Infidelity and the older children............

[Steadfast]

Infidelity is a very personal matter not for kids. At least not my kids or anyone else to know or pass judgment.

 

Agreed. Some people will talk about it to anyone who will listen. Some people can't tell the kids fast enough, just to 'get the ball rolling'.

 

My ex assumed I would do this. Then again, she had 'made' me into a certain kind of person in her head...to justify her actions I suppose. I did not and would not tell my kids what she had done, even months after she'd moved out. My daughter came to the point where she demanded an explanation, saying she had a right to know why her family was split. I explained she did know; because her mom had left. Beyond that, I told her it was none of her business. She didn't like that, believe me. Not at all.

 

The ex finally gave in and told them one night when she took them to dinner. Her words to me upon their return? "You bastard." She also told them she had a 'change of heart' and wanted me to move out so she could live with them. When she pitched this to them, they refused.

 

Advantage: truth and motivation, even if these days my (now grown) daughter sees her mom much more than she sees me because I moved.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Steadfast

[georgia girl]

Infidelity is a very personal matter not for kids. At least not my kids or anyone else to know or pass judgment.

 

The parties involved can handle it and seek the help they need to fix or end it.

 

And even if I did decide to divorce I would not disclose the reasons. It's no ones business.

 

I agree, but I would caution you. My parents did just about everything two people could do to keep us from finding out. It didn't matter. The ow called the house. A friend'a daughter was told by a classmate. A coworker found out when she walked in on her parents arguing.

 

Simply saying a kid shouldn't know - and I absolutely agree - doesn't mean they probably won't find out.

[MuddyFootprints]

Some kids will do everything they can to discover why their family is destructing. I betrayed my kids, too. My oldest went into betrayed spouse sleuth mode.

[PoopHappens]

Infidelity is a very personal matter not for kids. At least not my kids or anyone else to know or pass judgment.

 

The parties involved can handle it and seek the help they need to fix or end it.

 

And even if I did decide to divorce I would not disclose the reasons. It's no ones business.

I think though, children often see their parents as a unit, and when someone does something to destroy that unit, it's hard for them not to notice. They often see a badly hurt parent and it becomes nigh impossible for them, or others for that matter, not to pass judgment. Of course it's not for kids but family is for kids and since the A has altered that significantly it can't help but involve the kids. It's a sewer and they are downstream.

[jnel921]

I agree, but I would caution you. My parents did just about everything two people could do to keep us from finding out. It didn't matter. The ow called the house. A friend'a daughter was told by a classmate. A coworker found out when she walked in on her parents arguing.

 

Simply saying a kid shouldn't know - and I absolutely agree - doesn't mean they probably won't find out.

 

My H and I had these conversations when our kids weren't home or we would drive to another location. We were very emotional and even when we went to MC they didn't know. They thought we were having dinner. They knew we had some fights but not the extent. They didn't need to go thru the same hurts that I was. Besides they wouldn't.

 

If someone chooses to tell the world, I would advise that they are doing this as they don't plan to R. Once your business is in the street there is no cleaning it up. People will always have an opinion and pass judgement. If you R you may lose friends and family. So not worth it. I know it's tough and we all need to vent. But places like LS where you have many people here to support you and give sound advice and who are not directly involved in your life is a better way of handling things.

 

My first M was a mess because I chose to disclose. Big mistake and never again!

[Steadfast]

I agree, but I would caution you. My parents did just about everything two people could do to keep us from finding out. It didn't matter. The ow called the house. A friend'a daughter was told by a classmate. A coworker found out when she walked in on her parents arguing.

 

Simply saying a kid shouldn't know - and I absolutely agree - doesn't mean they probably won't find out.

 

Who said anything about them not knowing? I'm sure, no, positive my kids had it figured out. I'm also sure they heard gossip. The difference is they didn't hear it from me. I had the grenade in my hand so to speak, but I resisted the temptation of pulling the pin and doing some real damage.

 

The times were bad enough. What they remember now (and what has stayed with them) was our attempts as a family to normalize the situation and keep moving forward. There was no battle that forced them into a corner, or forced them to take sides. We tried hard to do what was right.

[rumbleseat]

I know it may go against conventional wisdom, but I am a firm beleiver that it can be used as a teaching moment, no matter ow old your kids may be.

 

If they find out about the cheating, both parents can sit down with them and explain, without going into too many details, what happened. The ws can explain that they made some mistakes, but they are taking responsibility by doing what they can to make up for them and they have learned a lot from what happened. The bs can let the kids know that while they were incredibly hurt, they are working with the ws to move forward and with time, things will get better.

 

Of course, this would work if the ws and bs choose to reconcile. If they are gong their separate ways, the conversation wold be different, but it could still be an opportunity to make the best out of a sad situation.

 

I do find it very sad when the ws is run down to the kids. I would hope this doens't happen very much, as part of who they are comes from the ws. Honesty is ideal, but it's likely best to temper that with some gentle tactfulness. Kids aren't stupid, and even when they are very young, they can be quite perceptive and know a whole lot more than some adults give them credit for.

[merrmeade]

Two psychologists told us the same thing, and most of it I heartily agree with:

1) The reason you have to tell them is because - duh - they already know! Whether they 'know,' as in feel something's going on, or really know is the same reason. It's awkward for them; they're left out of the story; someone else will tell them if you don't.

2) They do not need or want the details. It should be short with the outcome clear. They want the big picture and what you're doing about it - staying and trying to reconcile, moving out for a while, divorcing - whatever.

3) You tell them all together in a way that they won't need to gang up later and compare stories.

 

One psychologist even modeled the speech:

1) WS says the s/he had an inappropriate relationship with somone.

2) WS apologizes to BS and children.

3) WS and BS say what they are doing about it.

End.

 

This was a relief and made perfect sense to me. We did not pull it off so well, however, for several reasons - all our fault. Might as well continue numbering:

1) H did not really get it - why we were doing it - because he has never understood transparency. He actually freakin' lied at first and said he'd had an EA. I immediately corrected him and said it was a PA.

2) We'd already blown #3 above because one sibling already knew and the other two knew that she knew and asked her as soon as they walked out exactly what the PA had consisted of.

3) They all three looked at me when H had finished the "short and sweet" speech. I told them the "what we are doing about it" part.

 

I believe now that we had one more ingredient that we did not address: future relationship with the OW who was/is our sister-in-law, their aunt.

I deeply regret this and still contemplate writing it out, memorizing and telling them or sending it because I worry about being hurt again in the future, if or when she decides it's been long enough and convinces her children, who try to convince mine, that we should all be one big family again. I need for my kids to understand that this can never be possible, and I hope they support that fact - as does H. The reasons are basically: What happened was wrong (because of what they did and because they deceived everyone about it) and hurt me and both families. My pain was great and long-lasting. Reconciliation with their father was something I chose. I did not choose, need or want reconciliation with their aunt. To do so and try to bring our families together again would minimize, ridicule and deny what had been done to me and what I had gone through. It can never happen and that is not my choice or fault. To try and blame me for keeping our two families apart would be cruel.

 

Our kids are in their 30s. My brother's kids are in their 20s.

 

Also, H does not agree that I should do this. He thinks I should wait and see if things start going in this direction, see if she actually does this. I disagree with this because it is already happening. The cousins - hers and my brother's children - are already visiting. When we were still in my parents' home after dDay and they visited, I spoke to her and she was very jealous. Also, she obviously doesn't get it because she texted me last month when an uncle had died to invite me to stay at her house for the funeral! I was shocked and shaken but did not answer.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

Edited March 5, 2014 by merrmeade

[Spark1111]

Merrmeade, I think it is okay to tell her that while you and she cannot ever be friends, you will NOT do or say anything to hurt the relationship your children have with their cousins and aunt.....and that you hope she affords you and your children the same respect.

 

Period.

[2.50 a gallon]

My sister married my best friend. Our families were tight, in fact I knew him before my sister was born 3 years behind me. He and I graduated from the same high school in the same year. WE both got into the same trade, and even worked for a decade together, until I married and moved out of state.

By that time my two nieces were 16 and 11

 

After I moved away he began an affair with a co-worker, they got caught, and both my sister and the OW's H filed for divorce, and neither would consider R. They both got joint custody. My oldest niece refused to have anything to do with her father. A couple of years later she married and had my great nephew. Followed 3 years later with my great niece.

 

My youngest niece was badly affected by the divorce, and did not trust men. Though very good looking and having lots of offers, I only know of one guy who lasted past 3 dates. Most only got one shot. Over 20 years later she finally married. A very religious man, who insisted that she invited her father, whom she had had almost zero contact with.

 

 

At the wedding I had to introduce my great nephew now 18 years old to his grand father. My Ex BIL had been a 4 year letterman in high school, so was greatly saddened to find that his grandson had been a top 3 year starter for his high school football team, as he didn't know and had never been able to watch him play.

 

 

He knew absolutely nothing about the lives of his grand children. He eventually married the OW after their divorces. Her kids did the same as his kids and shut them out of their lives. They now own a small ranchette on the outskirts of town, and had a large pool put in, hoping some day their children would bring over their grand children. They also own several horses, including one older gentle horse they bought purposely for the day their grand children came by to ride. It has never happened. The wedding was five years ago, and there still is no contact between the families.

Edited March 6, 2014 by 2.50 a gallon

[merrmeade]

My sister married my best friend. Our families were tight, in fact I knew him before my sister was born 3 years behind me. He and I graduated from the same high school in the same year. WE both got into the same trade, and even worked for a decade together, until I married and moved out of state.

By that time my two nieces were 16 and 11

 

After I moved away he began an affair with a co-worker, they got caught, and both my sister and the OW's H filed for divorce, and neither would consider R. They both got joint custody. My oldest niece refused to have anything to do with her father. A couple of years later she married and had my great nephew. Followed 3 years later with my great niece.

 

My youngest niece was badly affected by the divorce, and did not trust men. Though very good looking and having lots of offers, I only know of one guy who lasted past 3 dates. Most only got one shot. Over 20 years later she finally married. A very religious man, who insisted that she invited her father, whom she had had almost zero contact with.

 

 

At the wedding I had to introduce my great nephew now 18 years old to his grand father. My Ex BIL had been a 4 year letterman in high school, so was greatly saddened to find that his grandson had been a top 3 year starter for his high school football team, as he didn't know and had never been able to watch him play.

 

 

He knew absolutely nothing about the lives of his grand children. He eventually married the OW after their divorces. Her kids did the same as his kids and shut them out of their lives. They now own a small ranchette on the outskirts of town, and had a large pool put in, hoping some day their children would bring over their grand children. They also own several horses, including one older gentle horse they bought purposely for the day their grand children came by to ride. It has never happened. The wedding was five years ago, and there still is no contact between the families.

 

Wow. That is such a sad story. How is such a thing prevented? It sounds like the piece of the story we're missing is somewhere in the middle of "they got caught, and both my sister and the OW's H filed for divorce, and neither would consider R. They both got joint custody. My oldest niece refused to have anything to do with her father." Maybe there was some serious craziness they witnessed? Maybe they got the story from only the mother and she biased them? Maybe they got no story at all? Maybe the WH just gave up? Maybe they saw/heard/knew too much of their mother's pain and/or bitterness to forgive him?

 

No way to guess and probably no rule for everybody. I know my grown kids' attitude toward their aunt, the OW in their father's A, was influenced by my words and actions. They were hurt on my behalf. It must be like that 100-fold for younger children at home, seeing a parent crushed. I've read here of couples who continue parenting their children together successfully post-D and BSs who compliment the WS's parenting. Must be very hard but this post makes me understand why it's worth it if there's any way to help children have healthy relationships with both parents.

[merrmeade]

My sister married my best friend. Our families were tight, in fact I knew him before my sister was born 3 years behind me. He and I graduated from the same high school in the same year. WE both got into the same trade, and even worked for a decade together, until I married and moved out of state.

By that time my two nieces were 16 and 11

 

After I moved away he began an affair with a co-worker, they got caught, and both my sister and the OW's H filed for divorce, and neither would consider R. They both got joint custody. My oldest niece refused to have anything to do with her father. A couple of years later she married and had my great nephew. Followed 3 years later with my great niece.

 

My youngest niece was badly affected by the divorce, and did not trust men. Though very good looking and having lots of offers, I only know of one guy who lasted past 3 dates. Most only got one shot. Over 20 years later she finally married. A very religious man, who insisted that she invited her father, whom she had had almost zero contact with.

 

 

At the wedding I had to introduce my great nephew now 18 years old to his grand father. My Ex BIL had been a 4 year letterman in high school, so was greatly saddened to find that his grandson had been a top 3 year starter for his high school football team, as he didn't know and had never been able to watch him play.

 

 

He knew absolutely nothing about the lives of his grand children. He eventually married the OW after their divorces. Her kids did the same as his kids and shut them out of their lives. They now own a small ranchette on the outskirts of town, and had a large pool put in, hoping some day their children would bring over their grand children. They also own several horses, including one older gentle horse they bought purposely for the day their grand children came by to ride. It has never happened. The wedding was five years ago, and there still is no contact between the families.

 

Wow. That is such a sad story. How is such a thing prevented? It sounds like the piece of the story we're missing is somewhere in the middle of "they got caught, and both my sister and the OW's H filed for divorce, and neither would consider R. They both got joint custody. My oldest niece refused to have anything to do with her father." Maybe there was some serious craziness they witnessed? Maybe they got the story from only the mother and she biased them? Maybe they got no story at all? Maybe the WH just gave up? Maybe they saw/heard/knew too much of their mother's pain and/or bitterness to forgive him?

 

No way to guess and probably no rule for everybody. I know my grown kids' attitude toward their aunt, the OW in their father's A, was influenced by my words and actions. They were hurt on my behalf. It must be like that 100-fold for younger children at home, seeing a parent crushed. I've read here of couples who continue parenting their children together successfully post-D and BSs who compliment the WS's parenting. Must be very hard but this post makes me understand why it's worth it if there's any way to help children have healthy relationships with both parents.

[2.50 a gallon]

mm

 

 

I do not know everything that went on behind the scenes. What I do know is that both of my nieces were really close to their dad, up until he cheated he was a great dad. The oldest niece turned her back to him almost immediately. Whether she influenced her younger sister, I can't say. All I know is that it took another two decades before she opened her heart enough to finally fall in love and marry.

 

 

I have been retired for several years. I have been around for quite some time. It has been my observation, that quite often the children, will turn on the cheating parent and shut them out of their lives.

[HermioneG]

mm

 

 

I do not know everything that went on behind the scenes. What I do know is that both of my nieces were really close to their dad, up until he cheated he was a great dad. The oldest niece turned her back to him almost immediately. Whether she influenced her younger sister, I can't say. All I know is that it took another two decades before she opened her heart enough to finally fall in love and marry.

 

 

I have been retired for several years. I have been around for quite some time. It has been my observation, that quite often the children, will turn on the cheating parent and shut them out of their lives.

 

That has also been my observation. I am not quite as old as you, but I have high mileage.

[janedoe67]

mm

 

 

I do not know everything that went on behind the scenes. What I do know is that both of my nieces were really close to their dad, up until he cheated he was a great dad. The oldest niece turned her back to him almost immediately. Whether she influenced her younger sister, I can't say. All I know is that it took another two decades before she opened her heart enough to finally fall in love and marry.

 

 

I have been retired for several years. I have been around for quite some time. It has been my observation, that quite often the children, will turn on the cheating parent and shut them out of their lives.

 

And you know, I guess in the beginning I can understand why a BS might think this is awesome, but I think if they TRULY want their spouse's child to hate them for the rest of their lives....that speaks to a flaw in the BS's character. Period.

[2.50 a gallon]

jd76

 

 

It is so easy to blame the betrayed spouse as the source of so much negativity from the children. But from my observation, in many of the cases, it is the children themselves that build up this resentment.

 

 

With my nieces, my sister tried to get them to reconcile with their father, but neither would listen. My Ex-BIL married the OW within 3 months of the D, and that had a large influence on they way my nieces looked at the picture. In their mind, it was their father and the OW who broke up their family, and they wanted nothing to do with them

 

 

I have some insight from both sides, as a year after I moved back to my home town, my Ex-BIL was hired to work at my place of employment. By that time my sister had moved on and remarried herself. And that too was part of the problem, as her second H, was a heck of a nice guy, and though they never called him father, you could tell that they saw him in that light. When my great nephew was born, he was given the title of grandpa, by my niece. As a favor to my sister, she invited my Ex-BIL to my nephews Christening, but was adamant, that his second wife was not to attend. And four years later when my great niece was born, she set the same rules.

 

 

My youngest niece went onto college, got her masters, and is now a elementary school teacher. She had several options, and we were surprised when she went back to school to get her teaching certificate. I suspect, that she realized her lack of trust in most men was at such a high level that she would probably never have a family of her own, and chose her career as her way to have a family.

[HermioneG]

And you know, I guess in the beginning I can understand why a BS might think this is awesome, but I think if they TRULY want their spouse's child to hate them for the rest of their lives....that speaks to a flaw in the BS's character. Period.

 

I am missing the part where the BS is the one who "made" the child feel this way towards the wayward parent?

 

 

It frustrates me- and speaks to a pattern, I have to say- where the wayward's own choices and natural repercussions are blamed on outside forces.

 

When at the end of the day? As Dumbledore would say "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

 

Wayward decisions have consequences. Sometimes those are ugly. They are not further the fault of the BS, in the vast majority of cases. In fact- a clearheaded wayward should recognize that their parenting resulted in their child having a strong moral center and sense of responsibility to family.

 

Affairs harm everyone. The betrayed, the children, and the wayward.