Desrame Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Our story I have been lurking on this site for five weeks and have finally decided to take the plunge and share my story as a BS in the hopes that I am able to gain some clarity. We are a younger couple who has been happily (or so I thought) married for 2.5 years, no kids, no financial obligations to each other. Who I am I am a business process analyst in charge of my company's process improvement initiative. I am extremely analytical and reason rules my world. I am excruciatingly detail oriented and my core values are Reason, Equity/Justice, Integrity above all else. I was raised in a very stable home where kindness and love were highly reinforced, but communication was not always the strongest as issues that caused conflict were generally swept under the rug. Who she is She is a bank manager who is very compassionate and naïve at times. Nurturing tends to rule her world more than any other descriptor. She was raised in a completely broken home which included abuse (physical, mental, sexual), where her mother was engaging in affairs and eventually abandoned the family when she was really young never to be seen again. She was shuffled from house to house and in and out of foster care for most of her childhood. Who he was He was a client at her bank who pursued her following his recent breakup involving a wayward girlfriend. He is absolutely nothing like me and has no drive in life, is a security guard and sells weed on the side. Affair Story Without getting into the nitty gritty of it, a rough timetable of affair events goes as such. Towards the end of December her AP had been pursuing her for months and I had warned her about it since she was open to sharing any and all work stories. A few days prior to Christmas, she began to let the OM in emotionally and shared secretive texts with him unbeknownst to me. The day after Christmas she went to meet him for the first time and they shared their first kiss but nothing more. Three days later everything went completely physical and fully culminated. On New Year’s Eve, she made one small comment that sent alarm bells ringing and whereas before I was blindly trusting, I began to gather my thoughts and pursue the truth. On the third of January she met the OM and ended the physical aspect of the relationship stating she wanted to be with me. On the 6th of January I confronted her naively and she eventually admitted to an emotional affair, at the same time she went NC with the OM (I didn't ask for it). However at this point things still did not add up in my mind and after much inner turmoil and thinking I requested further information. On the 23rd she gave me full access to everything which allowed me to verify my worst fears. I calmly called her best friend and told her that my WW would need a place to stay and asked if she could house her temporarily. Without getting any further details on the where/when/how many etc, we separated. Since D-Day At this point I assumed I was completely done, but not wanting to make a decision based purely on emotion, I invited her back to the house as a pure roommate (my own peace of mind) and she moved into the guest bedroom and has been there ever since. She has been extremely remorseful and has (to my knowledge) maintained full NC and gone out of her way to be understanding, and dedicated to change. The following is a list of things (in no particular order) she has done on her own without me saying a word on what I needed: · She changed her phone number that day to help ensure NC · She began to (and last night finished) her resume and cover letter and is attempting to find a new job so that the OM has no further way to see/contact her (he still comes into the branch and she is very open about when he does without me needing to ask) · She has been purchasing and devouring books on the subject and discussing them fervently · She has attempted communication on a level I have not ever seen from her (although there were a few trickle truths in the beginning, I believe I finally have the entire story of her emotional journey through the process) · She began IC and has been deeply investigating the why as well as attempting to resolve her entire and tragic childhood which has always been swept under the rug · She has written an exhaustive list of what she wants to heal about herself as well as me (although I'm sure more will come up as IC continues) · She has offered to pay for my IC as well which is a slight financial burden on her especially given her unsure financial future · She has openly and honestly apologized to her closest family (I did not disclose to them what occurred)as well as mine in addition to my best friend (really more like my brother) · She has affirmed that I am the one and she will make every sacrifice possible to rectify the mistake she made and ensure that it does not happen ever again. · She continually tries to make me feel appreciated and loved by leaving thoughtful notes, making sure I eat (I’m sure all BS can recognize that being indifferent while at work is excruciatingly draining and leaves little energy for anything else) · She is very understanding of timeframes revolving around this and states that no matter how long it takes she is not going to give up or pressure me to make decisions or do any sort of R or MC before I am ready to (if I'm ever ready to which she knows). · She owns the mistake 100%, she even states that pre-affair she had no reason to stray and that she was blind and unappreciative (I’m no angel, and I realize that I indeed COULD have been a better H) · She is pushing for hysterical bonding (I still cannot stomach sex with her), but she hungers to do anything else she can physically for me which settles me down when im emotionally distraught. Next Steps: Currently the way it sits now is that we are separated and very very little of me is seeing a future with her, as such I am making no move towards R or MC until I climb my own mountain through IC and self reflection and regain my sense of self. She understands that this could take months or even longer and is very willing to wait and be strong. Once I have reached this point, I feel for R to even be possible, I would need to see immense change and personal growth as well as persistent dedication to individual change. In addition I need to be romantically connected to her, which I am 0% at this juncture. Lastly I need to decide if I am the type of man who can forgive a transgression like this or if it really is as black and white as I think it may be to me. I love her dearly and consider her my best friend and truly just want the best for her whether that is with me or not. Current Questions · This one is extremely sketchy to me, but she understands my core values and that Integrity would NEVER allow me to have a RA (the thought sickens me), and that Equity/Justice are extremely important to me. As such, she pushing for having a threesome so if nothing else, mathematically we are equals again (which we were previously). There are more justifications for this such as bonding and understanding each other but the main one is my sense of equity. Does anyone have any experience with this? · While I believe she is remorseful, I am unsure if I am the type of guy who can ever be with someone who did this. I will be able to forgive; nobody is able to forget, but move forward with a WW? I’m not sure if that is within my nature. · While I understand why she was vulnerable to the affair (broken/unresolved childhood, low self-esteem, low self-confidence, need for affirmation, cheating unremorsefully on her ex/first prior to me, our communication styles), I do not understand how someone can cause such pain to someone they love as this falls outside of my definition of love. I also read multiple times that the affair is rarely about the BS, but have found no conclusive guidance to how people come to this realization but I believe an understanding of this might bring me some peace. · How can you truly tell if someone is remorseful and changing, or if it is purely guilt driven and the change is merely on the surface? Any additional thoughts/advice would be very welcome as I’m sure the questions I have currently are merely scraping the surface of the iceberg.
underwater2010 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 First off....Kudos to both of you for taking ALL the steps in the right direction. It is not easy and sadly not as black and white as most BS's would like it to be. I am very much an x+y=z girl. I was always able to walk without a second glance back. That being said....I forgave. Current Questions · This one is extremely sketchy to me, but she understands my core values and that Integrity would NEVER allow me to have a RA (the thought sickens me), and that Equity/Justice are extremely important to me. As such, she pushing for having a threesome so if nothing else, mathematically we are equals again (which we were previously). There are more justifications for this such as bonding and understanding each other but the main one is my sense of equity. Does anyone have any experience with this? Not a good idea. Things are confusing enough without adding a third party, again, into the mix. This is her way of releasing a part of her guilt. DO NOT do it. She has to work through that guilt. · While I believe she is remorseful, I am unsure if I am the type of guy who can ever be with someone who did this. I will be able to forgive; nobody is able to forget, but move forward with a WW? I’m not sure if that is within my nature. And that is something you have to decide....but it does not have to be right this minute. Take your time. Figure yourself out and give her time to figure herself out. Then take the time to do MC. It should bring you to the answers that you seek. · While I understand why she was vulnerable to the affair (broken/unresolved childhood, low self-esteem, low self-confidence, need for affirmation, cheating unremorsefully on her ex/first prior to me, our communication styles), I do not understand how someone can cause such pain to someone they love as this falls outside of my definition of love. I also read multiple times that the affair is rarely about the BS, but have found no conclusive guidance to how people come to this realization but I believe an understanding of this might bring me some peace. Most of the time...it is not about the BS. The marriage itself might being having some issues. But it is purely the broken WS's issues. My marriage was not perfect...but not bad either. My FWH was simply bored and needed a little ego stroking...something his core family is all guilty of. He comes from a very selfish family....warning sign for me. But for all that he has shown me disappointment in himself and shame that he almost broke me. Sometimes love of one's self is great than the love they are able to give. · How can you truly tell if someone is remorseful and changing, or if it is purely guilt driven and the change is merely on the surface? That is where TIME comes in. Anyone can fake remorse for a small time. But it is the long term that shows a person's character or true change. Kind of like a little kid. They can say their sorry and behave in order to avoid the consequences, but you can tell they learned their lesson when the situation arises again and they take the right path. Any additional thoughts/advice would be very welcome as I’m sure the questions I have currently are merely scraping the surface of the iceberg. see bolded. Take your time and keep your eyes wide open. Start taking care of yourself, keep communication open with her and just breathe. You have plenty of time to decide what you want and deserve. Just as she has plenty of time to prove whether or not she is worthy of your forgiveness. 6
BetrayedH Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 For what it's worth, I think you're doing well. A strong stance is required at the beginning, particularly to retain your own sense of self-worth. Too many (myself included) will instead make all efforts about salvaging the marriage. As well, your strong stance sends a clear message to your WW that IF forgiveness happens, it's only happening this once. Kudos on a good start. As for your questions, having your own affair or a threesome to balance things is an awful idea. Some would find your wife's willingness to share you to be a major red flag. I don't. I think it's desperation on her part to mitigate the damage. I believe it to be well-intentioned but misguided. DON'T make things crazier than they are. My wife made a similar offer and I took her up on it; I had my own two day fling. It hurt my wife, it hurt the other woman, and it hurt me and other than a very temporary band-aid on my bruised ego, it really solved nothing. I can talk to at length about this should you want to but for now please know that it doesn't work and my advice is that if you're going to reconcile, do it properly. As for forgiving her, it's highly personal. You've definitely reached what is really on your personal plate. It takes two things to reconcile after infidelity: (1) a truly remorseful wayward spouse and (2) truly forgiving betrayed spouse. #2 cannot come before #1. The good news is that there is no pressure on you to decide in the immediate future. It can take a good long while before you know if you even have a truly remorseful wayward. BUT, in my view, it makes all the difference in the world. And after your brief post, it looks like your wife is absolutely on the right track. That can make a hell of a difference. She is doing a lot more than just spewing cheap words; she is taking actions and being proactive. Frankly, I think it's rare and remarkable. Someday you may really appreciate what she's done to try to correct this mistake. There are many happily reconciled couples here. It's my hope that you join their ranks. As for her affair being about you, it very likely wasn't at all. In fact, your wife sounds like a prime example of an affair being the result of the wayward being a broken person. This was about her. The characteristics I typically see are either severe conflict-avoidance, an excessive need for external validation, or an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Many times there is a combination. These things develop from childhood or our family of origin (FOO). It ain't about you, even though it sure 'feels' like a massive betrayal of you. I think that you're quite correct that a good understanding of this may help you feel better about forgiveness. If this really wasn't about you, she's being honest and forthright about doing the work to fix herself (and whatever else is necessary to fix her marriage because she loves you), then perhaps this is a forgivable offense. Keep reading and posting. And good luck. Oh, and you might want to think about buying into some of that hysterical bonding business. Just sayin'. 4
oldshirt Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I'll address more but for the moment I advise smashing down the three,,domes idea with a sledgehammer. Outside sex has caused terrible damage to your marriage, more outside sex is not the medicine for it. She's trying to tit-for-tat mitigate the damage and it just doesn't work that way for a million different reasons. In her panic stricken mind she's grasping at straws thinking if you banged another chick you'd be forgiving of her transgression but that's not how it works. She's actually shooting herself in the foot because subconsciously when a spouse gives authorization to be with others it causes a decrease in attraction because it makes the other person feel less valued and protected. She's doing a lot of things on-the-money right but she's falling down here. She needs to be doing the exact opposite and mate-guard you like it was the solution for peace and world hunger. 4
Realist3 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I agree with the above posters, but mostly I wanted to say this is one of the most beautifully written posts I have ever seen on this site. 3
KathyM Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 A lot of times women who were sexually abused as children have low self esteem and a distorted sense of self worth. Their self worth revolves around getting validation from men, and unfortunately, that is likely why your wife cheated. Poor sense of self, and needing validation from other men. You said she cheated previously with an ex. Now she cheated on you as well. She may be remorseful for the pain her actions caused you, but whether that can be a good indication that she can remain faithful for the long term is highly questionable. Your wife is a broken woman. Damaged by the sexual abuse she experienced as a child. The risk of repeating the infidelity is pretty high with someone like this. Her self esteem is tied to getting validation from men. As far as having a threesome, don't. That will only further damage your relationship with her, and compromise your own values. 1
Fluttershy Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Here is soemthing for you to consider. Sometimes the most stable and sound person cheats. There is no way of avoiding it. There are things you can do in a marriage to decrease it. There are things you can learn to look for though often too little to late. But you can never know what the other person will do or if they will change and become a cheater. So I believe that a wayward spouse who has tasted and owned the reality of affairs and seen with their own eyes the one they actually love fall out of love with them for a time, make the changes and seek answers on what is broken in them. Realize what boundaries are and have their gaurd up. They are a safer bet than someone new who has never cheated on you. I would say you are on a a good introspective path. A few other things. A. It takes time to know if you can forgive. I actually think you are capable of this because you have already shown more compassion than most Bs would. B. Humans are selfish by nature. Some show signs more than others. It is That part of our nature that makes us want to make affairs all about us, the betrayed. What dis i do wrong, how could they do this to me. When in many cases we have nothing to do with their screw up except being the innocent casualty. Lots of WS like to blame the BS too. But your wayward has owned it. I imagine in her case the trickle truth was to protect her marriage and your feelings. Yes a little too late but she woke up on her own. A very good sign. Some WS trickle truth because they have no intentions of actually endin the affair. C. Don't let your pride get in the way of future happiness. You have behaved well and it appears with honour. There is nothing weak in reconciliation when it is approached in a full transparency way and the line has been drawn in the sand. Infidelity can still be a deal breaker for you (which is easy tos au before your own story plays out). But you can make a new deal and give a second chance. D. Keep taking your time to decide. I am a woman and sometimes i get dismissed because I don't understand how menfeel and all that crap is thrown at me if my opinion is unliked. My husband's affair was almost all about sex. And it almost ended our marriage. If he hadn't shown me daily how he regreted it... I don't share sexually. I don't want another woman with him. Before i knew he cheated I was proud o how faithful he was when ither couples dropped like flies. I could trust him to have a close female friend because e wouldn't do anything. I was clear that I wouldn't be one o those people who stayed with a cheater. I was right. I didn't stay with a cheater. I gave a man a second chance who was doing everything right to rebuild our marriage. There are people who say no kids run... But, i disagree with staying just for kids. So if you decide to see how this turns out. That is your personal choice and considerin her behaviour so far... It looks quite promising. 4
Fluttershy Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 A lot of times women who were sexually abused as children have low self esteem and a distorted sense of self worth. Their self worth revolves around getting validation from men, and unfortunately, that is likely why your wife cheated. Poor sense of self, and needing validation from other men. You said she cheated previously with an ex. Now she cheated on you as well. She may be remorseful for the pain her actions caused you, but whether that can be a good indication that she can remain faithful for the long term is highly questionable. Your wife is a broken woman. Damaged by the sexual abuse she experienced as a child. The risk of repeating the infidelity is pretty high with someone like this. Her self esteem is tied to getting validation from men. As far as having a threesome, don't. That will only further damage your relationship with her, and compromise your own values. I reread the post a few times and I can't find where she has cheated in the past. And past behaviour is not a good indicator of future behaviour. Consistent current behaviour is.
KathyM Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I reread the post a few times and I can't find where she has cheated in the past. And past behaviour is not a good indicator of future behaviour. Consistent current behaviour is. He said in his OP that his wife cheated on her ex previous to her relationship with the OP. And I don't agree with you that past behavior is not a good indicator of future behavior. People with unresolved childhood issues tend to repeat the behaviors that are a result of those issues. Hopefully, the IC she is getting will help to make her less susceptible in the future, but old patterns die hard, and she may always have a vulnerability to validation from men moreso than women who do not have such childhood issues. 2
cozycottagelg Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I reread the post a few times and I can't find where she has cheated in the past. And past behaviour is not a good indicator of future behaviour. Consistent current behaviour is. I have to disagree with this. Past behavior is a very good indicator of future behavior. Not just with cheating. I am not saying that "once a cheater, always a cheater" because I don't believe that to be true...but I do think that past behaviors in general are a good indicator of future behaviors.
kalimata Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Desrame: Your WW seems truly sorry for the pain she has caused. She appears to have done all the right things to set things straight. However I can understand your pain. It takes time. You may not come to a decision right away. If you decide to go into R, the images/thoughts of the A will subside. They will never go away, but will gradually diminish with time. Your love for your WW will grow, but you both need to work on this. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A THREESOME. Sounds like a weird suggestion to me by your WW so that you can feel 'even' for being slighted. Keep your integrity intact. If you decide at a later time to forgive your WW, then its your choice. Having a threesome would force the upperhand to your WW. She (WW) sounds like she has a lot of issues to explore with a good therapist. You are still young, and have no kids. Don't rush things. If after a few months you don't feel any better, then just file for D and move on.
harrybrown Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 She cheated in the past and it is seems that it did not take long from the kiss to a PA. That is troubling. You do not have kids with her. File for divorce, and see what happens. Maybe you can date again, but this is a rotten situation. If you do not file for divorce, get an agreement about the future of alimony property settlement and kids, because I see you having more pain in the future. Sorry you are in this situation.
oldshirt Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I And past behaviour is not a good indicator of future behaviour. Consistent current behaviour is. Past behavior is the only indicator of potential future behavior. Current behavior can simply be a reflection of current circumstances and can be faked altogether. Is easy for someone to faithful when things are going great at home and they don't have any other great opportunities knocking at their door at the moment. It's also easy to behave when you know you are on probation and being watched under the microscope. Looking at someone's past on how they behaved when they werent being watched like a hawk and had a golden opportunity fall in their lap is much more revealing. 1
drifter777 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Current Questions · This one is extremely sketchy to me, but she understands my core values and that Integrity would NEVER allow me to have a RA (the thought sickens me), and that Equity/Justice are extremely important to me. As such, she pushing for having a threesome so if nothing else, mathematically we are equals again (which we were previously). There are more justifications for this such as bonding and understanding each other but the main one is my sense of equity. Does anyone have any experience with this? · While I believe she is remorseful, I am unsure if I am the type of guy who can ever be with someone who did this. I will be able to forgive; nobody is able to forget, but move forward with a WW? I’m not sure if that is within my nature. · While I understand why she was vulnerable to the affair (broken/unresolved childhood, low self-esteem, low self-confidence, need for affirmation, cheating unremorsefully on her ex/first prior to me, our communication styles), I do not understand how someone can cause such pain to someone they love as this falls outside of my definition of love. I also read multiple times that the affair is rarely about the BS, but have found no conclusive guidance to how people come to this realization but I believe an understanding of this might bring me some peace. · How can you truly tell if someone is remorseful and changing, or if it is purely guilt driven and the change is merely on the surface? Any additional thoughts/advice would be very welcome as I’m sure the questions I have currently are merely scraping the surface of the iceberg. Wow - all the feelings and thoughts you have expressed are pretty much identical to how I felt in the wake of d-day. I was young - 25 - and I dealt with all of this in a total vacuum. Not the way I would advise a man to handle something this traumatic, but for my 25 year-old mind it was not possible to share my pain and shame with anyone. All I could think was "what kind of man would hesitate divorcing his cheating wife? I figured my decision to stay would be ridiculed by every man on the planet so keeping it a secret was the only way I could go on. I tell you this because you seem much, much more mature than I was so you are better prepared to face this head-on and focus on your own personal recovery. Please, please don't make the mistake of thinking you can just swallow all of your feelings and hope that time alone will heal this wound. Time itself means nothing; it's what you do with that time. The fact that you are so analytical means that you are going to have to consciously push yourself to express your emotions. This is best accomplished in IC because you can tell your counselor this is something you need help with and they will indeed help you. I can't stress to you how difficult it can be to do this on your own so please find a counselor today. I know finding a counselor right now doesn't seem to address everything that is crashing in on your mind right now, but it really is the best way to begin fighting your way out. 1
Author Desrame Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 First of all I would like to extend my gratitude to everyone for your thoughts and voices. This community is truly amazing and if nothing else being a part of this community and gaining the ability to (hopefully) help others constructively is something i will be grateful to take away from this tragedy. With that being said, I never intend to even entertain the idea of the threesome. My integrity means everything to me, without it I would not be who I am. I was more curious what the reaction would be and I heavily agree that the main root is in good intention but would circumvent guilt on many levels and cheapen her chance for this to be a true catalyst for self reflection and growth. Not to mention complicating issues even further. Another thing that is on my mind is whether to classify her as a serial cheater or consider this as possibly a one time transgression. She was very young when it happened previously so I'm unsure which avenue to take. Time will tell I suppose. Harry mentioned that it is concerning how fast it progressed and I indubitably agree but it was also extremely fast for her to halt it as well which is hard to weigh since it obviously wasn't a ONS but about as close to as possible. I do believe in people's ability to change and I know it took me a DUI prior to meeting her for me to grow into who I am today. It took two years to realize that change but I see the same catalyst tendencies in her that I had. Maybe it is wishful thinking, maybe it is reality. As for D, I believe that is a forgone conclusion and in symbolic nature based on my value is necessary. After that time will tell if I feel like our relationship should be like a Phoenix and reborn from the ashes. Either way the old has to die completely and I need a very long time to even entertain that possibility. 1
Author Desrame Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 Wow - all the feelings and thoughts you have expressed are pretty much identical to how I felt in the wake of d-day. I was young - 25 - and I dealt with all of this in a total vacuum. Not the way I would advise a man to handle something this traumatic, but for my 25 year-old mind it was not possible to share my pain and shame with anyone. All I could think was "what kind of man would hesitate divorcing his cheating wife? I figured my decision to stay would be ridiculed by every man on the planet so keeping it a secret was the only way I could go on. I tell you this because you seem much, much more mature than I was so you are better prepared to face this head-on and focus on your own personal recovery. Please, please don't make the mistake of thinking you can just swallow all of your feelings and hope that time alone will heal this wound. Time itself means nothing; it's what you do with that time. The fact that you are so analytical means that you are going to have to consciously push yourself to express your emotions. This is best accomplished in IC because you can tell your counselor this is something you need help with and they will indeed help you. I can't stress to you how difficult it can be to do this on your own so please find a counselor today. I know finding a counselor right now doesn't seem to address everything that is crashing in on your mind right now, but it really is the best way to begin fighting your way out. I have been in IC for a while now and believe it will help me albeit not yet. As for expressing my emotions, I agree that it is difficult at times for me to do this but through journaling I am slowly finding out exactly what I feel and what cuts me deepest about this. I believe you are right and that I need to find a plethora of ways to constructively express and feel my emotions because I largely am dealing with this by masking it with indifference. Do you have any additional techniques or releases that enabled you to do this?
oldshirt Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Another thing that is on my mind is whether to classify her as a serial cheater or consider this as possibly a one time transgression. She was very young when it happened previously so I'm unsure which avenue to take. AT MINIMUM IT HAS ESTABLISHED A PRECIDENT AND GIVES CAUSE FOR A HIGHER INDEX OF SUSPICION. AS I SAID IN AN EARLIER POST, ANYONE CAN BE FAITHFUL WHEN THEIR PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP IS ALL ROSES AND SUNSHINE AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GOLDEN OPPORTUNITIES AND OFFERS ON THE TABLE. SHE HAS TWICE DEMONSTRATED HOW SHE BEHAVES WHEN OPPORTUNITIES ARE PRESENTED. CAN YOU GUARENTEE A FUTURE WHERE YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS ALL ROSES AND SUNSHINE AND SHE WON'T HAVE ANY OTHER GOOD OFFERS? Harry mentioned that it is concerning how fast it progressed and I indubitably agree but it was also extremely fast for her to halt it as well which is hard to weigh since it obviously wasn't a ONS but about as close to as possible. THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT AN ABERRANCY. SINGLE WOMEN REQUIRE WINING AND DINING AND DATING AND GETTING TO KNOW PEOPLE BEFORE ENTERING INTO SERIOUSLY RELATIONSHIPS. MARRIED WOMEN ACTUALLY CAN GO FROM 0-100 IN LITERALLY DAYS IF NOT EVEN HOURS. THEY ALREADY HAVE THE RING AND HOME AND FAMILY AND STATUS IN THE COMMUNITY. IF THEY ARE HAVING A CRAVING AND SOMEONE COMES ALONG THAT TRIPS THEIR TRIGGER AND THEY THINK THEY WON'T PAY A PRICE, THEY CAN AND WILL DROP THEIR DRAWERS IN A SINGLE NIGHT. SHE WAS PROBABLY JUST LOOKING FOR A LITTLE EXTRA THRILL AND SOME VALIDATION AND ATTENTION AND NOT A REPLACEMENT HUSBAND SO THAT IS WHY SHE DUMPED HIM SO QUICK. IT WAS A ONS, THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO GET IT COMPLETED THE FIRST TIME AND CAME BACK TO FINISH THE JOB. PEOPLE CAN MAKE THE ARGUEMENT THEY GOT "CARRIED AWAY" ON A ONE-NIGHTER. COMING BACK TO FINISH THE JOB SHOWS INTENT AND RATIONAL DECISION MAKING. As for D, I believe that is a forgone conclusion and in symbolic nature based on my value is necessary. After that time will tell if I feel like our relationship should be like a Phoenix and reborn from the ashes. Either way the old has to die completely and I need a very long time to even entertain that possibility. ITS OK IF IT TAKES MONTHS TO MAKE A STAY-OR-GO DECISION. ITS OK TO LET HER KNOW THE JURY MAY BE OUT ON THAT FOR AWHILE. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE ENOUGH TIME TO GATHER ALL THE FACTS AND MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IS USE IT TO MISTREAT OR MANIPULATE HER WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. My response capitalized to differentiate.
BetrayedH Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 As for D, I believe that is a forgone conclusion and in symbolic nature based on my value is necessary. After that time will tell if I feel like our relationship should be like a Phoenix and reborn from the ashes. Either way the old has to die completely and I need a very long time to even entertain that possibility. If your divorce is just symbolic, I suggest you don't get divorced. And if it's a foregone conclusion, then I hope you've told your wife as much. This may not sit well with some, but I can tell you that many a betrayed husband here would kill for a wife who is as remorseful as yours. You have every right to divorce yourself from a cheater but be careful that you don't give away that which you really don't want to lose. 3
sidney2718 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I have to disagree with this. Past behavior is a very good indicator of future behavior. Not just with cheating. I am not saying that "once a cheater, always a cheater" because I don't believe that to be true...but I do think that past behaviors in general are a good indicator of future behaviors. That may be, but if so, practically everyone here is in trouble. Most of the folks on LS have either been involved in an affair or were married to someone involved in an affair. If the past is a good indicator of future behavior, those here who have been involved in an affair will be involved again -- and those married to someone involved in an affair will find another affair prone person to marry.
sidney2718 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 If your divorce is just symbolic, I suggest you don't get divorced. And if it's a foregone conclusion, then I hope you've told your wife as much. This may not sit well with some, but I can tell you that many a betrayed husband here would kill for a wife who is as remorseful as yours. You have every right to divorce yourself from a cheater but be careful that you don't give away that which you really don't want to lose. I totally agree. My advice is also to look at those issues that made you less than a perfect husband. You alluded to some in your first post. And work on your communication with your wife. Last: listen to BetrayedH!
Fluttershy Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Past behavior is the only indicator of potential future behavior. Current behavior can simply be a reflection of current circumstances and can be faked altogether. Is easy for someone to faithful when things are going great at home and they don't have any other great opportunities knocking at their door at the moment. It's also easy to behave when you know you are on probation and being watched under the microscope. Looking at someone's past on how they behaved when they werent being watched like a hawk and had a golden opportunity fall in their lap is much more revealing. Continued current behaviour is still your best guess. What someone dis as a teenager is not an indicator of future behaviour. How a person responds and deals with things in the now shows i they have truly changed. And what lead to past behaviour and how it was dealt with is also more important than the past behaviour. A person who cheats on every person they are with and then you ask them why and they don't own it was their own doing and express a desire to work on what is broken is far different than someone who is. How I acted as a teenager and in my early twenties is far different than how I act now. So just dismissig someone based on a past action totally can make for some unfair assumptions.
BetrayedH Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So just dismissig someone based on a past action totally can make for some unfair assumptions. They might be fair assumptions but you wouldn't want to cut off your nose to spite your face. The real question is about who she is now, and that can take a long time to discern. Put simply, you don't know yet and we don't either. A truly remorseful wayward spouse will display "consistent actions over time." That's what you're really looking for. And you have to measure what degree of patience you have for that to play out, if you have any. It took me 8 1/2 months to come to the conclusion that my wife was still a liar and that that was a dealbreaker. Fluttershy was also wise to point out that a wayward that has learned their lesson may ultimately be a safer bet than you think out there. Divorce doesn't solve as much as we might hope. You're likely to be untrusting and hypervigilant from here on out. Who is a safe bet from here? 1
Author Desrame Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 For me I feel complete transparency is necessary and as such I have told her my intentions as well as thought process(es). It would not be fair to be anything but completely forthcoming to her. The last thing I want is to manipulate or further damage her. As for D, while I am not 100% sure right now, I feel it is a way to regain some manner of self respect but by no means signifies the end of us. For me it is facing the open truth honestly - that the old us must be killed off to begin anew. Time will tell on that whether it is 8.5 months like it was for BetrayedH or some completely alternate timeframe. She completely understands and is walking the remorseful path with eyes wide open. As for fluttershy's discussion about a fresh partner or a rehabilitated WS, I completely concur because a fresh partner is not guaranteed to be any more in tune with themselves or aware on the same level. However I do not have the experience to conclusively say for sure at this point. Thanks again for the advice and for guiding me to consider D in a different light (BetrayedH) as well as to explore the ways I could have been better (Sidney). 1
BetrayedH Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Last: listen to BetrayedH! I couldn't, in good conscience, "like" this post but I will say, thank you. Sadly, any wisdom I might have was garnered from making every mistake in the book. And even then, all of my best lines are stolen. Edited February 18, 2014 by BetrayedH
BetrayedH Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 ...the old us must be killed off to begin anew. This is probably the only line from your post that I question. I will grant that there is some conventional wisdom there. I'm not sure that I buy it. In my early days, a previous poster (Snowflower) discussed this exact subject with me and, as a successfully reconciled former BS, she said she never did buy into the 'old marriage is dead' concept. It sounds smart and witty and somewhat real and to some extent, I do believe that you have to be ok with being married to this new person that has been revealed. She's not who your hoped or thought she was. But I don't know that the old marriage really has to be considered dead and buried in order to move forward with a new marriage. This is really where perhaps more symbolic gestures can be made. For instance, some couples melt down their old rings and do a rededication ceremony with new ones (albeit, much further down the line). That sounds healthier to me (I'm still a bit of a hopeless romantic) than officially divorcing, only to keep the exclusive relationship going. Honestly, it's just my $.02. If you're going to forgive because she's done everything she can to prove herself truly remorseful, that's a beautiful thing. Divorcing her on principle seems like it is about your ego. Is there really anything about this that should tarnish your ego at this point?
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