Author razzmazz Posted February 20, 2014 Author Posted February 20, 2014 OP, welcome to LS You mentioned that the first 4-5 years of your M you 'never cheated'. Can you expand on that statement? Would you state that infidelity didn't interest you during that period?...or, did it interest you and you chose to not participate? ... or, ??? How would you characterize the marital foundation, from prior to getting married to when you engaged in your first affair? Do you think the foundation was solid? Worked as a team? Resolved disagreements well? Etc, etc. As you apparently have had two workplace affairs, and one apparently is continuing, how do you feel about making a job change to 'cut the cord' from the current dynamic, as part of your commitment to change from being a 'serial cheater'? If there is a monetary/benefit hit, how do you balance that against your current path in life? Generally, and especially in cases of serial infidelity, no contact (NC) is elemental to 'breaking the cycle'. One of you has to go. Now, if you own the place you can fire the worker and take that financial/business hit. If you don't, get transferred or move to another job. As a fMM, we worked responsibility during the MC process. What's your responsibility to your spouse and family? To yourself? We also worked the process of putting ourselves in each other's 'shoes'. Imagine your wife posting this thread, verbatim. How would you feel about that? Then, respecting those feelings, hold the mirror up and take a good look. That's reality. Good luck. Never cheated = never felt the need really - was in love and enjoyed everything with her. I should mention that in childhood i was a weak boy - girls despised me - never had girl friends. Grew up in a poor household. But as i matured - worked and studied hard - achieved some success - changed my appearance - became more confident and began to get female attention - something i never had before. Our marriage foundation even now is good - we resolve issues together. We respect each others strengths and opinions a lot. Leaving company is not an option - i am an expat based in Europe and a change would mean leaving the country which i am not open to - nor is my wife. One more point i would like to vent about is i suffer from delusional jeaousy - so go mad thinking that the OW is also sleeping with other men - like my best friend at work for example. So spend time tracking her down at all times - checking her mails and phone records. If my wife were to be in my position - i would ask for a divorce - i agree - the loss of ego and feeling of rejection would be too much for me to handle.
Author razzmazz Posted February 20, 2014 Author Posted February 20, 2014 When I was under the spell of limerace, I got 3 certifications, got a nice promotion, lost 30 pounds, ended bad relationships with family members, stopped being angry all the time and still had extra energy to raise the kids. I had never felt so much energy or positivity ever. If the drug companies could bottle limerace in a pill format, the world would be a happier place. After limerace was gone from my life, I tried to keep the positivity up but once limerace is gone, it's gone. Now, I'm lonely again, in job I despise, bored and fat again. Just in a holding pattern until change finds me again. But on a good note, I'm not hiding anything, lying, being deceitful or untrustworthy. I don't have to be ashamed of any bad behavior or worried about getting caught. It's a boring life but much easier. If you are tired of cheating, just quit doing it. That all it takes. Thanks for the empathy - i can so relate to what your saying. Life seems so much better when your in this state. But this can last forever - I understand that.
carhill Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Never cheated = never felt the need really - was in love and enjoyed everything with her. Matching this up with information in your OP indicates to me that a marked life change, perhaps related to the loss of the two children you related, affected your, and your wife's, feelings surrounding your M and resolution was unsatisfactory. In MC, our psychologist related that life's challenges can bond a couple together or tear them apart. Rarely are the dynamics static; something invariably changes. Leaving company is not an option - i am an expat based in Europe and a change would mean leaving the country which i am not open to - nor is my wife. Inter-company/site transfer? Work arrangements which limit mandatory contact? Etc, etc. What are you willing to do to enforce NC? Is the lady's partner aware of your contact? Could you enlist her help in enforcing NC? If so, how? If not, why not? One more point i would like to vent about is i suffer from delusional jealousy This would be a good point to work with an IC; IMO it probably goes back to your young years during peer integration and being shunned by women. If my wife were to be in my position - i would ask for a divorce - i agree - the loss of ego and feeling of rejection would be too much for me to handle. This is also worth exploring with an IC; tasking them to help with tools to overcome the fear which drives this dichotomy. IMO, at its base, it's fear. Identify the fear; work the fear. This all presumes you want to move forward. As a disclaimer, I'm a fMM (not multiple like yourself), did voluntarily disclose, did go through MC and did divorce. What you're seeing in my posts is very similar to the work we did in MC with a psychologist. You said you are sick of being a serial cheater. Treatment starts with your desire to be treated and recover. Up to you! Our marriage foundation even now is good - we resolve issues together. We respect each others strengths and opinions a lot. That's a positive sign. Do you want to rebuild your marriage to a healthy state where you're working as a team and making love as you did in the past? 1
janedoe67 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 I can't get a handle on how you really feel about all this. How do you REALLY feel about repeatedly cheating on your wife? Whose responsibility do you think your A's are? Do you believe you had a choice? Do you ever plan to tell your wife the truth? What do you expect your life to be? These are a few questions that - if you answer them honestly - will give you some clues about where you really are.
Owl Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 My only bit of advice for you... If you go on that date tonight with OW, don't TRY to break it off...DO break it off. Or don't go. First step is ending that relationship. If you can't do that, you're not doing anything. 3
darkmoon Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 How is asking him to tell his wife the truth hurting his feelings? I guess if he runs and gets her a gym membership, his problems will be solved. I only hope he doesn't bring STD's home as well. She has a right to know, and I hope she finds out. I am talking about hurting her feelings
BeholdtheMan Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I fall in love too easily That's a really sugar-coated way of saying "I lack self-control as a man, and I don't have a strong sense of morality. I just do things that make my body feel good" am aware that there will be some uncharitable insults coming my way. Maybe...but you can't say you don't deserve them can you?
Author razzmazz Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 i finally did not make the date with the OW last night. However, we spent the entire night texting each other. (my wife is travelling and her partner was asleep). Essentially our conversations are always the same - complaints about our primary relationships, realisations that what we are sharing is a dream and temporary. I did tell her my thoughts that i feel i shld be the one to end it - because i feel my marriage has actually less fundamental issues than hers. (her partner is a real psycho - lot of verbal abuse and lack of warmth / respect for her). She seemed ok with the idea - but guess only in words because the conv went on to flirting and sex talk... meanwhile wife messaged today being romantic obv i was too drained from the marathon chat last nite to reciprocate - though i tried. Today i will end with the OW - havent messaged her since morning. This weekend is going to be my first steps in reconnecting with my wife. Will take her out for dinner..watch movies at home...do all she likes...am confident all will end well... 1
Author razzmazz Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 I can't get a handle on how you really feel about all this. How do you REALLY feel about repeatedly cheating on your wife? Whose responsibility do you think your A's are? Do you believe you had a choice? Do you ever plan to tell your wife the truth? What do you expect your life to be? These are a few questions that - if you answer them honestly - will give you some clues about where you really are. 1. At one level, I feel my ability to cheat on my wife with attractive women reflects my upward mobility in terms of physical apperance and influence at work. Ofc these A's are my responsibilty. I did have a choice and still do. 2. No i dont plan to tell her the truth. She will feel hurt and rejected and dont think she deserves to go through that feeling. 3. What i expect from life - This is the hard one to awnser. I do understand that this lifestyle cannot continue forever. i feel i will only be happy when i am out of all this and in strong and stable monogamous relationship. I am not sure if that can really be my wife - but i do want to try. If it does not work - then will need to move on. This is what i want - something clear and stable - no more hiding - no more games. 1
TwoWaters Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Do you feel like you are more honest with your other women than with your wife? I mean, in terms of who you are and what you want?
Trimmer Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Today i will end with the OW - havent messaged her since morning. This weekend is going to be my first steps in reconnecting with my wife. Will take her out for dinner..watch movies at home...do all she likes...am confident all will end well... The real "first step" is ending it - for sure, for real, forever - with any and all Other Women. Be sure you do that immediately, before you credit yourself with making any "first steps" with your wife. 1
Author razzmazz Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 Do you feel like you are more honest with your other women than with your wife? I mean, in terms of who you are and what you want? Yes I am more honest with the Other Women - part of the reason why i remain attached - no secrets. However, with my wife - she is not aware of a completely parallel life of mine - which has its own highs and lows - make ups and break ups. This does make it difficult for me to connect emotionally with her as she cannot relate to what is running on my mind / heart.
janedoe67 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 1. At one level, I feel my ability to cheat on my wife with attractive women reflects my upward mobility in terms of physical apperance and influence at work. Ofc these A's are my responsibilty. I did have a choice and still do. 2. No i dont plan to tell her the truth. She will feel hurt and rejected and dont think she deserves to go through that feeling. 3. What i expect from life - This is the hard one to awnser. I do understand that this lifestyle cannot continue forever. i feel i will only be happy when i am out of all this and in strong and stable monogamous relationship. I am not sure if that can really be my wife - but i do want to try. If it does not work - then will need to move on. This is what i want - something clear and stable - no more hiding - no more games. So.... Based on what you wrote here, you see your A's as proof that you are "upwardly mobile" and attractive, you know you can't do it forever. Your wife doesn't deserve your unfaithfulness but she also doesn't deserve the truth, and you're willing to give her a shot at being the woman you can love. I see zero remorse or humility or pain over the pain you cause the woman to whom you vowed faithfulness. Do you feel any of that?
waterwoman Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 i finally did not make the date with the OW last night. However, we spent the entire night texting each other. (my wife is travelling and her partner was asleep). Essentially our conversations are always the same - complaints about our primary relationships, realisations that what we are sharing is a dream and temporary. I did tell her my thoughts that i feel i shld be the one to end it - because i feel my marriage has actually less fundamental issues than hers. (her partner is a real psycho - lot of verbal abuse and lack of warmth / respect for her). She seemed ok with the idea - but guess only in words because the conv went on to flirting and sex talk... meanwhile wife messaged today being romantic obv i was too drained from the marathon chat last nite to reciprocate - though i tried. Today i will end with the OW - havent messaged her since morning. This weekend is going to be my first steps in reconnecting with my wife. Will take her out for dinner..watch movies at home...do all she likes...am confident all will end well... This is the first time you have suggested there is something 'wrong' with your marriage. Or that you and your wife are incompatible. Why is that? If it seemed that all this incompatibility stemmed from the loss of your babies and not just the passing of time and growing apart there is a good chance to reverse it with MC and IC for both of you. Good luck x
darkmoon Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) razzmazz - stay with her or she might bolt - your wife might meet a guy she clicks with, just by chance, not in the moods that I suspect that she gets in, no, just on a sunny when the whole world is happy, everybody single looks for partners, I am 60, but still get hit on, if you split she will get her share, I think, you might see the woman you once fell in love with, all but forgotten atmo Edited February 21, 2014 by darkmoon
Author razzmazz Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 Last evening i landed up going out with the OW again. We landed up having sex in the car. I wanted it - wanted to know that i could still seduce her...want my break up with her to be me having her wanting more but me deciding to end...i will end it on monday morning - have decided. Have bought my wifes favourite wine - this evening we will drink wine and watch a movie at home - perhaps lead to something?
janedoe67 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 So where ARE all those outraged posters who flock to a WW's thread to tell her how awful she is???? I am stunned 2
compulsivedancer Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Last evening i landed up going out with the OW again. We landed up having sex in the car. I wanted it - wanted to know that i could still seduce her...want my break up with her to be me having her wanting more but me deciding to end...i will end it on monday morning - have decided. Have bought my wifes favourite wine - this evening we will drink wine and watch a movie at home - perhaps lead to something? That's not going to work. You can't just hop back into bed with her, then say I'll end it later. You have to ACT. If you really want out, you can't keep waiting to get out. You have to make it happen. A few posts ago, you talked about sexting with your OW. Then your BS got home and you were too tired to be affectionate with her. This is a perfect example of how your extra relationships rob your primary relationship of the things you should be sharing with your wife. You are devoting your energies where they don't belong, and diverting resources from the place they DO belong. 1
FnlyFrei Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Doesn't seem like you care for or about anyone else but yourself really. I don't know why you are even asking for advice. You don't care. Obviously.
TwoWaters Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 1. At one level, I feel my ability to cheat on my wife with attractive women reflects my upward mobility in terms of physical apperance and influence at work. Ofc these A's are my responsibilty. I did have a choice and still do. 2. No i dont plan to tell her the truth. She will feel hurt and rejected and dont think she deserves to go through that feeling. 3. What i expect from life - This is the hard one to awnser. I do understand that this lifestyle cannot continue forever. i feel i will only be happy when i am out of all this and in strong and stable monogamous relationship. I am not sure if that can really be my wife - but i do want to try. If it does not work - then will need to move on. This is what i want - something clear and stable - no more hiding - no more games. Serial cheater here. Not within relationships, but have moved from one to another this way. All meaningful. I'm struggling with me being a better person and understand why I do this. I can't relate to point 1, still confused about point 2 for me, and point 3 I'm halfway there. Trying to choose. Hang in there..
Trimmer Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Last evening i landed up going out with the OW again. We landed up having sex in the car. I wanted it - wanted to know that i could still seduce her...want my break up with her to be me having her wanting more but me deciding to end...i will end it on monday morning - have decided. Ha! You've decided.... No, what you did, instead of quitting, was to smoke "one last cigarette", so you could have the feeling of holding it between your fingers and smell the smoke curling up, and the heat of hte end as you took a drag. You put off quitting because, hey, it's just one last one, right. One last one never hurts, right? I wonder how long you will convince yourself that you can put off "the decision", so that you can continue to have "one last one." Have bought my wifes favourite wine - this evening we will drink wine and watch a movie at home - perhaps lead to something? Ick, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. On behalf of your wife - and I'm stating this more carefully than is my instinct, in order to try to keep it within the LS community guidelines to comment on behavior, not denigrate the poster - that is scumbag behavior. 2
Author razzmazz Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 Ha! You've decided.... No, what you did, instead of quitting, was to smoke "one last cigarette", so you could have the feeling of holding it between your fingers and smell the smoke curling up, and the heat of hte end as you took a drag. You put off quitting because, hey, it's just one last one, right. One last one never hurts, right? I wonder how long you will convince yourself that you can put off "the decision", so that you can continue to have "one last one." Ick, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. On behalf of your wife - and I'm stating this more carefully than is my instinct, in order to try to keep it within the LS community guidelines to comment on behavior, not denigrate the poster - that is scumbag behavior. I think you got it wrong - perhaps my post was not clear - I meant will drink the wine and watch the movie with my wife and not the OW. Anyways yesterday was a great day - me and my wife were in each others arms most of the day. We are looking to buy a house so spent time online together browsnig through classifieds..and hugging at same time. And ofcourse the wine did help At night we hugged and slept with me repeating i love you several times..nothing happened --but am conifdent with time the sexual intimacy will return. The OW did mesage me in the evening yesterday - but i am yet to reply.
whichwayisup Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Originally Posted by razzmazz View Post Last evening i landed up going out with the OW again. We landed up having sex in the car. I wanted it - wanted to know that i could still seduce her...want my break up with her to be me having her wanting more but me deciding to end...i will end it on monday morning - have decided. The OW did mesage me in the evening yesterday - but i am yet to reply. Talk about treating your OW like a piece of meat. Anyway, just know how you end it with her like how you've described, and if she is very into you, you might have an overly emotional (rightfully so as NOBODY wants to be treated like crap and feel used) exOW freaking out on you and possibly telling you wife about the affair you've been having with her. What you put out there can come back and bite you real hard later on. Keep that in mind when you end it with her wanting more. That's just cruel to do to her! And, what you're doing to your wife? Disgusting. Screwing your OW one night and then the next all lovey dovey with your wife like you've done nothing wrong. THAT will come back and bite you as well ... When the truth of your affair comes out. When one gets pushed past their emotional limit, they can do and say things they normally wouldn't do! Just sayin.
Trimmer Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I think you got it wrong - perhaps my post was not clear - I meant will drink the wine and watch the movie with my wife and not the OW. No, your post was quite clear enough, and I understood exactly what you meant. What made me sick was that you went out with your OW, to prove to yourself that you could seduce here, and manipulate her into a position where you could leave her on your terms, in a way that will feed your ego, and just 24 hours later - and still not having broken it off with your OW - you are planning to get romantic with your wife, and hoping "something" will happen. Oh, there - having had to explain that, it's making me woozy again. Have you no guilt, no remorse - no shame?
Author razzmazz Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 I do understand the reactions - because in plain reading this seems so diabolical. But this is how we all think and act - just i have the balls to say it the way it is. All relationships are about ego more than anything else. Who wants to be the guy whose girl dumped him leaving him with all kinds of self doubt and feeling of rejection. As to the relationship with my wife - I have always loved her - never made her feel unloved for or uncared for. Whenever i have given her my word to go somewhere or do something for her - i have kept my word come what may. No distraction works when it is something she needs - that has always been my priority. Life is far more complicated than most of you want to acknowledge over here. For example : as to my treatment of the OW - what makes all of you so sure she is not using me for validation and to keep her steady bf on his toes. Its a matter of time whe will move on from me - what do you expect i wait for that to happen?
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