Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 After a recount, I got 77 (including God) or 76 (not including God).
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 After a recount, I got 77 (including God) or 76 (not including God). I don't have anything Biblical either way to include God or not to include God, just an opinion. I think Jesus being the fulfillment of this matter of sin, should be included. It makes sense if you consider the number 77 and the Biblical meaning of the number 7, which is in short perfection. M30, I'm still chewing (that's a term a really good friend of mine used when speaking of the deep things of God, the "meat") on your last response concerning Enoch. Enoch is not talked about much.
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Which side of the family tree? He is the son of David. Obviously, the direct son since we are taking things exactly as written So only one generation...j/k Generation can mean many things in the bible. Jesus called those pushing him for a sign, a wicked and perverse generation. He even called his disciples a unbelieving and perverse generation and asked how long would he have to bear with their unbelief. Generation can be a way to refer to the entire culture and whether it aligns or does not align with God. Was Jesus a failed eschatological prophet? In the Olivet discourse, Jesus says "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" To get an accurate picture of what is going on, we have to examine context, and often requires taking all the gospel accounts together. We also know in some places we are reading indirect quotes of Jesus. Other times, we know we are only getting bits and pieces. For example, Paul provides a saying of Jesus "it is more blessed to give than to receive", which is in no other gospel and must have bee passed down as Paul was not with Christ during his earthly ministry. Many of Jesus sayings (if read in Aramaic) are set up to rhyme to make them easier to remember. John said there were so many volumes of Jesus miracles and sayings the world couldn't contain them. With a three year ministry making such a world wide impact, that's not hard to accept IMHO. This is powerful. In a few short words you opened up understanding that is amazing…it's one of those "duh" moments:laugh: you answered a question that has been floating about in my mind for quite sometime. In thinking about this fact, the miracles and teachings we are all familiar with would make an impact, but still not enough to explain why the Apostles and His other followers were completely sold out- to the point of walking away from everything and even unto death. This could be why Jesus said what He said to Thomas after the Resurrection- that those who have not seen really have faith. Can you imagine what the people saw during those three years of His ministry. No wonder the Pharisees and the Romans were tripping! Thank you TFW, yet another door opened:D
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, other than Jesus, one of the most significant people in the entire Bible is Enoch. What kind of man "walked with God"? What does that mean? I suggest it's both literal (physical) and figurative. If it was NOT literal, then where did he go? He clearly didn't die. It has been suggest by many theologians that Enoch is a pre-image of the church rapture. He was translated out of his physical body and, assumingly, caught up in the clouds with The Lord in the same fashion that 2 Thess says the church will be. Additionally, Enoch's rapture took place shortly before the flood judgement. The church will also be taken shortly before the judgement, only this time it will be fire and not water. Enoch is believed by most theologians to be one of the two prophets in Revelation. (The other two options are Elijah and Moses.) I personally believe the two prophets will be Enoch and Elijah. Why? Because these two never died. God took them. I have often wondered if they are in some kind of stasis mode or physically somewhere with God right now where time doesn't exist. Then, when they return near the end, it says they will be killed. This is very significant because it means that, eventually, Enoch and Elijah WILL die a physical death. God has said that every man will die. How can he be a liar? This is why I believe that Enoch and Elijah are the two prophets to come. The world will kill them, then rejoice and send gifts to one another, before God raises them also. But EVERY man must die as God has decreed--just for Enoch and Elijah it will be delayed. This stuff is pretty wild to even imagine. But I believe as more knowledge is revealed towards the end, this wild stuff will play out very real in our physical world just as the Bible says. I want to ask, with the natural death thing, could this be due to them living before Jesus? I agree with this statement and again you've answered many questions. I'm still chewing on "Enoch", knowing this sounds bad, but I don't understand why Enoch is not taught on higher levels, I can't remember him being talked of much- maybe I wasn't listening. Edited February 21, 2014 by pureinheart
Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I want to ask, with the natural death thing, could this be due to them living before Jesus? Maybe. I honestly don't know. But I strongly believe that God took him and Elijah not just because they were righteous, but because he had some future use ON EARTH for them. Not to quote the Book of Enoch as official Scripture, but the book opens up with a statement as to who its audience is: not Enoch's current generation but a "remote generation" at the time of the "tribulation". I believe, if Enoch is a genuine book, that he saw with his own eyes what would happen in the tribulation. I agree with this statement and again you've answered many questions. I'm still chewing on "Enoch", knowing this sounds bad, but I don't understand why Enoch is not taught on higher levels, I can't remember him being talked of much- maybe I wasn't listening. Perhaps because, as I said above, Enoch's primary role has yet to be fulfilled? It's truly odd. Someone has the title of "seventh from Adam", who "walked with God", yet only gets a few meager verses in all of Scripture. It's almost like an open-ended cliffhanger. It begs the question, "Weeelllll???" I believe that the world will see two great prophets for God in the future, kill them, yet not have the slightest idea that these men lived thousands of years ago. They may very well emerge and nobody will know who their parents are. (LOL, it's Obama!) Edited February 21, 2014 by M30USA 1
pureinheart Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Maybe. I honestly don't know. But I strongly believe that God took him and Elijah not just because they were righteous, but because he had some future use ON EARTH for them. Not to quote the Book of Enoch as official Scripture, but the book opens up with a statement as to who its audience is: not Enoch's current generation but a "remote generation" at the time of the "tribulation". I believe, if Enoch is a genuine book, that he saw with his own eyes what would happen in the tribulation. Perhaps because, as I said above, Enoch's primary role has yet to be fulfilled? It's truly odd. Someone has the title of "seventh from Adam", who "walked with God", yet only gets a few meager verses in all of Scripture. It's almost like an open-ended cliffhanger. It begs the question, "Weeelllll???" I believe that the world will see two great prophets for God in the future, kill them, yet not have the slightest idea that these men lived thousands of years ago. They may very well emerge and nobody will know who their parents are. (LOL, it's Obama!) I had always wondered why these particular Prophets (Elijah and Enoch) were set apart in this manor. Just want to say that this information is like gold, better than gold and I appreciate all of you guys:) Another lack of understanding was why the Book of Enoch was not apart of the Word. It was just recently that there was any understanding of Enoch at all, except for hearing his name here and there. I need to study that book. Thinking we learn to trust God, we may not have all of the answers as no one has all of the answers. He let's us know what He wants us to know, BUT when He opens that door to answers- wow, there's nothing like it! Again, I think you're right about the two end-time Prophets being Enoch and Elijah. It makes sense due to them both being "caught up". God has a reason for choosing them, He knows the hearts of men. As for Moses, ok he didn't finish his ministry, but he's human. To be honest with you M30, and you may even agree as I find you don't follow the "norm", you follow the truth. I never thought it was a big deal concerning Moses not "finishing" his ministry. God knew what would happen. For all we know God could have planned it that the next generation take over and finish the job. Please correct me if I've missed something in the Word that says different…IDK, I really don't think God trips like man does. "Seventh from Adam". I can't even begin to wonder what deep revelation is behind this. I wouldn't think anything much about it if Enoch had not been caught up to be with God. Those two things are significant. I always trip when thinking about the Trib and the events that take place. There have been movies based on the Trib, but when I read books describing it, mainly the Bible, those movies don't do that actual events justice, nor the visions in my mind... 1
Author M30USA Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 Pure, There a lots of scenes in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" which are worth rewatching. Aside from the fact that Spielberg based much of it off the research of Dr. Allen Hynek, it's also clear that he uses TONS of biblical imagery. The best example is the rolling thunder and whirling clouds above the mountain as the UFO descends. The reason I bring this up is that there's a scene at the end where the UFO opens up and several human beings come out who had been taken from decades earlier. None of them had aged at all. They were the exact age as when they were taken. Where did Spielberg get this idea? I've always wondered. It's almost like what will happen to Enoch and Elijah, in my opinion. Not that I believe God and his angels look like those ugly aliens in the movie, or that the "chariots" look like that UFO in movie, but you can't help but notice the parallel. 1
Author M30USA Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Here is another numerological fact that will blow your mind: I believe the entire history of humankind was foreshadowed by the first seven generations after Adam. Many things in Bible have such foreshadowing. In this case, as we discussed, Enoch (7th generatiob) was taken by God and this parallels the rapture of the church. It was followed by the Flood. What you might not know is that, according to the Book of Enoch, the fallen angels descended and did their corruption "in the days of Jared". Any guess as to what generation Jared was? Yep. 6th from Adam. I don't even need to say what the number 6 means in Scripture. So here we have 6 generations of mankind, at which point the 6th generation (Jared) culminates when the fallen angels come to earth. Then the 7th generation is where God took his chosen person Enoch, a symbol of the saints, and soon thereafter destroyed the earth with the flood. There you have mankind's entire history foreshadowed in the first 7 generations. The Bible tells us in Revelation and other books that God will release the fallen angels who are bound beneath the rivers of the earth. (Incidentally the Book of Enoch ALSO says this.) It says these are the angels who came before the Flood. And they will be released to earth again before the final judgement for a short while, according to Revelation. So, if its true that we are just shy of 6000 years since Adam (Hebrew calendar has us at roughly 5800 right now), and if you symbolically correlate a thousand years to each generation number, could it be that we are nearing the release of these fallen angels just like "the days of Jared" at generation number 6? Then Christ would come to rapture his church (paralleled by Enoch at 7th generation) afterwhich he has his millennial kingdom to make a total of 7000 years? This is mostly theory on my part. If I'm wrong, the Bible isn't wrong. I welcome any criticism or problems in my theory. Edited February 22, 2014 by M30USA
truthbetold Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I go by what Jesus said in Matthew 24:36 No one knows the day or hour... to be figuring out things like this seems much like looking for some sort of sign which we are not to do. I do know much of the book of Revelation is about Jerusalem 70 AD and this was one such explanation of the tie in of Revelation and Daniel. read this vision in Daniel [COLOR=DarkRed]Carefully[/COLOR]. Daniel 9:24-27 Daniel gives u the time table here...... 70 weeks. then then 70 is split into 3 periods: 1st=7 weeks; 2nd=62 weeks and the last 1=week (7+62+1=70).. Daniel tells us why seventy weeks are decreed... "...to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, etc..." ( read verse 24) now he gives us the events surrounding the beginning and end of each period!! the 1st seven weeks - from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one...... Ezra 7:11-26 - Artaxerxes decrees the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple. circa 457 BC. Beginning of the 7 weeks. Jesus' public ministry, the anointed one.circa 30 AD. Ending of 7 weeks. (7 x 7=49/ the first 7 weeks are about 49 decades) the second 62 weeks - "..it shall be built again...." Neh. 2:3-13 - Artaxerxes decrees the restoring of the city of Jerusalem. circa 444 BC - Temple finished finally under Herod the Great in 10 BC.... that's the 62 weeks. ( 444 BC till 10 BC = 434 years) then the famous ONE week (as some may call.the Great Tribulation of a future time...nope, wrong!) Daniel9:26 states that after the 62 weeks the anointed one (JESUS) will be "cut off" ..and his people will destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple). Jesus was cut off in circa 30 AD on the cross...the city and sanctuary where destroyed in 70 AD. but this last week is the week in which these thing happen and also..the "strong covenant" is made. the transition form the Old Covenant to the New in Jesus' Blood. Incarnation till the Judgment on the Old Covenant, Jerusalem's destruction. (Incarnation till destruction about 7 decades). Remember, after the seventy weeks there will be - to finish the transgression to put an end to sin and to atone for iniquity to bring in everlasting righteousness to seal both vision and prophet and to anoint a most holy. All 6 blessing accomplished by Jesus...in HIS FIRST COMING!! I was also surprised to read the reference of 77 times. Jesus spoke in hyperbole. (gouge your eye out to keep from sinning, I really hope people aren't doing that!) and it's forgive 70 x 7 which is actually 490 times not 77 times which still was Jesus using hyperbole. (I told you a thousand times to clean your room!) Much was written the "beast" was Rome. Anyway my thoughts.
pureinheart Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Here is another numerological fact that will blow your mind: I believe the entire history of humankind was foreshadowed by the first seven generations after Adam. Many things in Bible have such foreshadowing. In this case, as we discussed, Enoch (7th generatiob) was taken by God and this parallels the rapture of the church. It was followed by the Flood. What you might not know is that, according to the Book of Enoch, the fallen angels descended and did their corruption "in the days of Jared". Any guess as to what generation Jared was? Yep. 6th from Adam. I don't even need to say what the number 6 means in Scripture. So here we have 6 generations of mankind, at which point the 6th generation (Jared) culminates when the fallen angels come to earth. Then the 7th generation is where God took his chosen person Enoch, a symbol of the saints, and soon thereafter destroyed the earth with the flood. There you have mankind's entire history foreshadowed in the first 7 generations. The Bible tells us in Revelation and other books that God will release the fallen angels who are bound beneath the rivers of the earth. (Incidentally the Book of Enoch ALSO says this.) It says these are the angels who came before the Flood. And they will be released to earth again before the final judgement for a short while, according to Revelation. So, if its true that we are just shy of 6000 years since Adam (Hebrew calendar has us at roughly 5800 right now), and if you symbolically correlate a thousand years to each generation number, could it be that we are nearing the release of these fallen angels just like "the days of Jared" at generation number 6? Then Christ would come to rapture his church (paralleled by Enoch at 7th generation) afterwhich he has his millennial kingdom to make a total of 7000 years? This is mostly theory on my part. If I'm wrong, the Bible isn't wrong. I welcome any criticism or problems in my theory. Just a bit of background- A friend of mine from HS and partner in rebellion, of whom I've kept in somewhat contact with over the years gets saved. She was obsessed with the Word, so not only is she saved, she's on fire. Very soon after you start many threads giving much insight and correlation concerning angels, Nephilim and the Book of Enoch. While these threads were active, she starts questioning me about these things and was in a radical study of them. Normally this would not seem unusual. What was unusual is baby Christians typically don't start out with these types of studies. Your threads and threads where these things were discussed was mostly all new info answering many questions. Ok, so now I know God is trying to tell me something. There is an increased curiosity with Jesus speaking, "for the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah"…IMO this is literal interpretation. Then comes the process of changing old thinking patterns as I know this is the truth. My study of "end times" was focused during the Trib. Most thinking prior to the Rapture was off as things do not have to get "that bad" for the Rapture to occur. The Trib is the really bad portion. M30 what you speak of (bolded) is what I've felt for quite sometime. The only thing that is hard to understand is how with the increase of lawlessness and perversion of the land- I just don't see how the earth could be sustained for another 200 years or so. I do agree completely though because what the Lord has given you makes sense. Now this inability to "see" how the earth could sustain itself is most likely my own thinking because God can do anything He wants…I suppose my question would be, and I do think God goes by the Hebrew calendar, is do you think that there might be a considerable amount of time between the Rapture and the Trib? Hoping this makes sense:o 1
pureinheart Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Hey TBT, Could I ask if you would answer a couple of questions? These questions will help me understand your post a bit better. I know this might sound weird, but if I know sort of where you're at then it's easier for me to follow what you're saying:D What are your beliefs as far as the Trib: Do you believe we are in it now? Questions of this nature like basic beliefs that concern this period of time. Sorry if you've communicated this elsewhere or I am reading you wrong- my comprehension is more off that usual today.
pureinheart Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Pure, There a lots of scenes in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" which are worth rewatching. Aside from the fact that Spielberg based much of it off the research of Dr. Allen Hynek, it's also clear that he uses TONS of biblical imagery. The best example is the rolling thunder and whirling clouds above the mountain as the UFO descends. The reason I bring this up is that there's a scene at the end where the UFO opens up and several human beings come out who had been taken from decades earlier. None of them had aged at all. They were the exact age as when they were taken. Where did Spielberg get this idea? I've always wondered. It's almost like what will happen to Enoch and Elijah, in my opinion. Not that I believe God and his angels look like those ugly aliens in the movie, or that the "chariots" look like that UFO in movie, but you can't help but notice the parallel. I will watch it again and will check on Netflix:D I've always liked this movie, from the day it was released- now there is higher reasoning to watch it again!
wuggle Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Where did Spielberg get this idea? . Einstien's special theory of relativity.
Author M30USA Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 I go by what Jesus said in Matthew 24:36 No one knows the day or hour... to be figuring out things like this seems much like looking for some sort of sign which we are not to do. I'm not talking about knowing the day or hour. But Jesus clearly WANTED us to know seasons and when the time draws close. He even gave us signs to observe for this very reason. I was also surprised to read the reference of 77 times. Jesus spoke in hyperbole. (gouge your eye out to keep from sinning, I really hope people aren't doing that!) and it's forgive 70 x 7 which is actually 490 times not 77 times which still was Jesus using hyperbole. (I told you a thousand times to clean your room!) Much was written the "beast" was Rome. Anyway my thoughts. I'm not sure if you're correct. The word "times" is not always multiplication. For example, in Daniel it also says "a time times and half a time". In the case of the verse you questioned, most translations say "seventy-seven times". I think in the KJV it was just Old English phrasing to say it like "seventh times seven", which really means "seventy times [plus] seven". 1
Author M30USA Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 I've never read such garbage in my life. If you believe this **** you are reallllllly a dimbulb. Is he really dumb for believing a book which has a perfect track record of predicting the future? It predicted the birth of Jesus 600 years prior, down to the details of his location, physical appearance, etc. It predicted the destruction and eventual reestablishment of Israel. This is just a start. I don't think he's dumb. He's wise to believe Scripture. 1
Author M30USA Posted February 23, 2014 Author Posted February 23, 2014 (Deleted. Not worth my time.) 1
pureinheart Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (Deleted. Not worth my time.) Amen M30. I'm still tripping on the radical amount of revelation God released in this thread alone. God is so good.
pie2 Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Question: Which of the following were not acceptable offerings, back in the day? (Exodus, Tabernacle Offerings) YarnSea Cow HidesRed Ram SkinsGoat HairWoodNone of the above 2
pureinheart Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Question: Which of the following were not acceptable offerings, back in the day? (Exodus, Tabernacle Offerings) YarnSea Cow HidesRed Ram SkinsGoat HairWoodNone of the above I'd say yarn but you didn't specify a color, so that's out:p lol Hummm, seriously- going by basic knowledge, I'm going to say "none of the above" Hey, isn't that a trip that when the Ark of the Covenant surfaces, the original ashes from the very first sacrifice(?) are in it…you know I can't remember when they started that practice (not sacrifices, but saving a bit from the last sacrifice). Great topic Pie!
TheFinalWord Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Question: Which of the following were not acceptable offerings, back in the day? (Exodus, Tabernacle Offerings) YarnSea Cow HidesRed Ram SkinsGoat HairWoodNone of the above If it's not #2 you have some explaining to do Made me laugh, though I could be wrong on this one!!! Good one... 1
Speakingofwhich Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I'll say all of the above were not acceptable offerings. Notice googling isn't permitted. Is looking it up in the Bible permitted? (didn't look this one up) Edited February 24, 2014 by Speakingofwhich 2
pureinheart Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Question: Which of the following were not acceptable offerings, back in the day? (Exodus, Tabernacle Offerings) YarnSea Cow HidesRed Ram SkinsGoat HairWoodNone of the above Pie, I totally misunderstood the question…oh man, will attempt this again tomorrow.
pureinheart Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I'll say all of the above were not acceptable offerings. Notice googling isn't permitted. Is looking it up in the Bible permitted? (didn't look this one up) This is what I was thinking.
Author M30USA Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 I'm gonna guess #6 (none of the above). Doesn't a sacrifice have to involve the shedding of blood and death of an animal? 1
truthbetold Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I'm not talking about knowing the day or hour. But Jesus clearly WANTED us to know seasons and when the time draws close. He even gave us signs to observe for this very reason. I'm not sure if you're correct. The word "times" is not always multiplication. For example, in Daniel it also says "a time times and half a time". In the case of the verse you questioned, most translations say "seventy-seven times". I think in the KJV it was just Old English phrasing to say it like "seventh times seven", which really means "seventy times [plus] seven". You know, That could be true. That's a problem when you had original Hebrew, Greek to what we are now reading. Capital letters vs no caps etc... I found some more interesting math for you! SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN all numbers have meanings.. seven is the number for completness or wholeness (we know this illustrated below) seventy is the number of .. perfection ..(this is something I read but it would make sense if the following is true: so in essence Jesus was saying FORGIVE your brother PERFECTLY AND COMPLETELY Further: In Genesis 4:24 Cain is avenged 7 times and Lamech<Cain's distant grandson> said that because he killed a man that he would be avenged 70 times= 77 Jesus uses that number to counterpoint hatred into forgiveness. Matthews Jewish audience would have known what the significance of the number meant!Gen:23 Lamech said to his wives: "Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, hearken to what I say: I have slain a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold." To illustrate perfection of 7 Seven Churches of Asia (in Revelations) Seven Churches of Rome (the main churches for pilgrimage in ancient times) Seven Councils (first seven ecumenical councils for both eastern and western churches) Seven Deacons (first seven helpers ordained by the Apostles) Seven Gifts (of the Holy Spirit) Seven Sacraments (you know them already) Seven Words of Christ (last words spoken by Christ on the Cross) Hey TBT, Could I ask if you would answer a couple of questions? These questions will help me understand your post a bit better. I know this might sound weird, but if I know sort of where you're at then it's easier for me to follow what you're saying:D What are your beliefs as far as the Trib: Do you believe we are in it now? Questions of this nature like basic beliefs that concern this period of time. Sorry if you've communicated this elsewhere or I am reading you wrong- my comprehension is more off that usual today. Hi Pure, Interesting Question! I went back to Matt 24:15 reading through the parable of the ten virgins to come up with my answer! I believe in a mix of preterist and the final judgement has not come. In Matt 24:15 Jesus speaks of "Abomination of Desolation" now I have two bibles. One a NASB and also a NAB (of course I'm Catholic!) Here's the thing I found interesting. My original Bible NASB and I like it because the Lord's words are in red, doesn't have the 7 missing books that the original Bible contained. So as you know, there are passages in scripture that link up or "complete' other passages and go from OT to NT etc... The missing piece from most Bibles is that the above Abomination of Desolation refers to 1 Maccabees 54 where King Antioches erected a huge idol of Zeus in the temple. Well if you're familiar with any mythology they did believe in the powers of things that were happening when they prayed to all of their gods. (sea, love, wisdom etc etc) Well of course this was an abomination to God and reading it in context makes sense that Jesus would mention it to them, as that is the prophecy Daniel speaks of in 9:27 and of course the audience at the time would remember that Abomination of Zeus. We won't if we don't have all the pieces! Also an interesting fact is that there was a 7 year tribulation before with the Abomination of Desolation as there was a 7 year tribulation for what Jesus was speaking about in Matthew for the fall of Jerusalem 70 AD! Not to say he doesn't forewarn us like in the Parable of the 10 virgins to always be ready. Keep you light trimmed with oil and have enough! Be ready always for you do not and cannot know, even the angels who stand with God do not know only the Father knows. I like all Catholics, do believe in the 2nd coming. We don't believe it happens in stages though or that it will be a secret. When he comes, he will come in glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end. So really we could be considered in a sort of tribulation now. Look at what's happening with gay marriages etc that was never part of God's plan for marriage so that's an abomination. All of the abortions since Roe vs Wade is certainly an abomination. Just the condition of the world in general. But the good news is he's there ready to forgive (I know you know that!) repent and seek forgiveness! I do think it's important now more than ever perhaps to spread the good news and as we say, to go out in the world glorifying the Lord with our life! Thank you both for the discussion! Fantastic questions raised! So good to discuss the good things of God! I am thinking about starting a thread to explain needless bias against the Catholics and what "truly" is a Catholic. I have a lot of info that I've saved when I explored other religions before fully committing to Catholicism that may be of interest. I see a lot of erroneous beliefs. One that I've seen more than once is Catholics aren't Christians!? What?? Yes, we most certainly are, first and foremost. But thank you I enjoyed the research!
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