it's (really and truly) over

[Waverly]

Sorry I was not there for you this weekend- we have a ski house we go to every weekend and I try to stay away from LS there-

 

So- in case you still need a pep talk here goes-

Sounds like you are kind of wallowing in this which is not good for you- look at yourself and who you really are- you are someone that has risen far enough in your field that you are chosen to go to a conference, you have things going on professionally and people admire who you are-you have a knowledge and skill set valued by others-concentrate on that for a bit and remember-you are so much more than someone broken by a dead end relationship- surround yourself with people and activities that multiply not subtract from your life-get out of the "victim" rut and move forward bit by bit-whatever memories you are holding on to are not as rosy as you are making them out to be, they are a part of what eats you alive so see them for that-

 

Be good to you and take care-

 

Thanks. I was totally wallowing. I don't know why, but I do. I appreciate the pep talk a lot though. I was dreading the trip (and it was awful), but the parts where I was busy did give me a little confidence boost.

 

And now I'm back home. I said a while ago that once I was back, I wanted to start getting through this. I'm still intermittently talking to my xAP, but very very very minimally. I know that has to stop. Even though it's all but stopped, even the little bit is just excruciating. I'm trying to plan a trip for the spring. Nothing major, but the researching and planning is a little bit of a distraction.

[Waverly]

I can tell you. My friend used to meet me at my work for coffee sometimes and we would go sit in a lounge and talk. I haven't been able to go into that coffee shop or that lounge for months. Once i was having a good week & went & sat where we sat and I thought it was to find peace & strength in moving forward but it only brought up old memories & raw pain.

For u if you do, maybe write a goodbye letter there as a ceremonial type closure & either burn or tear it up there. But overall I say the trip kept u busy & occupied so maybe avoid it & it will start to become less "your" place & rather just a place as your emotions seem to be doing fairly okay unless I am reading you wrong.

 

I don'tthink i am ready for ffriendship either. No initiating on my part at all.

 

I need to turn it into just a place. Even though that's where we met and became friends, for many years in between that and the A, it was just that: a place. I had to go there for work sometimes, but whatever. It was fine. Now, it's awful. There are just memories everywhere. I have to go there probably seven or eight times a year for work (multiple days each time), so I need to get over this dread and panic attack each time I'm there.

 

I went very very briefly to our "spot". Last time I was there, I stood there and just cried and cried and then emailed him. This time, I just walked past it on my way to somewhere else. I stopped for a minute and felt sad, but no tears and no email afterwards. It sounds silly, but it's at least some progress, no matter how small.

[herself]

I need to turn it into just a place. Even though that's where we met and became friends, for many years in between that and the A, it was just that: a place. I had to go there for work sometimes, but whatever. It was fine. Now, it's awful. There are just memories everywhere. I have to go there probably seven or eight times a year for work (multiple days each time), so I need to get over this dread and panic attack each time I'm there.

 

I went very very briefly to our "spot". Last time I was there, I stood there and just cried and cried and then emailed him. This time, I just walked past it on my way to somewhere else. I stopped for a minute and felt sad, but no tears and no email afterwards. It sounds silly, but it's at least some progress, no matter how small.

 

Baby steps. Has he been in touch?

[Waverly]

Baby steps. Has he been in touch?

 

We're in very very limited contact right now.

[herself]

Us too, but it was stirring up a lot for me, and I kept all emotions to myself, just kept light & friendly with him, but finally in remembering when we broke up I said we would be friends from afar meaning not actively keep in touch but just know we're friends.

I responded to one of his emails asking that we go back to "Afar".

He seemed reluctant and agreed but said he would contact on 1st day of spring.

Just heartbreaking I know.

[Waverly]

Us too, but it was stirring up a lot for me, and I kept all emotions to myself, just kept light & friendly with him, but finally in remembering when we broke up I said we would be friends from afar meaning not actively keep in touch but just know we're friends.

I responded to one of his emails asking that we go back to "Afar".

He seemed reluctant and agreed but said he would contact on 1st day of spring.

Just heartbreaking I know.

 

I admit there's still a part of me that thinks we could pull it off somehow, but when I really think about it, I know that "friends from afar" is probably the best I could manage right now.

 

Spring is coming up soon... how are you feeling about the prospect of hearing from him again?

[Dog Woman]

I admit there's still a part of me that thinks we could pull it off somehow, but when I really think about it, I know that "friends from afar" is probably the best I could manage right now.

 

I've not been on here for over a week but have caught up on your thread. You seem to be making some progress. At the end of the day, noone can tell you how to deal with your exMM, you have to work things out for yourself and find your own path but everything you have said sounds like you are heading in a sensible direction. It is understandable you are going through a period of grief and what you have been experiencing is ok. LS is a fantastic tool to work your thoughts out and get some support as well. As for me, I decided not to respond to my exMM letter. Some things are better left unsaid but I too have very very limited contact with him, because of the dog showing.

[Waverly]

I've not been on here for over a week but have caught up on your thread. You seem to be making some progress. At the end of the day, noone can tell you how to deal with your exMM, you have to work things out for yourself and find your own path but everything you have said sounds like you are heading in a sensible direction. It is understandable you are going through a period of grief and what you have been experiencing is ok. LS is a fantastic tool to work your thoughts out and get some support as well. As for me, I decided not to respond to my exMM letter. Some things are better left unsaid but I too have very very limited contact with him, because of the dog showing.

 

Thanks for checking in. I'm having a tough day today, for some reason. I don't know. I just feel really broken from all of this. I wish I were as strong as you. My xMM is the one pulling away more, and even though I know it's for the best, it just messes with my head so badly. I just feel like I got so many things so wrong. I feel so worthless.

[gettingstronger]

You are not worthless but this relationship is. It's going no place, we'll no place good and is holding you back.

[Waverly]

You are not worthless but this relationship is. It's going no place, we'll no place good and is holding you back.

 

I know. I had a rough afternoon, but I'm trying to dust myself off again tonight. Taking a deep breath. Thanks again.

[Mrs.Scarlet]

I know it hard I’m going through the same thing so I feel your pain. It does get better with time. Your one of the lucky ones you still have your family to go back to. Try to do something fun with them that should help

[Dog Woman]

Thanks for checking in. I'm having a tough day today, for some reason. I don't know. I just feel really broken from all of this. I wish I were as strong as you. My xMM is the one pulling away more, and even though I know it's for the best, it just messes with my head so badly. I just feel like I got so many things so wrong. I feel so worthless.

 

Your not worthless so please stop beating yourself up. Like me you just made a mistake of getting involved with someone who is already committed.

 

Sounds like you need a pamper session and thoroughly spoil yourself - time out just for yourself or do something that makes you feel fantastic about yourself. I may appear strong to you but even after a month of complete no contact with my ex MM (I haven't had any contact from him nor I have come into contact with him at shows) , I have been having the odd off day recently where I was missing him. To deal with it I just threw myself into something to try and distract myself from my thoughts. Don't know about you but I find a massage in peaceful relaxing surroundings very theraputic and it helps to wash away any unwanted thoughts and feelings.

[Waverly]

Your not worthless so please stop beating yourself up. Like me you just made a mistake of getting involved with someone who is already committed.

 

Sounds like you need a pamper session and thoroughly spoil yourself - time out just for yourself or do something that makes you feel fantastic about yourself. I may appear strong to you but even after a month of complete no contact with my ex MM (I haven't had any contact from him nor I have come into contact with him at shows) , I have been having the odd off day recently where I was missing him. To deal with it I just threw myself into something to try and distract myself from my thoughts. Don't know about you but I find a massage in peaceful relaxing surroundings very theraputic and it helps to wash away any unwanted thoughts and feelings.

 

I always look forward to your level-headed replies.

 

I've been trying to take a similar approach as you. We haven't been in contact lately. Honestly, it's made things feel both better and worse. I am getting blasted for this on a thread on the infidelity board right now, but I do worry how he is doing with the drinking. And I do miss him, but I'm trying to detach and focus on what's really in my life - my kids, my husband, my work. I don't know how things will go for me here, but finding little things or projects to focus on has been helping. A massage sounds wonderful too.

[Waverly]

So, not long after posting here this afternoon, I got an email from my xAP. This is the first I've heard from him in a while. He said that the last few days have been rough, and that he and his wife have been talking about getting divorced, but that yesterday they found "common ground" so it's been called off.

 

What the...? First of all, why is he telling me this? What am I supposed to so with this information? I have no idea how to feel right now. He was always SO clear that he wanted to be with his kids 100% of the time. I had no idea things were that bad. But I guess they're not? Also, why does this matter to me at all? I've just been left feeling slightly sick all day after reading this. I wish it didn't still have such an impact on me. It should be totally irrelevant.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

[Buckeye2]

What the...? First of all, why is he telling me this? What am I supposed to so with this information? I have no idea how to feel right now. I've just been left feeling slightly sick all day after reading this.

 

 

You need to look out for your own feelings and wellbeing first and foremost. The OM obviously is.

[BrokenPrincess]

My thought is that I feel absolutely sick for you. My stomach turned over reading your post. I don't know what I would even do if my xAP ever emailed to say he was ever even considering divorce...and then to have a "never mind it's off the table" in the same message is just cruel.

 

He sounds like he's spinning & confiding in you is totally inappropriate & mean. I'm so sorry Waverly. How are you holding up? I know how hard it is to process this stuff while trying to keep up appearances at home. Hang in there, post if you can to help vent & process.

 

What an a$$.

[Hope Shimmers]

So, not long after posting here this afternoon, I got an email from my xAP. This is the first I've heard from him in a while. He said that the last few days have been rough, and that he and his wife have been talking about getting divorced, but that yesterday they found "common ground" so it's been called off.

 

What the...? First of all, why is he telling me this? What am I supposed to so with this information? I have no idea how to feel right now. He was always SO clear that he wanted to be with his kids 100% of the time. I had no idea things were that bad. But I guess they're not? Also, why does this matter to me at all? I've just been left feeling slightly sick all day after reading this. I wish it didn't still have such an impact on me. It should be totally irrelevant.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

He is looking for a reaction from you. He wants to keep you interested so he is throwing crumbs to let you believe that it "may" happen in the future. He doesn't want you walking away and forgetting him. He is still protecting his position with W so nothing has to change now ("calling it off for now") but leading you to think that it still may happen and is a possibility (keeping you hoping).

 

It may be true (it probably is) but his choosing to tell this to you is very .... telling. It is manipulative, whether he realizes it or not... whether he is trying to be that way or not.

 

Please, please ignore him. From my experience - and unfortunately I have too much of it - your best bet is to IGNORE. Let him stew, don't let him think that you are pining away for him or that you are waiting for him to leave his W. Just leave him wondering. It will drive him as crazy as he is driving you, and believe me, he will be thinking about you and wondering. Keep it that way. Trust me on this.

[BetrayedH]

So, not long after posting here this afternoon, I got an email from my xAP. This is the first I've heard from him in a while. He said that the last few days have been rough, and that he and his wife have been talking about getting divorced, but that yesterday they found "common ground" so it's been called off.

 

What the...? First of all, why is he telling me this? What am I supposed to so with this information? I have no idea how to feel right now. He was always SO clear that he wanted to be with his kids 100% of the time. I had no idea things were that bad. But I guess they're not? Also, why does this matter to me at all? I've just been left feeling slightly sick all day after reading this. I wish it didn't still have such an impact on me. It should be totally irrelevant.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Heck, just read your own post. Seriously, what a huge red flag it is that even from your position, you don't know which story to believe about his relationship with his wife - his own stories are polar opposites.

 

It's also a prime example of why LC doesn't really work. Every contact is a hit of the drug that you don't need. It just sounds like you're clinging to this affair and AP as an emotional coping mechanism when intellectually you've already decided against it. I frequently recommend that people use their head instead of their emotionals when making dramatic decisions.

 

I think accepting that you won't really get all of the answers is a big part of healing (and as some would say, the last stage of grief). I'm not even sure you can fully get into another person's head a lot of the time. In a similar vein, I know I will never understand my exwife's thought process. The clincher is that the important answers aren't really coming from over there. The important answers aren't about the other person. Quit checking over there. It's a distraction. You really have enough going on at home.

 

Forgive me if someone has asked this. Are you really prepared to go NC with your AP FOR LIFE? Please think hard about that one. My big three requirements for my WW were: no contact, no lying, and no cheating. If you can't do those things (and more), then forget reconciling. Perhaps most importantly, he has to know you're in on those for the long haul.

Edited March 23, 2014 by BetrayedH

[Waverly]

I'm still all thrown off today. I did make the mistake of replying; I just sent one line saying that I didn't really know what to say to any of that.

 

BH, I think you've distilled the problem pretty well - it's intellect vs emotion at this point. And intellectually, I understand that if I'm going to truly make things right (or try) with my husband, NC would have to be for life. But, honestly, yes, I would have an extremely hard time with that. He was a friend for years and years, and I'm having a hard time letting go of that relationship as well.

 

He was always so clear that his wife didn't "believe" in divorce, that if it were ever to happen it would be undertaken unilaterally by him; but he was so adamant about the kids. Even after the A ended, we were talking about our respective marriages, and I said I didn't know what would happen with mine. Despite all the problems he was having anyway (pre-A), he even said that he wouldn't want to divorce. I can't believe things even got to the point of discussing it. I'm not holding out any hope here. I just don't know what to make of it or understand how he possibly expects me to react.

[Hardgrind]

Waverly, I'm going to build on what BetrayedH posted. My WW and you sound like you have many similarities. She is also finding it very difficult going total NC and she still is harboring the unrealistic expectation that she and the AP can go back to just being friends and that this will make everything okay for all three of us. With my wife, the AP was a former flame (10 years before I met my W) who she reconnected with and that turned into an A during the past year. We had a D-Day back in January.

 

Let me suggest that what you find really additive about your relationship with your AP isn't really him (alcoholic, needy....doesn't sound like a real step up from your H, does he?) but how you see yourself reflected back in his eyes. And that's what's additive, it is the boost to your self esteem and ego that you get.....but its not reality. If you and your AP both did leave your spouses and get together, that will not make his alcohol problem go away. And real life issues would start to chip away at that beautiful reflection of yourself that you get from him.

 

In my case, my WW at least recognizes that she does not want a long intimate relationship with the exAP, who is getting divorced (his W's idea, not his). While my M may yet fail, it will not be so that she can marry her exAP.

 

For your own sake and for my WW's own sake too, you both need to go total NC or else neither of you will never escape the fog and you will not be able to honestly assess your relationships with your husbands.

[Striver]

Not having experience in this situation, would a true friend send a manipulative email like the xAP recently did? Was Casablanca 2 scene after scene of Rick and Ilsa sending each other letters, stringing each other along?

 

It also seems like the progress for Waverly is going to be minimal until she confesses. She's trying to handle this completely on her own, and she's just running in circles. I'd appreciate input from others on this.

[Waverly]

Not having experience in this situation, would a true friend send a manipulative email like the xAP recently did? Was Casablanca 2 scene after scene of Rick and Ilsa sending each other letters, stringing each other along?

 

It also seems like the progress for Waverly is going to be minimal until she confesses. She's trying to handle this completely on her own, and she's just running in circles. I'd appreciate input from others on this.

 

I'm definitely spinning in circles right now.

 

The word manipulative keeps coming up. Maybe I'm being dense, but what would this gain him? He wants to stay with his family; the obstacles to us being together are still there whether he's divorced or not - which he's *not* and is clear that he won't be. How does emphasizing his continued decision to stay married possibly get him anything from me? He wants to move on and fix things in his life.

[BetrayedH]

I'm definitely spinning in circles right now.

 

The word manipulative keeps coming up. Maybe I'm being dense, but what would this gain him? He wants to stay with his family; the obstacles to us being together are still there whether he's divorced or not - which he's *not* and is clear that he won't be. How does emphasizing his continued decision to stay married possibly get him anything from me? He wants to move on and fix things in his life.

 

My $.02 No, he wants both. It's a half-hearted attempted to continue cake-eating. At minimum, he wants you as a plan B back-up, even if he doesn't have the logistics worked out. No one wants to be alone. If he divorces, he'll want you to continue to be his AP. He would be free to travel. Is this a role you're ready for?

[PurpleCardigan]

I'm definitely spinning in circles right now.

 

The word manipulative keeps coming up. Maybe I'm being dense, but what would this gain him? He wants to stay with his family; the obstacles to us being together are still there whether he's divorced or not - which he's *not* and is clear that he won't be. How does emphasizing his continued decision to stay married possibly get him anything from me? He wants to move on and fix things in his life.

 

Could it be he is trying to push you away once and for all by making you so angry that you walk away? To make you the "bad guy" in the end of the relationship to appease his guilt and he can think he's a good person?

 

For example, my xMM said that he would not stop talking to me because I meant so much to him (and still being secret "friends" but not restarting the relationship) -- he is highly conflict avoidant -- so the implied message to me was if I was tired of being jerked around in the world of a push-pull EA relationship, it was up to me to stop talking to him and walk away. In the few preceding days but I did just that, he was mean, biting and was pushing, pushing me away. This was after I saw him in a work situation and it was clear from the look on his face, he still had feelings. He couldn't pull the plug so I think this goal was to push me so hard that I cut it off. In other words, like the guys I dated in HS who were so immature that they got rude so I would break-up with them first.

 

Similarly, my friend is a MW who has an on/off PA with a single OM. She said to me the other night, "I wish he'd stop emailing me with I love you and miss you..." I asked if she responded when he emailed, and she said "yes". Me: "why do you encourage him?" Her: "I want him to break it off, but I'd rather just not hear from him again."

 

So could it be possible that he was trying to make you so angry by saying he'd discussed his divorce but was committing to his marriage, so that you'd say "F-it" and move on but he could still the "good guy" by not actually putting the final nail in the coffin?

 

(Hopefully this makes sense, I'm struggling to find the right words.)

Edited March 23, 2014 by PurpleCardigan
grammar.

[Waverly]

My $.02 No, he wants both. It's a half-hearted attempted to continue cake-eating. At minimum, he wants you as a plan B back-up, even if he doesn't have the logistics worked out. No one wants to be alone. If he divorces, he'll want you to continue to be his AP. He would be free to travel. Is this a role you're ready for?

 

No, of course not. I don't want that. The whole point though is that he's *not* divorcing.