Infidelity and the older children............

[merrmeade]

Wow. I was really trying to work but am so impressed and inspired by this thread and what these posts reveal about people's character. I want to read more, too, because it's helping me with this particular issue and how to think about my grown kids' reactions to news of my H's affair.

 

One of the three already knew and had expressed various reactions - initially outrage on my behalf, then doubt about the relationship (whether it was really an affair), then a very firm demand to be treated as one of the children and confided in no more. She's my better half actually. The other two staggered a bit at the moment of disclosure but then immediately went into everything-is-normal state.

 

It bothered me a little for a while - selfishly - wishing for some of my daughter's indignation in her brothers, but I've seen enough since then to realize that they really and truly 'got it.' They understand and are grateful for how I handled it. They also need for me to do just what I'm doing – take care of their pitiful father and be near, as the mother and grandmother they needed and didn't have during the years I was living abroad and the affair festered.

 

I go by what they do, not what they say (except for Daughter):

• NONE of them want anything to do with SIL and barely respond when their cousins from that family contact them. They know it's hard for me.
  
• Oldest told his sister recently something like, Dad's still a dick (to them - or in general).
  
• The two times I said to oldest how really, really hard it's been for me, his response was just, just right. He's a good man and father.
  
• I realize now that the middle child is doing and getting just what he needs right now to make up for the years that I was not around enough and he could smell the detritus from the smoldering A. He assured his siblings (this breaks my heart), before they knew the truth, that he'd "been there" to make sure there was no opportunity for them (his aunt and dad), so I figure he must have felt pretty bad to find out they'd succeeded in getting 'round his chaperonage. What a sad little act of valor! So, what I see now is that he just needs to be a kid and have parents close and supportive for a while. That's all. No drama, no sacrifice - he already did that. And being able to be his mom is just great right now.
  
• Daughter, as said, is great. She said recently just enough that I know she fully understands all that was behind my choices to stay and then added, "I respect you."
  

 

What else can you want? THIS is why I stay.

Edited February 26, 2014 by merrmeade

[drifter777]

My children are adults and they do not know. His affair had nothing to do with them.

In my case my son was in kindergarten when my wife told me our marriage was over, I had to leave right now, and then moved some POS into my home. It lasted 2 weeks and my son was exposed to whatever it was they did in front of him. He was also exposed to daddy not living with him and mommy for that length of time. When she convinced me to come back home we never spoke of it in front of my son. Never. He is married with his own children now and I have no idea what he remembers of that time.

 

My wife's cheating "had nothing to do with him" other than confusing the crap out of him and, likely, frightening him for a while. Then it was all swept under the rug and it's likely he learned that this is how one faces difficult, painful situations; pretend they never happened and hide them from the kids.

 

Our other two kids were born a number of years later so were not exposed to it and we never spoke of it around them. As far as I know they don't have a clue.

 

I do not have a noble reason for not speaking of it with them - especially my oldest - such as it "because it had nothing to do with them". My reason is the shame I feel that their mother was a slut and I didn't divorce her for such disgusting, selfish, hurtful treatment. My wife has never told them because she knows how disgusting what she did really was and, most importantly, she doesn't have to.

[merrmeade]

In my case my son was in kindergarten when my wife told me our marriage was over, I had to leave right now, and then moved some POS into my home. It lasted 2 weeks and my son was exposed to whatever it was they did in front of him. He was also exposed to daddy not living with him and mommy for that length of time. When she convinced me to come back home we never spoke of it in front of my son. Never. He is married with his own children now and I have no idea what he remembers of that time.

 

My wife's cheating "had nothing to do with him" other than confusing the crap out of him and, likely, frightening him for a while. Then it was all swept under the rug and it's likely he learned that this is how one faces difficult, painful situations; pretend they never happened and hide them from the kids.

 

Our other two kids were born a number of years later so were not exposed to it and we never spoke of it around them. As far as I know they don't have a clue.

 

I do not have a noble reason for not speaking of it with them - especially my oldest - such as it "because it had nothing to do with them". My reason is the shame I feel that their mother was a slut and I didn't divorce her for such disgusting, selfish, hurtful treatment. My wife has never told them because she knows how disgusting what she did really was and, most importantly, she doesn't have to.

 

That's brave of you, drifter, but lots of us did it - just like that. It's why that little "I respect you" from my daughter meant SO much. Your son is an adult now with a family. I'm sure there's a lot more than rug-sweeping that he got out of it. He will figure out what it must have been like for you and what you did for him if he hasn't already. It's what we do as adults - realize why our parents made some of the choices they did and forgive, thank and finally release them from the burden of responsibility for who we are and want to become. There's something for everybody to do in that though to make it happen.

[rumbleseat]

My kids were quite young, but found out about his A in a very cicuitious way. They asked about it, and we both agreed that lying was not the answer. We sat them down and explained to them in very sin ple terms, what had happened, and my h took responsibility for his choices and actions.

 

The one thing I hope they took away from that was that we both love them and that people can make mistakes. Huge mistakes. The proof of one's character is how they take responsibility for them.

 

It sounds like, in the case of older children, they go through the grieving process. Maybe they are grieving for the loss of the family they thought they had? Of course, that family is still there, but I can see how a person could become very upset. After all, one of their parents, whom they love, has been sorely hurt by their other parent, whom they also love. It's not really a situation you can prepare for.

[gettingstronger]

My boys are 14 and 19 and "kind of" know- they don't know details but sadly they have witnessed the roller coaster that is reconciliation-we try to keep life as normal as possible but thats not always possible-

My older one has become very protective of me and my younger one just kind of drifts in and out-

Both are sad that our once stable and loving home at times is full of stress and tension-they are kind to their Dad but he says he can see in their eyes that he let them down-

We are hoping that in time we will all heal and move forward-

It kills my husband that he has done this to our family- he lives with it everyday-

[merrmeade]

My boys are 14 and 19 and "kind of" know- they don't know details but sadly they have witnessed the roller coaster that is reconciliation-we try to keep life as normal as possible but thats not always possible-

My older one has become very protective of me and my younger one just kind of drifts in and out-

Both are sad that our once stable and loving home at times is full of stress and tension-they are kind to their Dad but he says he can see in their eyes that he let them down-

We are hoping that in time we will all heal and move forward-

It kills my husband that he has done this to our family- he lives with it everyday-

 

It seems to me it's the very best sign of all. All of you accept that you have to walk this gamut of pain together - a pain he absolutely must have and deserves. What if you were going through it by yourself? I mean, think about it: The A is possible not only because the fog stuns WS brains, but also because their actions aren't causing any pain at the time of the A - precisely BECAUSE no one knows. Once the truth is out, the fog lifts and they see the world of Others (not just themselves) and they HAVE to face the pain they've caused and suffer.

 

He knows your pain, I hope, and now seeing your boys' pain as well he must suffer. He suffers not only because he loves them but also for the shame of his selfishness. He's wounded true innocents who did nothing but love and depend on their parents to protect them and each other. In the case of his kids, it's more than breaking their trust. Because of his actions, they must question things they never realized they'd taken for granted. For one thing, they have to worry about you. He did that.

 

More than that, it must be shared both ways this pain. Those of us they've hurt NEED to see that they suffer for the pain we feel. We need to be shown - without asking for it, without being told - that they SEE what they caused. The fact that you recognize and seem to love him for this seems to me what true R and a good marriage are all about. I am convinced that this pain shared, reflected and understood by a family is what leads to healing.

 

YOU have a good marriage worth saving, I think. I envy you. I'm probably more obnoxious because I'm standing back analyzing what I didn't experience but only imagine and crave. You have a husband with character. Just imagine that there are other WS's like mine who continue the rationalizations. They actually believe that their sacrifice is living with the shame of what they did so the BS and their family won't have to suffer. Almost funny, isn't it? It's cowardice and self-indulgence cloaked in bullsh-t and so a ONS becomes an A or it happens again with a different person, maybe years later. One and then another A becomes possible for three reasons: 1) they love pleasure and hate pain; 2) their spouses were too dumb and trusting to suspect them; 3) because of 1 and 2, they didn't really pay a consequence. Their shame wasn't quite enough apparently.

 

So I probably lost you in that last trip down the dark tunnel of the narcissist serial cheater's psyche which is NOT what you're dealing with. You're in the right place at the right time. No, you don't deserve it and neither the hell do your kids. All you can do is show them how unselfish, loving people face their mistakes, support each other and forgive. They will get through it and gain understanding and a whole new appreciation for you when they have families.

[gettingstronger]

merrmeade- Thank you for the kind words- I am heartbroken for you that you and your family are in the position you are- I can not for the life of me understand how anyone can devastate the ones that loved and trusted them and feel no sense of remorse, no need to heal the wounds, no need to redeem themselves-its not a reflection on you- that took a while for me to understand-I was hung up on why did I end up with a cheater, what did I do- was it karma, was it me, WTH was it- I finally learned it was him-his ability to take advantage of the good in me- sad and painful-

[merrmeade]

Oh, one more thing -

 

But first, I do apologize for monopolizing this forum and suddenly thought - yikes! is there a rule against this? is this thread-jacking? - If so, will somebody please tell me to shut up. I started reading this to know experience's story but have ended up working through some serious sh-t of my own, so I hope it's all right - just one more...

 

I didn't say the thing I started to in that previous post. It's such an incredible thing and tells you everything, sadly, about my H. It could be helpful to someone planning to tell their kids. But I doubt anyone is as clueless as this:

We decided to tell our kids after a few weeks of

MC

and because it's what you're "supposed" to do. My daughter was staying with us and already knew because I'd confided in her,

so

, when he told her, he knew that she already knew. Our middle son 'knew' because he'd suspected when he was with my

H

those years and I finally made

H

see this.

So

the only one who didn't really know was the oldest. Still, my daughter insisted they all be told at the same time,

so

they wouldn't try to find out more from her later (which they did anyway).

So

, before we told them and were talking about what to say, my

H

asked me if we couldn't figure out some way to say it

so

the oldest wouldn't be too disappointed in his father because, after all, we were talking about the rest of both their lives.

 

This is FOR REAL. And this, I guarantee, is NOT why I stay - unless you agree that it's like accepting responsibility for a mentally handicapped child.

Edited February 27, 2014 by merrmeade

[Got it]

I found out as a young adult. It really didn't impact me other then an eyebrow raised/aha moment. There may be a number of reasons for that.

 

1. they were already divorcing

2. the affair was from years prior

3. they had a bad marriage on both sides

4. I recognized well before that, because of number 2, that they were both quite human and erred . . . quite often. So there was no pedestal to fall from.

5. I was most annoyed that it happened so early into their marriage, less than 10 years, and was a major red flag that the marriage should have ended so long ago without the continuing years of crap they put us through.

6. I was most disappointed that my mom still went back. That obviously he was not who she truly wanted (this was with someone she was with prior) but fell back because of convenience and security I guess. Kind of in the big picture, just a lot of crap for what?

 

I had an epiphany moment one day in college, I remember it clearly (and prior to this information) that I finally realized/recognized/accepted that my parents were very human and quite similar to myself. That even with age there is not necessarily a great deal of knowledge, wisdom, or maturity that necessarily goes with that. And that I accepted that they did try and do the best they could, that they did have good intentions, but that doesn't mean that that outcome won't still be bad. At that point I made a major turning point in forgiving them of their transgressions and mistakes and accepted them as my parents in their totality. They are who they are and no amount of wishing would change that. They did some good things and some not so good things.

 

And they tried, no matter how cruddy it wasn't for a lack of trying/intention.

[waterwoman]

My eldest is 17. Was 15 at the time of dday. DD was 12 so probably not too aware. DS2 was 9 and only 'knew' that mum and dad were arguing a bit.

 

H was worried about them knowing. Mainly because he had been such a selfish arsehole to them for a few years - really moody and not affectionate. There would be no doubt about who how DS1 would have reacted, they were already locking horns as sons and fathers tend to at certain times. But we didn't tell them - I didn't want to poison their relationship any more than H did. The affair would simply have cemented the damage he had done to his relationship with them over the years.

 

Part of his problem with me was that I didn't prioritise him over the children - I didn't see that as neccessary, I thought we were all one unit and it was our main (H and mine) job to care for the children as a couple. I thought that was a good way for us to bond as a couple - he thought I should put him first. We have compromised on that since.

 

I don't think he knew how to be a father due to truly sad FOO issues - he was jealous of my relationship with the children as it is easy-going, openly affectionate and strong. He has to try really hard to be close to them - it warms my heart to see him trying and to see them responding.

[AjisenHi]

My sister's DD is 9 but only 7 when they split. Her Ex has a really short fuse and very bitter about the D ( his 2nd). My sis started seeing her MOM while still living with her H but they were living separate lives. It's was borderline abusive and I believe it was safer for her to get out before it got worse.

 

Her Ex had weekend custody and that worked on and off for over 18 months but my niece now doesn't want to see him anymore as he is always asking about my sister's MOM and using bad language and shouting when she is with him. BUT at the same time she loves her Dad and wants to see him but just can't face the bitterness and anger.She is told that when she is older that she will be shown photos of her mom and MOM.~~shakes head in disbelief ~~

 

My sister wants her DD to go back to the former arrangement. ( i haven't voiced it but I really think NC with this man is best till Niece is older ) DD hasn't seen her Dad in 5 months and she wants to see him but doesn't want to stay overnight. Her Ex only wants to see his daughter if HIS conditions are met. So it's a stalemate.

 

It's horrible for my niece who is acting out in school and gets very attached to people very quickly in a clinging way.

 

Today it's PTA at her school and she is afraid that her Dad will turn up too, so at the Dinner table ( my sis/DD/my family live together) she asked me whether she could go out to a dinner party that my H and DS were invited to tonight. Of course I said she was welcome and the look of relief that came across her face! Honestly, it broke my heart. She is only 9 but has gone through so much.

 

My niece has my H and my Bro as Uncle figures but she wants a DAD and she just wants someone who will be nice to her Mom and her. And I don't think sis's MOM is the one.

 

Sometimes, it leads to the question of balancing my Sis's needs and my Niece's....

[experiencethedevine]

My son, shortly after dday, had this to say to his Father:

 

 

"How could you pick up some trollop when you have my Mother? She is worth a thousand of women like the ***** you have been messing around with. I used to look up to you, wanted to be like you. I saw you as an honourable man and wanted you to be proud of me as I was of you. I followed in your footsteps. Now when I look at you I see a liar and a man who has no honour. I don't ever want to be like you, I will be better than that."

 

 

 

 

It broke my heart. For both of them............

[cocorico]

I found out as a young adult. It really didn't impact me other then an eyebrow raised/aha moment. There may be a number of reasons for that.

 

1. they were already divorcing

2. the affair was from years prior

3. they had a bad marriage on both sides

4. I recognized well before that, because of number 2, that they were both quite human and erred . . . quite often. So there was no pedestal to fall from.

5. I was most annoyed that it happened so early into their marriage, less than 10 years, and was a major red flag that the marriage should have ended so long ago without the continuing years of crap they put us through.

6. I was most disappointed that my mom still went back. That obviously he was not who she truly wanted (this was with someone she was with prior) but fell back because of convenience and security I guess. Kind of in the big picture, just a lot of crap for what?

 

I had an epiphany moment one day in college, I remember it clearly (and prior to this information) that I finally realized/recognized/accepted that my parents were very human and quite similar to myself. That even with age there is not necessarily a great deal of knowledge, wisdom, or maturity that necessarily goes with that. And that I accepted that they did try and do the best they could, that they did have good intentions, but that doesn't mean that that outcome won't still be bad. At that point I made a major turning point in forgiving them of their transgressions and mistakes and accepted them as my parents in their totality. They are who they are and no amount of wishing would change that. They did some good things and some not so good things.

 

And they tried, no matter how cruddy it wasn't for a lack of trying/intention.

 

Finding out about my father's A was also an "aha!" moment for me. It explained retrospectively why he had become so much more accessible at that time, so much lighter, like a real person instead of a ghost. In this case, though, it was right near the end of the M, an M which should have ended decades earlier, and was no doubt his last ditch attempt to stay long enough to see the youngest leave home.

[rumbleseat]

Finding out about my father's A was also an "aha!" moment for me. It explained retrospectively why he had become so much more accessible at that time, so much lighter, like a real person instead of a ghost. In this case, though, it was right near the end of the M, an M which should have ended decades earlier, and was no doubt his last ditch attempt to stay long enough to see the youngest leave home.

 

This is the type of situation I will never understand.

 

If one parent is in such abject misery in their marriage, if they are never around for their kids when they need them, if the kids are unhappy because they home life is unhappy and the parents till tries to make it work, then why stay? Why does it take an A to leave? Shouldn't seeing the kids so unhappy be reason enough?

[janedoe67]

This is the type of situation I will never understand.

 

If one parent is in such abject misery in their marriage, if they are never around for their kids when they need them, if the kids are unhappy because they home life is unhappy and the parents till tries to make it work, then why stay? Why does it take an A to leave? Shouldn't seeing the kids so unhappy be reason enough?

 

 

It's not always the WS who is not around for the kids.

[rumbleseat]

It's not always the WS who is not around for the kids.

 

 

That goes along with what I'm saying. If things are so bad, then why cheat in order to maintain the status quo? Wouldn't it be better to either fix things or leave?

 

I suppose that. in hindsight, it's easier to say that than it may feel in the moment, which I can understand. What I don 't understand is keeping both the m and the A, year after year, especially when the M is such an unhappy place for everyone to be.

[Got it]

This is the type of situation I will never understand.

 

If one parent is in such abject misery in their marriage, if they are never around for their kids when they need them, if the kids are unhappy because they home life is unhappy and the parents till tries to make it work, then why stay? Why does it take an A to leave? Shouldn't seeing the kids so unhappy be reason enough?

 

I agree. And this goes both ways as jane said. I have repeatedly asked my parents why they stayed in such an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage and my dad's reasoning is money and access to the kids, for the kids. My mom's is because it was better that way, money, and for the kids.

 

I think they both believe this to be true but I don't agree entirely. I know they both have some major FOO issues and comfort in the dysfunction that they had.

 

Who knows why people stay in the situations that they do. Maybe it is like the frog in the boiling water. I do believe that people are where they "want" to be. And no matter how dysfunctional there has to be some element of comfort/norm/security/fulfillment to continue in the cycle.

 

It is interesting because in discussing the past with them, they have both joked separately that I/the kids are making a bigger deal of the past then it was. Or they don't remember. That is what is so amazing to me, how much they have glossed over in their minds or forgotten certain events.

 

My mom and I were just talking about a trip she took with the kids when I was younger. She was talking about how much she liked the place, how we had fun, etc. I said, yeah I remember dad didn't go and you two were in a big fight. THAT is what I remember first about the trip, she remembers everything else.

[merrmeade]

Who knows why people stay in the situations that they do. Maybe it is like the frog in the boiling water. I do believe that people are where they "want" to be.

 

And no matter how dysfunctional there has to be some element of comfort/norm/security/fulfillment to continue in the cycle.

 

Your post was thought-provoking for me. It made me wonder about several things - first, how my kids remember our fighting because we certainly did. I mean, all couples fight, and they would talk about their friends' parents, especially the ones who finally got divorced because of it. I also remember my parents' scary fighting, which subsided when we left and in the end we made fun of how cheesy romantic they were all the time. So I'm going to see if ask my kids about this. I really don't know what they'll say - how much it marked their home experience.

 

Then, I thought about myself and in your statement - "people are where they 'want' to be" like "the frog in the boiling water," and THEN I thought that the expectations we end up with for ourselves are not entirely the fault/responsibility of our parents. I can see how your experience could leave you with a generous dose of cynicism. I don't think I want or deserve to be suffering. I have seen all kinds of relationships and know what I don't have. I'm pretty clear with myself about why I stay and that it's not because I'm being boiled alive. I think that's the difference - I know I'm not hurting him, and I know he can't hurt me any more. I know he knows my boundaries and that I'll remind him if he forgets. I know that he really does feel that he owes me something and wants to give it to me but needs help doing that. And I know that my kids are grateful and relieved that this was the outcome and respectful of what it took to get here. It's enough.

[Got it]

Your post was thought-provoking for me. It made me wonder about several things - first, how my kids remember our fighting because we certainly did. I mean, all couples fight, and they would talk about their friends' parents, especially the ones who finally got divorced because of it. I also remember my parents' scary fighting, which subsided when we left and in the end we made fun of how cheesy romantic they were all the time. So I'm going to see if ask my kids about this. I really don't know what they'll say - how much it marked their home experience.

 

Then, I thought about myself and in your statement - "people are where they 'want' to be" like "the frog in the boiling water," and THEN I thought that the expectations we end up with for ourselves are not entirely the fault/responsibility of our parents. I can see how your experience could leave you with a generous dose of cynicism. I don't think I want or deserve to be suffering. I have seen all kinds of relationships and know what I don't have. I'm pretty clear with myself about why I stay and that it's not because I'm being boiled alive. I think that's the difference - I know I'm not hurting him, and I know he can't hurt me any more. I know he knows my boundaries and that I'll remind him if he forgets. I know that he really does feel that he owes me something and wants to give it to me but needs help doing that. And I know that my kids are grateful and relieved that this was the outcome and respectful of what it took to get here. It's enough.

 

What I meant by the frog analogy is, like the water, the "heat" continues to go up but you are accustomed to it and don't notice.

 

Nor do I mean that someone deserves to suffer. But some people, because of their upbringing, coping mechanisms, etc. find comfort in the old patterns even if the comfort is because of negative reinforcements. Why some people find a trend of significant others with substance abuse issues when one of their parent had one, etc. We internalize what we are brought up knowing and reflect it. I grew up codependent because of my upbringing. I no longer am but I was the "good" child, the quiet and sweet one. I also noticed the most and tried to play peace maker. I learned early on how to read the unspoken mood of a room and when to run and when to redirect. I also learned how to conflict avoid.

 

As an adult I have learned how to redirect these things and I have seen how changing them gets a better response.

 

Nor am I saying that you are at fault for your husband's affair. That is not it. AT ALL.

 

The outcome of the affair can have a positive history to it based on how you two manage it. I know with my parents it really was the tip of the iceberg which is why I didn't care that much. If that had been the only thing it would have had a different impact. But with a long history of fighting, not speaking, bringing the kids into it, physical violence on my dad's part, financial infidelity on his part, infidelity on her part, anger issues on his part, etc. You can see the canvas was painted with a lot more than just the smear of the physical affair.

 

But, at the end of the day, I actually am not cynical. I really am not. I am realistic about them but I also temper it with the knowledge they did try. They wanted it to be a good upbringing and they wanted to do the right thing. They had FOO issues themselves and really they are human and not perfect. It was what it was and there were a lot of lessons I learned from it. But that is why the affair doesn't impact me like someone else. It didn't impact me directly that I remember nor did it change my perception of either of them.

 

Maybe, because it was one of the last things I learned about their marriage, I just pitied them a bit more. It was two people, both on a rebound when they met that decided to get married, by default, because one was moving. There was no great love story, there was no Cinderella moment. It was two people who figured that it seemed like a good idea at the time who spent decades struggling to stand by that decision.

[MuddyFootprints]

I was completely out of touch with how my children would react. It has been more difficult to reconcile with my young adult and teen children than it has been with my husband. Especially with my daughters. My oldest daughter is disgusted by my actions. Her anger with the fact that her father and I are together still surfaces occasionally. I broke my youngest daughter's heart completely. I still see and feel her sadness from what I put our family through. I have a lot of work to do to regain their trust and love.

[Anne Boleyn]

Inspired by another thread, how did your older children handle the fallout of the affair?

 

The kids weren't of an age to know of the affair, though now the oldest is putting two and two together and I think realizes that his father and I had an affair. If he starts asking questions, of course we'll answer them, but I think that he also realizes that the situation is complicated as he's also acutely aware of his mother's mental condition. As he gets older, I think because they were young when they divorced, that there will be longer legacy of our functional relationship than of their dysfunctional marriage.

 

What of your grandchildren? How was extended family affected?

 

No grandchildren.

 

Extended family was affected in various ways... All of them on his ex-wife's side and his side felt the need to weigh in, some were very critical and they fell out, others said that whatever he chose they'd support him in because their love for him was the prevailing attitude.

 

As time has gone on, her mother thinks she can do no wrong and my husband can do no right, her father is very friendly to both my husband and I, even to the point where we trade vacation tips and when he needed help with the kids he called me for advice. His family has all come around and, despite his mother and stepfather cutting him off for a few years, are both very friendly to both me and him. I think all family members, aside from her mother, are fine and have no issues.

[jnel921]

Infidelity is a very personal matter not for kids. At least not my kids or anyone else to know or pass judgment.

 

The parties involved can handle it and seek the help they need to fix or end it.

 

And even if I did decide to divorce I would not disclose the reasons. It's no ones business.

Edited February 28, 2014 by jnel921

[cocorico]

This is the type of situation I will never understand.

 

If one parent is in such abject misery in their marriage, if they are never around for their kids when they need them, if the kids are unhappy because they home life is unhappy and the parents till tries to make it work, then why stay? Why does it take an A to leave? Shouldn't seeing the kids so unhappy be reason enough?

 

*Both* parents were in abject misery. But it was a generation raised with the notion that "you have made your bed, now you must lie in it", and personal happiness was way less important than duty and responsibility. All the "experts" of the timed warned of dire consequences for kids from "broken" homes, and the general mood was that it was "better" for the kids to have both parents living at home. They also had their own personal demons - my mother and her siblings had lived through the divorce of their parents, and had been taken away by "the Welfare" and raised in (separate, as there were 11 of them) foster homes, and she'd felt more than anything that having her parents together, however bad it was (there was domestic violence, alcoholism, etc ) was better than what happened. My father had a largely absent father (due to work) and also felt the lack of both parents acutely. They really believed it was best - and that however unhappy their kids were currently, they would be so much more unhappy if they split.

 

And he may have been right, IDK - in those days, custody invariably went to the mother, unless she was proven to be problematic, in which case they would have been fostered out. Much as I hated growing up in a domestic war zone, without the moderating influence of my father it would have likely been much worse. Or, we'd have been fostered out, and having met my mother's foster parents and their (then current) foster kids, that prospect terrified me. Usually it was very poor people who signed up to foster, as it provided an income, so the money intended to cover the costs of the foster kid would be stretched to run the entire household, and often there would be half a dozen or so foster kids, many of whom had behavioural difficulties. It was not a prospect I relished.

 

Things are very different now. It is hard to judge those days by today's standards.

[rumbleseat]

*Both* parents were in abject misery. But it was a generation raised with the notion that "you have made your bed, now you must lie in it", and personal happiness was way less important than duty and responsibility. All the "experts" of the timed warned of dire consequences for kids from "broken" homes, and the general mood was that it was "better" for the kids to have both parents living at home. They also had their own personal demons - my mother and her siblings had lived through the divorce of their parents, and had been taken away by "the Welfare" and raised in (separate, as there were 11 of them) foster homes, and she'd felt more than anything that having her parents together, however bad it was (there was domestic violence, alcoholism, etc ) was better than what happened. My father had a largely absent father (due to work) and also felt the lack of both parents acutely. They really believed it was best - and that however unhappy their kids were currently, they would be so much more unhappy if they split.

 

And he may have been right, IDK - in those days, custody invariably went to the mother, unless she was proven to be problematic, in which case they would have been fostered out. Much as I hated growing up in a domestic war zone, without the moderating influence of my father it would have likely been much worse. Or, we'd have been fostered out, and having met my mother's foster parents and their (then current) foster kids, that prospect terrified me. Usually it was very poor people who signed up to foster, as it provided an income, so the money intended to cover the costs of the foster kid would be stretched to run the entire household, and often there would be half a dozen or so foster kids, many of whom had behavioural difficulties. It was not a prospect I relished.

 

Things are very different now. It is hard to judge those days by today's standards.

 

True enough, but in today's world, it's easy to see the negative end result of this attitude.

 

I've seen people who grew up in this environment go onto be incredibly dysfunctional, so much so that they may even take out their hatred for the parent who they feel let them down on anyone else they perceive as being similar, even to the extreme of hating those of that same gender. They go on to take passive aggressive swipes at them as a way to get back at the parent who hurt them.

 

Some repeat the cycle of abuse, and go on to abuse their own children. Some become hypersensitive to what they feel is abuse in other relationships. Some feel they are worth nothing better than being unhappy.

 

A few really unfortunate souls go on to relive their abusive upbringing.

 

All I all, the only ones who benefit are the therapists, psychologists or even psychiatrists.

[cocorico]

True enough, but in today's world, it's easy to see the negative end result of this attitude.

 

I've seen people who grew up in this environment go onto be incredibly dysfunctional, so much so that they may even take out their hatred for the parent who they feel let them down on anyone else they perceive as being similar, even to the extreme of hating those of that same gender. They go on to take passive aggressive swipes at them as a way to get back at the parent who hurt them.

 

Some repeat the cycle of abuse, and go on to abuse their own children. Some become hypersensitive to what they feel is abuse in other relationships. Some feel they are worth nothing better than being unhappy.

 

A few really unfortunate souls go on to relive their abusive upbringing.

 

All I all, the only ones who benefit are the therapists, psychologists or even psychiatrists.

 

This (bolded) is true. I think that dynamic might explain my H's xW. She had a very difficult R with her father, hated him, and as a result hates all men. Her first X she treated really badly, and then had an A which she felt was warranted because he was a man and men oppress women through M so it was righting the balance. Her second M she was constantly belittling her H because he was a man, in front of her son, who she would also snipe at on the basis of his gender. He had real self-esteem issues as a result.

 

And it does seem she feels that she is only worth being unhappy - she has resisted any attempts to help her toward happiness, any therapy, counselling or 'support, and prefers to self-medicate from a bottle. It is really sad.

 

Luckily it is not inevitable. Some of us have made peace with our backgrounds, accepted the limitations of our parents, and moved on to healthy Rs with our own partners and kids. No one need be a prisoner of their past, if they're prepared to learn the lessons, do the work, and move on.