Question - Conflict avoiders

[longjourney]

Question to all the wise people here. Are BS's who are conflict avoiders, who are afraid to stand up for themselves and have low self esteem more likely to "reconcile"? I mean we hear all the time about the WS rug sweeping their A. Trying to "put it behind them", thinking that avoiding talking about their A will make it go away. But what about the BW rug sweeping? What about the BW staying in the M because she isn't strong enough to stand up for herself?

 

 

For example in my case, I "knew" about my WH's LTA while it was going on, for over a year. My gut couldn't have been twisted any further, but I was afraid to speak up. The few times I did mention being "uncomfortable" I was told I was crazy and imagining things. And since I was a mouse, I was afraid to confront.

 

 

So is a M really R if the rug sweeping is from the BW's POV? If she stays just because she can't face the facts, that her self esteem is shattered and the REAL work is never done. What if she allows herself to be swept up in her WH's words and "loving" actions, but that gut wrenching pain is still there for years, are they R? If the A was an LTA and went on for YEARS how can a M truly be R without YEARS of MC/IC? How can this be R in a BW's mind that this was "okay" to do to her and her family, and just turn the other cheek? I can't see going forward in my M with out YEARS of therapy and distance from my cheating WH. He f$#ked another woman for YEARS, he loved her FOR YEARS, he lied to my face EVERY day for years. He made me think I was delusional FOR YEARS, how can that be excused in a year? To say my WH "made a mistake" and excuse it for the sake of our family, what about the sake of my heart. He crushed and stomped on me FOR YEARS, for my entire marriage and I am supposed to be okay after say 1 - 2 years?? To say I forgive such horrible actions in a year when the lying and cheating was going on for YEARS longer? Isn't that just SCREAMING low self esteem??

 

 

I believe that is just a case of a BW fooling herself. I can't imagine looking my WH in his eyes, or being in his embrace or taking a "happy couple photo" and knowing in my mind and heart what he did to me. How is that R? How is that being true to myself? Especially when that saying, if we didn't have kids together I'd be gone wasn't still ringing in my ears.

 

 

I know I am early out, but help me understand. It can't be erased, it just can't, and to start a new M with this man, that still included me giving up a part of myself. I am spiraling today.

[cozycottagelg]

I don't have a lot of experience with the topic...but I have been following your story.

 

I think that many couples and R after an affair and be that happy couple in the photos.

 

Unfortunetly, I am not sure your husband is remorseful enough to be that man for you.

 

You suspected and he made you to look like you were worrying over nothing and crazy.. he made you think that way to get what he wanted. If he truly wanted your marriage to work, he would have stopped the moment you suspected (or you know, not done it at all)..

 

I think you have a unique story here, the betrayal you have faced is some of the deepest I've read on this board.

 

(( )) hugs..

[longjourney]

I don't have a lot of experience with the topic...but I have been following your story.

 

I think that many couples and R after an affair and be that happy couple in the photos.

 

Unfortunetly, I am not sure your husband is remorseful enough to be that man for you.

 

You suspected and he made you to look like you were worrying over nothing and crazy.. he made you think that way to get what he wanted. If he truly wanted your marriage to work, he would have stopped the moment you suspected (or you know, not done it at all)..

 

I think you have a unique story here, the betrayal you have faced is some of the deepest I've read on this board.

 

(( )) hugs..

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply. So you are saying my WH's behavior during his LTA and NOT ending it when he KNEW I was becoming suspicious is not the norm for the WH? Does that mean he has even deeper wayward behavior and I am fighting an even more up hill battle then most. I wish someone could just hand me the answer on a card if he can EVER be trustworthy, especially since IC/MC is not truly a top priority of his. Can he be corrected without help?

 

 

Since his LTA I have thought about all of his pre A dating history. I am talking about pre us even dating seriously. My WH has such a highly sexual history it makes me wonder why I never thought of it before. I just shrugged it off to a man being a man, but my IC says there is more to it with him. He has a disregard for others that he has to deal with. My IC said he is very selfish and his sexual needs are VERY high on his list of needs that he wants met. He is the type to like the excitement with other women whether it be thru porn or the OW. She said he will never be happy with me, I am not his sexual equal (in his mind) and he will not be faithful until he looks into this. She said he may remain faithful for a while even a few years, but he will continue with his outlet in porn and eventually another woman.

 

 

That is what I am dealing with this week. :-(

[cozycottagelg]

I do feel like the battle you are fighting is more uphill than most, based solely on what I'm reading here.

 

I remember a post on here where you knew what had happened and you were trying to R..and then you found the phone in the closet. It just seems like you were fed lie after lie after lie...right in your face, all the time.

 

I'm not saying that other BS's on here haven't faced extreme devastation...but when I read your posts I feel so sad and angry for you.

[drifter777]

I have become more jaded about reconciliation as time goes on. If there are no children in the marriage I flatly don't think reconciliation is worth all the pain, anger, humiliation, and time - wasted time. When kids are involved the BS has to decide whether they are willing to sacrifice their self-respect and swallow all of the strong emotions they feel for what they believe is best for their children. Repairing the damage to the marriage is secondary, and it's a crap-shoot whether the BS will ever forgive their WS. When a BS chooses to R they often do it out of weakness but there is a payoff in giving your kids a stable, secure environment. Of course you could have given them that if you divorced the cheater just as well, but that choice was fraught with uncertainty and fear - too scary for some.

 

Fear of confrontation is a defense mechanism learned in childhood. It served you well when you needed to avoid an abusive parent or whatever, but is no longer needed when you are an adult. Too bad it's so hard to overcome such a damaging trait.

[longjourney]

Drifter777

 

 

When you wrote:

 

 

When kids are involved the BS has to decide whether they are willing to sacrifice their self-respect and swallow all of the strong emotions they feel for what they believe is best for their children. Repairing the damage to the marriage is secondary, and it's a crap-shoot whether the BS will ever forgive their WS. When a BS chooses to R they often do it out of weakness but there is a payoff in giving your kids a stable, secure environment. Of course you could have given them that if you divorced the cheater just as well, but that choice was fraught with uncertainty and fear - too scary for some.

 

 

That is exactly my point. Why should we teach our children that is okay to stay with someone who has lied and cheated and loved someone else FOR YEARS. My parents did exactly that and here I sit, with low self esteem and I was too afraid to stand up for myself and have my WH end the A when I "knew" there was something going on, instead it continued for two more years. My mind finds it boggling how a BS can "forgive" her WS after forsaking EVERY vow that was was taken (in my case RIGHT after those vows were said) and turn the other cheek. However the OW is the horrible, evil UNFORGIVIBLE one. IT TAKES TWO, and in my case my WH is the one who propositioned the OW.

 

 

I have also found myself thinking about my WH's "reasons" for cheating. He said it started because we weren't having "a lot of sex". That was his ridiculous reason. That is definitely not the case and more importantly, that is not a valid reason. That is HIM putting HIS choices on ME. It was his feelings for her, and lack of feelings for me to do what he did. I got pregnant about a year into his A and he continued, all through my pregnancy, the birth and obviously years after. He needs to explore what it was in HIM that allowed him to do this. How could he be at the hospital with me, have our baby and go off and text the OW?? He was NEVER really THERE with me was he?

 

 

He has had many sexual relationships in his life, many just sexual. I do not consider him a SA, but he does love to look at beautiful, usually naked women. Even now after his LTA, he still continues to look at those kinds of things on the web. But that is not my concern at the moment, but it does hurt me deeply and even now after my IC I STILL find myself afraid to tell him this is hurting me, because I don't believe it would change, and he should be changing his behavior himself. I am still distant from him and D papers are still on the table.

 

 

My main focus is my kids, and how I will be able to handle them alone, without my WH's help. Do I want to do this to my kids? Like I said, if it weren't for my child (and step child) I would not be here. But as you said Drifter, I have to realize that I can give my child/children a secure happy life, just another fear/insecurity I have about myself. Thank you for helping me realize that if I stay that might well be me being selfish and scared and me choosing not to do all the hard work it would take to be a single mother. I rely on my WH a lot to do the daily things around the house, that would no longer be. Do I want to live that life?

[confusedandhurt2002]

I'd love to comment here, but it seems like a lot of conflict is involved. *burying head in sand* so maybe not......

[confusedandhurt2002]

If he doesn't want IC or MC then I'd say he can't be helped or changed because he doesn't want to. My WH wanted IC almost immediatly after I found out. It always bothers me I had to find out for him to stop, but the fact he wanted MC and IC and we were in a MC's office within a week does mean something to me, despite my anger toward him. He has said to be more than once, "Do you understand, I want to change for you...not for her."

 

His was with a ex girlfriend who I think he had to prove himself to because she cheated on him years ago.

 

My WH is screwed up in the head in a lot of ways, but he's also looking for the reasons why. I've watched him actively look. Sure there are days he's still an ass and much of the time I question every motive, because I'm only about seven months out. But if he wasn't looking for any kind of answers or making any effort, a child between us or not, he'd be out the door, or I would.

 

Thank you for your reply. So you are saying my WH's behavior during his LTA and NOT ending it when he KNEW I was becoming suspicious is not the norm for the WH? Does that mean he has even deeper wayward behavior and I am fighting an even more up hill battle then most. I wish someone could just hand me the answer on a card if he can EVER be trustworthy, especially since IC/MC is not truly a top priority of his. Can he be corrected without help?

 

 

Since his LTA I have thought about all of his pre A dating history. I am talking about pre us even dating seriously. My WH has such a highly sexual history it makes me wonder why I never thought of it before. I just shrugged it off to a man being a man, but my IC says there is more to it with him. He has a disregard for others that he has to deal with. My IC said he is very selfish and his sexual needs are VERY high on his list of needs that he wants met. He is the type to like the excitement with other women whether it be thru porn or the OW. She said he will never be happy with me, I am not his sexual equal (in his mind) and he will not be faithful until he looks into this. She said he may remain faithful for a while even a few years, but he will continue with his outlet in porn and eventually another woman.

 

 

That is what I am dealing with this week. :-(

[tired girl]

I have had to look at my reasons for staying in my M when I knew what was happening. My H didn't have a LTA, but he had many crossed boundaries and EA's with women that he worked with and I knew in my heart that this was happening. Like you I was told that I was crazy, and jealous. I was gaslighted for years.

 

I have come to understand that my childhood made me a prime candidate to sit in my M and tolerate this. I have had to forgive myself for tolerating this, and allowing it to change me. I finally caught him, and he has changed, and gone to IC. Had this not happened I wouldn't be here.

 

Is your H changing?

[Spark1111]

Drifter777

 

 

When you wrote:

 

 

When kids are involved the BS has to decide whether they are willing to sacrifice their self-respect and swallow all of the strong emotions they feel for what they believe is best for their children. Repairing the damage to the marriage is secondary, and it's a crap-shoot whether the BS will ever forgive their WS. When a BS chooses to R they often do it out of weakness but there is a payoff in giving your kids a stable, secure environment. Of course you could have given them that if you divorced the cheater just as well, but that choice was fraught with uncertainty and fear - too scary for some.

 

 

That is exactly my point. Why should we teach our children that is okay to stay with someone who has lied and cheated and loved someone else FOR YEARS. My parents did exactly that and here I sit, with low self esteem and I was too afraid to stand up for myself and have my WH end the A when I "knew" there was something going on, instead it continued for two more years. My mind finds it boggling how a BS can "forgive" her WS after forsaking EVERY vow that was was taken (in my case RIGHT after those vows were said) and turn the other cheek. However the OW is the horrible, evil UNFORGIVIBLE one. IT TAKES TWO, and in my case my WH is the one who propositioned the OW.

 

 

I have also found myself thinking about my WH's "reasons" for cheating. He said it started because we weren't having "a lot of sex". That was his ridiculous reason. That is definitely not the case and more importantly, that is not a valid reason. That is HIM putting HIS choices on ME. It was his feelings for her, and lack of feelings for me to do what he did. I got pregnant about a year into his A and he continued, all through my pregnancy, the birth and obviously years after. He needs to explore what it was in HIM that allowed him to do this. How could he be at the hospital with me, have our baby and go off and text the OW?? He was NEVER really THERE with me was he?

 

 

He has had many sexual relationships in his life, many just sexual. I do not consider him a SA, but he does love to look at beautiful, usually naked women. Even now after his LTA, he still continues to look at those kinds of things on the web. But that is not my concern at the moment, but it does hurt me deeply and even now after my IC I STILL find myself afraid to tell him this is hurting me, because I don't believe it would change, and he should be changing his behavior himself. I am still distant from him and D papers are still on the table.

 

 

My main focus is my kids, and how I will be able to handle them alone, without my WH's help. Do I want to do this to my kids? Like I said, if it weren't for my child (and step child) I would not be here. But as you said Drifter, I have to realize that I can give my child/children a secure happy life, just another fear/insecurity I have about myself. Thank you for helping me realize that if I stay that might well be me being selfish and scared and me choosing not to do all the hard work it would take to be a single mother. I rely on my WH a lot to do the daily things around the house, that would no longer be. Do I want to live that life?

 

I think that sort of life will slowly erode you to your very core, LJ.

 

The fact that you are asking these questions shows how much you care about what is at stake.

 

Many BSs are conflict-avoidant because they simply do not care if their spouse cheats as long as the bills are paid or the dinner made and kids tended to.

 

And I personally would never judge a mother or father who self-sacrifices their romantic needs for the sake of her children.

 

But I doubt any of them are posting at LS. It seems to me those who post here are in pain because they truly loved and trusted the SOB.

 

if you were truly conflict-avoidant, you would not be HERE asking tough questions.

 

Please forgive yourself for turning a blind eye while your gut twisted. if that is the environment you grew up in, then it could not seem so abnormal to you.

 

Are you sure she was his ONLY OW? I ask because he does have all the characteristics of a SA, and whether you stay or go, he may never truly change.

 

he will be a good boy for awhile, but then....the old ways will return.

 

And who is to say he will not continue to do things around the house or for the children should you divorce?

 

The choice is yours. Please choose peace and free yourself of pain.

 

It is most likely his ridiculous actions had nothing to do with you. Addicts, in denial, always blame everyone and everything around them.

[carhill]

OP, fMM here....my exW also demonstrated, and admitted to, a fear of conflict during our M and I firmly believe that the both of us going through MC helped her work through that and feel positive about divorcing me. While the process wasn't necessarily pleasant, I hope she's a healthier person for having gone through it. That year-plus of constant psychological counseling appeared to strengthen her resolve. Having had recent contact with her, I still get a sense that she lacks confidence in certain areas but she seems to have things stabilized on the relationship front and has been living successfully with another man since we split up. Hopefully, those issues we faced are resolved and a fulfilling life ensues. Only so much life and for us it's getting short.

[jnel921]

I have experienced infidelity twice in two respective M's. I suspected in my 1st M that my XH was up to something. With enough digging I uncovered the truth? We had a 1 year old son and I was pregnant with our daughter. The hurt he put me through was unacceptable. Just because we had kids was no excuse for me to keep him. So it sounds like any excuse and fear keeps you there.

 

I felt that my XH did not want to be with me. He even said he didn't love me. So why hang on or try to convince him? I am so much better than that and deserve better than that. So it was easy to put him out and D.

 

FF 15 years later in my second M I have to deal with Infidelity again. Except this time I felt the opposite. My H wanted us. Now I could have stayed angry and told him to get the f$&@ out too. But I decided to take a minute and collect my thoughts and decide if he was coming from a genuine place.

 

I think when you stay with someone because of convenience there is never really any true peace. I wouldn't trust the feelings of the WS. I am sure they know and are ok with it. I would think they would continue contact with the AP as they know their BS is going no where.

 

I never wanted to be that person. Why are you? Life is full of opportunities and so much more than you know. We can't go through life feeling afraid and making excuses. You turned your cheek to the truth. You allowed your H to convince you that you were thinking crazy and now what?

 

You have to decide if you can live like this. Hope it works out for you.