Got it Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 arnt all MM having affairs proven liars? I dont know, guesss I'll revert to the old cop out "theres just something about him"... I think I need some serious IC, for being an OW to begin with, figure out why I accepted that as acceptable. Lil, your posts confuse me. It seems the more things move forward with him the more you start to separate yourself emotionally from him. Was there any part of this about a competition for you that now the competition is over you are reflecting on everything/him? I do think CC is very helpful as well as IC. I think you need to figure out who you are, what you want, and who you want to be. I don't think jerking him around is going to be fair either. I think you need to be honest with your criticism of him and communicate them to him. These are some blunt thoughts and you two need to work through them. Your pendulum as swung from one extreme to the other and I think you really need to look at that. 2
woinlove Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Lil, your posts confuse me. It seems the more things move forward with him the more you start to separate yourself emotionally from him. Was there any part of this about a competition for you that now the competition is over you are reflecting on everything/him? I do think CC is very helpful as well as IC. I think you need to figure out who you are, what you want, and who you want to be. I don't think jerking him around is going to be fair either. I think you need to be honest with your criticism of him and communicate them to him. These are some blunt thoughts and you two need to work through them. Your pendulum as swung from one extreme to the other and I think you really need to look at that. I agree with the advice of counselling and analyzing how you really feel about MM. But I'd put the emphasize more on taking care of yourself, making sure you are happy with you choices, than worrying about jerking MM around. He clearly has not been open and honest with you, he wasn't honest with his W even after discovering her own affair, and I think in that case, it is important to protect yourself, since you don't know what else you are being misled about. Maybe nothing else, or maybe not. In any case, I do agree you need to look hard at yourself, what you want and who you want to be. That's great advice. And maybe competition plays or played a role, but maybe it is also learning more about MM and about yourself, that is causing some change in feelings. Edited February 15, 2014 by woinlove 4
Got it Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I agree though outside of this news, it has been reevaluating old information. I completely understand when you see things during S/D that you aren't sure about but that doesn't seem to be the case with the change in posts by Lil. I also don't know why he would be honest about his affair. Who actually thinks someone would "come clean" now? That is just odd to me. If they are divorcing he has no reason to disclose that information and, in fact, most attorneys would counsel not to. It isn't helpful for his case. I wondered that since the base of their relationship was a dom/sub or Daddy/child relationship in the affair that seeing the more "real" aspects of him and the changing to a more traditional relationship is actually causing consternation for the OP. The divorce process is a tough time and can be a very humbling/vulnerable experience. I know that it was for me in even a very amicable divorce and exponentially more so for my husband. So is that actually having the power play change, where he may need the OP more now in a different way if that actually doesn't make him less appealing to him? He is less in control, less all knowing and powerful and that is causing less of an appeal. So while the OP may be looking at it as a "come to Jesus moment" of a reevaluation of the affair I actually wonder if it is a reevaluation of actually her boyfriend no longer being a MM. Add insult to injury that his wife actually didn't "want" him either and his appeal is even less now. Yes he wasn't honest with her and the big question is why? Why wasn't he? I can't imagine in most situations where that wouldn't have been discussed as almost a "perfect" outcome because there is no victim in the divorce. The sides are even and should be able to walk away fairly amicably or at least one side being vindictive. But yet he doesn't discuss this information with the OP. That is very very odd. Does it say more about the MM/boyfriend or does it say more about the OP? Edited February 16, 2014 by Got it 2
woinlove Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I give my perspective above because it matches up with my own experience. I similarly had found out xMM lied to me but I didn't leave him then and excused it, but it must have rattled around inside me, because as he was divorcing and I saw him continue to lie to his W it all came together for me that this was a man I really should not trust. For me, trust is key to a R, so I left him. I don't know how much Lil is bothered by MM's lies - she did probe him after people here had questioned the reasons he gave for his 3am departure. I think it is quite likely that also rattled around for her, and now she has that lie confirmed and she can see how he treated his W. Maybe it is adding up for her, like it added up for me. Maybe it is a combination of things, the lies and the competition aspect. I certainly won't dismiss the possibility of competition playing an important role. If one looks at some of the married middle age (or beyond!) men, some even without wealth, looks or great personality, who attract women 20 or more years younger than them, I think it is pretty clear some of them would not stand a chance if they were single. Yes, competition can certainly play a role in affairs. Just as true, finding out someone you love and who you think loves you, has lied to you about something important to you, can have a big impact on how you view them. Edited February 16, 2014 by woinlove 4
Got it Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 I give my perspective above because it matches up with my own experience. I similarly had found out xMM lied to me but I didn't leave him then and excused it, but it must have rattled around inside me, because as he was divorcing and I saw him continue to lie to his W it all came together for me that this was a man I really should not trust. For me, trust is key to a R, so I left him. I don't know how much Lil is bothered by MM's lies - she did probe him after people here had questioned the reasons he gave for his 3am departure. I think it is quite likely that also rattled around for her, and now she has that lie confirmed and she can see how he treated his W. Maybe it is adding up for her, like it added up for me. Maybe it is a combination of things, the lies and the competition aspect. I certainly won't dismiss the possibility of competition playing an important role. If one looks at some of the married middle age (or beyond!) men, some even without wealth, looks or great personality, who attract women 20 or more years younger than them, I think it is pretty clear some of them would not stand a chance if they were single. Yes, competition can certainly play a role in affairs. Just as true, finding out someone you love and who you think loves you, has lied to you about something important to you, can have a big impact on how you view them.[/QUOTE] But what did he lie about that was important to her? I didn't see why he left at 3am seemingly important to her. It wasn't something she seemed to post about pressing the reason. She didn't seem to deep dive it. I may be wrong but I didn't see Lil deep diving much of anything about their relationship or him. She has been skating on the surface. I saw her changing her tone here based on the majority voice that was on her posts. But I have questioned if that is actually how she feels or just telling people what they want to hear? I don't know. It all just doesn't jive with me. I am not saying anyone is lying. I just question how real "we" are being. How much one is turning over the rocks to get to the meat and potatoes of everything. 1
woinlove Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 But what did he lie about that was important to her? I didn't see why he left at 3am seemingly important to her. It wasn't something she seemed to post about pressing the reason. She didn't seem to deep dive it. I may be wrong but I didn't see Lil deep diving much of anything about their relationship or him. She has been skating on the surface. I saw her changing her tone here based on the majority voice that was on her posts. But I have questioned if that is actually how she feels or just telling people what they want to hear? I don't know. It all just doesn't jive with me. I am not saying anyone is lying. I just question how real "we" are being. How much one is turning over the rocks to get to the meat and potatoes of everything. I didn't read it the same as you as Lil did appear to press him which resulted in him changing his reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think why he finally left his W was/is important to Lil. In any case, there are a couple possibilities on the table for Lil to consider and I hope she finds whatever is at the heart of her conflicted feelings and I have no vested interest in it being connected to trust issues - if it is something else, she needs to discover that.
ComingInHot Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Hey Lil', aside from this being "juicy" gossip as a thread topic (which granted it is*), do have a wonder on this or a question about it?*
woinlove Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Here's one question Lil posed in relation to this new info: we love eachother dearly, make an amazing team, are the couple I would see when I was unhappily M and out and think I wish I had that. That being said, relationships built on a scandalous and suspicious foundation dont make the best R no matter what direction they're going. I was the OW, I let myself to fall in love with a proven liar, as the OW we encourage our MM to be sociopaths or compulsive liars..... how do we know if once we end up with these MM the game just doesnt switch onto us? I think the answer is that a lot of work needs to be done by the MM to change. First, they need to want to change. Many don't. I don't see evidence that this particular MM is changing, but Lil is in the best position to judge that. 1
rumbleseat Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 I don't understand why he is choosing to lie and withhold information how that he has no real "excuse" to anymore ( not that he ever really had one). You would think he would have wanted you to know this, as it might have alleviated some of the guilt you felt , if any.
Got it Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Here's one question Lil posed in relation to this new info: I think the answer is that a lot of work needs to be done by the MM to change. First, they need to want to change. Many don't. I don't see evidence that this particular MM is changing, but Lil is in the best position to judge that. Yes I saw that. I don't see that viewpoint giving any room for changing. It is written as an absolute. Your post discusses an ability to change her's does not. So that, on top of the other posts, lead/led me to believe that for Lil there is no future in this relationship as it was never supposed to actually become anything else.
Popsicle Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Well one thing you know for sure...that marriage was dead. I guess he's sure now too.
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