whichwayisup Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 She has been at home for 16 years...the past few doing nothing productive really. She was going to get some part time job, every other weekend at a hospital, but wouldn't start the day they wanted her to start because one of the kids had a horse show...like they couldn't manage without her. See you do not know this unless you've been a fly on the wall. Sorry but you are only hearing his side of things. Bolded. Hey, if you ever ARE REALLY going to be part of those kids lives, be a 'friend' to them and maybe eventually a step mom to them, you better learn to respect his wife, aka the mom of their children. The hate coming out in your threads about her really is unwarranted. And yes, those kids can't manage without her. They are YOUNG teens, and one isn't a teen yet. Sorry that i'm being blunt here but much of this is your problem as your thoughts and anger is driving your attitude about this overall. Show some compassion here, then maybe you won't feel the way you do about it all. 1
Popsicle Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 He probably doesn't want to have any more children, but you're a woman in her 30's who wants kids, and women in their 30's are in a big hurry to get married and have kids and this scares the bunga out of men. My gut tells me that you two are on a different page, but he is too scared to say. 2
sunburned Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 OP, once again, you know NOTHING about her life. You know what you hear from your very biased MM, filtered through your impatient OW brain. Raising three kids is a very productive way to spend a day or a life. You already said you're looking forward to staying home after you have a child. You show how little you know about motherhood by saying it's hardly a life. So what if she plays tennis and has coffee with a friend? You say it like she's engaged in something sinister, like running a crack house or having an affair (!). They probably decided together she would stay home while he worked. It is clear to me you just want her life. You said you want time off after the baby. Furthermore, most OWs claim their MM were having problems or separated before she (the OW) came along. Of course, I'm sure it's true in your case. Those kids are still young! A couple of my kids are in the same age range. They are very demanding years in terms of school work, activities, socialization, puberty . They need their parents. Granted, not every family can have one home full-time. But it sounds like they could afford it and they did it. I find it telling that you are expecting the same lifestyle but he will probably be keeping less than half his salary post-D. If you do have children, you will realize their activities do take up a lot of time and some of them (that are gear/equipment heavy) really need a parent along. One of my kids plays soccer. It's pretty easy for me to drop her off at a game and leave. I don't because one of the joys of parenthood is watching your child in action. But a horse show? That is not a drop off activity. They also tend to be a little farther afield and require all day or weekend travel. As Hermione G stated, my kid schedule is crazy -- busier than when I had a full day in the OR. You have no idea what it's like to take care of anyone other than yourself. You have no idea what it's like to be up all night with a sick child then still have to be up before 6 to get everyone (not just yourself) ready for the day .... breakfast served, lunches made, homework in backpacks, sports equipment ready, cereal splattered book report reprinted, missing jacket search, broken earring fixed. All before the bus comes at 7 for one and you leave at 7:15 to drop off another (s). It will be a rude awakening. What's really troubling is that you don't sound like you're ready to be a step-mother. If you marry this man, his xW and children will always be part of your life. Those poor kids are going to need a lot of love and attention after this D (if there's a D). If his wife relapses (more likely with the additional stress you are adding), he is all the more likely to become the primary parent in a D. But getting back to your ludicrous original question. No, you don't talk to her!! You think YOU (of all people) are going to talk her onto the divorce fast track? You will only do yourself a disservice by opening your mouth. You still have a LOT to learn about marriage and motherhood. You might want to reconsider both. 6
waterwoman Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I am a working mother. I have always worked fulltime apart from the first few years of my third child's life when I was only working 30 hrs a week. Did I want to? Nope. I loved my job and i love being a mum, but I would have liked the chance to do either job properly rather doing both jobs half-cock, exhausting myself and feeling constantly inadequate. And there were times when my children all at different times told me they wished I could stay at home. I don't for a single moment think I seriously neglected them in any emotional or material way but it was always stressful and hard and I wasn't the best parent I potentially could have been. I have spent the last 17 years in a rush, never had time to sit and enjoy being a parent and allowing my kids to simply BE with me. A SAHP is a vital asset to an entire family. Worth a small fortune of anyone's money. Now after all this time you expect her to simply up and get a job - she is ill, she has been out of the job market for a long time and has probably lost confidence, her marriage has broken down and she is being hassled about a divorce that maybe she doesn't want. Show some compassion. Stop trying to rush her out of your lives.
Author NotOW35 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 When I was in my early teens, I walked home from high school and would babysit my neighbor's kids. And yes...they WERE separated when I met him. How do I know? I was at the MM's house. A different house than his wife. Isn't this a section of this site for OWs?
HermioneG Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 When I was in my early teens, I walked home from high school and would babysit my neighbor's kids. And yes...they WERE separated when I met him. How do I know? I was at the MM's house. A different house than his wife. Isn't this a section of this site for OWs? This is a public website. It is carefully moderated. It is not exclusively populated by people involved in an affair. You will get many perspectives. You have been responded to by betrayeds, past and current affair partners, and people who have never been touched by infidelity in this thread. A big cross section. If you have an issue with a particular posting, you should let moderation know. I am glad you understand what it is like to be a teenager. However, parenting a teenager is a different situation, and the lifestyle choices that your boyfriend and his wife made together are what determine how they raise and treat their children. I am glad you are positive they were separated when they met. That helps clarify the relationship, however, as he is still entangled with his wife, and will be forever, you need to decide where you wish to be in all of this. Frankly- a man on his situation is not a good bet for a longterm relationship. He hasn't properly ended this one. You can do a search on Loveshack on situations similar to this. There have been multiple threads like this before, and some have been updated to reflect what happened further out. You may find them helpful.
veryhappy Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 This topic became an ode to sahm. There's no need for a mommy war. The bottom line is the same even if the issue was that she was a traveling professional not tucking the kids in at night enough. The bottom line is that while you are free to have your options and judge her, you shouldn't fucus on that. I am trying to tell you that your problem is him and his wife is entirely his problem. Do not make her your problem. He's benefitting by keeping the focus on her. You hate her instead of forcing a move in your life. Trust me, I've been there and it sucked. I knew way too much and thought way too much of someone i didn't want to occupy my head space. There's a difference between normal conversation and overloading someone to keep a triangle alive. So what are you going to do? Can you write a response without mentioning his wife please? 7
whichwayisup Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I am trying to tell you that your problem is him and his wife is entirely his problem. Do not make her your problem. He's benefitting by keeping the focus on her. You hate her instead of forcing a move in your life. ^^This! CD is right, as myself and others have told you too, the issues are with him, not his wife. You were never a part of her life, so don't even try to wedge yourself in there now by contacting her. If you do (and I really hope you don't) expect her to tell you to f-off and mind your own business. She will then turn to her husband and tell him to get you off her back, and that's going to cause a lot of drama for all of you. You haven't mentioned a time limit - How long do you intend on staying idle with him? A year? Two years? Summer's end? 1
MissBee Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I have been in a serious relationship with a MM for over a year. He is separted from his alcoholic wife. They have been living apart for almost two years but he is not yet divorced, and the divorce has been going on close to four years. I love him. I want to be with him. I am 15 years younger, and want to have kids. He already has kids, so he doesn't feel the same pressure. I want to be with him, but don't want to waste much more time waiting for his divorce to finish so we can marry. His wife wouldn't take his settlement offer so there will be a trial. Plus she has been making claims to part of a trust he has, so there is a civil case. I really wish she'd just stop it and let him move on. She doesn't even work. And, she has said in court that she doesn't plan on working, even though the three kids are now in their teens. How long do I wait? Should I talk to the wife? I met her for the first time this weekend at his daughters school event. I am so invested, and yet I don't see an end to this. Anyone been through this? Help/support. Thanks. Why would you talk to his wife? I don't think that's your place to do so neither will you doing so help, if anything it will only aggravate the situation. It's THEIR divorce to sort out and you don't get a say, except to decide for yourself if you want to deal with this or not. How long you wait is up to you. What does the MM say about it? Does he even want to get married again?
Quiet Storm Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 If you do have your heart set on being a mom, you should seriously consider choosing another partner. I have been reading here for years and one of the reasons I post on this forum is because it bothers me to see so many women who want to be moms, wasting years on a MM. Being a mom is one of the most beautiful and rewarding parts of our lives. Most of these MM do not even consider this. Their OW's fertility is not even on their radar. This shows that they don't have their OW's best interests at heart, and are not considerate of her hopes, dreams and life goals. It is a common story- an older MM that already has kids keeps OW on a string for years, dangling the carrot of "marriage & kids", while precious time is passing by. OW eventually gets fed up, but by the time she heals & opens her heart to another man, it may be too late. We hear stories about the "surprise" pregnancy of our 40 year old neighbor, or see celebrities having babies later in life and assume this is a smooth, natural & uncomplicated process- it's not. They are the exceptions. Many women that wait until their late 30s to try for children find that it is more difficult to get pregnant than they ever imagined. Even at the young age of 35, 1/3 of couples have problems conceiving. At 40, only half that try are able to conceive. There are also a higher probability of complications with pregnancy and the health of the baby. You are taking a huge risk if you assume that you will be one of the lucky ones. Consider harvesting your eggs if you are going to wait years for this man, and put enough money away to pay for fertility treatments. Many people must pay out of pocket for this and it can be up to $15K per cycle. I also agree that you are focusing too much on his wife. Understand that by him blaming it all on her, it takes your focus off of him. You view him as a victim of his circumstances, but fail to see how his own actions (or lack of) are contributing. As long as you two are allies against a common enemy (his wife), he doesn't have to be accountable. Blaming her allows him to coast in limbo, and by feuling your anger he avoids responsibility. You can judge her and condemn you all you want to, but that isn't going to help your situation. Doing that just gives your power away. You are in control of your life & the path that it takes. Not her. Not him. They are doing their own dysfunctional dance & will knock you down in the process. Just understand that your compassion, your patience, your love, your dedication for him could derail your hopes, dreams & plans for the future. This man may be exceptionally special & perfect for you, but at what expense? Make sure your expectations of this man & your realtionship are realistic. 8
MissBee Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 He says that if he has a child with me while the divorce is still underway, the money spent on the baby will be from "marital assets" and spending marital assets on our relationship is a no-no in the eyes of the court. Technically, it is adultery, as he is married, but separated. The judges don't really care about relationships which were started after the divorce was filed, but spending money on a relationship is not good. He usually pays cash when we do stuff together so when his wife subpoenas his finanacial records it isn't obvious if we've gone away together or whatever. It really pisses me off that we have to be sneaky about normal couple things because the marital assets haven't been divided. How about rehab for the wife??? Her bill was like 30K and there was a bill for 8000.00 which wasn't covered by insurance and my bf got stuck paying it. For her freakin' alcoholism. How is that fair? Because he is married to her and she's the mother of his children...HELLO...that's how that's fair. She isn't some random woman on the streets. Her well being and her problem with alcohol affects his life and his children's lives. In any case, his wife isn't the one doing anything to you. I second cutedragon's suggestion that you take matters into your own hands and become informed about laws and how things work so that you can have a better idea about whether or not what your MM is saying about his divorce is true. Where does MM live? 4
Quiet Storm Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 He says that if he has a child with me while the divorce is still underway, the money spent on the baby will be from "marital assets" and spending marital assets on our relationship is a no-no in the eyes of the court. Technically, it is adultery, as he is married, but separated. The judges don't really care about relationships which were started after the divorce was filed, but spending money on a relationship is not good. He usually pays cash when we do stuff together so when his wife subpoenas his finanacial records it isn't obvious if we've gone away together or whatever. It really pisses me off that we have to be sneaky about normal couple things because the marital assets haven't been divided. How about rehab for the wife??? Her bill was like 30K and there was a bill for 8000.00 which wasn't covered by insurance and my bf got stuck paying it. For her freakin' alcoholism. How is that fair? I think your attitude about her alcoholism is very immature. This is the children's mother. Her health & well being has a huge impact on their children. It's not fair!? Pause your tantrum and think about the cards these kids were dealt. An alcoholic mom? A dad that's already planning his next family with a woman that hates their mom? What is fair about that? I really don't mean to be harsh, but this whole situation does not only impact you. Where is the empathy for his kids? Everything else you describe regarding finances is a consequence of dating a divorcing man. This is why this is not considered to be a smart choice. You are upset because this relationship isn't following your intended plan. All of these issues are complicating your future dreams of an engagement, marriage & family. This is not his wife's fault, though. It's your fault for choosing an incompatible partner. A separating man is not compatible with what you want in your life right now. You are not on the same page. A single man would be a much better match for you. You are tolerating these circumstances because you love the man, I get that. But you have to love yourself, too. This isn't about whether or not you two love each other. It's about whether or not he is in a position to provide you with the life you want. She is acting in her best interests by going to trial & filing a civil suit. It is not in her best interest to consider your fertility timetable. That's your job. She is protecting her interests. He is protecting his interests. You need to protect your interests. It is quite possible that it is not in your best interests to put your future in this man's hands. 4
Speakingofwhich Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 You are in control of your life & the path that it takes. Not her. Not him. They are doing their own dysfunctional dance & will knock you down in the process. So much said in this sentence. They are doing their own dysfunctional dance and it may knock you down in the process is a truth worth pondering for many OW/OM. Note I changed "will" to "may." But the kernel of truth remains! 2
Anne Boleyn Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 He says that if he has a child with me while the divorce is still underway, the money spent on the baby will be from "marital assets" and spending marital assets on our relationship is a no-no in the eyes of the court. Technically, it is adultery, as he is married, but separated. The judges don't really care about relationships which were started after the divorce was filed, but spending money on a relationship is not good. He usually pays cash when we do stuff together so when his wife subpoenas his finanacial records it isn't obvious if we've gone away together or whatever. Something about the fish he's trying to sell you seems to smell... In our state, when you file legal separation or submit you divorce papers, that's the line in the sand... You've announced the marriage is over and you want the legal aspect to catch up with the actual social/living aspect. All assets, everything that happens after those papers are filed... They're not marital assets. They're his assets. Yes, they still factor into the divorce in distributing assets... Like if he buys a house after, she's entitled to no part of the money from it, but the court will weigh out that when they consider what to do with their marital home... If he's fighting to keep it, the court will be less inclined to award it to him if he already has one, for example. But after the papers are filed, she's not automatically entitled to a portion of assets or income post filing. In fact, in our state, when my husband filed, it was the opposite. Everything after those papers were filed... His ex couldn't touch. Anything that went into his 401k, any assets he got (like a car, house) after that point, she wasn't entitled to. Actually, after he filed, he did go out and buy a new car because his old one was on it's last legs and it became cheaper to buy a new one than fix all that was wrong with his old one... She found out, got upset, and tried to attach it to her settlement on the grounds that her car was also old, on its last legs, and she needed it for the kids. After her lawyer told her it wouldn't be honored because it was purchased after he filed, the judge summarily rejected the request as the purchase of a new car was a "reasonable living expenditure after a change of marital living status." Meaning people who get divorces may need to buy new cars of themselves to maintain their lifestyle. As far as the relationship goes, if he took you to a family event where she is present, it's reasonable to assume that he's not hiding that he's in a relationship. So obviously, he's not scared of people knowing... But why the cloak and dagger about what the court will think? If you started dating after he separated and she has no proof or suspicion of anything different, again, especially in the case of a prolonged divorce... The court will expect that one or both parties will be dating... And it seems odd to say that he doesn't want the court to know about the relationship or making it official by getting engaged for fear of being penalized, yet he brings you to events where you meet his ex. These are totally contradictory actions. Again, in our state, we were living together during his divorce and I was the OW and he did leave to be with me... The court did. Not. Care. At all. Not even a little that we were together and engaged despite his not being divorced. It was no factor in their judgments that we were together and engaged (and the grounds for divorce wasn't adultery, so that never came up either... When she told the judge we were living together and engaged, his exact response was "So what?"). Again, the papers were filed, so what he did after the filing was his business as far as the court was concerned. And FYI, during the divorce I was pregnant, and the only factor that had in the divorce proceedings was actually positive from a financial prospective... The division of assets and setting of child support factored in a third child and the cost to support the child, not just the two he had with her. If you got pregnant, it wouldn't be a penalty in a decision for the divorce... He's legally obligated to support that child and it's factored in when deciding things like child support and livable income. Any money he spends on the child from his regular income, unless he's selling a marital home or pulling from his 401k, is his to spend as he chooses, including supporting a child. So like I said, something's up... Either he's getting bad legal advice, or he's assuming without the benefit of legal advice, or he's found a convenient excuse to placate you on questions that may have conflicting answers to what you wish for the relationship. Now, you won't be able to pack up the paperwork and bring it to a lawyer and have him look it over to give you advice (it's illegal for a lawyer to give you legal advice to a legal proceeding you're not involved in... Trust me, I tried), but he can, or he can with you present so you can hear it for yourself. I wouldn't take on face value some of the things he's saying because they just don't add up. It really pisses me off that we have to be sneaky about normal couple things because the marital assets haven't been divided. How about rehab for the wife??? Her bill was like 30K and there was a bill for 8000.00 which wasn't covered by insurance and my bf got stuck paying it. For her freakin' alcoholism. How is that fair? Sounds like rehab was before the divorce filing, so he's still on the hook to help with that if he's the insurance holder. And if he's made no demand for repayment as part of his settlement, she won't be obligated to pay any of it back. 2
Quiet Storm Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 You need to check the law in your state. In my state, Maryland, it is all marital assets until the date of absolute divorce. Not the date of separation and not if there is a "limited" or pending divorce. This includes, income, property, cars, retirement contributions, lottery winnings, etc. The only exclusion is inheritances unless there is a legal agreement like a prenup. You also have to be separated for a year before you can file for divorce, so all income earned and property purchased during that year are marital assets, up until the date of divorce.
Author NotOW35 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Posted February 13, 2014 Well, had a heart to heart with MM about this. He claims there isn't anything more he can do to expedite the divorce. I have decided to give it until June, then I'll move on. This sucks.
Owl Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 Well, had a heart to heart with MM about this. He claims there isn't anything more he can do to expedite the divorce. I have decided to give it until June, then I'll move on. This sucks. Where does he say that the divorce will be at by June? If he doesn't believe that he'll have it done by then...what's the value of setting that as a deadline? If it won't happen before then, then you should either call the affair off now, or set a deadline that you can live with that he thinks is possible...and if you can't agree jointly on such a deadline...end it now. Setting a deadline in the air that you either don't agree with, or that is unobtainable, is worse than useless...it continues the situation with no actual hope for change. 1
Author NotOW35 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Posted February 13, 2014 He thinks it may go to trial in June. In this state, marital assets are marital assets until the divorce is complete. Legal separation really means nothing other than you are the sole occupants of your respective homes, and custody has been divided in the form of an official parenting plan.
whichwayisup Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 He thinks it may go to trial in June. In this state, marital assets are marital assets until the divorce is complete. Legal separation really means nothing other than you are the sole occupants of your respective homes, and custody has been divided in the form of an official parenting plan. It's good you've put a deadline on this. If June comes along and there's no court date set or even close to being set, then yes, you should end it. You love him but you don't want to sit and wait another year or two, even more so since you want kids and a marriage, a life of your own with someone you love. Sadly, it seems it may not be with him.
veryhappy Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 Has he said anything on having a baby now regardless of the divorce status? That would, really show commitment, not a ring and not even getting married would make you a baby.
Snipercatt Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 Not, the "babies issue" is really important to you. Strongly consider having a frank and open discussion regarding this. Go so far as to let him know you would like to start soon. Why? To determine his REAL desires on the issue. If he balks saying that he can't say when the divorce will be final, etc., don't let it rest there. Find out how he feels if you start the day after the divorce is finalized, assuming that you are okay that he will be almost 65 when your first child will be 14.
Speakingofwhich Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 He thinks it may go to trial in June. In this state, marital assets are marital assets until the divorce is complete. Legal separation really means nothing other than you are the sole occupants of your respective homes, and custody has been divided in the form of an official parenting plan. Usually if a court date is set it will be postponed for up to as much as a few weeks. Have been through this quite a few times and know others who have, too. You must have patience when dealing with the court system, it can be very trying, excuse the pun.
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