Ex dumped me for mutual friend: Am I crazy to call her behavior beforehand "cheating"

February 13, 2014

Hi all,

The meat of the story is in BOLD. The rest will fill you in a little more. I am wondering if it is out of line for me to think that some of my ex's behavior when we were still together is fair to label as "cheating"

This past summer, my ex dumped for for a mutual friend/coworker of ours.

One week, while our relationship still seemed good (we were together 5 years). I went home sick, and she spent a lot of time with this mutual friend. She even stayed at his house, (not in the same room, at least she says), and he gave her a back rub. I was invited over too that night but was still sick and couldn't. She told me this, maybe she felt guilty, and I was jealous, and she asked me if that really bothered me, and I said it did but I trusted her.

When I got back, pretty soon she brought up the issue of kids (she wanted them for sure I thought I probably didn't). I said that I didn't want to but I thought we might have to break up. She said "What if I don't want that?" and asked me if I had REALLY thought about having kids. I started to really ask myself the question (I am 24.), but never resolved anything until weeks after she dumped me. She was in a rush to get rid of me, and now I understand why.

Well, by the end of the summer, she picked kids over me and broke up with me. I said something like "so what am I supposed to do now? Just give up on us?" and she said 'You don't think you'll find someone else?" At the time I thought she was trying to get me to look forward, but in retrospect, she was already thinking about someone else for her a couple minutes after dumping me. I was devastated and angry, but it didn't take me to long to forgive her for picking kids over me. She had me convinced that that was the only reason we broke up. In reality though, there was at least one other GIGANTIC reason:

Since we worked together, I saw her a few times being flirty with our mutual friend about a month after the breakup. She could see I was jealous and told me to ask what I wanted to ask. I asked if they were "starting something" and she said no. I should have followed up with the question of "Do you want to start something with him?" It would have saved me 4 months of hoping she and I would reconcile. Assuming she would have told the truth of course.

I eventually realized that someday I do want kids, just not right now when I have no real security or much savings. I told her this and she told me that maybe we'd get back together.

Well, 4 months after the breakup, I asked her what she was thinking and feeling, if she wanted to try again. She said she didn't love me anymore and never saw us getting back together. 5 months after, I see her with my friend. I talk to him, and he says that just a couple weeks after she dumped me, she started pursuing him. This was BEFORE she told me that we might get back together and BEFORE she told me they were not starting anything. Another friend says he saw them around town together a lot too. Both of them kept this from me.

My big question is, it seems pretty obvious now that she developed feelings for him while she was still with me. Am I out of line for thinking staying at his house (even if nothing sexual happened) and letting him give her a back rub is cheating? I think the fact that she did those things while she had feelings for him makes it cheating. Is that not a good way to look at it?

February 13, 2014

I think you're clutching at straws. Bottom line is, she left you. The "why" is irrelevant.

February 13, 2014

I guess what I am getting at is if she had feelings for him and got a back rub from him, am I justified in considering that cheating?

Like I know that I will find someone else, yada yada, but really, after this, why shouldn't I be concerned and not trusting of my future GF if she has male friends that she hangs out with?

I didn't think too much of her spending time with this friend until after I realized that she probably had feelings for him when she did it.

February 13, 2014

mate never go against your gut instincts. In hindsight, she was cheating whenever she back rubbed him or whatever else she did. She's a bitch and so is that prick.

Stop dwelling on it though. Your creating a prison in your own head. You remind me of me.

Gotta accept the fact that she is a worthless cheater and so is he, draw a line under it now and be happy.

February 13, 2014

My ex would have never let me get a back rub from another man. He would have considered that cheating and to be honest I wouldn't have been cool with it either. I think there are certain things that shouldn't be allowed in a relationship and one of them being; staying the night with the opposite sex. Secondly, touching/getting touched in such ways by the opposite sex. I'm not talking about a friendly hug. We all know what's inappropriate.

We both had our own lives, and friends, but we tried not to set ourselves up in a situation that could turn out bad. I, nor him, would have even been alone with the opposite sex in order to get a back rub. Some people may be okay with such things but we weren't.

February 13, 2014

I guess what I am getting at is if she had feelings for him and got a back rub from him, am I justified in considering that cheating?

Like I know that I will find someone else, yada yada, but really, after this, why shouldn't I be concerned and not trusting of my future GF if she has male friends that she hangs out with?

I didn't think too much of her spending time with this friend until after I realized that she probably had feelings for him when she did it.

If you start distrusting every girl who had male friends, your dating life is going to be extremely limited. Just because she did something, doesn't mean all girls will.

February 13, 2014

mate never go against your gut instincts. In hindsight, she was cheating whenever she back rubbed him or whatever else she did. She's a bitch and so is that prick.

Stop dwelling on it though. Your creating a prison in your own head. You remind me of me.

Gotta accept the fact that she is a worthless cheater and so is he, draw a line under it now and be happy.

My gut instinct when we were still together was to trust her, lol.

I want to stop dwelling on it, but I wonder about the future. My future girlfriend goes out to lunch with male friend or business partner. This seems like something a reasonable person wouldn't get upset about, but after this experience, I feel like I couldn't help but get more than appropriately jealous.

I don't know, I guess the question is, for people who have been cheated on or even just dumped for someone else, how do you get over the concerns that the next person is going to do the same?

February 13, 2014

I guess the question is, for people who have been cheated on or even just dumped for someone else, how do you get over the concerns that the next person is going to do the same?

You have to realize you have ZERO control over what someone else does.

You have to hold onto your heart until there is some trust built between you. Don't just hand someone your heart so she can stomp on it.

You have to pay attention to the rest of her life. Is she honest with her family, at her job, with her finances? A person who is deceitful or a liar isn't going to be that way only in a relationship.

You have discussions about values, and you watch her to see if her actions align with her words.

You go into a relationship knowing that if she IS a cheater or liar, the earlier you find out, the better off you are.

You have to realize that if someone is a cheater, it is not a reflection on you. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, or that the person she cheated with is better than you in any way. It just means she has a major character flaw and you are better off without her.

You have to be very honest about what you want out of a relationship, what your expectations are in a relationship, and what your goals are. That way if hers aren't compatible, you can just move on before you get too invested.

Oh and to answer your OP, I don't think it is healthy to even try to label what she did. The relationship is over and she moved on, and now you need to do the same.

February 13, 2014

If you start distrusting every girl who had male friends, your dating life is going to be extremely limited. Just because she did something, doesn't mean all girls will.

I think you hit the nail exactly on the head.

I (at least felt I) had absolutely no reason to distrust my ex when she acted like I had nothing to be concerned about.

I know it's absolutely insane to look at everyone who I might be interested in dating and assume that they are going to leave me, but I guess what really is getting to me is I trusted someone, she told me I shouldn't worry, so I didn't worry, and exactly what I would have worried about DID happen.

I don't think I am really agreeing or disagreeing with you, I just think writing this out is helping.

I guess the solution is a simple as realizing finding someone who I can trust is worth risking getting betrayed again.

I don't know if I will actually be TRUSTING them though, or just giving them the benefit of the doubt.

February 14, 2014

Exercise in futility... Guess what if you put all your energies into things that are out of your control, your minds going to be out of control. The who's, what's, where's and when's will bring nothing but pain and confusion. It's like playing sudoku without any numbers. Focus on you in the now. That's all we ever really have anyway.

Peace

February 14, 2014

Dude, if she was liking him and she was alone at his place all night long....more than a back rub happened.

But really, what does it matter now?

February 14, 2014

Dude, if she was liking him and she was alone at his place all night long....more than a back rub happened.

But really, what does it matter now?

It probably doesn't. I agree with a few posts above that trying to label it doesn't do any good.

I guess I thought if I could really justify calling her a cheater, that would make it easier to kill the part of me that still wants who I thought she was back. That if she is a cheater, that's one more thing she is that I don't want.

February 14, 2014

IT DOES MATTER. Its all relevant. She is a cheater. SHE IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT, trust me on that. Your still in denial mate. Trust me, you will get past the denial as soon as you accept that she dropped you for another punk.

Try to stop going around in circles. She and he are beneath you. Your better then them and you certainly dont need or want them.

February 14, 2014

It probably doesn't. I agree with a few posts above that trying to label it doesn't do any good.

I guess I thought if I could really justify calling her a cheater, that would make it easier to kill the part of me that still wants who I thought she was back. That if she is a cheater, that's one more thing she is that I don't want.

I guess over time loveshack always ends up having a situation identical to the one you went through. Mate, I went through the exact same thing, exact. Mutual friend, 5 years, the whole nine yards. Tomorrow, yeah valentines day, will be one year since the break up and I'm almost completely over it. Sure it sucked, felt like a family member died but you'll get through it. I miss her at times but I miss the old her, the one who wouldn't have done all the awful crap she did to me.

Basically what I'm trying to say is "who cares?". You sure as heck shouldn't, you should be stoked that you found this stuff out about her before you married her or had children with her. You're still very young mate, get back out there and have fun. Good luck!

February 14, 2014

Yes she was ATLEAST emotionally cheating on you with that guy. They were in different rooms and he only gave her a 'back rub'. LMAO.

What girl lets their 'guyfriend' let him give her a backrub? Unless it's a serious accident or something, it's a sign of mutual affection.

I was together with my ex for 5 years too. And although she didn't leave me for a mutual friend. It was for another guy.

And I dumped her before they could develop deeper feelings, I thought it would heighten my chances of her coming back. I was wrong...

Seriously -fck em- low life scum.

February 14, 2014

It probably doesn't. I agree with a few posts above that trying to label it doesn't do any good.

I guess I thought if I could really justify calling her a cheater, that would make it easier to kill the part of me that still wants who I thought she was back. That if she is a cheater, that's one more thing she is that I don't want.

Dude, even if it was just a back rub. Unless your friend is a licensed Massage Therapist, then you can classify it as cheating. If it's not done on a professional level, then there's a level of intimacy with giving someone a massage. She was supposed to be a girl in an exclusive relationship. Therefore, she had no business having your friend put his hands on her.

Plus, a private massage can be a form of foreplay. That's why I think more happened that night.

February 14, 2014

I know how u feel OP. I went thru the same situ.

I knew my ex was flirting w/ a mutual acquaintance. She thought I was asleep next to her while they're texting at 2am. I knew she wanted him bad as most of the girls in our circle. In the final bout, I was still so into her but had to walk way and go NC.

That was over 3 months ago. Went thru the process - numbness, anger, crying etc. Getting distracted is the key - bought a new guitar, took dance classes, went to the gym more often and talk to other girls. It helped me get thru so did posting and reading in here.

Despite all that, tho, a minutes thought can get u back into denial. It's hard especially w/ the Holidays and the harsh winter. I miss the intimacy the most and we all know, our imagination can paint devious pictures. Guta get rid of that mental paint brush!

Most of us come here because we suffer like you do. If anything, understand that you will have to mourn the loss. Easier said than but there will be an end to it. . I overcame a terrible BU 2 years ago w/ a longer RS.

It's valentines and I know they're still in the honeymoon stages. I still miss here now and then but less than before. I'm mostly angrier now than ever. We had our time but she decided her way. I know one them will also be suffering this pain in time. Nothing lasts forever.

Be strong brother!!

February 14, 2014

Wyswyg is spot on!!!

If it makes it any easier your not alone. My ex has been in a relationship with someone I would of classed as my closest friend . At the most it begun 1 month after we separated. We also have two children together...

Way I see it I could spend my time focused on them and what they doing or I can focus on bettering and improving my own life. You are what you think..

It's valentines so what... They deserve each other. Not my concern. I'm doing me...

February 15, 2014

Maybe it's just me but I would never get touchy feely with another guy. If I wanted a back rub, I would go to a professional!

February 17, 2014

Pretty mad today. Just felt like writing a little note to the ex:

Why are you the angry one? I admit I am angry, but for you it just came OUT like it never did before. Nothing big. Just a quick snap at me. It took me forever to get to this phase, but I am here. A big part of it is all the false friends I have discovered. All the "friends" who knew about your manipulations but said nothing YOU cheated on ME. YOU lied to ME. You deceived ME. You told me you still cared about me and that you might want to get back together when you already were after my friend. YOU took advantage of ME trying to make the best of this by using me to spend time with my friend. YOU took advantage of ME when I told you about a girl someone wanted to set this friend up with. YOU played ME. YOU exploited my trust when you said you were not starting something with my friend. So why are YOU angry at ME? I hope it’s because the dust is settling and you are starting to feel guilty for all the horrible things you did to me, especially LYING to me when you said you still cared about me, I hope the anger is to cover up the guilt, and eventually you will run out of things to cover it up and will face it. It scared me to think that anyone could go through life thinking what you did was even remotely excusable. You didn’t have to lie to my face for months to get with him, and if you did, I don’t see how you could think your relationship is good for anyone. You didn’t have to lie, but you did anyways. You were wonderful once. And now you don’t even seem sorry for all your deception and manipulation. I realize I am nothing to you anymore, after 5 years together, but to tell another human being that you care about them and might want to be with them, when you mean nothing of the sort, how can you live with yourself? I am genuinely intrigued. It would give me some insight into the things that people can rationalize. You used to have principles. I used to look up to what I saw as your faith, your selflessness, and your kindness. Was it all an act? I actually defended you when people said it was weird how you were acting with our friend. You told me that there was nothing going on, and I trusted you and backed you up. You completely deceived me and played me for a fool, and I have defended you, because I trusted that you would tell me the truth. I wonder all the lies and selective truths you told your family and friends about me. I can't believe I wanted you back. I can't believe I still care about you.

But I do know this. You once said that "In the end, there are no mistakes." Well, reflecting on that, that is completely untrue. I realize you might need to tell yourself that to justify your lies and manipulation. But I know of two things that were FACTUALLY mistakes. The first was your 5 month campaign of lies. That was your mistake. My mistake? It was trusting you. And I will not make it again.

Edited February 17, 2014 by mantlefan

February 17, 2014

Addendum:

We don't know each other as well as we thought. I know one thing about you though, that you can't stand it when people hate you. Maybe you lied to me because you honestly thought that was better for me, but I think when we get down to it, the real reason you lied was to avoid having someone hate you. You did it for you. Did it work?

I don't hate you. You probably deserve it though. I think the same love for you that motivated me to trust you completely even as you cheated on me is still strong. I am not ashamed of this love, in fact I see it as a gift. I think it's more of a blessing to go through life betrayed and hurt than betrayed and furious. Peace is easier to find in pain than anger.

So why do I get angry at you, even furious sometimes, but I don't hate you? I liken myself to a man walking through the desert. I came across you, a beautiful flower. I loved you, cared for you, wanted to be there for you. Turns out I was blind, and you were not a flower but a rattlesnake. My love for you made me that blind. Even as you were biting me, I still bought into your deception of convincing me you were a flower. I was that blind. The pain was intense, and anger was my defense mechanism, trying to summon all I had to stop the pain, flailing ineffectively because I didn't understand what was really happening.

Now that I see you are a snake, why do I still get angry? Perhaps part of it is that the anger helped insulate me from the pain, made me feel like I had control, gave me something to focus on. Maybe that anger will help keep me sharp for the next time I come across a snake that looks like a flower.

My anger serves a purpose. It reminds me of the pain you caused me, it

keeps me alert in case you try to cause it again. Your venom had me drowsy and confused. It still does in some ways. Anger gets the blood flowing, it gets the venom processed sooner.

So how can I be angry at you and not hate you? How can I want you totally out of my life, but still want to forgive you, and not hold a grudge? Well, maybe there is nothing to forgive. Snakes bite. That's what they do. That's just who you are. Why hate a wolf that eats a sheep? It's in the wolf's nature. It cannot do otherwise.

Avoiding you doesn't mean I hate you. It means I've learned about what you are really like. It would be stupid to go near a snake after getting bitten, just like it would be stupid to touch a stove after getting burned. Even seeing a picture of you reminds me of the scars, and makes them hurt a little more. It's not about you. It's about me not needing that pain anymore. It does me no good. I have learned to look out for snakes like you.

February 17, 2014

Mantlefan wrote back in his original post:

When I got back, pretty soon she brought up the issue of kids (she wanted them for sure I thought I probably didn't). I said that I didn't want to but I thought we might have to break up. She said "What if I don't want that?" and asked me if I had REALLY thought about having kids. I started to really ask myself the question (I am 24.), but never resolved anything until weeks after she dumped me. She was in a rush to get rid of me, and now I understand why.

No, I suspect that you do not understand. Children are very important to most women. If you don't want kids, they don't want you. She was telling you what she needed. You not only did not respond the way she wanted, you didn't understand the importance of what she was saying.

And don't shrug it off. She was asking if you wanted to father her children, children she would carry and birth and suffer in doing it. She'd likely be the one caring for them when they were little, with leaking diapers and the stuff getting all over you. She wanted to know if you were the one who would stand with her. You failed.

Don't spend time worrying about if she cheated or not or the definition of "infidelity" or whatever. You were already dead meat and she was probably just looking for a way to extricate herself from her relationship with you.

You want to feel that she cheated? Go right ahead. But if you want to show that you've learned something about communicating with women, stop blaming her. You blew it.

February 18, 2014

I'm all for taking constructive criticism, but it's clear you didn't read what I actually wrote.

I am not sure what events in your life made you write as though I abandoned her. I wrestled with the kids question harder than I have anything else in my life. Perhaps I failed from the perspective of the fact that I didn't really seriously consider it until a month or so before the BU, but I did the exact opposite of abandoning her. I wrestled with all my demons to see if that was something I could do. By the time I realized that I did want to be a father someday, she had already dumped me. The last thing I did was "shrug it off."

When I told her a few weeks after the BU that I realized I did want kids, she said she was happy for me but needed time to think about it. In reality, she was already after my friend. For two months, she told me that she might want to get back together, she just needed time to think. At BEST, she was keeping me in her back pocket in case pursuing my friend didn't work out.

I have regretted for a long time that I did not really do soul searching on kids sooner. I have apologized for that to her a dozen times But for you to make it sound like that makes all of her deception and lies OK, I am wondering what events in your life have led to a rationalization like that.

She was ready to know the final word on kids, and make a commitment to having them. I was ready to make a commitment to her. Like I said in many other posts, the kids question might have broken us up anyways. But for her to bring it up in the middle of a hellish month of work after she had spent a LOT of time, intimately, with the guy she ended up going after, that is not right, and strongly suggests that kids were not the ONLY reason.

Besides, if I actually didn't want kids, and that somehow magically makes ALL of her behavior OK, how did I "blow it?" Wouldn't that just be a case of two people wanting different things? You act like I did something wrong for telling her what was the truth at the time: that I couldn't promise her I'd ever want kids. I have lost plenty of sleep over what might have been had I lied to her and told her I wanted them for sure when I was totally unsure, but I know that THAT would have been TRULY blowing it. Maybe I would have figured it out and realized I wanted them and we'd be happy, and on and on and on. But it still would have been wrong to do at the time.

If she broke up with me because she wanted kids more than she wanted me, I can understand that, even sympathize. And I heartily believe that was PART of the reason. But lying to me, using me to get closer to my friend, telling me she still cared and might want to get back together, coming over and hanging out (bad idea I know, I invited her over only BEFORE I found this site), how was all that necessary to get rid of me so she could be with someone who would give her kids?

Edited February 18, 2014 by mantlefan

February 18, 2014

Na **** that. Dont listen to sidney he seems to enjoy putting the boot in whilst your down.

You do need to stop blaming yourself too. If it was meant to be, it would have been. Stop going over the 'i didnt want kids' because if she was for REAL she would have worked with you on that and persuaded you or given you time. Your 24, not 34.

You got a double betrayal. She's a bitch, a predator, and if, by the slimmest chance sidney is right about her, than why the hell would you want to be with a woman who is solely fishing out a male who she can procreate with??? Isnt love supposed to come first? A stable relationship and then family?

I know one thing though, and it applies to me too. You shouldnt be sat on here wasting your life going over and over what that bitch did to you. She isnt thinking about you, thats for sure. Force her from your mind.

Edited February 18, 2014 by fixing

February 18, 2014

Isnt love supposed to come first? A stable relationship and then family?

I agree fully with this.

Edited February 18, 2014 by mantlefan

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Ex dumped me for mutual friend: Am I crazy to call her behavior beforehand "cheating"

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