Dealing with Repeated Financial Infidelity

[lostsock]

I am dealing with financial infidelity and I just have no idea what to do next and how to deal with it. This situation has developed over time, this actually is not the first time that my wife and I have dealt with this problem. First I will provide a little history.

 

My wife and I have always had mostly separate finances. She needs to work in order to support her family and send them money. Due to this we had fights early on and we settled on just not combining our finances and she did her thing and I did mine. Unfortunately for me the burden of actually taking care of our expenses as a family have all pretty much fallen on me with her only taking care of the occasional meal or some groceries. I pay for the our food, the cars, cable/internet, the insurance, I basically am the sole earner for our family. So basically she works to pay for her family and it just becomes a tax burden to me because they can not be counted as dependents but it increases our overall taxable income. About 6 years ago I began to notice that she was getting more and more bills that I thought she should be getting. I stared opening some of these bills and seeing large balances for things. Over the course of a month I made sure I was the one to get to the mail everyday and I collected all the bills and found that she was about quite a bit in debt, almost $15,000.00. I confronted her, we had a huge argument and then a long talk about it all and I decided I did not want to give up on our marriage over it. She agreed to cut up her credit cards and sell some stuff and I agreed to take out a loan in my name since my credit was excellent and pay off her bills. The agreement was that she pay me for part of it, a percentage that she could afford on her smaller income and I would pay the rest. During the five following years we had this loan I think she may have paid her share for 6 or 8 months worth. Most of the time I paid the bill in full. She would give me a story about how she needed enough money to send to her family and that she did not have enough to pay for the bill. All this despite the fact that she promised me when I took out the loan that she would and could help me pay it. This bothered me but she seemed to be doing good about not spending things, as far as I knew her credit cards had been shredded and stuff no longer seemed to be arriving from different online vendors at our door so I assumed she was no longer over spending.

 

About 4 years into us paying this loan off we had decided to buy a small condo. This was at the low point in the housing market so things were cheap and we wanted to snap up a property before things started to go up again. During this process of course they ran a credit check on both my wife and I. I come to find out that my wife has about $7,500 in debt according to the credit report. The person doing the credit check says that I can get a loan for the house by myself but my wife will actually hurt me when applying for the loan. Needless to say I go nuts. I called her and told her we are through, its over I am done with this. I was still in the middle of paying for her debts when she had already racked up a ton of debt again. Well after some talking, she somehow convinced me that she was going to take care of this all on her own and deal with it. She promised I would not have to help or handle it this time. I did not want to end our marriage but all my trust was shattered, but at the same time I loved her and did not want to break up. I also firmly believe in trying to make a marriage work if possible.

 

I know I am partially at fault for what has happened since then. See the problem is that emotionally I was done dealing with this issue. In my heart I decided that if this was not done then I was done. I emotionally detached myself from this issue and just gave up. The problem is I should have been on her like a hawk, but I knew that if I had to do that I would go insane and we would fight all the time and I really just did not even want to believe this was happening again. So I ignored the problem and took her or pretended to take her at her word and let her “handle it” on her own.

 

Fast forward to now. I am finding out that she is in debt again. I don’t know how far yet. I think some of her bills come to her only electronically now so I can not be sure. My guess is she is somewhere between $10,000-$15,000 in debt. I had been suspicious for a while but she always talks about how she has been able to save money and been doing good. She talks about saving for a vacation for her mother to visit. Lately I have intercepted a few bills and late notices. Some of them stated a balance, others only a minimum payment. My guess about her debt is based on what I know so far. I am preparing to confront her, and I just feel like I almost want to pretend it is not true. I know I can not avoid confronting this I just feel lost right now and I so do not want to have to deal with this. I do not think I can handle another 5 or more years of paying off her debt, even if she finally stops overspending. I also do not feel like I have the energy or desire to watch every single bill and dollar that she spends just to make sure she this never happens again. I feel like every single month we pay off a loan for her debt I will resent her with ever debit from our account to pay off her repeated mistakes. I feel like how can this woman possibly care about me, after I took out a loan for her and paid it off with my own money and she just gets right into the same mess, and lets me pay for all of our expenses and over spends. I really think this is the end of our marriage because I just can not even begin to imagine how I can let this go and no resent her for many years to come, and I just do not want to live like that.

 

I am not really asking for advice, I am sure many will have an opinion. I just feel like I need to share anonymously because everyone close in my life that I could share this with is close to both of us and I just do not want this to get out until I am ready to deal with it, but I need to tell someone.

 

Thanks for listening.

[jnel921]

Marriage is a partnership. Part of the partnership is sharing finances. However how you manage that is very important.

 

A lot of marriages end because of this. It is a stressful issue. I can understand why you are upset.

 

The first thing I noticed in your post that early in your marriage you both decided that she do her thing and you do yours financially because you didn't care for her giving money to her family. Big mistake! I know how frustrating it is to know that your wife's family is dependent on her financially.

This is the case in many relationships.

 

I think you needed to pool your money together and create a budget. A budget that incorporates every bill you have, family savings, miscellaneous items and her gift to her family.

 

With a budget you can better handle and control the money that comes into your home. You can even give yourselves a weekly allowance. With this money you can choose to save on your own separate bank account. She can save or spend from that available cash instead of charging.

 

When I met my current H his financial status was not the best. Working in finance I was able to help him pay off his debts and his bills? However there was a time just like your wife where I found out my H got a credit card and maxed it out in 2 months! I was furious. He didn't know how he would pay it back. Again we went back to the budget drawing board. I had to make him understand that this new debt was not helping our credit nor our financial situation. He cut up the card and starting paying it off. He also has to send his mother money every month. I understand the frustrations with this as well. We have teenage kids we need to put through college.

 

But budgeting our money together we are able to pay these things without getting into the fight about whose money is paying what and we both have excellent credit.

 

In our household the finances it is exactly that, ours and shared.

[Radu]

Your problem is not her financial infidelity [which is extensive and soul crushing] but what caused it at the start of it.

 

And that's the fact that you did not marry your wife, but her family's puppet, and even at the risk of her own marriage she has not managed to break free of that situation.

 

You matter less than her family ... that's what it boils down to.

[Grumpybutfun]

All of this should have been talked about and negotiated prior to marriage, but since it wasn't...you need a plan. First sit down with her and tell her that if this is to be a real partnership and marriage, all finances will be pooled and expenses will be tackled together. Then decide on an allotted monthly gift that will be sent to her family. You have to let her know that you two will be retiring soon and children may come so you need to take care of your family first. IRAs, college funds, emergency account for five months of living in case you lose your jobs or get hurt needs to be saved, and all bills must be paid off in full so you do not accrue finance charges. If she doesn't agree or cannot do this with you, then you are living with someone who cares little for your marriage or your future. Time to figure out if you can accept that she is a financial drain and you are being take advantage of.

Good luck,

Grumps

Edited February 20, 2014 by Grumpybutfun

[lostsock]

Thank you jnel921, Radu, Grumpybutfun for your comments and advice.

 

I agree that the real issue that needs to be fixed is what led up to the problem and we both share responsibility in those issues.

 

jnel921 - In response to your comment about my not liking her sending money to her family. We actually fought about it because I felt that sometimes her family was taking advantage of the situation, but I fully supported her actually sending money. The problem was that I felt sometimes she needed to tell them there was a limit to that and they needed to treat it as a fixed income, but they would often spend the money unwisely or give it to a friend to help them and then ask her for additional funds. It was things like that which led to the arguments that we had.

 

I also actually wanted to join our finances soon after she got a job and started sending money home but it was she that was reluctant to do so. She said she wanted to feel like she was taking care of her family and not imposing a burden on us, and she also wanted to feel free to spend the extra money she earned(This part bothered me because that meant I got to pay for all of our expenses and might be left with nothing spare for myself but anything spare she had was hers and not ours).

 

Grumpybutfun - We did discuss some of this prior to marriage. It wasn't yet a reality at the time that we would need to help her family out. It was only until her father "retired" from his job. Retirement in her culture just means you stop working and relying on your children to take care of you. Once this happened and she needed to send some money home we agreed she would start looking for a job. I preferred that when this happened we would get a joint account and pay the bills from there but she resisted this. It is my fault for not insisting that if she was going to have a job and pay for her family that we pool our resources and manage it together.

 

The big problem for me now moving forward is trust. I realize that I can try to force her to merge her finances with mine, and she may or may not be open to that. If she is not open to it then I do not see how we have any future. If she is there is still the trust issue. Through this I have learned that she will do what she wants to do, and when she starts to get caught doing something she knows you do not like, she simply lies about it. During this process the first time as I started to figure things out I asked her many questions and she had a lie for everything. Since then she makes comments about things like saving for her family to come visit, all things that can not possibly be true considering how much debt she is in. Also there are other areas in our life that she is being untruthful and just basically living a lie that I am also discovering but it is not as serious as this situation.

[salparadise]

Oh man, does this ever sound familiar. I paid off my ex's credit cards several times with the agreement that she would cut them up and cancel the accounts. She didn't cancel the accounts and continued to run them up. I had a plan that would've put us in nice shape to retire but she simply could not quit. The last time I refused to pay and she set up a home equity loan. I should've refused to sign. I set up accounts for us to pay for our daughter's college in advance and she defaulted. That was pretty much the end of the marriage, although we didn't divorce for a few more years.

 

This is not a simple matter of changing a behavior, it's a serious dysfunction akin to an eating disorder. I didn't quite get that at the time. Add lying and distrust to the formula and it's a disaster in the making.

 

My advice would be to bring it to a head sooner rather than later. The longer you wait the more it will cost you, and if the marriage is going to implode (as it sounds like is well underway) the sooner you get it done the less of your life consumed in the dysfunction. Unfortunately, you'll end up being responsible for half of her debt as it will be considered marital debt even though it's in her name only. If you decide to try and save the marriage, the sooner you deal with it the better the chance. The only thing that doesn't make any sense is letting it continue a day longer now that you're seeing it for what it is. I wish I had stood my ground many years before. Good luck to you-

[amaysngrace]

Can't you file married but separately?

 

You should have been doing that ever since you took out the first loan to pay down her debt IMO.

[Tayken]

Money is one of the top reasons why couples split up....it has been said time and time again.

 

There are shoes here with regards to this

 

1. Til debt do us part

2. Money morons

 

Google them

[lostsock]

Can't you file married but separately?

 

You should have been doing that ever since you took out the first loan to pay down her debt IMO.

 

We could file our taxes married but separately but since she makes far less than I do I would still pay more taxes that way that I am now.

[amaysngrace]

We could file our taxes married but separately but since she makes far less than I do I would still pay more taxes that way that I am now.

 

Have you tried doing it both ways? Sometimes it's a big difference but if it's not that huge then it might be worth your while to separate your finances completely. Especially if she's shipping most of her earnings back home.

 

What kind of loan did you take to pay off her debt before?

 

You have to be really careful. She could be forging your signature for all you know. Have you seen your credit report lately?

 

Ugh...the one thing that really bothers me is paying interest. I'd be so pissed off if I were you...

[bubbaganoosh]

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh but she's ran her debt up three times already with the promise to stop and 4 years ago she was 7500 in the hole and now 10 to 15 grand in the hole.

 

How many times are you going to bale her out? Honestly between her and her family their sucking you dry. It's not fair that you shoulder the burden and she continues to run the debt up.

 

Friend you got to set her down and tell her that her family has to help themselves too and your tired of paying her debts off. Let her know that if she sends money to the family then it has to be a certain amount and that is it and she has to pay off what she ran up.

 

If she gets pissed, all you have to tell her is your already bailed her out and if she can't help, then tell her to go back to her family and take her debts with her.

 

Man whatever you do, don't combine your finances with her and you better lay down the new rules real quick or you'll be the one living from hand to mouth.

[Radu]

I also actually wanted to join our finances soon after she got a job and started sending money home but it was she that was reluctant to do so. She said she wanted to feel like she was taking care of her family and not imposing a burden on us, and she also wanted to feel free to spend the extra money she earned(This part bothered me because that meant I got to pay for all of our expenses and might be left with nothing spare for myself but anything spare she had was hers and not ours).

 

No offense, but this was a big red flag, but it's one that most ppl dismiss too.

 

When i was growing up there were re-runs of Married with children [the Bundy family known here], and in one of the early episodes Peggy gets a job in a department store.

After she starts earning, Al asks her to contribute to the kids, the household, etc ...

Because of her reaction he says something like 'how come that my paycheck is our money, but your paycheck is your money ?'.

 

Over the next couple of yrs i remembered this, and started seeing it more vividly around me, in certain couples.

This is basically what her reaction translated in.

And this means selfishness.

 

I think you know what you have to do, as i doubt you'll change her anytime soon.

You are already supporting a household for at least 2 [you did not mention kids], and her habits.

I think you can do better alone.

[lostsock]

Have you tried doing it both ways? Sometimes it's a big difference but if it's not that huge then it might be worth your while to separate your finances completely. Especially if she's shipping most of her earnings back home.

 

What kind of loan did you take to pay off her debt before?

 

You have to be really careful. She could be forging your signature for all you know. Have you seen your credit report lately?

 

Ugh...the one thing that really bothers me is paying interest. I'd be so pissed off if I were you...

 

A couple years ago I tried doing it both ways to see and at the time it was the difference between getting some money back, I think like 500-750 and paying some money. I chose to get money back and file jointly at the time. I haven't done the taxes for this year yet but I will try and see what it looks like both ways.

 

The kind of loan I took out was a personal loan. My credit was good and the interest was not too bad. I understand how you feel I hate paying interest as well.

 

I have looked at my own credit, I take advantage of the free reports every year and my credit is still very good and clean thankfully.

 

 

No offense, but this was a big red flag, but it's one that most ppl dismiss too.

 

When i was growing up there were re-runs of Married with children [the Bundy family known here], and in one of the early episodes Peggy gets a job in a department store.

After she starts earning, Al asks her to contribute to the kids, the household, etc ...

Because of her reaction he says something like 'how come that my paycheck is our money, but your paycheck is your money ?'.

 

Over the next couple of yrs i remembered this, and started seeing it more vividly around me, in certain couples.

This is basically what her reaction translated in.

And this means selfishness.

 

I think you know what you have to do, as i doubt you'll change her anytime soon.

You are already supporting a household for at least 2 [you did not mention kids], and her habits.

I think you can do better alone.

 

Yes sadly it is a sign of selfishness. I know we are all prone to it at times but she has gone overboard and made it pretty clear who she cares about most by her actions. It not just money, pretty much in most aspects of our life I always put in more than she does. It could be responsibilities around the house, or helping our friends out when they need it, or even walking the dogs. We have had dogs for years and I have taken those dogs out for about 95% of the walks they go on every day, and if it were not for me those dogs would never see the dog park. Unfortunately its a pattern. I do not claim to be perfect and I have my share of flaws, but a marriage should be about Trust, Love, and respect for one another. She has lost my trust, because of it I am not sure if she truly loves me, and she does not treat me like she has respect for me. Even with all that though I really do not want to see it end, but one things for sure, changes are going to be made. We will just have to see how drastic those changes are.

[amaysngrace]

I'm glad your credit hasn't been affected by her carelessness.

 

It may benefit you to speak with an accountant and let them work some magic for you. There's a lot of ways to get around things that they have knowledge in that you and I are clueless about.

 

If I were you I'd try to keep everything separate from her because you never know what tomorrow will bring. You should cover your ass and look out for yourself and fight selfish with selfish.

 

Think of it this way...you're like the dad in the relationship and she is like the child. Now you're being forced to have a more fatherly role due to her being childish.

 

Sometimes when a husband acts like a father the wife will seek a boyfriend. Not saying that will happen but you just never know.

 

It's terrible that she has thrown this dynamic into your marriage. Life's not so fun when only one of you is the grown-up

 

:/

[salparadise]

Has anyone mentioned a postnuptial agreement? If you're going to try and hold it together, you might alleviate some of the tension by doing one. What I'm thinking is an agreement that in the event of a divorce, she is solely responsible for her debt, the money she sends to her family, and a share of the household expenses proportionate to your incomes. This way if things go south down the line you won't have to give up half of the assets and take on half of the debt. I'm sure it will piss her off but given the circumstances I think it would be fair.

[yellowmaverick]

Sounds like she needs to see a credit counselor. i know it's harsh, but you have to stop enabling her by paying off her debt.

 

From day one, we set a budget and live according to the budget. We have (or had) an agreement that we would talk about spending for any items that exceeded a certain thresshold. The problem for you is that she has repeatedly broken your trust. If you have to "babysit" her bank account, this may create resentment on both your part and her part, but I don't see another viable alternative (short of divorce) until she becomes trustworthy. You can't keep paying off her debt - this won't stop her problem of excessive spending and untruthfulness.

[Tayken]

Remember....

 

 

[hasaquestion]

Has anyone mentioned a postnuptial agreement? If you're going to try and hold it together, you might alleviate some of the tension by doing one. What I'm thinking is an agreement that in the event of a divorce, she is solely responsible for her debt, the money she sends to her family, and a share of the household expenses proportionate to your incomes. This way if things go south down the line you won't have to give up half of the assets and take on half of the debt. I'm sure it will piss her off but given the circumstances I think it would be fair.

 

In theory this is a great idea. In practice, OP's wife would probably divorce him sooner than agree to that.

[FitChick]

Tell her to get a part time job and all of that money goes to pay off her credit cards. Then cut them up.

[lostsock]

I'm glad your credit hasn't been affected by her carelessness.

 

It may benefit you to speak with an accountant and let them work some magic for you.

 

If I were you I'd try to keep everything separate from her because you never know what tomorrow will bring. You should cover your ass and look out for yourself and fight selfish with selfish.

 

:/

 

I haven't spoken with an accountant but I am getting some advice from a lawyer. It sounds like if things do end in divorce the fact that we have kept our finances fairly separate up till now will protect me to some extent.

 

Has anyone mentioned a postnuptial agreement?

 

No I had't heard a postnup before. I will have to look into that. It sounds like a pretty good idea, but like you said I have a feeling she might not go for it, but if she doesn't that is her choice and she can walk because I don't think I would stick around without some serious protections to cover my butt at this point.

 

Sounds like she needs to see a credit counselor. i know it's harsh, but you have to stop enabling her by paying off her debt.

 

No its not harsh and your right. She needs counseling. I think she needs credit counseling and maybe other kinds of counseling as well.

 

In theory this is a great idea. In practice, OP's wife would probably divorce him sooner than agree to that.

Agreed, but still a good idea, and maybe what is needed.

 

Tell her to get a part time job and all of that money goes to pay off her credit cards. Then cut them up.

She already has one job, but another couldn't hurt. She should have to work to pay this all off, not me this time. Yes the cards must be cut up and the accounts canceled this time. Last time we cut them but she didn't cancel them.