So lost right now about our thing

[dashfinn]

Oh, this is such a mess. I am so confused about what to do. I try to make this short and to the point.

 

I met this girl from the other side of the planet last spring, a year ago, online. We went to an online class together. I felt there was some kind of connection, and we started to talk. She felt happy and full of life. She liked very much that I was humorous and creative, because I draw. We do have a 9 year age gap, I am older than her, and live very far from each other. I haven't thought much about the age gap, and it hasn't bothered me at all, nor her.

 

Last summer I travelled to Paris, and I kept in contact with her. Paris is one of her favorite cities. She had a boyfriend at the time, but I started to flirt with her. She ignored that for a moment.

 

At the end of the last summer, I briefly dated on girl back at home, but I didn't become any serious. We were incompatible. I still kept in contact with my long-distace friend, and talked about this dating with her too.

 

Then her relationship with her boyfriend started go bad. I was back home again, and texted to her that she should move with me to Paris. She said I was crazy, but later we found out that she liked my suggestion very much.

 

Toward the end of last year, I didn't contact her so frequently, and then she really started to approach me by texting. I took the bait, and flirted with her even more. I draw pictures to her at work, when she was asleep and send them to her, so she could she the drawing first thing when she waked up. She liked the drawings I did for her very much.

 

She was very insecure, and asked constantly did I have other girls here, or did I kept in contact with other girls online. I didn't do any of that, so I said and tried to assure I was only focusing and interested in her. At the end of the year, she finally broke up with her boyfriend and she vented about me that a lot.

 

At the beginning of this year, things started to turn weird. She confessed to me that she had sex early the previous year with another foreign guy from Europe, before she had met me and when before she started the relationship with her boyfriend. When she told me that, the foreign guy was there again. I want to say I wasn't jealous or worried, but I was. She regretted that she had sex with him, and felt that his friend was manipulating him by making her drunk and suggesting to have sex. The guy friend is very good looking, like a male model, and is a free soul, sleeps with lots of women when he travels for work around the world.

 

She sent me a picture, where the foreign guy was waking up in the morning, so I knew he was staying with her. Also, she sent me questions like: "Is it good when people tell you are like pornstar, when having sex, after sex, during the day?" She is very sexual, and likes wild, passionate sex very much, and says she is good at it.

 

At the same time, we started to talk more and more about seeing each other, and I started to think how I could fly there. At first we talked about meeting in Paris, or somewhere else in Europe. After a while, it came out that she can't leave the country. I think that was a bit misleading. She has financial problems, and can't leave her country before she has paid all her debts. She was without a job early this year, and I supported her to get a job, which she did.

 

Also, we have talked a lot via text, and I know it's bad. I never intended it happen, but it did. We have talked on Skype too sometimes. She is struggling with the physical distance, which is understandable. I felt like she was suffering from it, and I too wanted to meet her and start to close the distance.

 

At that time, a month ago, thinking afterwards, I started to get really tired with her insecurity. None of my comments or no re-assuring was enough for her. I didn't know what to do. The started to pressure me to go there, when it will happen and so on. I said I wasn't sure, but that we would meet soon. We also talked about our future. I suggested that I could sell my apartment. She refused and said, it would not be wise.

 

I am starting my own company now, so there's like a double pressure. To make a living, and to find a balance with this girl.

 

During this last couple weeks, this went really bad. She doesn't like when I have any alcohol. I went out and she asked me to stop talking to her. I snapped and removed her from my contacts, which yes, was stupid and childish. We talked about it and she said was crazy and that she would never do anything like that.

 

Shortly after that, we had another fight, I said "F U" to her and she took it as an extreme insult. She told me she thought I could never do anything like that to her, and that she considered letting go of me.

 

During these last days, we have exchanged emails, there has been silent treatment and feelings have gone cooler. I don't know what is happening. I still want her. I still think she is the most amazing girl.

 

We talked about these problems for very long during a couple of days, and decided that we want to try make things better. She pointed out many flaws in me, that I think very negatively, I take things too personally, I don't make her feel special, I doubt about her and think bad of her, that I'm always looking who is the guilty one, and I don't flirt with her anymore.

 

She said that she wants to keep in contact with me. I said to her I don't want to be friends, I only want her to be my girlfriend. She thought that was a bit extreme. She also say over-analyze everything, which might be very true.

 

At the same, I see that her insecurity damages us, and it has already ended her previous relationships. She says she needs to improve too, and put more effort in this. Still, I feel like she doesn't feel any responsibility of what happened, at that most of it was my fault.

 

She used to be so warm toward me. So gentle and loving. Today, she was distant, seemed bored. She said to me: "It's not my problem, if you are feeling bad. Talk to you when you are feeling happy." And I know it true. It's not her problem. But there's no empathy, no understanding, like there used to be. I don't know. Maybe she got tired too?

 

On valentine's day, she went out with her ex-boyfriend, with whom she broke up last year. She asked does it bother me, and I doesn't. Last night, she met with him again and they watched DVD's together. I do feel like she is reaching out to her friends for at least emotional support, which she doesn't try to get from me, not right now.

 

The thing is I have a plane tickets ready, dates ready and I'm flying there in a month. I will be staying there for two weeks, and she says that 2 weeks is almost like nothing. I think it's a first step, and it's good that we finally meet each other.

 

I balance between ending this all, cancelling the plane ticket and stopping communication with her. Moving on. On the other hand, I feel like people give up so easily on relationships, and even the good ones feel uncomfortable at times. But I feel like I have already messed up everything.

 

I know I need to improve, be more positive, sexy, decisive, direct, fun-loving, easy-going, calm, peacuful, wise and mature man. And I know I can be and I want to be. I just know that it's not gonna happen in one night. Maybe it's too late for us.

 

Please, if you have any thoughts, I would appreciate them immensely. I need your help. I feel like I am in deep ****.

 

Thanks and sorry for the novel-length of this.

Edited February 16, 2014 by dashfinn

[dashfinn]

Too long post?

[TAV]

Why do you think you have to improve yourself when she seems to be the one with the fidelity issues and sort of manipulating? You seem to be making something of your life and deserve someone more supportive/loving.

[dashfinn]

I noticed the manipulation as well, I have to say.

 

I wanted to show this to someone with a clearer mind & view, and hear any possible thoughts that could help me. Thanks TAV.

[dashfinn]

Update on the manipulation:

 

Today, she told me she dreamed about my friend, a guy, where he took her to a concert. In her dream they were having fun and he made her laugh. She also said the he looked big and was good-looking in the dream and had a great smile. She also thanked me in the dream for me introducing him to her.

 

After I heard this, I knew it was some sort of way to try and make me jealous. I didn't get jealous. I just said it was a pretty weird dream. And if she did it on purpose, that only means she craves my attention, and really wants me.

 

Anyways. Weird stuff.

[justwhoiam]

I try to make this short

Well, you need to try harder, because it didn't work.........

 

I met this girl from the other side of the planet

So, we know you live somewhere in Europe, but where does she live?

 

We do have a 9 year age gap, I am older than her

Ok. I consider that as a plus, as my man is around 9 years older than me, and I love it.

 

She confessed to me that she had sex early the previous year with another foreign guy from Europe, before she had met me and before she started the relationship with her boyfriend. When she told me that, the foreign guy was there again. I want to say I wasn't jealous or worried, but I was.

So you're hiding your true feelings. Why? Do you think it's wiser to act like a non-jealous suitor? Wrong.

 

She regretted that she had sex with him, and felt that his friend was manipulating him by making her drunk and suggesting to have sex.

How did you react to this?

 

she sent me questions like: "Is it good when people tell you are like pornstar, when having sex, after sex, during the day?"

What was your answer?

 

she can't leave the country. I think that was a bit misleading. She has financial problems, and can't leave her country before she has paid all her debts. She was without a job early this year, and I supported her to get a job, which she did.

I'd suggest a thorough check on her, to see if what she says is true. And to make sure her debts are what she claims they are. When you're unemployed, you get money from the state anyway, so how could she end up in debt? You need to check this. You need to know who she really is and if she wastes her money somehow.

Also:

1) How old is she?

2) Does she live on her own?

3) Do you have any information about her family?

 

She started to pressure me to go there, when it will happen and so on. I said I wasn't sure, but that we would meet soon.

You can't complain about her insecurities, if the only thing you can say is "I don't know... soon". Because clearly, hearing that day after day or week after week, when no real plans are being made, just screams "I'm trying to lead you on, until I make up my mind". So you can understand the tension it creates.

 

She doesn't like when I have any alcohol. I went out and she asked me to stop talking to her. I snapped and removed her from my contacts, which yes, was stupid and childish. We talked about it and she said was crazy and that she would never do anything like that.

Ok. I'd have an issue too, if my man started going out at night and drinking. I've seen people being drunk and I didn't like what I saw. The distance adds to the pain. So, well, I'm with her on this. And it was childish of you to try to get rid of her just because she was worrying about you. Nice way on your part to build a healthy relationship.

 

I said "F U" to her and she took it as an extreme insult. She told me she thought I could never do anything like that to her, and that she considered letting go of me.

That was extremely bad. I wouldn't take that from my man EVER. Even when things escalate between us, he never resorted to that with me. It's extremely negative and hateful. And you're not even together yet! I know this can be very conflicting, and causing lots of tension, but you need to watch your words with a lady, if you really love her. Do you? She needs to be treated with respect. Take out respect, and you have nothing, in a relationship.

 

there has been silent treatment

Men call it 'silent treatment', but that expression would be OK if she did that on purpose, like "You did this to me? Fine. I won't talk to you for X days, you deserve that". But usually, this is not the case. If she's not communicating, it might be because she's let down and her emotions prevent her from saying anything, or left not knowing what to do, or even being at a loss for words.

 

I feel like she doesn't feel any responsibility of what happened, at that most of it was my fault.

She can't take responsibility about you being foul-mouthed. There's no excuse for that. When you feel things are escalating and getting out of control, count up until 200 before saying anything, then, when you finally decide to say anything, make sure it's not an insult or a nasty word. Welcome the fact that she's not foul-mouthed. These days it's not easy to find a girl like that, it seems. Cherish that.

 

She said to me: "It's not my problem, if you are feeling bad. Talk to you when you are feeling happy." And I know it true. It's not her problem. But there's no empathy, no understanding, like there used to be. I don't know. Maybe she got tired too?

Her sentence was equally hurtful. But I don't know where it comes from. If you tried for days to imply that she had faults too and it was her causing the insult, she's obviously making a stand. It might very well be that she's trying to look tough. I know I did that, and turned cold on him after a fight, because I was dejected.

 

On valentine's day, she went out with her ex-boyfriend, with whom she broke up last year. She asked does it bother me, and I doesn't.

And you would want to qualify as a boyfriend? Sorry but this doesn't sound good to me. Your behavior simply told her: do whatever, I don't mind. Many girls would seriously doubt you are that interested in her. Sorry, but I'm not as openminded as you are, though I think I'm quite openminded. I want him to care about me and for me, and what kind of boyfriend would he be if he hasn't got a problem with me going out alone at night with my ex, with whom I've had sex with until a few months ago???!!! Give me a jealous man any day, please. I'm not talking obsessive or sick, but some jealousy is just healthy in a couple, unless they are swingers or something.

 

Last night, she met with him again and they watched DVD's together.

Why don't you send them popcorn to eat together?

 

I will be staying there for two weeks, and she says that 2 weeks is almost like nothing. I think it's a first step, and it's good that we finally meet each other.

I guess she's very p off and that means she can get bothered with anything very easily. 2 weeks is quite good for a first meeting.

 

I balance between ending this all, cancelling the plane ticket and stopping communication with her. Moving on.

This will be your chance to show if you have b, ehm testicles.

 

Maybe it's too late for us.

Ah... I think you'd obtain more if you were a so-called alpha male. Not by being a jerk, just being more assertive. But you can't be that being insecure. And no matter what you say, she'll sense it. Edited February 17, 2014 by justwhoiam

[cedes121]

she is being immature. it seems like she is just messing with your feelings. you need someone who is going to be supportive, loving, and not so bitchy. it is like she is a little kid.

[ExpatInItaly]

She's manipulative, immature and attention-seeking. Not attractive qualities.

 

Why can't she leave her country? That sounds fishy to me.

 

The bottom line is that you don't really know this girl. She's quite clearly got a boat-load of emotional issues. I don't see why you think it's a good use of your time to continue being in touch. What you have is not a relationship.

[dashfinn]

So you're hiding your true feelings. Why? Do you think it's wiser to act like a non-jealous suitor? Wrong.

 

Did I hide my feelings? I told about them to her; I told openly and honestly that I don't like that, and it makes me wonder what they are doing.

 

How did you react to this?

 

Agreed with her, he's a manipulator. I know the type of this guy. Full on trying to get external sexual validation from women in order to feel himself as a man, and as a pretty boy he gets it easily from women. He voluntarily poisons his mind, because it's easy for him. Many guys fall for this. Ever heard guys bragging about how many women they've slept with or managed to hit on?

 

What was your answer?

 

I said those people are trying to give a compliment. She said it is probably true: she can do things most girls can't in bed. She liked that other people have complimented her sex skills. People have asked her to porn videos with her.

 

You can't complain about her insecurities, if the only thing you can say is "I don't know... soon". Because clearly, hearing that day after day or week after week, when no real plans are being made, just screams "I'm trying to lead you on, until I make up my mind". So you can understand the tension it creates.

 

I understand you point. But I do have a plan now, plane tickets, and everything ready.

 

Nice way on your part to build a healthy relationship.

 

Really?

 

Take out respect, and you have nothing, in a relationship.

 

This is true. I ****ed up, and I owned it. I apologized for it. I knew it was wrong. And I wanted to move on after that.

 

Men call it 'silent treatment'

 

Who said only she gave the silent treatment? Both of us did that.

 

She can't take responsibility about you being foul-mouthed.

 

This is not only about being foul-mouthed. So are you suggesting she didn't have anything to do with this long-distance relationship? I was alone then in this, right?

 

I know I did that, and turned cold on him after a fight, because I was dejected.

 

Nice way on your part to build a healthy relationship.

 

Your behavior simply told her: do whatever, I don't mind. Many girls would seriously doubt you are that interested in her.

 

I have a completely different view about this. She is free to make her own choices as I am. I understand what you are pointing out is that she feels: "Oh! He is jealous, so really he wants me!" where in reality jealousy is just comparison and mistrust. A little comparison and mistrust is good? You are also talking about human behavioral biology; female sexuality is in it's core narcissistic, the desire to be desired.

 

 

Also:

1) How old is she?

2) Does she live on her own?

3) Do you have any information about her family?

 

1) 23

2) Yes

3) Yes I do

 

Why don't you send them popcorn to eat together?

 

I could not find any delivery service that does this. I sent peanuts. They loved them.

 

This will be your chance to show if you have b, ehm testicles.

 

That sounds kind of cute. Silly girl, you don't define me as a man . At all. Period. If you have nothing else to say, stay out of this. You've said enough. But hey, thanks.

 

Ah... I think you'd obtain more if you were a so-called alpha male. Not by being a jerk, just being more assertive. But you can't be that being insecure. And no matter what you say, she'll sense it.

 

Since you know, please tell me my insecurities. Then tell me how you feel someone being an so-called alpha male.

[dashfinn]

So, we know you live somewhere in Europe, but where does she live?

 

South America

[justwhoiam]

I had fun reading a couple of your answers

They made me laugh.

 

Now, your message is a bit conflicting. Are you interested in knowing what I think or should I stay out of your thread?

[dashfinn]

Are you interested in knowing what I think or should I stay out of your thread?

 

I'm the guy who let's the girl do whatever she wants. Maybe you are able to make your own decisions and not ask permission from me.

[justwhoiam]

I'm the guy who let's the girl do whatever she wants. Maybe you are able to make your own decisions and not ask permission from me.

:laugh::laugh:

 

Ok, you have some sense of humor.

 

I decided I won't say anything else, unless you ask me to.

[dashfinn]

Ok, you have some sense of humor.

 

Yes. I read from my Ultimate Mega-Alpha Male Guide™ that chicks like humor.

[dashfinn]

I decided I won't say anything else, unless you ask me to.

 

Okay. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

[dashfinn]

cedes121, TAV and ExpatInItaly: thanks for all of your responses!

[justwhoiam]

Okay. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

Hi, OK.

 

1) You wrote "I want to say I wasn't jealous or worried, but I was." So yes, you were hiding your real feelings in front of her.

 

2) People compliment her sex skills. That doesn't sound good news to me. Sex should be something intimate, not something to brag about. Also, "people" sounds rather generic. If you ask me, resembling a porn star is not a compliment. You should ask guys, though. If you say that a girl is like a porn star, are you paying a compliment? Or does it bring also negative aspects into the picture?

That said, the question was even more specific, they say it during sex, after sex and generally throughout the day, hence all the time. She is seeing and talking to men who are around her mainly for the sex. Food for thought.

Your reaction? You made it seem good and nice = a compliment.

Again, I'm OK with that, but what's behind such comments for men? How do they really perceive it? And most of all, I'd like to ask men: Would you love your girlfriend to be told she's like a pornstar by men throughout the day? And what does she think about it? Does she feel like she accomplished something? And what's her reaction to those reiterated comments all the time? Does she smile and say thanks? Or?

 

3) You wrote "are you suggesting she didn't have anything to do with this long-distance relationship? I was alone then in this, right?" I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean "When something goes wrong, she's responsible too"? Or even "The fault is usually 50/50"? If so, well, I do think in a couple both can make mistakes. But I also firmly believe that males and females are generally different, statistically, in the way they approach and see things. A man shouldn't escalate things, ever. And bad words shouldn't fly here and there in anger, from both sides. I know you already regret saying the things you said, but that's not the problem. That's the symptom. If you really want to be in control of what happens in your relationship, you need to learn how not to escalate things. I know that you will hardly get that from a woman, so the better solution is for a man to learn how to deal with situations so that they don't escalate.

 

4) You can behave as the wise guy, who thinks people need to be free and everything. You can trust your girlfriend. But beware of the risks coming from that. You need the right balance in these situations. If she starts to go out alone with an ex at night, and cuddle on the couch... you can trust her how much you want, but you are not giving her the message: THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE. Or "that is not acceptable in my book". In short, you have no reaction whatsoever, and actually it looks like you are supporting that. Is that an act to show you're not jealous? Or you don't really care how close they get? That kind of situation, alone, at night, sharing intimate moments, could potentially rekindle the spark, or even, prompt him to make a move, after all she's alone, with physical needs, and you're far away and not making a big deal out of it... You don't mind...

Jealousy is not mistrust and comparison. Jealousy is about boundaries. It's about wanting exclusivity about a few things. If you don't care about exclusivity, then I agree with you. You don't need it. But if you demand exclusivity, then ask yourself why. After all (I'm trying to follow your reasoning), who cares if she has sex with you? You know your value and how good you are, and it shouldn't bother you if she has sex with other men. Now you think about everything and draw your own conclusions on what you want.

As a woman, I think that if a man doesn't mind me having sex with other men, I sort of lose respect for him and start minding my own business...

 

Now, my thoughts.

You have never met her. So, how can you be boyfriend and girlfriend? I think that meeting in person will take everything a step up. Then you will see what she's like. If she's a serial flirter, a nympho or whatever. If she's the kind of girl you can be with or who can endure, say, two years away from her boyfriend and still keep up her feelings and the relationship. If she needs constant reassurance about her sex skills, etc. Besides getting to know her personality better, you'll also see how she reacts to things in daily life and, most importantly, if there's chemistry between the two of you.

Until then, it's all up in the air, and it's hard demanding anything.

But I know that if I were in love with someone, I wouldn't be looking to go out alone with another guy. I'd rather see friends and hang out with them in group, or with my best friend.

[dashfinn]

justwhoiam,

 

I want to say that I am thankful of your response. I respect that you took time to reply to me in a such thoughtful way. No matter that we disagree or have different views on some things, I am thankful of your reply.

 

Your reply gives me food for thought, even though I don't share same views in everything as you. But this helps a lot, it really does.

 

Especially your closing paragraph about your thoughts. I'm on the same page with that.