Were you ever friends with the spouse?

January 17, 2005

I'm just curious. In my case, I "knew" the OM that my wife had her emotional affair with...the three of us played online games together quite a bit. She was always wanting the three of us to game together...I still don't quite understand why, and at this point, she's not really sure about what she was thinking back then either.

When it all came to a head, he made the comment that one of the big things that he regretted was the loss of the"friendship" between he and I. I'm not sure how honest that friendship was looking back on it, but I've wondered if this has ever happened to anyone else.

How many of you know your MM/MW's spouse? Spend any time with them? How do you keep them from REALLY knowing what's going on?

If this question offends anyone, please don't feel the need to respond. I'm not looking to judge...maybe just trying to get some perspective on things. Thanks!

January 17, 2005

Owl, as you know I am not the OW, but the W. I don't know how much you have read of my post about the OW but for 3 years that her and my H worked w/ him she tried to be my friend. The first night I met her at the company Christmas party I thought she seemed very nice, funny, and outgoing. H wasn't too fond of her at first. She showed me pictures of her infant dd, talked to me, ect. I left the party a little early b/c I wanted to go pick up our children from the babysitters as it was getting late. I told H he could stay at the party and hang out w/ his co-workers and have fun. When he got home he told me that after I left the OW approached him, said he smelled good, and then bit him on the neck. I disliked her after that. Everytime I went into see H at work she would come over and talk to me. I am not the type of person to tell her to get the he!! away from me and I didn't like her. Several times she would ask me to do backup daycare for her (I ran my own daycare business out of my home). Each time I told her no, I did not do backup care. I didn't trust her as far as I could throw her. Since I have talked to her several times in the past (mostly about her kids). I will never forget the last time I talked to her in person. She was in the office across the hall from H's office. When I walked passed she hollered "Hey!" to me and came flying out of the office door, ran up to me, and put her arm around my neck. I wanted to throw up!!!

That was b4 the A, about a year. H knew I couldn't stand her but he was starting to constantly talk about her. "T this, T that." I got so tired of it I finally flat out asked him if he wanted to sleep w/ her! He told me if he wasn't married! I got so sick to my stomach! How could he want HER? She wasn't attractive like me or his other GF's. She was nothing what H looked for in a woman. Everyone called her a skank.

Since I knew her, I felt a little more comfortable calling her and confronting her about the A. Of course she denied it, wanted to help me change H's mind about filing for a D. She tried being my friend again, and all the while she was probably screwing him!! H told me that she told him she was attracted to him and was the first to kiss him b4 I even knew he was fooling around.

As for your situation, I really don't understand why she would want to include you on her and this man's games. Maybe she had felt guilty and thought if you were there she wouldn't say anything she shouldn't be saying.

I am sorry Owl, it still seems you are still hurting (like I am). I hope you and your W can find peace in your M one day. I am still searching for it. My trust is slowing coming back but I feel like I am obessessed w/ hating (well, not hating, that is too harsh) the OW. I still want to see her in pain. I want her new BF to break it off w/ her and hurt her like she hurt me. I know it takes two to tango but yet I blame the OW more for the A than H. We were having marriage problems, and he thought he would make me happy by getting out of the marriage to find someone new. H knew this OW was attracted to him for years, he could of left me a long time ago for her. He was confused, didn't know if he wanted the D, said he moved too fast. She was just there clouding his judgement. She made him not know what he wanted. She could of stayed out of it. She even could of told him she was attracted to him but will not act on it until H knew what he wanted to do.

January 17, 2005

I can understand your pain, Stillhurtin. I can't really say that I hate the OM in our situation anymore...but I would never trust him back in either of our lives again either.

I have to admit that I am still hurting somewhat over it all... I love her with all of my heart. I just worry that somehow, someway, it could happen again. I know the steps we've taken to improve our marriage, and I know how much happier she seems in our marriage. She doesn't act like the same person who wanted to "run away" with someone else 8 months ago. Sadly, the problem really isn't with her...it's me. I have never been one who trusts easily or quickly. For a lot of reasons. So after being hurt like this, it seems doubly hard for me to get over it.

But the hurt isn't what it was 8 months ago...or even 3 months ago. It is fading, the trust is returning.

Thanks for the response, and for the well wishes. I was just curious how it worked out when the OW/OM knew the spouse...and how they dealt with that.

January 17, 2005

No, I have never met her. I've never seen her not even a picture.

She knows who I am and I believe she has seen pictures of me.

January 17, 2005

owl,

How many of you know your MM/MW's spouse? Spend any time with them? How do you keep them from REALLY knowing what's going on?

well over a year ago i had a "brief" affair with an MM (you may remember more of my story from what happened last year but this was before that). needless to say, it was a huge mistake and i think we both regret it a great deal. his W never found out, and i hope she never does. i know them both, and consider them both to still be friends, and see them both frequently, and did at the time as well. and i can tell you that it was hard because i knew that even though they were having problems (they had both told me that so it wasn't just an MM lie) i knew the pain it would cause everyone involved and i'm glad it ended before it was discovered. i had gone through a divorce and they had both asked me how i knew when the marriage wad really over. too much alcohol, wrong place, wrong time....big mistake! oddly enough, and i know this may sound strange, i think the whole thing may have "forced" him to give his marriage another try. i know Still said that the A left her H confused as to what he wanted. but, what my MM did realize was that if his marriage was going to be over, it had to be over in spite of me or anyone else. so they're trying to work things out. sadly, i don't think things are much better for them and i wish, at this point, there were some magic words i could say to them to help them out. they've grown apart over the years and i hope they'll be able to find their way back to each other. i've gotten closer to her since then, and at first the "guilt" i felt was awful. i don't think about it as much anymore but there are still times.....

because it was short lived, there wasn't as much to keep from her but i will tell you it was hard to be around her. i don't have a good poker face and i honestly don't even want to think about how much it all could have hurt her.

January 17, 2005

i dont know his w personally but before we met i worked at a mall and i would see her outside smoking shes a mean b**** stuck up rude and when i became friends with him i still didnt know that was her for a while i dont work there anymore but it would upset me when i saw her because she had what i wanted &didnt even take care of him as good as i do (emot&sexually)and after the affair began it was more painfull shes older then us and i dont know it would be harder knowing the w personally i guess i wouldnt have did it if i knew her

every saint has a past every sinner a future

January 17, 2005

Originally posted by lynnered
i dont know his w personally but before we met i worked at a mall and i would see her outside smoking shes a mean b**** stuck up rude and when i became friends with him i still didnt know that was her for a while i dont work there anymore but it would upset me when i saw her because she had what i wanted &didnt even take care of him as good as i do (emot&sexually)and after the affair began it was more painfull shes older then us and i dont know it would be harder knowing the w personally i guess i wouldnt have did it if i knew her

every saint has a past every sinner a future

Waoh!

Sorry Mr. Owl, but I have to say something about this ^

While I have nothing to say regarding your orignal question (and I'm sorry) I was floored when I read the above..

Lynnered, you've said in your response that the MM wife is a mean beeotch, that she is stuck up and rude.. and that she didn't/doesn't take care of him as well as yourself.. let me also point out to you the last thing you said.. that it would've been harder to have the affair with the MM HAD YOU KNOW the Wife personally..

With that being said.. how can you sit in judgement of HER when YOU, YOURSELF said you don't know her personally?

Uh.. glass houses and stones..

Sorry once again Mr. Owl...

January 17, 2005

well maybe i should have given more details (from other people)i have heard of her ways,from being outside smoking & hearing her act in her low class way,his father the way she has screamed &yelled at him in front of other family members, a casual friend knows her and of course from him so i guess i more know of her and dont like her ways ,i know its not always black or white but from all i know of her thats how i feel &also i know i take care of him better because of most of the things i do he says nobody has ever treated him this good

clean up your own backyard before you come knocking on my door

January 17, 2005

Like "Stillhurtin" I'm the W here. But my H, myself and his family have known the OW for years. She is his sister's BF and like a member of the family. Everyone knew of the affair (his family included) except me. Know one bothered to tell me and I saw no signs as we all lived states apart. 9 months later she had his baby and I "found out".

EVERYTHING has changed. We no longer visit with his family and he cut all ties with OW/OC. There were MANY other negative things from his family that led up to this decision, but I was (I should say "WE were") shown their true colors and I certainly don't want them to come involved in my marriage and cause more problems. If we are to succeed and give this marriage our all, then we CANNOT have a negative influence of any kind. We had to sever those ties. This has worked for us, but it may not work for everyone.

You have to decide what YOU are comfortable with. What can you live with and what can you live without? But I can say that (being on this side of things) I feel it hurts WORSE having an affair happen with someone you know and care about also. I would have rather it had been a stranger.

January 17, 2005

I was (and still am) very friendly with my MM's wife.

At the time that we were at the height of our "affair" (we never had sex) I felt guilty when I would see her. I don't know how she or my H never figured it out. We spent a great deal of time talking together and "gazing" at one another when we were together.

MM and I would make arrangements for the four of us to get together and socialize. It seemed the only way that we could spend blocks of time together. After a while, I started to feel as if we were making fools of our spouses. Neither of them had/have a clue.

She would confide in me about their marital problems and I remember feeling elated whenever she would complain about him or tell me how much he got on her nerves or what a huge fight they'd had. It always, somehow, reinforced that what I was doing wan't so bad.... since she seemed to hate him anyway.

Now that it's over, I think that my situation is similar to "izzybelle" in that I think MM and his W were/are having marital problems and our involvement gave him a reason to want to work it out with her. I know that he said that he didn't want "us" to be the reason for their breakup. (if they ever did break up)

She will still confide in me about some of their problems. I try to change the subject.

I still see them. She is very friendly with me. I have tried to distance myself from them a bit, as it still hurts me to be around him but certain reasons keep our lives intertwined.

January 17, 2005

Originally posted by Breathe

You have to decide what YOU are comfortable with. What can you live with and what can you live without? But I can say that (being on this side of things) I feel it hurts WORSE having an affair happen with someone you know and care about also. I would have rather it had been a stranger.

Even though I didn't "care" about the OW, it hurt worse knowing he had an A w/ someone I knew. If H was going to have an A I wished it would of been a stranger, not someone I knew for 3 years who tried to be a friend. It has been hard dealing w/ all this but actually knowing the OW, knowing what she was like, makes it harder.

Owl, how long did you have a friendship w/ the OM b4 you found out about their emotional A? Does it make it any easier on you to know that he is so far away and you will never have to worry about running into him anywhere? Or your W either? Do you know what he looks like? Sorry for all the ?, I was just curious.

January 17, 2005

Thanks all for the posts and thoughts. It's interesting to read your stories and compare them to what happened in my case as well.

To Izzy and StartingOver- I can imagine how it must be to feel that you were somehow involved in fixing their marriage. That's what's happened in our case too...the affair was a big huge eye opener for ALL of us. I realized just how unhappy my wife was, and just how far she'd go to be happy. She didn't realize that she'd gotten to the point where she would let something like that happen...and didn't take steps to stop it when it did get there. Our relationship is doing a lot better than it was...and a lot of it was due to what we learned from what happened.

I can try to imagine how hard it must have been to be with your MM's spouse. In our case, we never actually met in person, it was all online. And he (the OM) hated how she wouldn't IM him when the 3 of us were grouped together in game. (I wonder if you aren't right about her feeling guilty, and having the 3 of us together made her feel like what was going on was somehow less wrong...and kept her from "misbehaving" during that time). I did suspect things were going on toward the end, and had even dropped a few hints that I suspected something. He knew the end was coming before she did...he was paying attention to how I was acting and talking in game a lot more than she was.

Part of my issue is that he and I became friends through her...before the affair began. BUT...he'd admitted to her during the affair that he'd had feelings for her from the time that they "met". If that was the case, it just seems to follow that his whole friendship with me was an act to get what he wanted...my wife. He was pretty good at keeping things low-key...I only saw two things toward the end that told me something was going on between them. He was also the one who taught her how to cover her tracks on the computer...he's a tecno-geek for a living. (He just didn't realize I was as big a geek...LOL!)

At any rate...it was a hard thing for me to understand, since a lot of this took place with me right there with the two of them.

What's really interesting is that I knew a lot of couples that played online in the same MMORPG that I do...and it's ASTOUNDING to me to see how many other couples have had this exact same thing happen to them. I know of at least 5 couples that have ended up with one or the other involved in online emotional affairs due to online gaming. Scary, huh?

January 17, 2005

If that was the case, it just seems to follow that his whole friendship with me was an act to get what he wanted...my wife.

Sounds like my situation also, Owl. I honestly believe the OW was doing the samething to me too, wanting to become my friend to get closer to my H. He admitted to me the reason why she kept badgering me to watch her dd was to get closer to him, she told him. I could see her doing that. Dropping off and picking up her dd she would of stayed and chit chatted w/ dh so she could be around him more. She was already around 10 hours a day, 5 days a week! We were used by the OW/OM to get closer to our spouses.

January 17, 2005

This has been really interesting to read. Thanks to Mr. Owl for asking this question.

I think it has been "easier" for me because I dont know her, honestly she could walk by me on the street and I'd never know who she is. If I knew her, I dont think... no, I know I couldnt be in this situation.

There is no way at this point we would ever interact, short of her contacting me which she has the means to do. If she did want to talk to me, I would be as honest with her as I could. Last night, I asked MM if he just wanted to be friends... he gave a resounding "no". What scares me, is that if MM and I eventually end up together, that I would have to look her in the face at some point. What gets me even more is facing our families. I am tired of lying about this, and I want everyone involved to know the truth, most do. What they dont know is that this continues, through all the pain, the tears and the heartache. I know I am strong enough, what I question is if he is.

January 17, 2005

Alright....this Mr. Owl thing is making me feel old....I mean, c'mon...Mr. Owl would be my dad, right??? LOL

I can appreciate your position, Leaf. You'll never hear me say that anyone has an easy time of it in an affair...and I mean ANYONE.

I started the thread just to get an idea on what the OM/OW who knows the spouse thinks, and what their thoughts were during the affair. If this helps people to work through their own situation, so much the better.

My wife always said that she too regretted what this did to the friendship that the OM and I had. She still believes that his friendship with me was genuine in some ways, while I still struggle with understanding how that could truly have been the case. Of course, she's always been the trusting type, whereas I've always suspected the worst. One of my favorite sayings..."Just because you feel their is an enemy hiding behind every bush...doesn't mean that there isn't!".

Not knowing the spouse would seem to make it easier for the OP to have the affair, IMO. Its easier to forget about someone who is nameless/faceless to you, and to avoid thinking about them, what goes on when the MM goes home, and even what the impacts would be to the spouse when they find out the truth. It's not personal then.

Good luck in your situation...I hope it all works out the best possible way it can for ALL of you involved!

"Just" Owl

January 17, 2005

Thanks Mr. Owl

All kidding aside... I have some gaming buddies that ended up in the very same situation as you. All three gamed together, none of us knew until it was all over. The W had an A with another gamer who played with both H/W all the time. They had an emotional affair, but where intimate together online. The H/W are still together and the OM has been banished. When I heard about the whole thing, all I could think was.. how could OM do that to his Buddy? Everynight, pretending that nothing was going on.. the whole time knowing he is effing his W.

January 18, 2005

Originally posted by Owl
Not knowing the spouse would seem to make it easier for the OP to have the affair, IMO. Its easier to forget about someone who is nameless/faceless to you, and to avoid thinking about them, what goes on when the MM goes home, and even what the impacts would be to the spouse when they find out the truth. It's not personal then.

I very much agree with this. Like Leaf, I have also never met/seen (not even a picture) MM's W. He rarely speaks of her unless he's talking about little everyday things/he's talking about past things...not very often though. When he does speak of her he never ever bad mouths her, only says good things about her. I'm very glad about this, for some reason (and I know this may sound crazy since he's having an affair with me) but I think if he ever started to bad mouth her I'd lose all respect for him, like think of him as less of a man.

I do think not knowing her makes it "easier" though (as "easy" as a situation like this can be.) Once early on in relationship I told MM "I'm not like this. I don't go around hurting people. I'm a good person, I promise." He told me that I was a good person, and neither of us intended to hurt anybody. This may sound weird or stupid or hypocritcal, but because I love him so much, and he loves his family so much (and loves me as well) I care for his family and don't want them hurt - wife or kids - even though I've never met them. I even mention them in my paryers at night - hoping they're all safe. This is why 4 years later I still have never given MM ultimatum or "them or me".

I know that if I knew his W I'd never be able to handle the guilt.

January 18, 2005

Same here Scarletibis, MM never really mentions her and has never bad mouthed her.

January 18, 2005

Yep. I was very friendly with them both until he started in with me-then it was all an act from me. Well, not really, I was and am still friendly and would chat with her and mean it but now that things have progressed it FEELS phony, from my end.

In my case, it didn't really matter that I knew her. I do think I care about her feelings on some level-just not more than my own.

January 19, 2005

Owl, how long did you have a friendship w/ the OM b4 you found out about their emotional A? Does it make it any easier on you to know that he is so far away and you will never have to worry about running into him anywhere? Or your W either? Do you know what he looks like? Sorry for all the ?, I was just curious.

No sweat on the questions Still...just re-read the thread and saw them, so I figured I'd answer you back.

She had "met" him in game about 5 months before the affair came out. I "met" him in game around the same time frame...and that was about it for a while. Then I ran into him again about a month later, totally un-related to anything to do with the wife. He and I BS'ed a bit, and that was about it. Then the wife started playing with him game quite a bit, but since her and I weren't able to group together (hard to explain, it was a limit in the game), I didn't think anything of it. After a while, she started suggesting that the three of us run together (I had made some changes so that I could be with her now). The three of us gamed together for about 2 months or so before I realized what was going on...I THINK that it was around the time that we started running together that the affair really started...she's not very clear on the dates. She wasn't even when the affair was discovered...she'd been convinced that they'd been serious for a lot longer than they had...she looked at some of the info in game and realized that it hadn't been that long.

It is easier that he's not local, so I don't have to worry about him being around physically. The hard part is that he IS on the internet all the time...or at least was during the affair. I know that he quit playing the game we played shortly after the affair ended, or at least has never brought any of the characters that I knew back on again. But of course my worry is that if either of them decided to resume contact, the internet is always there. I'm sure that my wife hasn't forgotten his email address...I know I haven't.

As far as knowing what he looks like...he had (unbeknownst to me) sent my wife a digital picture of himself. At my wife's request, I'd also sent him pictures of our family...and my wife had sent him a few pictures of herself as well. Nothing bad...just photos we'd taken recently. I saw the picture of him while helping her clean everything off her computer after she'd decided to stay and reconcile. No idea how old the picture may have been though. She said that that was the only picture she'd ever had of him...and I've got no reason to doubt that.

Leaf- You know, I think that online games should come with a warning label on the box..."Warning: Playing this game may be hazardous to your relationships."

I think that online gaming can be risky. People "know" why everyone goes into chat rooms...so many people wouldn't think about doing that. But in an online game, you've got the same "blind" to hide behind, and it's not where you would expect that kind of person to be. So it's easy to find yourself drawn to someone in that kind of setting. That's why I think so many marriages suffer like mine has from online gaming. I think that it's easier to do something like this to an online friend too...it's not like he ever met me face to face, so it might have never occurred to him that someday he may have to.

The wife and I still game...but a lot differently than we used to!! LOL We're always together, there's no more secrets. She used to turn her screen "so that she could see better"...was to hide what was going on from me. Not anymore...we both talk about who we get messages from, and it's a lot more fun because now we're TOGETHER in game and out.

January 19, 2005

i have been with a mm for YEARS. yes i know his wife and have hung out together many times. my kids have sort of grown up with theirs. we've even spent the night with them on occasion. it is a complicated thing to do. i figured at first that being on a friendly level with her allowed me to hang out with him w/out the suspicion. and if she would start getting a little antsy about it then i would back off. i felt guilty for awhile but then you get so used to the way things are you fail to see it as being wrong anymore. it just becomes the way it is. me and the mm seem to have a "switch" so to speak , which is the ability to turn off and on the friend/lover button. it's kind of hard to explain.

January 20, 2005

Thanks Owl for answering my ?. I know it must be hard thinking he may try to contact her again via the net. I am sure your W knows by now she screwed up and wont do anything to ruin it again for you. She has a great H.

I know when we first got on the net H would play yahoo pool, a lot. He stayed up chatting as he played. He met a woman and was chatting w/ her every night as they played. One night I was online and she IM'ed me, thinking it was him. I said "This isn't A, this is his wife." She apologized and said she didn't know he was married! OMGosh, that is what pissed me off the most. I use to go to chat rooms for fun w/ my GF's but ALWAYS told any guy that I was married, always. She said that she just wanted a friendship w/ him and that she had a BF, blah, blah, blah. She told me she would leave him alone. She sent him pictures and he sent her some. H's is a good looking guy, and I am sure she seen his pictures and was interested. She stopped emailing and Im'ing him after that. He didn't like me chatting to guys, he shouldn't be chatting w/ women either.

January 23, 2005

i never even met my attached boyfriend's girlfriend. i've seen only two pictures of her in 5 years and both of those were accidental on his part. i've never talked to her.

while i can't say with 100% certainty since i've never been in the situation before, i think if i had known her it would have made a difference in how things happened and how they played out. it's not a good excuse to say it was easier because i didn't know her but it's the truth. if i knew her, i think i'd feel so bad about hurting someone that i actually knew that it would probably have put a stop to it or stopped things before they ever began. i do believe i know for sure that i could never pretend to be her friend.

January 24, 2005

Originally posted by littleflowerpot
my attached boyfriend

jumbo shrimp

pretty ugly

running in place

accidentally on purpose

January 26, 2005

free gift

military intelligence

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