Author M30USA Posted February 19, 2014 Author Posted February 19, 2014 You're right, it's a hard question. I only know because I actually counted. I was curious what number I'd discover. It doesn't say it outright in the Bible.
pie2 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Okay, here's another. This one's dedicated to TheFinalWord. In the Biblical geneology from Adam to Jesus Christ, how many generations* are there? A) 42 B) 77 C) 120 D) 144 E) 319 *That is, identified generations. I have no clue, but my guess is (A). (blushingface....grrr on my broken smilies icons). So, what is a "generation" considered to be, anyway? Like today, is a generation about 30 years? Is a generation from when one person is born until they have a child? 1
pureinheart Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I have no clue, but my guess is (A). (blushingface....grrr on my broken smilies icons). So, what is a "generation" considered to be, anyway? Like today, is a generation about 30 years? Is a generation from when one person is born until they have a child? This is a good question Pie, I've heard all sorts of meanings to what a generation is considered to be in the Bible. The Bible is big on generational stuff. I've been thinking of this question since seeing it…beyond fascinating! You may have it Pie- looking strictly at the Biblical meaning of numbers, I just know this number has radical meaning … 319 is out, no meaning. 12 is too low, but has radical meaning- governmental perfection Wow, my paper says 42 means anti-christ, that would be interesting 77 would be my own meaning, perfection doubled? …but 144 represents the 144,000 male Jews that evangelize the world during the Trib Wait, isn't there somewhere in the Bible (Daniel?) that speaks of 70 years plus 7- 70 years from the prophecy to Jesus and 7 year Trib? Oh wow, just remembered "120" in the list…check it out- it says: applied to time it signifies probation, applied to persons it is a divine period of waiting. Also what comes to mind is the 120 years it took Noah to build the Ark. Please, I checked none of this out with the Word, it's just off of memory and that is always scary:laugh: I would bet it's either 77 or 120…Pie's sounds about right though because those guys back in the day didn't have kids until they were about 100 to 200 years old. 3
Author M30USA Posted February 19, 2014 Author Posted February 19, 2014 To clarify, in this question I'm referring to the generations that are identified by name (as in Adam was the father of Seth, etc.) So what I'm asking is how many specific names were identified in the lineage of Christ? 1
TheFinalWord Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 To clarify, in this question I'm referring to the generations that are identified by name (as in Adam was the father of Seth, etc.) So what I'm asking is how many specific names were identified in the lineage of Christ? Which side of the family tree? He is the son of David. Obviously, the direct son since we are taking things exactly as written So only one generation...j/k Generation can mean many things in the bible. Jesus called those pushing him for a sign, a wicked and perverse generation. He even called his disciples a unbelieving and perverse generation and asked how long would he have to bear with their unbelief. Generation can be a way to refer to the entire culture and whether it aligns or does not align with God. Was Jesus a failed eschatological prophet? In the Olivet discourse, Jesus says "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" To get an accurate picture of what is going on, we have to examine context, and often requires taking all the gospel accounts together. We also know in some places we are reading indirect quotes of Jesus. Other times, we know we are only getting bits and pieces. For example, Paul provides a saying of Jesus "it is more blessed to give than to receive", which is in no other gospel and must have bee passed down as Paul was not with Christ during his earthly ministry. Many of Jesus sayings (if read in Aramaic) are set up to rhyme to make them easier to remember. John said there were so many volumes of Jesus miracles and sayings the world couldn't contain them. With a three year ministry making such a world wide impact, that's not hard to accept IMHO. 1
GorillaTheater Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I'm going for 120. I seem to recall there being three groups of 40. 1
TheFinalWord Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Just for you M30: Audio Bible KJV by Alexander Scourby LUKE .swf - YouTube
Author M30USA Posted February 20, 2014 Author Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) TFW, what I'm asking is different from what you're saying. You could very well be correct about kaleidoscopic genealogies. But what I'm asking is how many specific names are given in the genealogy. You asked whose line I was referring to--Joseph or Mary. I was asking for Mary's (ie, the biological line). This also brings up a good point. I think most scholars believe the lineage of Mary and Joseph split in separate directions with David's children. This means that from Adam to David, the lines of Mary and Joseph were identical. You could say that Joseph's line was the legal, kingly line; while Mary's line is the biological. Edited February 20, 2014 by M30USA 1
pie2 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 319 is out, no meaning. 12 is too low, but has radical meaning- governmental perfection Wow, my paper says 42 means anti-christ, that would be interesting 77 would be my own meaning, perfection doubled? …but 144 represents the 144,000 male Jews that evangelize the world during the Trib Wait, isn't there somewhere in the Bible (Daniel?) that speaks of 70 years plus 7- 70 years from the prophecy to Jesus and 7 year Trib? Oh wow, just remembered "120" in the list…check it out- it says: applied to time it signifies probation, applied to persons it is a divine period of waiting. Also what comes to mind is the 120 years it took Noah to build the Ark. Please, I checked none of this out with the Word, it's just off of memory and that is always scary:laugh: I would bet it's either 77 or 120…Pie's sounds about right though because those guys back in the day didn't have kids until they were about 100 to 200 years old. pih, I LOVE seeing your thought process on this . It's making me smile. I was totally going through a process of elimination myself, because I really don't know how many generations there are. But I had no idea 42 is a number of the anti-Christ. Oops (I chose that one, lol). 77 seemed too perfect, and then 144 seemed to reference something else in the bible (as you mentioned). And 120 was just an easy round number...would there really be a round number of generations? That seemed less likely, but I'm loving your explanation of what it might mean. lol...I obviously didn't pick based on any real biblical knowledge. 1
TheFinalWord Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 TFW, what I'm asking is different from what you're saying. You could very well be correct about kaleidoscopic genealogies. But what I'm asking is how many specific names are given in the genealogy. You asked whose line I was referring to--Joseph or Mary. I was asking for Mary's (ie, the biological line). This also brings up a good point. I think most scholars believe the lineage of Mary and Joseph split in separate directions with David's children. This means that from Adam to David, the lines of Mary and Joseph were identical. You could say that Joseph's line was the legal, kingly line; while Mary's line is the biological. Good stuff brother. I was just giving you a hard time haha I know it may not come across right online. TBH I enjoy discussing with you. I feel you have way more knowledge, and our dialogues are really the only bible trivia challenge I get so thank you Some of this is me just wanting to sharpen iron I know the genealogies listed in Luke 3 (see the link above) go from Joseph to Adam...what calculations did you find?
TheFinalWord Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 pih, I LOVE seeing your thought process on this . It's making me smile. Me too! PIH has the prophecy angle covered for us 2
TheFinalWord Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 TFW, what I'm asking is different from what you're saying. You could very well be correct about kaleidoscopic genealogies. But what I'm asking is how many specific names are given in the genealogy. You asked whose line I was referring to--Joseph or Mary. I was asking for Mary's (ie, the biological line). This also brings up a good point. I think most scholars believe the lineage of Mary and Joseph split in separate directions with David's children. This means that from Adam to David, the lines of Mary and Joseph were identical. You could say that Joseph's line was the legal, kingly line; while Mary's line is the biological. Maybe that is why it says "as was supposed"? Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. --that last part will give you chills 1
pie2 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Maybe that is why it says "as was supposed"? Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. --that last part will give you chills Thank you! The suspense was killing me. 1
TheFinalWord Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Thank you! The suspense was killing me. Ha I don't think this is right though. M30 wants the Mary lineage. It's not that clear, so I'm anxious to see how he calculates this. Genealogy of Jesus - Compare the Genealogy of Jesus - Matthew Genealogy vs Luke Genealogy Edited February 20, 2014 by TheFinalWord 1
Author M30USA Posted February 20, 2014 Author Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Ha I don't think this is right though. M30 wants the Mary lineage. It's not that clear, so I'm anxious to see how he calculates this. Genealogy of Jesus - Compare the Genealogy of Jesus - Matthew Genealogy vs Luke Genealogy Okay, TFW. In this case, the number I used for this trivia was, in fact, the lineage from Luke 3. I hadn't looked in a while. I just remembered the number. So there you have it, folks! TFW just provided you with the lineage, so get on counting! (BTW, God himself in verse 38 is not considered a generation because nobody "begat" him, lol.) Edited February 20, 2014 by M30USA 1
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 pih, I LOVE seeing your thought process on this . It's making me smile. I was totally going through a process of elimination myself, because I really don't know how many generations there are. But I had no idea 42 is a number of the anti-Christ. Oops (I chose that one, lol). 77 seemed too perfect, and then 144 seemed to reference something else in the bible (as you mentioned). And 120 was just an easy round number...would there really be a round number of generations? That seemed less likely, but I'm loving your explanation of what it might mean. lol...I obviously didn't pick based on any real biblical knowledge. Thank you Pie, I always smile when I see your posts. Pie you have a lot of Bible knowledge, not to mention being a doll in Jesus! Me too! PIH has the prophecy angle covered for us TFW I would call you a doll, …but that isn't a guy thing, so how about you're the (you know the "b" word..lol). 2
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Okay, TFW. In this case, the number I used for this trivia was, in fact, the lineage from Luke 3. I hadn't looked in a while. I just remembered the number. So there you have it, folks! TFW just provided you with the lineage, so get on counting! (BTW, God himself in verse 38 is not considered a generation because nobody "begat" him, lol.) So, is there any way I could talk you into giving the number? :laugh: 1
Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) The correct answer is...*drumroll*... B) 77 Remember, regardless of the side debate between TFW and me, this is the amount of NAMED generations according to Luke 3. When I first learned that, I immediately thought about the following verse: "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times...'" (Matthew 18:21, 22 NIV) It's almost like God forgave or overlooked "seventy-seven" generations of sinners before finally atoning for us with Jesus Christ. This, I admit, could be total coincidence and, as far as I know, nobody else has thought of this. Some other translations like the KJV say "seventy times seven". So ho-hum. It's still a special thought to me. Additionally, he said not to forgive only just "seven" times. If you also correspond this number to the genealogy, you get another very special man: Enoch. He walked with God and was taken away without dying a natural death. So I love how, in the total recorded genealogy, the numbers 7 and 77, both mentioned in the verse above, correlate to highly significant people who, by the way, were translated and/or resurrected. Edited February 21, 2014 by M30USA 2
pie2 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 So there you have it, folks! TFW just provided you with the lineage, so get on counting! (BTW, God himself in verse 38 is not considered a generation because nobody "begat" him, lol.) I seriously can't count, but I only count 76 without God. I'm sure I've messed it up somewhere. With God, I got 77, which is a totally awesome number. So either way, very interesting. 2
Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 I got 78 with God. But maybe I'm dyslexic. BTW, did anyone hear about the agnostic insomniac who had dyslexia? Yea...he stayed up all night contemplating whether or not there is a dog. 2
TheFinalWord Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I seriously can't count, but I only count 76 without God. I'm sure I've messed it up somewhere. With God, I got 77, which is a totally awesome number. So either way, very interesting. I got 76 as well, without God. 1 Adam 2 Seth 3 Enosh 4 Kenan 5 Mahalaleel 6 Jared 7 Enoch 8 Methuselah 9 Lamech 10 Noah 11 Shem 12 Arphaxad 13 Cainan 14 Shelah 15 Eber 16 Peleg 17 Reu 18 Serug 19 Nahor 20 Terah 21 Abraham 22 Isaac 23 Jacob 24 Judah 25 Perez 26 Hezron 27 Ram 28 Amminadab 29 Nahshon 30 Salmon 31 Boaz 32 Obed 33 Jesse 34 David 35 Nathan 36 Mattatha 37 Menna 38 Melea 39 Eliakim 40 Jonam 41 Joseph 42 Judah 43 Simeon 44 Levi 45 Matthat 46 Jorim 47 Eliezer 48 Joshua 49 Er 50 Elmadam 51 Cosam 52 Addi 53 Melki 54 Neri 55 Shealtiel 56 Zerubbabel 57 Rhesa 58 Joanan 59 Joda 60 Josech 61 Semein 62 Mattathias 63 Maath 64 Naggai 65 Esli 66 Nahum 67 Amos 68 Mattathias 69 Joseph 70 Jannai 71 Melki 72 Levi 73 Matthat 74 Heli 75 Joseph 76 Jesus
pureinheart Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 The correct answer is...*drumroll*... B) 77 Remember, regardless of the side debate between TFW and me, this is the amount of NAMED generations according to Luke 3. When I first learned that, I immediately thought about the following verse: "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times...'" (Matthew 18:21, 22 NIV) It's almost like God forgave or overlooked "seventy-seven" generations of sinners before finally atoning for us with Jesus Christ. This, I admit, could be total coincidence and, as far as I know, nobody else has thought of this. Some other translations like the KJV say "seventy times seven". So ho-hum. It's still a special thought to me. Additionally, he said not to forgive only just "seven" times. If you also correspond this number to the genealogy, you get another very special man: Enoch. He walked with God and was taken away without dying a natural death. So I love how, in the total recorded genealogy, the numbers 7 and 77, both mentioned in the verse above, correlate to highly significant people who, by the way, were translated and/or resurrected. Can you imagine the relationship Enoch had with God! M30, I don't believe the revelation God gave you was coincidence and I have never heard a teaching nor has anyone ever connected the dots in this fashion. I've been reading this post over and over to get the full impact, but I can't touch the deep revelation here. There is a knowledge on somewhat of a superficial level; the knowledge of forgiveness- 77 recorded generations tying in with Jesus's words on forgiveness and how many times we are to forgive. Very powerful.
Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 When counting musical note intervals, they count both the first and the last. For example, the interval between C and G is a 5th (or five). So I guess if this were music, it would be 77. Hehe. I guess it comes down to whether or not you count God.
Author M30USA Posted February 21, 2014 Author Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Can you imagine the relationship Enoch had with God! M30, I don't believe the revelation God gave you was coincidence and I have never heard a teaching nor has anyone ever connected the dots in this fashion. I've been reading this post over and over to get the full impact, but I can't touch the deep revelation here. There is a knowledge on somewhat of a superficial level; the knowledge of forgiveness- 77 recorded generations tying in with Jesus's words on forgiveness and how many times we are to forgive. Very powerful. In my opinion, other than Jesus, one of the most significant people in the entire Bible is Enoch. What kind of man "walked with God"? What does that mean? I suggest it's both literal (physical) and figurative. If it was NOT literal, then where did he go? He clearly didn't die. It has been suggest by many theologians that Enoch is a pre-image of the church rapture. He was translated out of his physical body and, assumingly, caught up in the clouds with The Lord in the same fashion that 2 Thess says the church will be. Additionally, Enoch's rapture took place shortly before the flood judgement. The church will also be taken shortly before the judgement, only this time it will be fire and not water. Enoch is believed by most theologians to be one of the two prophets in Revelation. (The other two options are Elijah and Moses.) I personally believe the two prophets will be Enoch and Elijah. Why? Because these two never died. God took them. I have often wondered if they are in some kind of stasis mode or physically somewhere with God right now where time doesn't exist. Then, when they return near the end, it says they will be killed. This is very significant because it means that, eventually, Enoch and Elijah WILL die a physical death. God has said that every man will die. How can he be a liar? This is why I believe that Enoch and Elijah are the two prophets to come. The world will kill them, then rejoice and send gifts to one another, before God raises them also. But EVERY man must die as God has decreed--just for Enoch and Elijah it will be delayed. This stuff is pretty wild to even imagine. But I believe as more knowledge is revealed towards the end, this wild stuff will play out very real in our physical world just as the Bible says. Edited February 21, 2014 by M30USA
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