expecting to "just feel it" all the time is, in essence, expecting your partner to do all the work for you. That kind of expectation is cancer to a relationship. That's an addiction to the feeling of love. That is a lack of effort and a willingness to quit. If a relationship is unsatisfying, toxic or hollow - if there truly are no redeeming qualities - I support leaving beyond a shadow of a doubt. But I *do* get irritated when I see both dumpers and dumpees alike feel torn and heartbroken because they weren't "feeling it" and just assumed the relationship was dead before even taking its pulse. I believe that a happy and healthy relationship is full of love, support, and acceptance. It's bonding. I do not need to feel attraction towards my partner all the time. I need a *best friend* (who, yes, I will be attracted to more often than not...sex *is* an important part of it...just not the most important part). I need a literal partner. Someone who will back me up. I accept that sometimes I will feel more "in love", sometimes I will feel less, and sometimes I won't feel it at all. I accept that my partner will annoy me, bore me, inadvertently hurt me and occasionally ignore me. I accept this because I know that I am responsible for my own happiness, love and excitement. If I start to get bored with me relationship, then it becomes my responsibility to do something fun. If I don't feel the connection, it's my responsibility to communicate. If I don't feel the attraction, it's my responsibility to be romantic and seduce her. It's not just being happy on your own that brings a long, happy relationship - it's being responsible for yourself. Being independent even when together. As least, that's my belief. 4
Author Mondmellonw Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 You made my day with that.
Never Again Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I never read Fromm before now, but I'd like to think my point of view doesn't differ too much from his. I very firmly believe that love is more choice and attachment than feeling. When I look for an ideal girlfriend, I want someone that I can connect with and talk to. Someone who'll call me on my crap, challenge me, want to make just as many decisions as I will, and is willing to communicate and (god forbid) COMPLAIN about what bothers her in the relationship. I want someone who, if they're stricken by sickness and made completely sexually unavailable/unattractive for awhile, that I'll still happily spend time with...someone who, when they're upset and hurt and no fun at all to be around, I'll still want to offer support and encouragement to. If I don't have that funny, euphoric feeling...that draw, that chemistry anymore that I used to have...if the "romantic connection" has dwindled or negative feelings and stress have built up...I'll work through all if it if I love them. Not "in love", that's fleeting. LOVE. Attachment. Commitment. Connection. If I'm with a girl, the true testament of whether I love her is if I'm willing to consistently put her needs before mine, and if I'm willing to support her goals and aspirations even if they'd be detrimental to the relationship. Love is boredom. Love is excitement. It's special moments and everday affairs. It's dancing in the moonlight and scrubbing vomit-covered sheets. It's happiness, sadness, anger, frustration, depression and anxiety. It's romantic and mundane. It is strength and weakness, dignity and disrespect. It's maintaining boundaries and breaking them. It'll be absolute misery because it'll force me to grow, and personal growth is difficult, painful and embarrassing...and most of all, it'll all be worthwhile, because it made me a better person. Edited February 22, 2014 by Pfenixphire 4
Never Again Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 You made my day with that. Haha, it might be completely off base, but I'm glad I could lend some positivity. I'm a bit wordy, when it comes down to it. 1
mantlefan Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I wonder if love can be one-sided. For me, my relationship of 5 years with my ex of 7 months was real. But when it really got tough for the first time, she didn't want to fight anymore. She jumped ship for a younger, more physically attractive guy. She then lied to me about the real reason for months. From what I know about her (or what is left of who I thought I knew), she hates feeling like a bad person. Telling me the truth apparently would make her feel worse than building up lies. It REALLY hurts, but whatever she felt for me was not love. Real love wouldn't have given up that easily. And Mond, I think I see what you mean about forgiving but not letting go. I think it is mature to admit to yourself that after someone cheats on you once, you just can't trust they won't do it again. I wish, if my ex came back, we could be there and fight for each other. But I don't want to live a life where I would be jealous and wondering if she is going to cheat on me and leave me for another man again. 2
Author Mondmellonw Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 I never read Fromm before now, but I'd like to think my point of view doesn't differ too much from his. I very firmly believe that love is more choice and attachment than feeling. When I look for an ideal girlfriend, I want someone that I can connect with and talk to. Someone who'll call me on my crap, challenge me, want to make just as many decisions as I will, and is willing to communicate and (god forbid) COMPLAIN about what bothers her in the relationship. I want someone who, if they're stricken by sickness and made completely sexually unavailable/unattractive for awhile, that I'll still happily spend time with...someone who, when they're upset and hurt and no fun at all to be around, I'll still want to offer support and encouragement to. If I don't have that funny, euphoric feeling...that draw, that chemistry anymore that I used to have...if the "romantic connection" has dwindled or negative feelings and stress have built up...I'll work through all if it if I love them. Not "in love", that's fleeting. LOVE. Attachment. Commitment. Connection. If I'm with a girl, the true testament of whether I love her is if I'm willing to consistently put her needs before mine, and if I'm willing to support her goals and aspirations even if they'd be detrimental to the relationship. Love is boredom. Love is excitement. It's special moments and everday affairs. It's dancing in the moonlight and scrubbing vomit-covered sheets. It's happiness, sadness, anger, frustration, depression and anxiety. It's romantic and mundane. It is strength and weakness, dignity and disrespect. It's maintaining boundaries and breaking them. It'll be absolute misery because it'll force me to grow, and personal growth is difficult, painful and embarrassing...and most of all, it'll all be worthwhile, because it made me a better person. I agree. I also think that love is about commitment and about independence at the same time, it's putting the other first (... just after your dignity) is to know how to let go when problems are not that big, bla bla. Actually, I was having a great mood when I wrote this entry. Today it's not that good, so my words are a little lazy on my mind. :/
Author Mondmellonw Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 I wonder if love can be one-sided. For me, my relationship of 5 years with my ex of 7 months was real. But when it really got tough for the first time, she didn't want to fight anymore. She jumped ship for a younger, more physically attractive guy. She then lied to me about the real reason for months. From what I know about her (or what is left of who I thought I knew), she hates feeling like a bad person. Telling me the truth apparently would make her feel worse than building up lies. It REALLY hurts, but whatever she felt for me was not love. Real love wouldn't have given up that easily. And Mond, I think I see what you mean about forgiving but not letting go. I think it is mature to admit to yourself that after someone cheats on you once, you just can't trust they won't do it again. I wish, if my ex came back, we could be there and fight for each other. But I don't want to live a life where I would be jealous and wondering if she is going to cheat on me and leave me for another man again. I also think that my ex never loved me. Maybe their love was not ever-lasting, and was not honest and more. lol No, it was not love. ¿?
Itspointless Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I want someone who, if they're stricken by sickness and made completely sexually unavailable/unattractive for awhile, that I'll still happily spend time with...someone who, when they're upset and hurt and no fun at all to be around, I'll still want to offer support and encouragement to. Isn't that right. Love isn't only about fun and happiness. 1
Recommended Posts