Becs1234 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Hello everyone, I am new here. My partner of ten years had a emotional affair that eventually turned physical. I will give you the history and then ask a question at the end. History: Our relationship definitely had a number of stressors - I took a job out of town that required I travel quite frequently. It was a strenuous job and whenever I was home I was not providing the usual amount of companionship and time with my partner. I realized that at the time but since this job was only going to be for 18 months I decided to plow through. I suspected the affair for a few months as he was quite candid about how close he was becoming to the other woman. He originally said they were just really good friends and I felt like I would be too demanding/jealous asking him to take a step back. She was also in a relationship where her partner did a lot of traveling. He would invite her over when I was gone and they would cook together, walk the dog together, exercise together, etc. I quit my job suddenly after realizing how far apart we were drifting. I went back to my usual job and started spending more time with him. It was terrible - He became extremely depressed (and refused to tell me why). He questioned whether or not he loved me like a partner or just as a friend. He started questioning the future plans we had together. It was like someone stole my old partner and replaced him with someone who was 100% different. And this was after I made the choice to leave my job to strengthen our relationship (backfire!) I questioned this sudden change but he continually said "If I knew what was wrong I would tell you". Over the course of a month things slowly started to get better. Although he was a little distant, I definitely felt more positive about our relationship. Last month I took his phone and looked through the last messages they sent one another. I was shocked to find that he had asked her if she told her partner yet about them. She said she had. He said he was scared to tell me. She said she thought her relationship with her partner would survive. He said he thought the same thing about his relationship with me. I approached him about this and he finally admitted they had an emotional relationship that turned physical during my last stint working out of town. He has denied sex but says they made out and touched each other. QUESTION: We are working on things. I think we can fix this. I think he loves her but he realizes that it can't work. I told him he could never speak to her again and he agrees. I sent her a message asking her never to speak to him again. He says he wants to call her for the final goodbye. He also says he would prefer to do it alone (without me there). I don't know if I feel comfortable about this! He wants to be able to have dialogue with her and to ensure that what he says gets interpreted properly. I don't think misinterpretation should matter so long as she understands the relationship is over. I worry that a dialogue may make things worse. Help!
cozycottagelg Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I think to ensure that she sticks to NC, she needs to hear it's over from him. Whether that be in person, on the phone or a letter.
katielee Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 a letter, mailed by you and no further contact. any "final closure" correspondence would be a dealbreaker for me. This shouldn't happen with a relationship that should have never existed in the first place. My husband fought with me on this = he wanted final closure his way. i said you had 28 days (length of the affair) to do that. And it is so very disrespectful to the spouse when this happens. And the way he wants to do it - without you there - is a huge red flag. Put your foot down and keep it there. 5
Author Becs1234 Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 Thank you both for your quick replies. At first I was really against any further contact between them (after I sent her a message). A few days ago she sent him a text that he showed me. I understand that for her to get the hint it may need to come from him. It's just how it is delivered. I would prefer he write a letter that I co-sign. He seems to want to hear her opinions of the matter too - he doesn't like the idea of a letter because there is no dialogue. He said he would prefer phone (knowing that in-person is totally not happening). He mentioned that he would say different things to her if I was around versus if I was not around. He insinuated that he may have better closure if he could just say everything he needs to (aka without me there). I initially agreed and then spent some time thinking it through and searching some sites. I now think it is a really bad idea to have a telephone conversation without me present. I am not sure if I even like the concept of a telephone conversation because I don't think anything she could say to him could help OUR relationship. In fact, I think it may make things worse (i.e. if she admitted love, admitted that her relationship with her partner is ending, admitting this is harder than she thought, or even agreed that the relationship they had was wrong - by agreeing they are almost strengthening the bond between them - a common pain they are both experiencing).
ZMM Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I would allow him to have his final goodbye how ever he wants to handle it. You can demand he doesn't, but if he decides it is something he needs to do, he may just do it anyway. He is an adult here, he is not your child. You are not his mother. If his relationship with you is going to survive, it will. This isn't going to be the deciding factor - unless you can't handle. If you can't handle it, tell him that and let him decide what he wants to do. JMO 4
katielee Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 - by agreeing they are almost strengthening the bond between them - a common pain they are both experiencing). you nailed it here... there will be some "you are my soulmate but I have to try to work it out with my partner" type of crap said. Enough of the "I would prefer" type stuff. It should be, "i agree to recover with you if....." and then stand your ground. You are letting him off WAY too easy, IMHO. 3
rumbleseat Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I would allow him to have his final goodbye how ever he wants to handle it. You can demand he doesn't, but if he decides it is something he needs to do, he may just do it anyway. He is an adult here, he is not your child. You are not his mother. If his relationship with you is going to survive, it will. This isn't going to be the deciding factor - unless you can't handle. If you can't handle it, tell him that and let him decide what he wants to do. JMO This isn't about her controlling his actions. It's about her deciding what she can and can not live with. She has every right to make boundaries for herself and her M. She has every right to her opinion for what she needs from him right now. He has every right to decide if those are things he is willing to accept. if he can, great. If he can't , then he needs to tell her that and decide if the marriage is what he wants This isn't her doing something to him, she's doing something for herself and her own peace of mind. As for the ow, she needs to let go. She knows now the relationship is over, and it's time for her to move on. Perhpoas she should worry more about getting her own life in order before involving someone else. 3
WasOtherWoman Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Thinking back to when I was a BW, many years ago... I did call his OW and also requested that he never, ever speak to her again. Why? Because I wanted to prevent her having any closure (which, even having become an OW many years later, I still think is the right of the BS). I wanted to control the situation. That said, looking back on all that i have learned over the years, I think I would not have made that phone call, and would instead have asked him to make it while i was there. Your husband is asking that he be allowed to just call her on his own, without you there. He COULD have just called behind your back and been done with it (there are always ways to do this. Looking back now, I would have to think that my then husband probably did call his OW afterwards, despite my request not to). I think it is definitely a positive sign that he discussed with you. Really though, regardless of what is said between them, it really won't make a difference. He has chosen to stay with you, nothing she says, or he says, will change that. As we all know, things get said during affairs. Most times, in the light of day, it gets realized that those things were just pipe dreams, anyway. That realization generally comes very quickly with D-day. At the end of the day, in my opinion, how exactly this ends.... with him making a phone call with you present, him making it with you in the other room, the outcome will be the same. You obviously need to do what feels best for you, but looking back on things, I am not actually sure the specific details of endings make much of a difference in the long run. Edited February 21, 2014 by WasOtherWoman edited: stray question mark in an inappropriate place in my post...
ZMM Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 This isn't about her controlling his actions. It's about her deciding what she can and can not live with. She has every right to make boundaries for herself and her M. She has every right to her opinion for what she needs from him right now. He has every right to decide if those are things he is willing to accept. if he can, great. If he can't , then he needs to tell her that and decide if the marriage is what he wants This isn't her doing something to him, she's doing something for herself and her own peace of mind. As for the ow, she needs to let go. She knows now the relationship is over, and it's time for her to move on. Perhpoas she should worry more about getting her own life in order before involving someone else. That was the meaning behind my last sentence. If she can't handle it, she needs to tell him that and then he will decide what he wants to do. That is pretty much exactly what you said. As for the OW, I doubt OP has any control over what OW chooses to worry about and how OW handles her own life. Again, JMO
harrybrown Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 If you are not comfortable with this contact, tell him how you feel. I would not be comfortable with him doing it his way. If he want to stay in the relationship with you, he needs to respect your feelings. He has already trampled on your feelings and his boundaries are not good. If he wants to do it his way, show him the door and tell him to go to her. I prefer the letter, but if he has to call, you should be on the line with him. 3
underwater2010 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Personally for me...there would be no further communication or I would be gone. Let alone a "goodbye" phone call without me present. On another note....give him a little credit for being candid with you. Honest conversation after Dday is a big key into whether or not the marriage is salvageable. 1
BetrayedH Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I don't buy the "made out and touched each other" story. It's almost always mularky. What are they, 15 year-olds? It's a very common attempt to minimize the affair in an attempt to "protect you." Do you feel protected? As for going NC, no, they don't need to have closure. They don't need a phone call, at all. They've been there for one another much longer than was appropriate already. Tell him to suck it up and make a choice - it's you or her from this minute on. Any further contact of any kind is a dealbreaker. He's fully transparent and notifies you immediately of any contact she tries to make with him. And if he lies about one godforsaken thing, you're history. A lot of us here wish we had taken a more firm stance when Dday hit. Don 't make the same mistakes. This is now about what YOU need. If he doesn't like it, make sure he knows where the door is located. 5
AlwaysGrowing Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Personally, I would view not wanting you present for a phone call as your husband wanting to control what information is out there. Being that he can not control what she might say on the phone, he wants to tell you his version. With a written letter, she might respond and hard copy details that you would be privy to if you were to intercept the letter. If your husband is not open to you being present, I would definitely question everything he has stated so far. The onus SHOULD be on the one who has lied to prove honesty. 2
ZMM Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Funny thing is, he could easily contact her on his own - he really doesn't need your permission. My guess is, if you put restrictions on his contact, he may seem to comply, but later will do what he feels he needs to do. Sorry, but that is just the way things are. He is either done with the A or not, whatever decision you make on this will have little bearing on the outcome in the end. JMO 2
BetrayedH Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I'm curious, what exactly is being hidden from you in this proposed private conversation? 1
ZMM Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 It's not her job to support the affair. She's to tear it down and break it to the point of humiliation if need be. That's how you see it. And it may or may not work. But, my post said nothing about supporting the A. I just said, either he is over it or he is not. Whatever she chooses to do in this situation will have little bearing on the outcome in the long run. I'm sure she would prefer to believe everything is in her control, if she just makes the right chose. Personally, I don't believe that is the reality. Sorry, we just disagree. JMO 2
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah.....why the need for privacy? I think ALL FOUR OF YOU should meet in a public place, like a restaurant, where ALL FOUR OF YOU get to ask questions and observe reactions and try or get closure. That would be the grown up thing to do, it would be respectful to the spouses, no more secrets, no he said, she said, no bubble without consequences.... THAT should be the ONLY offer on the table, IMO....Four people facing and owning the consequences like adults. 4
AlwaysGrowing Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Funny thing is, he could easily contact her on his own - he really doesn't need your permission. My guess is, if you put restrictions on his contact, he may seem to comply, but later will do what he feels he needs to do. Sorry, but that is just the way things are. He is either done with the A or not, whatever decision you make on this will have little bearing on the outcome in the end. JMO It is not about the WS or the affair. It is about a BS clearly stating their feelings and telling their spouse their boundaries. Her husband has already shown that he won't comply with expectations within a marriage. A BS is fully aware that they do not have control over their WS, or the affair wouldn't have happened in the first place. This is about whether or not a WS is a viable candidate to consider R. Where it comes into play, is the BS has more information to decide the end for themselves instead of handing that solely to the WS. Edited February 21, 2014 by AlwaysGrowing 3
WasOtherWoman Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 That's how you see it. And it may or may not work. But, my post said nothing about supporting the A. I just said, either he is over it or he is not. Whatever she chooses to do in this situation will have little bearing on the outcome in the long run. I'm sure she would prefer to believe everything is in her control, if she just makes the right chose. Personally, I don't believe that is the reality. Sorry, we just disagree. JMO I agree with ZMM. The details of the affair's ending will not matter in the long run. If OP's husband chooses to end the affair, the affair will end. While, as a former BS, I completely get the desire to control the ending, and control what is said, etc. etc. I still firmly believe that, in the long run, the details of the ending will not make a difference. 1
WakingUp Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 The way I see it, the only important factor is that it does END. The mechanics of how it ends are purely academic. Let him end it however he sees fit. All that matters is that it ENDS. 1
experiencethedevine Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah.....why the need for privacy? I think ALL FOUR OF YOU should meet in a public place, like a restaurant, where ALL FOUR OF YOU get to ask questions and observe reactions and try or get closure. That would be the grown up thing to do, it would be respectful to the spouses, no more secrets, no he said, she said, no bubble without consequences.... THAT should be the ONLY offer on the table, IMO....Four people facing and owning the consequences like adults. Exactly. There have obviously been enough 'secrets and privacy'. That is how the OP has found herself here. Never mind the bleeting of the spouse who wants to 'say goodbye nicely' on his own terms?? I don't think so. Most inappropriate. If you don't want to say it with me in the same room, then on your way ship mate! 3
katielee Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 The way I see it, the only important factor is that it does END. The mechanics of how it ends are purely academic. . wrong. It has the potential to deeply abuse and disrespect the BS even more. NC, none, zip or you are done. 4
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 wrong. It has the potential to deeply abuse and disrespect the BS even more. NC, none, zip or you are done. Or everyone at the same table, BS and APs.
rumbleseat Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 That's how you see it. And it may or may not work. But, my post said nothing about supporting the A. I just said, either he is over it or he is not. Whatever she chooses to do in this situation will have little bearing on the outcome in the long run. I'm sure she would prefer to believe everything is in her control, if she just makes the right chose. Personally, I don't believe that is the reality. Sorry, we just disagree. JMO A big part of a successful reconciliation is for both spouses to learn what the boundaries are both for their own actions and what behaviour they will or will not tolerate in their spouse. Learning to find one's voice is really important, as is learning to say when something is going on that makes you uncomfortable. Again, she has every right to voice her opinion. He has every right to choose whether or not to act upon it. If he chooses not to, then they both need to sort outshine ere they will go from there. 1
janedoe67 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I would allow him to have his final goodbye how ever he wants to handle it. You can demand he doesn't, but if he decides it is something he needs to do, he may just do it anyway. He is an adult here, he is not your child. You are not his mother. If his relationship with you is going to survive, it will. This isn't going to be the deciding factor - unless you can't handle. If you can't handle it, tell him that and let him decide what he wants to do. JMO IMO as a FWS this is an extremely bad idea. What does "however he wants to handle it" mean? One last sentimental roll in the hay? Oh....no HE needs to respect YOU enough to end all contact in a letter that YOU approve and you WATCH him send. He just torpedoed your marriage; he does not get to decide how to "say his last romantic goodbyes." 5
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