Fresh BS looking for some clarity

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

For male BSs, how did you get over the fact that she slept with someone else, that she wanted it and pursued it. That she wasn't just numb and that it didn't "just happen". I know this is a very fresh wound for me but this is the part I am struggling with the deepest at this juncture.

 

He was a client at her bank who pursued her

 

Towards the end of December her AP had been pursuing her for months and I had warned her about it since she was open to sharing any and all work stories.

 

A few days prior to Christmas, she began to let the

OM

in emotionally and shared secretive texts with him

 

she even states that pre-affair she had no reason to stray and that

she was blind and unappreciative

 

While I understand why she was vulnerable to the affair (

broken/unresolved childhood, low self-esteem, low self-confidence, need for affirmation, cheating unremorsefully on her ex/first prior to me, our communication styles

), I do not understand how someone can cause such pain to someone they love as this falls outside of my definition of love. I also read multiple times that

the affair is rarely about the

BS

, but have found no conclusive guidance to how people come to this realization but I believe an understanding of this might bring me some peace.

 

From your earlier post, it seems that other man pursued her, not other way around. He sought her out and pursued her, but eventually she willingly went along - why? she was unappreciative? - does that mean she thought you should have been doing more than you were, so she gave herself permission because you weren't living up to her expectations? If not, what does it mean? I think it is important for you to figure this out to understand the situation.

 

She slept with others before you - at least one? Yet you don't think about her having sex with him? Why do you think that is? Is it really about the sex or is it about something else?

 

Other man was there pursuing her. If he didn't approach her, then pursue her for months, would she have sought him out? Him specifically? Would she have sought someone else out? I think the reason for it was not so much this specific other man, but him being the one who made himself available to her at that time that she was open to it. If another guy pursued her instead of this one, she may have given in to that guy. I think her having the opportunity had something to do with it. What do you think?

 

I think another aspect of it is her being "unappreciative." I suspect she may have used that feeling, which you did not really yet describe what it encompasses, as part of her rationalization as to why it was OK for her to cheat on you. I find it a little disturbing that you warned her about this guy, like you saw this train wreck about to happen, and she just went through with it anyway. How does your trying to warn her away from this guy play into all of this?

 

Her past, her childhood, all of that stuff, may or may not have played a part in it.

 

These are areas to work out with her. To me it doesn't sound like the physical sex was a big part of it for her. You will have to talk to her to get your answers, but those are my impressions.

[harrybrown]

Whatever you decide, it will take a long time to get where this hurts less and less.

 

She cheated because she is selfish, she wanted to cheat, it was exciting and forbidden.

 

She was not thinking about you or your pain or the future.

 

I have been trying to figure out why this guy in my situation. I do not see it, she traded way down. (in my situation)

 

How would she feel if you had an affair? I am worried that she will do this again. You do not have children.

 

Sorry you are in this mess she made. What is she going to do to help her with boundaries in the future?

[gettingstronger]

I see a lot of back and forth on what she may or may not do in the future- a lot of what you should do about/with her-but not enough about you- as this is still pretty fresh please remember

 

get some sleep

eat as well as you can

get mentally and physically healthy

surround yourself with people you love and trust-even if you do not tell them whats going on

 

In short- take care of you- you are the one that will pull you through this so you need to be prepared-its a long, painful journey- so much longer than I ever thought it would be-the questions you have now will haunt you for a quite a while-its pure hell BUT you need to be prepared so go ahead and take care of you for a while-

[atreides]

You really have yourself in order for such a very painful life event, so hats off.

 

I like alot of what BetrayedH had to say but...

 

I would say D is a good bet in your case. It does not mean the end of your relationship as it is not unheard of people getting back together but I do agree that even if it is symbolic, symbols many times carry tremendous weight and influence with them.

 

In the little i have read it seems that the question is "if you want to start over with a new beginning." You are solid in ending your M, so it seems to me but unsure post the divorce on whether making her work for a fresh start is worth your current love and feelings for her vs those that are unknown or to come, an opportunity cost at its finest i suppose.

 

As others have said, there are no guarantees either way but I would look at this way. If we are talking about opportunity costs here , you are already in debt with life spent on pain, rebuilding yourself and such via your current situation, so the pay off has to be greater and having been married for such a short time in your case may not "balance the sheets." But then again she may be your soul mate... Just my opinion.

[Desrame]

From your earlier post, it seems that other man pursued her, not other way around. He sought her out and pursued her, but eventually she willingly went along - why? she was unappreciative? - does that mean she thought you should have been doing more than you were, so she gave herself permission because you weren't living up to her expectations? If not, what does it mean? I think it is important for you to figure this out to understand the situation.

 

She slept with others before you - at least one? Yet you don't think about her having sex with him? Why do you think that is? Is it really about the sex or is it about something else?

 

Other man was there pursuing her. If he didn't approach her, then pursue her for months, would she have sought him out? Him specifically? Would she have sought someone else out? I think the reason for it was not so much this specific other man, but him being the one who made himself available to her at that time that she was open to it. If another guy pursued her instead of this one, she may have given in to that guy. I think her having the opportunity had something to do with it. What do you think?

 

I think another aspect of it is her being "unappreciative." I suspect she may have used that feeling, which you did not really yet describe what it encompasses, as part of her rationalization as to why it was OK for her to cheat on you. I find it a little disturbing that you warned her about this guy, like you saw this train wreck about to happen, and she just went through with it anyway. How does your trying to warn her away from this guy play into all of this?

 

Her past, her childhood, all of that stuff, may or may not have played a part in it.

 

These are areas to work out with her. To me it doesn't sound like the physical sex was a big part of it for her. You will have to talk to her to get your answers, but those are my impressions.

 

These are areas to work out with her. To me it doesn't sound like the physical sex was a big part of it for her. You will have to talk to her to get your answers, but those are my impressions.

 

Him specifically? Definitely not, he is a major downgrade, I believe it was a case of right place right time for him, or wrong case wrong time for my WW. She has plenty of opportunity as she is a very beautiful girl, and has without a shadow of a doubt had better opportunity.

As for the unappreciative part, we’ve discussed that in depth. I warned her months prior and did not think about it again since previously she had always avoided other men like the plague. The situation came down to a few things for her which she deeply regrets and owns completely:

Trust – She always felt like I was the most amazing and that I would cheat on her, so she ended up doing it first because she felt unworthy of me. This one is definitely rooted in her childhood as she was continually abandoned growing up.

Communication – This had been manifesting over time and she felt like what she said didn’t matter.

Love – She was worried that I didn’t love her anymore and that she was becoming less attractive. As a byproduct sex felt like a chore to her.

Dependent – She felt entirely dependent on me and when I was unable to be there for her, she would completely break down internally and be reminded of her childhood

There’s more to each of those but that’s a pretty rapid summary. As such, I have learned that I need to be more transparent, patient and forthcoming with everything even if I think it does not matter. I need to paraphrase what she is saying back to her so that she knows she is heard and more importantly understood. I need to show her that she is wanted both physically (ended up giving into hysterical bonding last night and just taking her in raw passion, I saw the light in her eyes come back and a little swagger as well)as well as emotionally (I continually encourage her self growth and affirm when she is emotionally strong and that it makes me happy).

As for the physical sex, it definitely wasn’t a big part of it, but it was the earthshattering moment for her when as she put it “you flashed before my eyes and I felt such a rush of self-loathing and disgust that I knew I had to stop forever”. What started as emotional support and feeling appreciated/loved/wanted culminated in a catalyst.

[Desrame]

Whatever you decide, it will take a long time to get where this hurts less and less.

 

She cheated because she is selfish, she wanted to cheat, it was exciting and forbidden.

 

She was not thinking about you or your pain or the future.

 

I have been trying to figure out why this guy in my situation. I do not see it, she traded way down. (in my situation)

How would she feel if you had an affair? I am worried that she will do this again. You do not have children.

 

Sorry you are in this mess she made. What is she going to do to help her with boundaries in the future?

 

 

From what I have read, it is almost always a trade down in events like this, I know in my case it was, and I'm sorry you're going through the same thing.

 

For now her boundaries are hypervigilant where refuses to talk to anyone other than her two closest friends who are both extraordinary people, and will not even engage in the slightest form of conversation with anyone else. It is not a well defined boundary as of yet, but as she puts it, until she has defined boundaries she must overprotect herself and me.

[Desrame]

I see a lot of back and forth on what she may or may not do in the future- a lot of what you should do about/with her-but not enough about you- as this is still pretty fresh please remember

 

get some sleep

eat as well as you can

get mentally and physically healthy

surround yourself with people you love and trust-even if you do not tell them whats going on

 

In short- take care of you- you are the one that will pull you through this so you need to be prepared-its a long, painful journey- so much longer than I ever thought it would be-the questions you have now will haunt you for a quite a while-its pure hell BUT you need to be prepared so go ahead and take care of you for a while-

 

get some sleep

I can't remember the last time I slept this much!

 

eat as well as you can

She is helping with this extraordinarily, it is her first priority every night to make sure I'm eating. In addition if I don't have lunch meetings she offers to order me food and have it delivered to my desk.

 

get mentally and physically healthy

I've been writing and journaling pretty heavy, reading a ton and doing the things I enjoy which includes playing soccer multiple times a week.

 

surround yourself with people you love and trust-even if you do not tell them whats going on

Seeing people is still a big struggle for me, very few people know what has happened and I do not get out weekly like I used to. I'm normally not a hermit but I feel like I've become one in the interim.

 

Thanks for the advice and I'll continue to work on these.

[Desrame]

You really have yourself in order for such a very painful life event, so hats off.

 

I like alot of what BetrayedH had to say but...

 

I would say D is a good bet in your case. It does not mean the end of your relationship as it is not unheard of people getting back together but I do agree that even if it is symbolic, symbols many times carry tremendous weight and influence with them.

 

In the little i have read it seems that the question is "if you want to start over with a new beginning." You are solid in ending your M, so it seems to me but unsure post the divorce on whether making her work for a fresh start is worth your current love and feelings for her vs those that are unknown or to come, an opportunity cost at its finest i suppose.

 

As others have said, there are no guarantees either way but I would look at this way. If we are talking about opportunity costs here , you are already in debt with life spent on pain, rebuilding yourself and such via your current situation, so the pay off has to be greater and having been married for such a short time in your case may not "balance the sheets." But then again she may be your soul mate... Just my opinion.

 

D seems to be the route to go at this point, or at the very least the route to walk towards. As for the opportunity cost, this has been weighing heavily on my mind, the way I see it, it was a horrible thing to do to me, but if I can feel 90% confidence after all of this that I will live a very happy life long M once R is complete, the risk surely outweighs the cost of a few years of my life. Time will tell significantly on that piece.

[Desrame]

Believe me, we will struggle with this. Let me say this, how it may be for you:

 

My DDay was April 2013. Just when your WS was revealing her behaviours, I was asking my wife back with forgiveness, after a month of structured separation. My WS has done ZERO things wrong in the big picture, has not been perfect in some small trickle truth issues, but fine. I forgave her and invited her back into our marriage, albeit, as I mentioned, we no longer celebrate our union.

 

Yesterday, I felt strong and good, and had a great day with my WS after passing through 3 days of enormous depression around our 16th anniversary (which was also the 1st anniversary of her deciding and telling a confidant that she was going to go PA with her EA.)

 

This morning, I wake up, read your question, and it throws me back into question. IN two minutes, sitting here, and reading that question, I am triggered BACK to that emotional state where I wanted to throw in the towel.

 

So this is how we live: a lot of good, even great days, and then BAM. Back to that question: how can I stay in a primary relationship with a woman who slept with a co-worker. Not once, but repeatedly. And who only stopped because I found out.

 

I can say three things:

 

1. She did it for herself. It was sex with him she wanted. Not that she didnt want sex with me, but she wanted the intimacy she was getting in EA in a PA as well.

 

2. She is not the problem. I am the problem. It is ME that has to either get over this, or move out of this marriage. Of course if she hadn't had an A, I wouldn't be feeling this. But we have to call a spade a spade: it is me that cannot seem to get past it and nothing she can do can make that go away. She has done everything she has had to do, and to ask for more would be merely exercising power and taking advantage of a situation as victim. And I do NOT wish to spend the rest of my life a victim.

 

3. This feeling comes and goes. It comes and goes. It goes more with time than it comes. And the only thing I can do to get it out of my head is get busy with my life, change my mindset, stay off LS where reading other BS's problems are a huge source of triggers, etc. So maybe its best to accept that, for example, the next 2 years you are going to have these flipflops in emotional commitments to the question of your marriage.

 

 

You asked generally BS's are dealing with this. My advice to you is you should ask questions a little more precisely, because as you have seen you have merely opened the door for more of the BS's who have D as their only solution to any A as the answer:

 

FOR THOSE male BS's who remained and worked on recovery, HOW DID YOU MANAGE overcoming the knowledge that your WW slept with another man.

 

I think you will find the issue of sex outside the marriage has slightly different emotional issues. I believe that woman react the same way, what seems to be more pronounced is "getting past" it.

 

First off, you have come so far and I apologize for causing a trigger. I hope you are able to recover from that quickly.

 

I agree that at some point I will have to either get over it or move on. I look forward to the point down the road where my WS has the track record yours has so that I have enough clarity to travel the path of potentially moving beyond it. In addition I agree that taking advantage of a situation creates the victim mentality and is extremely unhealthy to both partners, if there is one thing I strive for more than any other at this juncture it is to be fair, honest and kind at all points. I’m hoping to get to a point where I have a survivor mentality and no longer a victim mentality.

 

As of yet, reading other BS’s problems hasn’t been a trigger quite yet, but I am eyes wide open that I will be a roller coaster for years to come (sadly) and that the flip flops will continue but lessen. Reading the stories of successfully reconciled couples gives me hope that I’ll be able to look at this with ambivalence down the road and realize the juice was worth the squeeze and that more or less I will be able to compartmentalize the ideas of who she was vs who she is. Of what we had vs what we have. With confidence that the new deal renegotiated would never have happened without this tragedy. That happiness would have been more shallow and false without this event.

 

You are also right on my format of asking questions and that I do need to be more detailed and pointed, and I will endeavor to do so.

[Desrame]

Thank you to everyone once more for your insight and viewpoints, they really do help get my mind going in a more analytical way and are deeply appreciated.

 

Yesterday I had an interesting self discovery moment that I'd like to share. I have been struggling with the concept of betraying someone you love and I was consistently of the mindset that she did not truly love me, that nobody could love me and do that to me. Granted it is easier to say that when I have never been in the shoes of a WS. While analyzing my past I came to an interesting parallel (albeit different circumstances), where I betrayed not only myself but my family when I was in college. My dad was diagnosed with cancer 10 years ago and I quit school to spend more time with him and to support my mother through her ordeal, yet when push came to shove I failed to cope with it even remotely and turned to exterior sources (mainly drinking) which led to my DUI catalyst. I was vacant in offering my father any support, which was a double betrayal of both of my parents. It is my greatest regret in life beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have long since come to peace and forgiven myself for this, as well as been forgiven and my relationship with my family is better than it has ever been. It is genuine and deep.

 

When considering this, I realized that I in fact did love my family the whole way through, I just had extremely poor coping skills which led to some serious life changes for me and allowed me to shed my old skin and become the man I am today. Horrible, yes. But it was able to show me that it is possible to love someone and still due to weakness and insecurity horrifically betray them with no ill intent whatsoever. The whole time I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I kept telling myself "tomorrow will be a better day", "oh just one more day and then I'll make the right choice", etc. 20/20 hindsight I suppose but we are all human and all make mistakes.

[Desrame]

While I understand that there is absolutely no guarantee in this regard whatsoever, the topic came up at one point last night and I ended up asking how I could be sure that this would never occur again? She stated that the pain in my eyes was the worst experience she has ever had in her life and it shattered her heart into pieces. She would never want to put anyone through that again, or to live the pain again.

 

As a BS what rationale have you heard from your WS regarding this, and as a remorseful WS what makes you positive you will never cheat again?

 

Side Note: She also stated that she betrayed herself and the level of guilt/shame is unbearable, but it wasn't her main justification.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Desrame
Side Note

[troubadour]

While I understand that there is absolutely no guarantee in this regard whatsoever, the topic came up at one point last night and I ended up asking how I could be sure that this would never occur again? She stated that the pain in my eyes was the worst experience she has ever had in her life and it shattered her heart into pieces. She would never want to put anyone through that again, or to live the pain again.

 

Side Note: She also stated that she betrayed herself and the level of guilt/shame is unbearable, but it wasn't her main justification.

 

Desrame, I hope you realize that these are just words from a married woman who got caught having an affair after being married for just 2.5 years. The affair is dead (no longer an option) so she is talking now how hard it was for her to see pain in your eyes and about her own shame and guild. But when the cake was still on the table she didn't care about any of these things.... she just wanted to bang the other guy and it was all what really mattered to her.

[tiredofitall2]

While I understand that there is absolutely no guarantee in this regard whatsoever, the topic came up at one point last night and I ended up asking how I could be sure that this would never occur again? She stated that the pain in my eyes was the worst experience she has ever had in her life and it shattered her heart into pieces. She would never want to put anyone through that again, or to live the pain again.

 

As a BS what rationale have you heard from your WS regarding this, and as a remorseful WS what makes you positive you will never cheat again?

 

Side Note: She also stated that she betrayed herself and the level of guilt/shame is unbearable, but it wasn't her main justification.

 

I don't agree with the statement above, yes your W messed up. She failed, but she is absolutely right and true in what she is telling you. One of the main reason A end is because the WS realizes the pain they have cause their BS. They are in the "fog" until the see the pain in the eyes of their spouse. It wakes them up rather quickly...

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

While I understand that there is absolutely no guarantee in this regard whatsoever, the topic came up at one point last night and I ended up asking how I could be sure that this would never occur again?

 

There are no guarantees. She is saying - and doing - all of the right things at this point. If you were married 10 years with kids I would say try to reconcile. But you are married less than three years with no kids. And you warned her. And still it happened. The longer you are married, once you have kids, once you have deeper financial commitments, mortgage payments, tuition payments, the marriage usually gets tougher, not easier. Right now it is just you and her with hardly any real stresses on the marriage compared to what will come later. The longer you are married, when you divorce, the more issues there are. Alimony, child support, custody issues, selling the house, boyfriends, girlfriends, step parents, in laws. It all gets messier if you stay married and it doesn't work out. So think long and hard about what you want. There are no guarantees.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick

[Gazza911]

It's with sadness that I've read this entire post.

 

I am another 20years down the line from you. I handled my situation appallingly. I know we are all different and have different thoughts and needs but this is what I would do.

 

I'd tell her to leave and start D proceedings. You don't have kids which is good. Never look back. Find someone who does not do this and love and cherish them instead. The personal cost is too much in the long term. It has been for me anyway but like I said, I handled my situation completely wrongly.

 

Good luck