Owl Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Contrary to what others might say, the age old adage "time heals all wounds" is not true at all. The passage of time may dull the sharpness of the pain and the clarity of the memory, but that's about it. It's what you do with that time that can make a difference. Do you have kids? I strongly believe that a man only attempt reconciliation if his WW is remorseful and willing to do anything to make it up to him and if there are young children involved. IMO, take away either one and reconciliation is just a painful waste of time. Drifter and I often disagree...sometimes pretty much opposite sides of the spectrum. So when he and I AGREE on something...that's probably worth noting. I completely agree with his post above. I don't know how 'young' the kids have to be for them to be a major factor in reconciliation, but I'd agree that they're usually a big part of the real motivation TO reconcile successfully. And he's totally right too...it's not time that heals the wounds, it's what you do with it that makes the difference. My wife and I were married about 17 years at the time of her EA...we're about 10 years past that point now, and happily reconciled. Whatever questions you may have...post 'em here, I'd be glad to offer whatever advice I can give. 3
katielee Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 "Do you have kids? I strongly believe that a man only attempt reconciliation if his WW is remorseful and willing to do anything to make it up to him and if there are young children involved. IMO, take away either one and reconciliation is just a painful waste of time." really? Our children are grown. So you would recommend to my husband that he should have thrown in the towel?
Owl Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 "Do you have kids? I strongly believe that a man only attempt reconciliation if his WW is remorseful and willing to do anything to make it up to him and if there are young children involved. IMO, take away either one and reconciliation is just a painful waste of time." really? Our children are grown. So you would recommend to my husband that he should have thrown in the towel? Nope. But I'd have realized that he'd likely have had lesser motivation than those that do have kids to try to reconcile and rebuild his marriage. No offense intended...just one of the 'factors' as I see it towards the odds of successful reconciliation. It doesn't mean that reconciliation is impossible if there are no kids...not at all... I realize you'd asked the question of Drifter as you'd quoted his post...but since I'd supported his viewpoint, I thought I'd respond with my own.
tired girl Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 that a man only attempt reconciliation if his WW is remorseful and willing to do anything to make it up to him He also said this. And I believe that this goes a long way towards a man deciding on what he is going to do regarding reconciliation. 2
drifter777 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Mort Fertel has some interesting approaches to improving a marriage after an infidelity ocurrs, worth reading through: A woman who just discovered that her husband cheated on her for many years recently asked me a great question. She said, "My husband apologized 100 times, stopped his affair, and is committed to being a new man. I see he's changed. But wouldn't I be better off divorcing him and starting fresh with someone new?" I can understand her point of view. Right now in her marriage there's so much pain, baggage, and a mountain of hurt to heal. The same is probably true in your marriage, whether the issue is infidelity or something else. Is it possible to come back once the trust is broken? can you heal from your ordeal? Or maybe it just makes sense to just start over with someone else? Most victims of infidelity believe that they'll be safer in a relationship with someone who never cheated on them or hurt them. I completely understand this FEELING. However, the OPPOSITE might be true. In the case of the woman above, it appears that her husband really changed. And I've seen many people transform themselves after getting the "I want a divorce" wake up call. Unless her husband is a pathological liar or a sociopath, he's LESS LIKELY to make the same mistake again compared to someone whose track record is clean. In other words, once a spouse learns their lesson, they're LESS vulnerable to make the same mistake than someone who's never erred in that way before. According to a 1998 survey by researchers at the University of Chicago, about 25 percent of married men and 17 percent of married women in the United States ADMIT to having been unfaithful. The noted author Shirley Glass' research suggests it is probably closer to 25 percent of women and 40 to 50 percent of men! That means that starting from scratch gives the above woman a 50% chance of finding another husband who will be faithful. Now let me ask you at this point in this woman's husband's life, given all he's been through and learned, what are the chances that he'll screw up again? If this woman gave him another chance, what's the likelihood that he'd make the same mistake that almost caused him to lose his family years before? In my opinion, it's dramatically less than 50%. In fact, I think it's slim to none. Let me clarify that I'm talking in this case about a man who truly transformed himself and succeeded to prove that he's changed. I'm NOT talking about someone who continually makes empty promises. Here lies an unfortunate irony. People wait years and years for their spouse to wake up and change their ways. Then when they finally do it, they're told it's too late. I understand why someone would feel, after being cheated on, for example, that "it's too late." But the fact of the matter is that they're about to walk away from a person who is FINALLY prepared to be a wonderful loving spouse. In my experience, it's these people, people who have made serious mistakes, people who have had the harshest wake up calls, who become the BEST spouses and are capable, more than anyone else, of forging the MOST fulfilling relationships. Oh boy, I can't wait for my wife to cheat again so I will have a near-perfect partner! What you say here might be statistically correct, but I don't live in a laboratory. Here in the real world there are deep emotional responses to being lied to, betrayed, and humiliated. Include that in your algorithm and see what answers you get. Don't spout statistics to a man whose wife has been screwing another man. They mean nothing relating to an individual case. 2
drifter777 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 "Do you have kids? I strongly believe that a man only attempt reconciliation if his WW is remorseful and willing to do anything to make it up to him and if there are young children involved. IMO, take away either one and reconciliation is just a painful waste of time." really? Our children are grown. So you would recommend to my husband that he should have thrown in the towel? I'm entitled to my opinion and its based on experience - personal and ootherwse. Yes, my advice to you would have been divorce.
katielee Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 "I understand why someone would feel, after being cheated on, for example, that "it's too late." But the fact of the matter is that they're about to walk away from a person who is FINALLY prepared to be a wonderful loving spouse. In my experience, it's these people, people who have made serious mistakes, people who have had the harshest wake up calls, who become the BEST spouses and are capable, more than anyone else, of forging the MOST fulfilling relationships." I Do agree with this, after the WS finally gets it. They say it's a race for the WS to get it before the BS runs out of patience. IF this process has taught me anything it's that marriages need to be nurtured, taken care of EVERY day! If you want it to be the most important thing in your life then act as if it is... sadly, that is sometimes too late for the spouses in the marriage. 6
drifter777 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 I have to say again that I could not reject this theory that a WS makes a better partner than a new person stronger.Our lives are dominated by emotion even if you fancy yourself an intellectual.
nabelp Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) My wife and I will be married 24 years this May. I found out this past October that she had an affair 13 years ago. I was devastated but willing to give her another chance. Its been 114 days for me already and I have finally got the mental images out of my head and am getting over things. She has changed completely to the good. Edited February 20, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
compulsivedancer Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Oh boy, I can't wait for my wife to cheat again so I will have a near-perfect partner! What you say here might be statistically correct, but I don't live in a laboratory. Here in the real world there are deep emotional responses to being lied to, betrayed, and humiliated. Include that in your algorithm and see what answers you get. Don't spout statistics to a man whose wife has been screwing another man. They mean nothing relating to an individual case. But your wife wasn't remorseful. So of course your journey will be different.
compulsivedancer Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 "I understand why someone would feel, after being cheated on, for example, that "it's too late." But the fact of the matter is that they're about to walk away from a person who is FINALLY prepared to be a wonderful loving spouse. In my experience, it's these people, people who have made serious mistakes, people who have had the harshest wake up calls, who become the BEST spouses and are capable, more than anyone else, of forging the MOST fulfilling relationships." I Do agree with this, after the WS finally gets it. They say it's a race for the WS to get it before the BS runs out of patience. IF this process has taught me anything it's that marriages need to be nurtured, taken care of EVERY day! If you want it to be the most important thing in your life then act as if it is... sadly, that is sometimes too late for the spouses in the marriage. H says that, ironically, I am finally the wife he always wanted. He knew I was lacking in a few areas, but he loved me so much that he had his blinders on. But he was always aware that I "didn't love him the way he loved me." What he didn't realize is the difference he felt was that I hadn't really committed to him, and in fact, due to FOO issues, did not really know what true commitment looked like. He says he can feel the difference now in the way I love him. It's a bittersweet thing. I wish it didn't take something so traumatic to make me change. But now that I have changed, I wouldn't want to go back to who I wS before. 2
experiencethedevine Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I have to say again that I could not reject this theory that a WS makes a better partner than a new person stronger.Our lives are dominated by emotion even if you fancy yourself an intellectual. I always appreciate and enjoy the frankness of your posting drifter, no frilly sideshow or embellishment, just good old fashioned honesty, which is what we all wanted in the first place is it not? May I politely ask if you might be particularly prickly today though? No offence intended. 1
HermioneG Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 My spouse's 3 year affair ended 5 years ago, and we have been married 20 years. We are reconciled, and happy, and the broken bits are not broken anymore. It sounds cheesy, but there's Japanese pottery that is mended together with gold, and it represents the strength and beauty of something that may be less than perfect ( and yes, nothing is truly perfect), but was fought for with love and devotion. I think that's us. 6
drifter777 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I always appreciate and enjoy the frankness of your posting drifter, no frilly sideshow or embellishment, just good old fashioned honesty, which is what we all wanted in the first place is it not? May I politely ask if you might be particularly prickly today though? No offence intended. When I read something as ridicules as "a WS makes a better partner because they have their cheating out of the way" - or words to that effect - it makes me sick. It doesn't pass any logical or emotional sniff test, and I know that statistics are easy to bend into perverted conclusions. If it helps a BS justify burying their emotions and live in denial and that's what they want - fine. No BS truly working on their own recovery, whether attempting to reconcile or not, would buy this idiotic notion. I would suggest that a WS is more likely to cheat again since they have proven that they are the kind of person who would do such a thing. I think a reconciled WS is even more likely to be a repeat offender since they got away with it before. Statistics could never prove this because people lie about infidelity, but both my logic and gut feeling tells me this is true.
not-so-sure Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 When I read something as ridicules as "a WS makes a better partner because they have their cheating out of the way" - or words to that effect - it makes me sick. It doesn't pass any logical or emotional sniff test, and I know that statistics are easy to bend into perverted conclusions. When you put it that way, you're right. But that's your interpretation of the argument. If a partner is truly remorseful then I see no reason why they can't be a better person and partner. For some reason, there's the idea that infidelity is one thing that a person simply cannot learn from. I learned a lot of things about myself. Not many of them positive. But every day I work to be a better partner and lover to my wife. If it helps a BS justify burying their emotions and live in denial and that's what they want - fine. No BS truly working on their own recovery, whether attempting to reconcile or not, would buy this idiotic notion. Trust is another thing entirely. I can't fix that for my wife other than to show repeatedly that I can be trusted. I would suggest that a WS is more likely to cheat again since they have proven that they are the kind of person who would do such a thing. I think a reconciled WS is even more likely to be a repeat offender since they got away with it before. Statistics could never prove this because people lie about infidelity, but both my logic and gut feeling tells me this is true. 3
Owl Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 When I read something as ridicules as "a WS makes a better partner because they have their cheating out of the way" - or words to that effect - it makes me sick. It doesn't pass any logical or emotional sniff test, and I know that statistics are easy to bend into perverted conclusions. If it helps a BS justify burying their emotions and live in denial and that's what they want - fine. No BS truly working on their own recovery, whether attempting to reconcile or not, would buy this idiotic notion. I would suggest that a WS is more likely to cheat again since they have proven that they are the kind of person who would do such a thing. I think a reconciled WS is even more likely to be a repeat offender since they got away with it before. Statistics could never prove this because people lie about infidelity, but both my logic and gut feeling tells me this is true. Drifter, your view doesn't take one thing into account. All WS's don't get away "scott free". Granted, some do. And those would absolutely remain a risk as you've outlined. But there are those that suffered as a result of their actions and decisions too. Those that actually saw their spouse suffer, and realized their role in causing that pain. Those that were hurt themselves by not having good boundaries, and end up feeling a ton of guilt and remorse for what they've done to themselves, their families, and their spouse. It's that last group that can POTENTIALLY be a good mate, given the painful lessons they've learned. Pain brings change for many people. Those that get away without suffering any 'pain'...such as your wife...indeed aren't likely to be a good bet. They remain a bigger risk, especially since they never appear to have learned anything. Those that do indeed 'pay a price' emotionally, often can learn from it, and become 'relationship material' as a result. I understand your viewpoint...I just don't think that it takes into account that pain is typically the biggest motivator for change for most people. 6
drifter777 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Drifter, your view doesn't take one thing into account. All WS's don't get away "scott free". Granted, some do. And those would absolutely remain a risk as you've outlined. But there are those that suffered as a result of their actions and decisions too. Those that actually saw their spouse suffer, and realized their role in causing that pain. Those that were hurt themselves by not having good boundaries, and end up feeling a ton of guilt and remorse for what they've done to themselves, their families, and their spouse. It's that last group that can POTENTIALLY be a good mate, given the painful lessons they've learned. Pain brings change for many people. Those that get away without suffering any 'pain'...such as your wife...indeed aren't likely to be a good bet. They remain a bigger risk, especially since they never appear to have learned anything. Those that do indeed 'pay a price' emotionally, often can learn from it, and become 'relationship material' as a result. I understand your viewpoint...I just don't think that it takes into account that pain is typically the biggest motivator for change for most people. If a BS reconciles with their WS then just how much pain did the WS endure? Having their BS spit in their face and kick them out or walk away themselves is pain in my book.
anne1707 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 If a BS reconciles with their WS then just how much pain did the WS endure? Having their BS spit in their face and kick them out or walk away themselves is pain in my book. I can promise you Drifter that a remorseful WS does feel pain even after a successful reconciliation. I still remember things now and then that hurt to my core. However I also know that for a healthy and happy life that I cannot hang on to that pain. Learn from it, yes. But not live in it. I so wish you could move on. I don't mean to sound patronising but I feel so sorry for both you and your wife. You have not (IMO) fully reconciled and your pain is clear for all to see. 6
Arvin_Solheim Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I cheated in all of my relationships and no surprise that all of them eventually went to hell; in my current relationship I cheated once and my girlfriend found out- it was a year into the relationship; I did amazing things to win her back and did whatever I could to make her forgive me, I don't think she ever will because anytime we have a fight she brings up the subject but we've made it work....(let other details be left alone) but there is one thing I've learned; is that when you cheat in a relationship and then the other person forgives you, you will be living in the constant state of fear that they will do the same to you....that is simply terrible.
compulsivedancer Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 My spouse's 3 year affair ended 5 years ago, and we have been married 20 years. We are reconciled, and happy, and the broken bits are not broken anymore. It sounds cheesy, but there's Japanese pottery that is mended together with gold, and it represents the strength and beauty of something that may be less than perfect ( and yes, nothing is truly perfect), but was fought for with love and devotion. I think that's us. Using a mirror as an analogy for marriage, I told H that I didn't want to try to put the mirror back together, because the pieces will never quite fit and it will always be a broken mirror. Instead, I wanted to take the pieces and make a mosaic, used old elements and new elements to rebuild into something beautiful. 3
Scott0310 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Although my two cents probably dont belong in here, I'm going to post it anyway lol. My wife and I are currently separated, during this 8 week separation she had a fling/affair if you will. Met the guy as we split up, she just wanted a friend, someone to talk to without all the BS that we had together. I'm guessing due to the nature of him not being who I was, she fell for him quick (rebound?) and slept with him once. That was first week of Feb, her and I have talked kinda about it and I have told her that I dont care, I've moved past it (I'm actually more at fault for our separation although I never cheated) as I am also trying to win my wife's heart back by "changing" who I was in the past. I can tell you right now that I can let it go although I wont forget about it, and only hope that somehow this makes our marriage better as so many have already stated that often when a spouse ****s up, and asks for a second chance, they are likely to NOT make the same mistake again, thus resulting in often a marriage that can flourish.
road Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Although my two cents probably dont belong in here, I'm going to post it anyway lol. My wife and I are currently separated, during this 8 week separation she had a fling/affair if you will. Met the guy as we split up, she just wanted a friend, someone to talk to without all the BS that we had together. I'm guessing due to the nature of him not being who I was, she fell for him quick (rebound?) and slept with him once. That was first week of Feb, her and I have talked kinda about it and I have told her that I dont care, I've moved past it (I'm actually more at fault for our separation although I never cheated) as I am also trying to win my wife's heart back by "changing" who I was in the past. I can tell you right now that I can let it go although I wont forget about it, and only hope that somehow this makes our marriage better as so many have already stated that often when a spouse ****s up, and asks for a second chance, they are likely to NOT make the same mistake again, thus resulting in often a marriage that can flourish. My $.02. WW do not want a separation unless they have a replacement lined up. Your WW was in an EA at the minimum before she got you to move out so you would be out of the way for her to have/continue the PA. 1
katielee Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Scott - I'm sorry you are here. You have just begun your journey. Don't be surprised if raging anger hits you soon. 1
bosunmate Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Take it one day at a time and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. But it takes time and the journey is long with lots of twists and turns. But there are many couples here who have made that journey and survived, its not easy and takes lots of work by both of you...Good Luck
thummper Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Look up Mr. and Mrs. John Adams. They've been reconciled for thirty years. Great couple to emulate.
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