janedoe67 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Funny thing is, he could easily contact her on his own - he really doesn't need your permission. My guess is, if you put restrictions on his contact, he may seem to comply, but later will do what he feels he needs to do. Sorry, but that is just the way things are. He is either done with the A or not, whatever decision you make on this will have little bearing on the outcome in the end. JMO If he does this, that will tell you everything you need to know about whether or not he is worth reconciling with. Period. 2
ZMM Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 A big part of a successful reconciliation is for both spouses to learn what the boundaries are both for their own actions and what behaviour they will or will not tolerate in their spouse. Learning to find one's voice is really important, as is learning to say when something is going on that makes you uncomfortable. Again, she has every right to voice her opinion. He has every right to choose whether or not to act upon it. If he chooses not to, then they both need to sort outshine ere they will go from there. Yeah - and what I am saying is not that she does not have the right to say it, I am saying in my opinion, whether the affair ends and their relationship is salvageable is not necessarily in her control, not necessarily based on how she determines how he should close out the affair relationship. It could be argued that it is better for he WH and OW to have a certain closure in order to give the reconciliation a better change - you may disagree, but it does not make you right in all cases. 2
ZMM Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 If he does this, that will tell you everything you need to know about whether or not he is worth reconciling with. Period. The only problem is, she may not know, so in that case, it wouldn't really tell her anything.
ZMM Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 IMO as a FWS this is an extremely bad idea. What does "however he wants to handle it" mean? One last sentimental roll in the hay? That's not what I meant. I was thinking more of a conversation that you would have in a typical breakup situation. It can close things out and allow both parties to move on. You may feel they don't deserve that, they may feel differently. Either way, it doesn't really do a whole lot of good for reconciliation if WS is pining away for OW. The bottom line is, WS is going to do what they want to do in the end and you may or may not know what that is. 2
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Everything here is my opinion. Your partner still is conflicted about you vs. other woman. He has confided everything in other woman, she knows all about you, and he knows all about her partner. They are on the inside and you and other woman's partner are on the outside. They have secrets. They need privacy to say their last goodbye's, to pledge their love for each other one last time, to lament how they wished it could have been different, blah, blah, blah. Then he is going to return to the relationship with you. I think you would be better off without him. Tell him if he wants her so bad, he should go be with her. You've been together 10 years and he can't decide? He's having that hard of a time committing to you over her? He is negotiating ending an affair that was hurtful to you in a way that will be even more hurtful to you? And you want to stay with this guy because ... ? Why? 4
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 My partner of ten years had a emotional affair that eventually turned physical. I suspected the affair for a few months as he was quite candid about how close he was becoming to the other woman. He originally said they were just really good friends. I quit my job suddenly after realizing how far apart we were drifting. I went back to my usual job and started spending more time with him. It was terrible - He became extremely depressed (and refused to tell me why). He questioned whether or not he loved me like a partner or just as a friend. He started questioning the future plans we had together. It was like someone stole my old partner and replaced him with someone who was 100% different. And this was after I made the choice to leave my job to strengthen our relationship (backfire!) I questioned this sudden change but he continually said "If I knew what was wrong I would tell you". he finally admitted they had an emotional relationship that turned physical during my last stint working out of town. He has denied sex but says they made out and touched each other. I think we can fix this. I think he loves her but he realizes that it can't work. I told him he could never speak to her again and he agrees. I sent her a message asking her never to speak to him again. He says he wants to call her for the final goodbye. He also says he would prefer to do it alone (without me there). It seems that you want him way more than he wants you. I am skeptical about you knowing the extent of their emotional and physical involvement. I don't understand why you would want him if he is in love with someone else. In my opinion, the final call - in secret - is one more sign that he values her over you. Why does he realize it can't work with her? 4
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 He wants privacy for several possible reasons: 1)To get their stories straight. If he is minimizing or trickle-truthing you, he wants to make sure she won't say anything more incriminating to you. He also wants her to know what he told you in case you should tell her husband. Because if she tells him something else, you and her BS may compare notes. 2) tearful goodbye. What Mickey said. He gets his romantic ending and gets to end as her knight. He may also use this time to tell her a sob story about why he's staying with you. If he does it in person, there is a strong possibility of a "last kiss," or something more. 3) Closure. I really wanted this after my A. The further I get from it, though, the more I realize that you can never truly get "closure." It's a myth, a literary device to wrap up a movie or book. Anything they say will just lead to new questions, desires, etc, which leads to need for another round of closure. 4) He wants to feel her out and see if she wants to leave her H. If she does, he may be willing to leave you for her. Unlikely, as they do rarely leave, but possible. Notice that none of these things is a positive. Every moment he spends with her is another moment of the affair. One lightbulb moment I had on here was the realization that as long as you are having contact, the affair is still in progress, even if nothing is "happening." This is why APs can't remain friends. If he needs to tell her in person or on the phone, you need to be there with him. No lovey goodbyes, no chances for lies, no scoping the other out. "The affair is over and I'm choosing to stay with my wife. Please do not contact me again." That is all that needs to be said. 6
ZMM Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 3) Closure. I really wanted this after my A. The further I get from it, though, the more I realize that you can never truly get "closure." It's a myth, a literary device to wrap up a movie or book. Anything they say will just lead to new questions, desires, etc, which leads to need for another round of closure. You really can get closure, but not if you are still in love. But if you are in love with someone else, why reconcile?
gettingstronger Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 This is how I handled it and its a bit different from some of the others- for me, I wanted to know right off the bat that he wanted me, just me and for the right reasons-not out of fear, not out of losing the kids, the house, etc... I told him I would walk away clean and allow him to do the same-no threats, no outing him, none of that- AND I wanted him to do NC privately and in person if possible- I wanted him to make sure that before I started on this painful journey with him that HE wanted it and me-I wanted him to have the closure he needed, even if that meant he decided he wanted her, not me-he was scheduled to go to her town on business (thats where they met up) and he offered to cancel the trip- I said no, I did not want him if he could not control himself-if seeing her to call it off meant he was going to sleep with her or have regrets about staying than thats what needed to happen-I did not want to second guess myself or him, it was a one time offer after that no contact for any reason, ever- so, he offered to meet her, she declined, so they talked on the phone- I then had him write a NC email just kind of summarizing what they talked about and stressing that his decision was final and had him CC me so she knew that she could "out" him if need be- All sounds great right? Well, as she did the whole time, she tried to play cool and really shot herself in the foot, she did not take the closure when offered- she called him 2x a few days later but he had shut the door and did not answer the phone, listen to the message or call back-(he deleted it un-listening to in front of me of his own accord)- a few months (if that) she started intruding in our lives, how she missed him and wish she had taken him up on the offer to meet, etc... and that she wanted more than she told him during the A, and so much other stuff- by then the door was shut tight- he never responded- she started harassing me- forwarding me old VM from him, a list of sex acts shared, etc... UGH- finally we have legal involved and its been a few weeks of no intrusions (this started 13 months ago!) So- moral is- do what you feel is right but remember you can only control you and even if you feel like you made the right choice, your partner could have potentially invited a wack job in to your life and you will have to deal with that too- Good luck- its not fun and I am sorry you are in our sad little club- 6
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 This is how I handled it and its a bit different from some of the others- for me, I wanted to know right off the bat that he wanted me, just me and for the right reasons-not out of fear, not out of losing the kids, the house, etc... I told him I would walk away clean and allow him to do the same-no threats, no outing him, none of that- AND I wanted him to do NC privately and in person if possible- I wanted him to make sure that before I started on this painful journey with him that HE wanted it and me-I wanted him to have the closure he needed, even if that meant he decided he wanted her, not me-he was scheduled to go to her town on business (thats where they met up) and he offered to cancel the trip- I said no, I did not want him if he could not control himself-if seeing her to call it off meant he was going to sleep with her or have regrets about staying than thats what needed to happen-I did not want to second guess myself or him, it was a one time offer after that no contact for any reason, ever- so, he offered to meet her, she declined, so they talked on the phone- I then had him write a NC email just kind of summarizing what they talked about and stressing that his decision was final and had him CC me so she knew that she could "out" him if need be.- Definitely merits to this approach. But the key is that she offered it on HER terms. 2
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 You really can get closure, but not if you are still in love. But if you are in love with someone else, why reconcile? Right after DDay, WS is a jumble of emotions. In my case, I didn't know what I felt. I wouldn't call it love, but certainly my feelings for OM didn't just stop on DDay. I believe that in a year or two (or more) from now, if I ran into OM and talked to him I might be able to find closure. But the week of DDay? Hell no! It would've raised more questions! My thoughts and concerns evolved rapidly over the first 6 months, and the closure I wanted in month 1 wasn't the same closure I wanted in month 4. Does that mean that right after DDay I could say goodbye, then when my thoughts/feelings evolved by month two, we could meet again for additional closure? The repeat at month 4, then month 6? No way would any BS put up with that. That's how someone often finds closure after a breakup, because most people don't go complete NC. But after an A, that's simply not possible. It would be continuing the affair. 4
whichwayisup Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I believe that in a year or two (or more) from now, if I ran into OM and talked to him I might be able to find closure. But the week of DDay? Hell no! It would've raised more questions! If you run into your OM in a year or two or three, you should not need closure from him anymore. There's absolutely no reason to speak to him after so long and especially since you and your husband are working together to salvage your marriage. Doing so would put a real dent in the recovery of your marriage and the trust your husband has in you. I would hope if you ran into your OM, you'd walk the other way. 4
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 If you run into your OM in a year or two or three, you should not need closure from him anymore. There's absolutely no reason to speak to him after so long and especially since you and your husband are working together to salvage your marriage. Doing so would put a real dent in the recovery of your marriage and the trust your husband has in you. I would hope if you ran into your OM, you'd walk the other way. Right, that's the irony of it. I think it would provide closure only because I would no longer need it or want it. I meant it completely hypothetically, addressing the concept of closure, not the reality of seeing OM eventually. If that did happen, I would not talk to him and would tell H that I had seen him. Because of the size of the town, it is likely that I will eventually run into him, unless he moves, so it is important to know how to handle it (turn and walk away).
beach Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Right, that's the irony of it. I think it would provide closure only because I would no longer need it or want it. I meant it completely hypothetically, addressing the concept of closure, not the reality of seeing OM eventually. If that did happen, I would not talk to him and would tell H that I had seen him. Because of the size of the town, it is likely that I will eventually run into him, unless he moves, so it is important to know how to handle it (turn and walk away). Why would you tell us this when you've been searching out your OM behind your husbands back? You'd walk away without say anything? I don't believe that's what you'd do. You lead your H to believe you are reconciling but still checking on your OM - why are you still willing to harm your husband? Why is your OM worth risking your M?
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Why would you tell us this when you've been searching out your OM behind your husbands back? You'd walk away without say anything? I don't believe that's what you'd do. You lead your H to believe you are reconciling but still checking on your OM - why are you still willing to harm your husband? Why is your OM worth risking your M? To avoid t/j, I revived an old (related) thread to answer this one: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/411016-what-does-nc-mean-you-3.html#post5542702
experiencethedevine Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Yeah - and what I am saying is not that she does not have the right to say it, I am saying in my opinion, whether the affair ends and their relationship is salvageable is not necessarily in her control, not necessarily based on how she determines how he should close out the affair relationship. It could be argued that it is better for he WH and OW to have a certain closure in order to give the reconciliation a better change - you may disagree, but it does not make you right in all cases. Complete and utter tosh (in my opinion) ....................................... Edited February 22, 2014 by experiencethedevine 1
experiencethedevine Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) The only problem is, she may not know, so in that case, it wouldn't really tell her anything. Exactly. And this from someone who first arrived here asking whether they should tell their wife about the contact made behind her back with the other woman. Hardly conducive to a healthy recovery from a life led clandestinely is it? It is ludicrously dangerous to assume that a meeting/discussion via telephone/email for 'closure' will do anything positive after dday when emotions are running at 100 miles an hour for all three of the people involved in the clandestine triangle. It is likely that the opposite will occur and cause further damage simply by virtue of the fact that the betrayed spouse will have no idea what has been discussed between the wayward and the other, and left to their own imagination will be thinking the worst. Disrespectful to a betrayed spouse. If this is to happen clandestinely, then just as the affair was uncovered, such an act during the very delicate stages of negotiation and attempts at repair might well result in the demise of the marriage. For goodness sake, if one is considering such action, either have the balls to end the whole sordid saga in a way that is acceptable to the person you have disrespected in the most horrendous way, or eff off with your self centred 'do it my way' attitude and see how fast the roses grow around your 'other' alternative. Edited February 22, 2014 by experiencethedevine 3
WasOtherWoman Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) The best advice always given that works the most is to trash, degrade and diminish the relationship the WS and AP had. Get the WS out of the fog. You don't do this by giving value to the affair. You do it by trashing it and degrading it.[/quote When I read this I can't help but think about someone sticking a pet's nose in the mess they made on the floor. With all due respect, regardless of the situation, it is never a good idea to become a parent to your wandering spouse. I am hoping that your words on here don't exactly match your words when dealing with your WS edited: the above did not exactly come out as intended. I am NOT suggesting that you need to coddle your WS, but the trashing and degrading of the affair (and I am certainly NOT saying you should be condoning it!) sounds to me very parental. Edited February 22, 2014 by WasOtherWoman edited to add last paragraph 1
WasOtherWoman Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 The best advice is always to expose the affair, trash it and degrade. That way the WS gets out of the fog. Yes, I completely understand the desire to get the WS back into reality. But I am just never a fan of degrading anyone. I believe that it will have long term repercussions on the marriage that you are trying to save. Of course, that is just my opinion. Can you degrade the affair without actually degrading the WS? I am having a hard time separating the two.... 3
WasOtherWoman Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Sure, we all make stupid decisions in life and look back on it. No one is perfect. Degrading the affair is not about degrading the people involved, but bringing to light the damage it has done and how stupid the decision to enter the affair was. To not treat it like a proper relationship by providing the type of closure a proper relationship can provide. OK, that makes more sense ... not degrading your WS yet not acknowledging the affair as a proper relationship. Thank you for clarifying. I have always been very sensitive to never falling into the position of my husband's parent and this was sounding that way to me.
janedoe67 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Sure, we all make stupid decisions in life and look back on it. No one is perfect. Degrading the affair is not about degrading the people involved, but bringing to light the damage it has done and how stupid the decision to enter the affair was. To not treat it like a proper relationship by providing the type of closure a proper relationship can provide. It depends on the approach one has been brainwashed into using. There are most certainly a few approaches out that there that - when cultishly applied - definitely DO degrade. Luckily people of reason who can think for themselves do not usually go off the deep end that way. I agree. Call the action what it was - WRONG. 2
Sadwife37 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 On DDay - maybe 1 hour after I found out - my H sent OW an email. It basically said " my wife knows everything. I don't ever want to see you or hear from you again. I love my family and am doing everything I can to save my marriage. This was all a horrible mistake that I regret". That was it. They have had no contact since. She did not reply to his email. It has now been 27 months. 5
rumbleseat Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Yeah - and what I am saying is not that she does not have the right to say it, I am saying in my opinion, whether the affair ends and their relationship is salvageable is not necessarily in her control, not necessarily based on how she determines how he should close out the affair relationship. It could be argued that it is better for he WH and OW to have a certain closure in order to give the reconciliation a better change - you may disagree, but it does not make you right in all cases. Better for whom? The ow? The ws? This thread seems to be written by a bs expressing her feelings and thoughts. I don't think anyone is saying that she can force her spouse to reconcile if she doesn't want to. What is really important is that she express her feelings. If does not, or if she goes along with things she doesn't like just to placate him,she may grow resentful of her husband. At least if she expresses her opinion, then she will have stood up for herself. If he wants to leave, so be it. Reconciliation is not the time for a bs to bite their tongue. If you haven't been in that position, you wouldn't understand how she feels. 4
rumbleseat Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 OP, I would read all the responses and see which ones resonate the most with you and your individual situation. What of you think is the right thing to do, given the people involved? 2
Author Becs1234 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Posted November 4, 2014 I wanted to send everyone an update. My partner and I are still together. Things are better and we are continuing to work on things. My days are typically happy, and the deep sadness and betrayal I initially felt seem to be slowly disappearing. Leaving him would have been the easy way out for me (no children, minimal assets). Staying to work on the relationship and figure out this **** situation has been an extremely empowering experience - even though it was also incredibly painful. I am very thankful for having found Dr. Hartley's website (re: emotional needs, how do affairs begin, coping, etc.). I was better able to understand how this could have happened to us and what I was in for. Sending positive thoughts to everyone out there in the acute stages of your ****ty ****ty ordeal.
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