Gut feeling that my partner cheated.. crazy thoughs, torturing myself..

February 6, 2014

Hi everyone, sorry this is long but I just really need some outside perspective on this and my self esteem is on the floor at this point. please just be honest and as abrupt as you like, i need people to tell me straight. any input is greatly appreciated:

Gut feeling that my partner cheated.. crazy thoughts, torturing myself....

I have a gut feeling that my boyfriend cheated on me but the evidence is really circumstancial so I have no real proof and I am torturing myself. The gut feeling is very strong though and I am not sure whether to trust this as a rational thought or not. It wasn't really what he did (details to follow) but it was more his reaction afterwards and how he handled everything that made him look very guilty.

Bit of background- we were together 2.5 years, things were amazing in the beginning and we were kind of in a bit of a bubble, always together and had cut ourselves off from friends a little too (unhealthy I know but that's what happened). he was very in to me in the beginning, almost obsessively but i felt him become distant lately. This distant feeling could be explained (i thought) because we both got new, demanding jobs and found ourselves preoccupied with those. I felt we were drifting apart, unable to see eachother as much and stopped doing things together as a couple like going out together which we had done a lot of in the beginning but yet we were rowing more when we did see eachother.

his job is very sociable and he was invited on a night out with his work colleagues for dinner. we had never really gone out without eachother prior to this- i know that isn't healthy but I had done the whole club/bar scene with friends prior to the relationship and felt ready to settle down abit, i didn't realise that would mean drifting away from my friends so much but it happened. if he was invited anywhere he always would have brought me along too, infact he would have insisted that I go and we did everything in our little twosome. but this time he went without me with his new work colleagues. i didn't think too much of it, it is his work and nothing to do with me so i respected that and off he went.

the problem was he kept saying in the weeks leading up to the event that he didn't really want to go, that he didn't really like his colleagues and right up to the night before he said he wasn't going. but he went. and i later found out he had always intended to go because he had paid his money weeks before. he told me that he had to go and i understood in some workplaces you can look antisocial if you don't take part in such things. but as he left it to the last minute to tell me he was going out, i couldn't make other arrangements and so that night while he was out I sat in the house by myself.

he told me it was just a dinner, that he wasn't drinking as they were new colleagues and he didn't want to get drunk and embarrass himself infront of them... but he got very drunk and i don't think he came home! we don't live together and i'm not his keeper, nor am i his wife but it is the lies that have hurt me because i am his long term girlfriend and feel disrespected- he texted and called a lot at the start of the night, and then nothing... so (stupidly) i called him around midnight to see if he was ok.. he answered eventually and told me he was asleep in bed- dispite the obvious echoe and blaring beat of the music in the background. but when i challenged him he got very angry and still swore to God he was home in bed and he sounded extremely drunk. he actually said 'i'm in bed at home if you don't believe me 'f*** off'

i didn't hear from after that until the next afternoon when he sounded extremely sheepish and very very guilty in his tone. any time that i asked about the previous night or what actually happened he would get very angry, lose his temper and give me no explanation- he actually put the blame on to me for daring to accuse him. for two whole weeks he still swore he was home in bed and sober when i called and this is the part that hurt me- i am supposedly an intelligent girl but he actually (quite convincingly) tried to say that i had imagined the background music and that i was 'mental' all he would say is 'stop going on about it, i was home in my bed' it was a very 'take it or leave it' type of attitude

a few weeks later he then admitted that he had stayed out later that night and that he had been still out while on the phone to me (which i knew) but he claims he went home shortly after this and wasn't drunk- even though he sounded very very drunk. there was no further explanation- if i mentioned it, he would snap and say 'it was weeks ago, why are you still going on about it?'

i believe he stayed out all night, i believe he got very drunk and because of his reaction i actually think he may have slept with someone else- i know that he didn't make it in to work the next day which is very unlike him. so in my head i was thinking he didn't make it in to work because he didn't wake up in his own bed. he also lost an expensive bracelet that i had bought him as an anniversary gift, it went missing on the night out but miraculously it turned up a few days later supposedly in his own house on the floow- why do i have a feeling he left it in someone elses house and they gave it back to him.

when i accused him of being a liar (which he proved himself to be) he would lose his temper and put the blame on to me and call me a psycho. i asked him if he cheated and he simply said 'if you believe that i can't be with you'

again no explanation of what actually occured, the temper, the putting the blame on to me makes me think he did. if he had even said 'i got drunk and fell asleep' or 'i got in a fight' anything, any explanation to make it not look so bad.. but he wouldn't talk about it. when we were going to break up over it and i asked him again to tell me he said 'if you want some kind of closure im not giving you that, i have nothing to say cus nothing happened'

there are lots of other factors but i really don't want this post to be any longer, i've really tried to make it brief.

basically, i know that no one here can give me my answer of whether he did or not cheat. but i guess i just want to know if you think the thoughts i'm having are rational or crazy- am i putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 100? i now look like a bunny boiler, and a crazy woman when i am just upet about being lied to. i feel that now he has new work friends he doesn't really need me, and didn't seem to care if we broke up or not- which would suggest to me there may have been someone else but maybe i am paranoid, he has tried to make me feel paranoid

and after writing this i realise i look like a doormat.. do you think this is a dumpable offence? or did he simply just want to stay out with the work friends and have fun? i just feel like i have been made a fool of but i would like an outside perspective. i am also angry that he had stopped wanting to make time to go out with me (like we used to) but was able to make time for the work people.. i hate myself because i sound so jealous and possessive, and i'm not that kind of person, i just don't know if i can trust him.

my friend told me that whether he cheated or not, he still lied and he didn't really care enough to fight for me when i called him on it so she thinks because there is no trust, thanks to his lies, i should end things. she also said that it was a major red flag that the bracelet was lost on the night and then turned up days later. he was very guilty about the missing bracelt and didn't actually tell me for a whole day that it was gone. also the fact that he lost it when he claimed to have been sober is very odd. i'm just upset though because i didn't do anything wrong, he is the one who went out, got drunk and did whatever, yet he is putting the blame on to me- saying it is my fault the relationship hasn't been working because i questioned him and was upset. i can forgive the drunkeness, but it is the lies that hurt and the turning the blame on me that i can't forgive.. and ofcourse the thought of him cheating makes me feel physically sick. he knows i would never forgive that which might explain why he didn't tell me anything.

do you guys think he cheated? (i know you can't really know, but based on what i have said)

please someone help me

Edited February 6, 2014 by California_Girl_87

February 6, 2014

and after writing this i realise i look like a doormat.. do you think this is a dumpable offence? or did he simply just want to stay out with the work friends and have fun? i just feel like i have been made a fool of but i would like an outside perspective.

do you guys think he cheated? (i know you can't really know, but based on what i have said) please someone help me

I think the fact that he lied to you repeatedly, and not in a little white lie kind of way, is revealing the truth incrementally only as necessary, that he's overtly blame-shifting, gas-lighting and playing the tRump card by essentially saying if you don't shut the phukk up it's over... means that it should be over. Your friend was right; when the trust is gone what do you have left? I know it's hard not to wonder if he slept with someone that night, but in this case I think it's really a moot point... unless you're willing to endure all of the crap he can dish out, right up to the point of dipping his wick in strange. Focus on what you know, what you're willing or not willing to accept. Clarify that in you own mind and you'll realize that you don't need to know every detail to know what's right for you.

February 6, 2014

thank you for your feedback, i really appreciate it. after i'd written the above i read over the story and realised, regardless of cheating or not cheating, he hasn't treated me well and he has lied a lot. I think it is dangerous also when a person tries to convince you that you are the crazy one, that you are imagining things- even though he'd been caught out- makes me think even if i had evidence or caught him red handed he still would never admit to cheating.

i guess i wanted people's opinions also on the whole blame-shifting thing and his 'put up or shut up' type of reply... is the blame shifting and the making me think i'm crazy a sign of his guilt of cheating?

February 6, 2014

That's not a question we can easily answer, but it's highly likely. And what he's doing is 'gaslighting'... it's a behaviour pattern named after a film in which a man did all kinds of crazy things round the house, then when his wife talked to him about it, he convinced her she was going mental....

Much as he is doing to you.

If you've read your first post and realised he's treating you badly, then everything else is sadly, academic.

Time to end this one.

And yes, he will blame you for the break-up too.

But we know different.

February 6, 2014

... is the blame shifting and the making me think i'm crazy a sign of his guilt of cheating?

No.

Those are signs that he does not take responsibility for his own actions...and is not holding you in high-enough regard, esteem or treating you with proper respect.

It will erode your own self-esteem, confidence...if you let it. Stay strong!

February 6, 2014

thanks tara maiden for your response

this is what i mean when i talk of it wasn't what he did, it was his reaction afterwards. lots of people go out and get stupidly drunk and come home late and behave like douches.. it was how he handled everything the next day, i heard the guilt in his voice, he'll say i'm mad ofcourse. I told him i had a gut feeling that something about that night didn't add up and he just said 'oh what, you're psychic now huh?!' very sarcastic and dismissive... when i told him he sounded guilty, he said he felt guilty about losing the bracelet.. but my head goes crazy thinking it is how he lost the bracelet- was he taking off his clothes to get into bed with someone... see there i go having the crazy thoughts again.

my post is really long and rambling but the main question was really about gut feeling and when to trust it- are my thoughts rational given the circumstances or am i crazy/paranoid like he says? because he has convinced me i am mad but when you know someone such a long time as i do with him, you know when they are lying, you can read them like a book.

and really my other question is, if we had to bet money here- would we bet that he did cheat? (based on his blame-shifting, angry response)

February 6, 2014

thanks everyone for responding- i had read an article online about guilty spouces and 'blame-shifting' and it made me think that his reaction proves he cheated because he just refuses to awknowledge that the night ever happened now and if i bring it up he threatens to end things.. i deserve to know.. i feel so weak and pathetic that i am not strong enough to challenge him when he refuses to talk about that night.. or maybe i am not strong enough to end it

February 6, 2014

Then ask yourself this:

What would he have to do, for you to end it?

How far would he have to drag you, before you declared 'enough is enough'...?

Are you really willing to let it get that far?

Is that what you want to live with and wait for?

February 6, 2014

I guess that in my head I know he has treated me like a piece of garbage with the lying, and not just that but no real apology when he was caught lying.. like it's my fault for hounding him. BUT the main thing that is bothering me is it is torturing me not knowing if he cheated- he wants to give things another go now and i feel like we are in limbo until i work this out but i physically can't b near him if he has been with someone else. I know the lying should be enough in itself to walk away. I just need to know if he cheated but i know he will never tell me. I guess that's why i posted on here- not to see whether or not i should end it, because i already know i should- but really to try to work out the likelihood that he cheated that night (based on the circumstance of the story and his reaction and his anger and blame-shifting)

February 6, 2014

You may never know for sure.

But one thing is certain:

He has cheated you out of the relationship you SHOULD have.

he has cheated you out of honesty, integrity, openness and respect.

he has cheated you by undermining your trust, and

he has doubtless cheated you out of effectively communicating with you and talking things over with you.

he is a liar and is fooling you left right and centre.

His disrespect for you is fathomless.

With all this, whether he wet his whistle elsewhere, frankly pales into insignificance.

February 6, 2014

yes that's true. he refuses to talk about that night, that's the bit i don't get. even if he had talked it over, explained he got drunk and apologised to me but he won't and the fact he wont talk about it makes it look worse, makes it look like he has cheated. he wants us to try again now but to carry on as if that night never happened, like we can just go back to how we were before and i can't mention it or i get my head bitten off.. like am i in the wrong here for being annoyed and wanting an explanation?! he says i'm 'nagging' when i try to talk about it....

February 6, 2014

are my thoughts rational given the circumstances or am i crazy/paranoid like he says? because he has convinced me i am mad but when you know someone such a long time as i do with him, you know when they are lying, you can read them like a book.

...and it made me think that his reaction proves he cheated because he just refuses to awknowledge that the night ever happened now and if i bring it up he threatens to end things..

You need to make some distinctions here. No, it's not rational to conclude that because your gut tells you something is amiss that it means he cheated. It's not rational to think that a bracelet going missing for a few days is evidence of cheating. It's also not rational be focusing almost exclusively on what you do not know rather than on what you do know. That's just emotionally driven, circular thinking and it will drive you crazy.

What we're telling you is, consider what you do know for a fact, together with what you should know about how you will not allow anyone to treat you, and kick his sorry, blameshifting, gaslighting, lying ass to the curb based on those certainties.

Yea, I understand that you'd like to know if he cheated but unless he admits it you're not ever going to know for certain. You're thinking he probably did, and I'm thinking the same thing, but we just don't know and probably will never know. BUT, the decision does not rest on that, unless you're willing to accept being treated the way you KNOW you're being treated.

So tell him you suspect he cheated but it really doesn't matter and you're dumping him because he's a confirmed liar, blameshifter and gaslighter and you're just done with his crap.

February 6, 2014

Then quit flogging a dead horse.

One day, when he's out, pack his bags and leave them where he will find them safe and sound.

And change the locks.

Or you leave, lock stock and barrel.

But you can't keep carrying on with this, and bearing the whole load yourself.

It's a completely unreasonable thing for him to expect from you, and unworkable.

This will crush you completely, if you stay.

February 6, 2014

No one here can tell you if he cheated, but i must say that he is not acting like an innocent man would. His defensiveness, anger and blame-shifting are very alarming. You may never know if he actually cheated, but he is treating you like garbage, and by sticking with him, you are instilling in him the belief that treating you poorly (whether that includes cheating or not) is okay!! I wish i could see what actually happened that night and give you closure... What i can tell you with certainty is that these patterns will continue with him if you let this go.

February 6, 2014

Thanks guys for the feedback. You have really told me what i already knew in my head, it's just at times my heart was almost wanting to believe that there wasn't more to the story and in a way sadly almost wanting to believe his lies even though i knew they were not true. i think maybe i was clutching on to the old days of how he was in the beginning of the relationship and thinking he would change back to that, and maybe it's hard to let go after quite a long relationship, during which i became kind of dependant on him i guess. but i feel there is no going back now, there is too much water under the bridge and i can't forget that night. i know i will never know for sure and maybe it shouldn't even matter but if i had to place my bet $$ i would bet he cheated.

February 6, 2014

Be thankful that you don't live together. That would be very disruptive and traumatic finding a new place to live.

February 6, 2014

true, although if we lived together at least i'd have known what time he came home at… if he came home

February 6, 2014

Honey, the times I was cheated on, I also had this horrible gut feeling that something was wrong, even though I wasn't sure what it was and found out the truth a lot later... In the end this feeling was right. I just knew that something happened. I guess I'm too sensitive in these things, and I guess you are as well.

February 8, 2014

I posted this in your other thread, but seeing as you've only replied to the responses in this particular thread I'll repost here where you're more likely to read it.

I wish I could tell you that it's all your head, but I think you're right that he cheated on you. The fact he keeps turning the tables on you when you ask about that night means he wants you to feel so bad about asking about it that you just leave it alone, and he gets away with whatever he did. If you add that to all the other suspicious factors you mentioned as well as your strong gut feeling - it's pretty likely he did something he wasn't meant to.

The problem now is not just that he probably cheated on you - it's that he probably cheated on you, lied about it repeatedly and then treated you very badly and tried to make you out to be the bad guy for asking about that night. Please dump this guy OP, you deserve better.

February 14, 2014

Thank you so much for your reply. I know no one here can tell me obviously if he did or didn't, i was just weighing up my thoughts and the likelyhood of him cheating based on the scenario and his reaction the next day. also at one point he was calling me 'crazy' 'paranoid' etc and i was starting to wonder were my thoughts of him cheating rational or my imagination putting 2 and 2 together and making 25... but i really think something happened

February 14, 2014

I hate jumping to conclusions. I know how neurotic it makes us all feel when our imagination gets the best of us, and we have no facts to back it up.

I fear for you because of his gas lighting. I think the worst of it was buying a ticket weeks in advance yet trying to throw you off the scent by complaining and saying he didn't want to go. Perhaps that was because he had a date.

If there's a subtle way to find out if his coworkers even know he has a gf, I would do it. What I would try not to do is make a fool of myself trying to find out, so think about this carefully.

Drop discussing this party. He will obviously lie and has already done so.

I think the lies and gas lighting are a valid reason to break up with him. Your call.

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Gut feeling that my partner cheated.. crazy thoughs, torturing myself..

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