Author Man of regrets Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 My advice is to cut both of them loose and spend some time alone, getting your head screwed on straight. You're hurting two innocent people (well, maybe one more innocent than the other) and you need to figure out why you'd pull a stunt like that. Probably a few other things you need to work on as well. Yes, I think you're right. Totally right, and believe me, I tried that for periods, possibly too short periods, I don't know, but I can't let go. I love both of them too much, and it makes me down not to be able to talk to any of them, I felt no purpose in my life anymore. Besides they are usually trying to contact me when I go silent for too long. But I agree that this is what I should do.
Author Man of regrets Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 Your whole OP is about justifying your decision to have an affair. You said how you married too young, your wife was your first/only love, you felt isolated, lonely and depressed, etc, etc. Pick one or several because those are your reasons/justifications for having an affair. Like I said, it looks like you are trying to justify your decisions to yourself and that is what is important here. Who cares what the rest of us think?The rest of us reading here will not lay awake tonight because of what you have posted, but you might spend some sleepless nights wrestling with the choices you made and have to make. That was what I was getting at. I was trying to help you see the decisions you made in a different way...for your benefit, not mine. I see you as someone who is floundering around, knowing they screwed up big time, but are still looking backward at why they did what they did, when you need to look forward, at least right now. Later, you can look back and figure out why you did what you did. In the meantime, there is a marriage to be dealt with a child to take care of. I also don't think any of us can tell you what you should do. These are huge decisions that will impact your life, the life of your child, and your wife forever. I don't think those decisions should be made because of what strangers say of an internet forum. You need to make those decisions because you will live with the consequences. Well, I think your response was a bit different this time, I understand better what you mean and I appreciate your time. But I still don't agree that I try to justify myself, or maybe we just understand/read the word justification in different ways. I would say that it might explain my actions instead of justify my actions. Because I don't think these action never can be justified. I was trying to explain the whole background, to people can get the whole picture and it will be easier for people who don't know me to read and to get an opinion what decision to take. That was my purpose, but maybe that was wrong way to do it. I got already got to that stage where I understand that I can't continue like this, I'm willing for a change, that's why I wrote my story here, I rarely write on forums, and of course I'm not going to let strangers on an internet forum decide my future, that's not the purpose, but it's always good to hear other people's opinions what to do, because I have no experience of this from before. So I'm just looking for tips and suggestions, because I feel a bit lost and lonely, because the two closest people I know are part of my problem, and I also see this as a bit of therapy, to tell and get responses. Because I made stupid decisions earlier in my life and I don't want to repeat it.
Author Man of regrets Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 You are basically saying your happiness COMES from your interaction from each. NO wonder you cannot choose! It's like someone has offered you a great dessert, then another. And you think you can only be happy as long as you have both. Neither of these woman can make you happy. Which is not to say you shouldn't be with either of them, it is to say you have to be happy for yourself. Not because of what interactions with each of them brings you. If you genuinely LOVE THEM BOTH (Which I doubt - I don't doubt that you THINK you do, but there is a difference between LOVE and having strong attachments to someone because they make you feel good) then obviously you just need to CHOOSE ONE of them. Because unless you convince them to allow you to be with them both, it ain't going to happen And the longer you wait to make this decision the WORSE it is going to turn out for ALL involved. You are, as I said, CLEARLY in LIMBO (it's a theory about women, but it's almost equally true of men: Relationships today follow a very predictable pattern: They push for commitment They get what they want They lose interest in sex They become attracted to someone else They start cheating They begin telling their partners that they need time apart They blame their partners for their behavior…and eventually, after a long time of vacillating back and forth, they end their relationships or marriages. If you’re a cheater, like most other cheaters, prior to cheating on your partner you always proclaimed yourself to be “not the type” who would ever cheat. However, also like most other cheaters, after they have cheated, you’re shocked and appalled by your behavior; but at the same time you can’t stop cheating. You can read the 4 stages of LIMBO here: Women's Infidelity But if you can get a hold of a PDF (free) version of Women's Infidelity II, she has a very very good chapter about getting OUT OF LIMBO, including the self deception (mostly unconscious) about making a decision because to do so would be to remove one of your two options, and you are seriously enjoying them both while you "pretend" to be confused. I love you because you can put words of what I feel. Seems like you understand my message and the decision which is tearing my heart, but yet a decision I know I have to make. It's true I'm in a kind of limbo. Yes my happiness comes from both of them, but in different ways, they complement each other. One gives me the comfort zone, a comfort feeling like a close family member or like a close sister. And I know what she likes and she knows what I like. We have a history with lots of memories. While the other gives me the attention, passion, the teasing, the playfulness, the mood for adventures like myself. Simply I feel more alive. And it became like a habit to find a message from her every morning. And me and my wife actually did live apart during the last half year since she was living in another country, only had contact over the phone, and even if this was tough from the start I got kind of used to it. So during this period I actually got used to the idea of living apart from her, I was mentally prepared to divorce her, it felt like we divorced already. I felt actually calm. But once she came back of course our child still connects us together, and lot of other old memories are brought back to me. Also the other girl I stopped talking to for a almost a month, but I felt that I missed her too much and started talking to her again. But of course that's a different relationship since we don't live in the same country. You might have a point that I THINK I love them both genuinely and equally, and probably that's what confuses me, because in this moment I think I love the other girl much more, because I feel affection for her, I want to be by her side, I'm in love with her, but of course I'm aware that this might affect my clear thinking and make me take the wrong the decision I will regret. Because the affection will diminish one day. But on the other hand I have "planned" to divorce my wife for a pretty long time, that's what I kind of wanted for some time, but I couldn't do it then and now when I finally got in to this situation I can't really do it anyway, of course the fact that we got a child together made the situation more complicated and it will affect my decision about her. But in a stupid way it feels like my big mistake was for "vain". Don't get me wrong, but since I wanted to divorce, but I couldn't do it, this became another very evil option to get out. Sure, I didn't plan this, but now it happened anyway. And if I'm going back to my wife, It will be like after all these painful moments I'm back on square one again, only difference is that I shattered our relation and made it weaker. Maybe it will grow stronger as well, but I have doubts. Yes, I am a cheater...obviously...it's hard to deny after what I have done. But I why I don't see myself as a "typical" cheater is because I'm sure that I wouldn't do it again. Before this situation I didn't even consider it. On the other hand I have no idea what is the typical cheater. The only reason why I'm "still cheating" is because I have a strong bond with both of them. It's not only about love and attraction. By dropping one of them I also lose a close friend. Thank you for the texts you sent me, I will read it.
Author Man of regrets Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 Of course substitute WOMEN for yourself! Stage 3: Women at Stage 3 are involved in affairs, ending affairs, or contemplating divorce. Women who are having affairs experience feelings unlike anything they have experienced before. They feel “alive” again and many believe they have found their soul mates. These women are experiencing feelings associated with a chemically altered state, or what is typically referred to as being in love. These women are also typically in tremendous pain, the pain of choosing between their husbands and their new love interests. They typically believe that what they are doing is wrong and unfair to their husbands, but yet are unable to end their affairs. Many often try several times. Prior to meeting with their lovers, they will vow that it will be the last time, but they are unable to stick with their decisions. Unable to end their extramarital relationships, women at Stage 3 conclude that their lovers are soul mates because they are unaware that they have become addicted to the high caused by chemicals released during the initial stages of a relationship. Many live in a state of limbo for years. “Should I stay married or should I get a divorce?” this is the question continuously on the minds of women at Stage 3 – it is also common for women at this stage to attempt to initiate a separation. In most cases, husbands of women at Stage 3, will launch futile attempts to make their wives happy by being more attentive, spending more time at home and helping out around the house. Regardless of women’s past and present complaints, the last thing women at Stage 3 want, is to spend more time with their husbands. The reason many women will give for their desire to separate is a “search for self.” They convince their husbands that they might be able to save their marriage if they can just have time to themselves. They tell their husbands that time apart is the only hope of improving their current situation. Women at this stage want to free themselves of the restrictions of marriage and spend more time with their lovers. Most think that eventually their confusion will disappear. They think they will eventually know with certainty whether they want to stay married or get divorced and be with their lovers. Separation allows women at this stage, to enjoy the high they experience with their lovers without giving up the security of their marriages. _____ So if your idea to "cut loose" of them both, ends up being just a way to be able to dedicate more time alone to your AP, then it's because you either DONT want to stay in the marriage, or you DONT want to come out of LIMBO. It will allow you to further convice your lover to hang in there, showing her you have made the move out of the house, but in fact, all you are doing is keeping ALL THREE in your LIMBO while you DONT DECIDE ANYTHING. Yes, I totally recognize this, except that it's a woman, it's me.
kalimata Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Manofregrets: You have a long an intricate story. You ask us for our opinion on WHO you should choose: your wife or your mistress. Let me be clear: THE CHOICE IS NOT YOURS TO MAKE. THE CHOICE TO CONTINUE IN THE MARRIAGE RESTS WITH YOUR WIFE ALONE, NOT YOU. So far your wife has let you get away with this adulterous behavior with this 20-year old. You say that you have a genuine affection and love for both of them. This maybe true, but I can guarantee after the newness wears off and she ages a bit the mistress will quickly lose your affection and you will seek another another young hottie for yourself. TURN TO YOUR WIFE. ASK FORGIVENESS. SHOW SORROW FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. If she takes you back, then consider yourself a lucky man for not losing the greatest gift you have ever been given. Both you and your wife have fallen out of love with each other. If you cannot make a decision, then the decision must be made for you. Here is one way: 1) Give your wife details about this other woman. Name, address, email, phone #. Contact information for her close friends and family. 2) Ask your wife to expose the fact that you are having an affair to everyone in #1 above, PLUS your family, her family, preist/pastor/Imam and close friends between you both. 3) Ask your wife to then prepare divorce papers and to have them served to you in a formal manner. In the US this is done by a process server who hand delivers them, often in a dramatic fashion. 4) Then sit and wait. The magnitude of what you have done will soon hit you like a ton of bricks. If you are beseiged with intense guilt, remorse and sorrow, then beg your wife for forgiveness and ask her to take you back. If you are NOT then however proceed with the divorce and find solace in your 20-something hottie. Go and live your life along one path or the other. This path of indecision is not sustainable and not fair to anyone. Sending you strength and peace......Kali 3
Author Man of regrets Posted February 8, 2014 Author Posted February 8, 2014 Manofregrets: You have a long an intricate story. You ask us for our opinion on WHO you should choose: your wife or your mistress. Let me be clear: THE CHOICE IS NOT YOURS TO MAKE. THE CHOICE TO CONTINUE IN THE MARRIAGE RESTS WITH YOUR WIFE ALONE, NOT YOU. So far your wife has let you get away with this adulterous behavior with this 20-year old. You say that you have a genuine affection and love for both of them. This maybe true, but I can guarantee after the newness wears off and she ages a bit the mistress will quickly lose your affection and you will seek another another young hottie for yourself. TURN TO YOUR WIFE. ASK FORGIVENESS. SHOW SORROW FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. If she takes you back, then consider yourself a lucky man for not losing the greatest gift you have ever been given. Both you and your wife have fallen out of love with each other. If you cannot make a decision, then the decision must be made for you. Here is one way: 1) Give your wife details about this other woman. Name, address, email, phone #. Contact information for her close friends and family. 2) Ask your wife to expose the fact that you are having an affair to everyone in #1 above, PLUS your family, her family, preist/pastor/Imam and close friends between you both. 3) Ask your wife to then prepare divorce papers and to have them served to you in a formal manner. In the US this is done by a process server who hand delivers them, often in a dramatic fashion. 4) Then sit and wait. The magnitude of what you have done will soon hit you like a ton of bricks. If you are beseiged with intense guilt, remorse and sorrow, then beg your wife for forgiveness and ask her to take you back. If you are NOT then however proceed with the divorce and find solace in your 20-something hottie. Go and live your life along one path or the other. This path of indecision is not sustainable and not fair to anyone. Sending you strength and peace......Kali Thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. And you're totally right that the decision is basically up to my wife. I already asked for forgiveness, and the thing is that she already "took me back", she probably never will forgive the action, but she's ready to take me back, she wants me to come back, it's me stopping it. Because I don't want to let her down again. I want to feel totally convinced before I go back. I'm living with my parents at this moment, because I need time to think how to do it, but I go to see her and my child every day. Every time I leave I can see in her eyes that she's hoping for me to say that I will stay, I big part of me want to stay of course, and I know that she won't wait forever. That's why I need help to decide. And yes I have lots of love for both of them, but in different ways, I'm more in love with the other girl, I have more affection for her, I miss to be by her side every day. I love my wife very much too, and I love to be by her side, my wife is very beautiful, I would say that most people would consider me very lucky to have a beautiful wife like this. But despite all this, I'm not turned on by her, I know that I should be, but I'm not. I want to be turned on by her because she has the attributes, but it just doesn't happen. And it makes me sad, unsatisfied, frustrated and I feel guilt and disappointed with myself. And this feeling I had long time before I met the other girl, so I can't say that it's the other girl who made me lose the interest of my wife. And of course I'm aware that the 20-year old will become older too, but it has nothing to do with age, and I'm not in love with her only because of her looks, I'm in love with her personality. So I didn't seek a "young hottie" because wife was too old, I just found this girl by accident on the internet, and she happened to be 20, though I would have preferred someone in my own age. But me and my wife never really had a passionate love-life, and I think that's what's killing me. I'm supposed to look forward to touch, caress, get excited when I'm with my wife, that's why don't like myself when I don't get this feeling.
yellowmaverick Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 As a BS, I would want you to come clean on the cheating and then leave. 1
blombox Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 This should not be a question about: 'should i pick her or her', the question should be: 'do i want to stay with my wife?'. Now all marriages have ups and downs. But if you decide that there is something in the marriage that can't be fixed and is making you unhappy. Fist leave your wife, take some time apart to see what you DO really want, and then start a new relationship. This 20 your old girl will not make you happy. She might look pretty, but there are a lot of other things that need be good in order to make a relationship work. So after you have her, you will not be more satisfied. So: - cut contact with the 20 year old. - See if you want to stay with your wife. - If you cant have it any other way, divorce. - Take a long time apart to get to know yourself - Start dating with a new you
Spark1111 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 manof regrets.....I've seen this IRL and you will bounce back and forth....in limbo, for YEARS, until someone kicks you to the curb and moves on finding a better man who can DECIDE! CHOOSE! COMMIT! Then you will fall to pieces for the "one who got away." PERIOD. That woman will be ALL another man has wanted his whole life, and he will cherish her while you are still crying into your Kleenex for the one you did not, could not, find the courage to choose. be very careful here.....while you vacillate back and forth, one or both women can choose to move on without YOU! A new man! One who can make a decision! And COMMIT with his whole heart. .....It is NOT just about you and your feelings. Three people are involved here and two of the three may not choose you over time. get away. Know your heat. make a decision. before it is made for you. 2
Smthn_Like_Olivia Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 1. Wrong on both accounts. The decision is for both. If you care to read the story carefully, and if we can rely on its contents, the Wife betrayed the trust of the OP over the episode of having a child. Tricked him is too LIGHT a word for what she did. In fact what you call her "patience" smacks to me of a condescending wife who thinks her husband is a child that needs to be controlled, put in his place, and tamed. ANYONE who believes that the choice of being in a marriage RESTS with ONE PERSON in the equation is not talking about marriage. 2. If he CANNOT MAKE the decision it is because HE CANNOT MAKE THE DECISION. Only he can make the decision to come out of LIMBO. And believe me, if it is FORCED UPON HIM, and in the way you describe, IT WILL FAIL. Experience has always shown us that if we FORCE someone to make a decision BEFORE they are ready, even IF they make the "RIGHT" decision, the effect of forcing them to do so will backfire as they obsess over NOT having made that decision on their OWN FREE WILL. As a BS I WISH with all my SOUL that my wife had LEFT her AP before I found out about it because MY DEMANDING NC while being the right thing put us in 6 months of LIMBO while she dealt with the fact that ending her affair was the "right thing to do" but was a demand made by me and not something I gave her time to think about. END result is the same, but the PROCESS makes ALL the difference. That this has to be explained is UNBELIEVABLE at this level of discussion. I'm sorry, but I have to call BULLSH*T on this. The OP is a grown man. IVF is not like poking a whole in a condom or not informing your spouse you stopped taking birth control. It is a long process and several doctor visits, tests, etc. to complete the process. The OP was not TRICKED into anything. Did he or did he not ejaculate into a cup and turn it over? I think he did. The OP's issue in this situation is not his wife or the other girl. His issue is growing a spine and taking control of his life instead of avoiding the things that seem difficult and seeking other ways to find happiness. NOT ONCE in that long overdrawn post did the OP say what HE did to try and fix the relationship with his wife. He just rambled on and on about what SHE did that he didn't like and and how it made him feel. He didn't say anything about trying to address their issues in the bedroom or trying to initiate things that brought excitement back into their marriage. Even after creating this fantasy relationship with what is essentially a "baby" thousands of miles away, he could've sat down with his wife and told her that he was unhappy with the relationship, with the sex, and that he would not have a child until they worked through these things. You talk about this controlling woman that is dominating the relationship, but you fail to mention that she is only controlling the relationship because the OP never grew a set of balls to stand up and take an active role in his marriage and the direction it was heading. The 20 year old living thousands of miles away is just a temporary bandaid on his issues and is not the answer to his happiness. Once she reaches real maturity and becomes a woman, he will eventually become unhappy with her too. He has a wife he took vows with and a child to take care of. His responsibility is to them. He needs to pull his head out of the sand and deal with his personal issues and either make an honest attempt to fix his marriage or get out of it. The "child" he's in love with should have no bearing in his decision. Period. 1
Arieswoman Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 When I hear someone say that "they love 2 people and they can't choose between them" either ;- 1. They want both of them = cake-eating or 2. They don't really want either of them but they don't want to be alone. If the OP doesn't know which scenario applies then IMO they need therapy to get their head sorted out. People are suffering emotionally because of their vacillations so it needs to be sorted sooner rather than later. 4
Arieswoman Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Doesn't know how to end his primary relationship in order to find out what kind of relationship he can have with his AP. Then it's simple - he grows a pair and tells her he wants out. Personally, I can't see a problem.
Smthn_Like_Olivia Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Because I am assuming the OP is a grown man, Im going to take his story at face value. Unlike you, who takes NONE OF IT AT FACE VALUE and invents EVERYTHING in your assessment of what is going on in his life. IF the OP is lying to ALL of us, that is his problem. IN a forum like this we cannot assume that the FACTS presented to us are a lie, and material NOT presented to us the truth. This is your appproach. The OP has been clear from his post: He didnt want to fix his marriage because he wanted out BEFORE he met the new woman. (And WHO THE F__k are you to call a 20 year old WOMAN a "BABY"? He gave us the specific details of this woman, his relationship with her, his understanding of her age, yet you ignore ALL OF IT and have decided he is practically a cradle robber. You do not have the credibility, the knowledge or the right to make the assertions you do about things that are NOT in the story of the OP. This is funny and makes no sense whatsoever. Not even worth responding to or arguing. I stand by everything I said. Take it HOWEVER you please. P.S. People will disagree with your assessments from time to time. That's what happens on forums. Who the F_k am I?? One of those people. Now unwad your undies. Not that serious. P.S.S. Show me your "credibility and knowledge" to make assertions. Do they give those out at Forum Certification schools? Edited February 9, 2014 by Smthn_Like_Olivia
violet1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Man if Regrets, This is just my opinion, but I think the problem is you obsessed with making others happy. I'm the same way, but I'm working on it. The problem with this is when get so fixated on others happiness, you tend to ignore your own needs and lose a sense of yourself. This is unhealthy behavior and causes you to resent the other person. I met my H when I was 21 and I fell madly in love. I was so afraid that he'd one day leave me that I did everything he wanted me to do. I made decisions in my life that I didn't want to do to make him happy. In time, I hated and resented him for it. I also cheated, started out online like your A did. I blamed my H like you do your W. I'm starting to realize that my H is not the cause of my problems, I am. You allowed your wife to push you into things you didn't want to do and now you resent her and yourself for it. I get it, I did the same things. It took me awhile to see that I needed to take responsibility for the past choices I made in my M. You may have wanted to leave your w, but you CHOSE to stay in a relationship that made you unhappy. Take responsibility for that choice. I said earlier that you are not a good match for either of them because you are a lost individual who doesn't love himself. I've been there, but the fact is, you can't love another and make them happy if you aren't happy and don't love yourself. You need to work on yourself before you commit yourself to either women. Do not keep these ladies hanging. Tell the 20 year old that you are unsure of what you want to do. Tell her that you can't be involved with her until you've made a clear decision to divorce. Talk to your wife. Let her know how you are feeling. Do NOT go back to your wife out of guilt. You go back because you love her and want it to work. If you can't be 100% in for working on the marriage than you need to end it. There can't be any in betweens in a marriage. This is something I'm learning in marriage counseling. Please get yourself into individual counseling. Therapy could help you sort out everything in your head. I wish you the best!
Smthn_Like_Olivia Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) And I have nothing to discuss with an abusive poster who brings her baggage to other people's problems. Show me what was abusive in my post. Show me where I brought MY baggage into my post. Lol. Selective reading again, but whatever makes you feel better. If you re-read my posts compared to yours, I disagreed with your opinion of him being tricked into having a child and then went on to give my personal assessment on the situation HE asked for opinions on. YOU used my disagreement to insult me and make further assumptions. Remember this?? You do not have the credibility, the knowledge or the right to make the assertions you do about things that are NOT in the story of the OP. I'm glad you feel you have the authority to lay the ground rules for responses on the forum though. Keep up the good work! Edited February 9, 2014 by Smthn_Like_Olivia
beach Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I understand that you don't feel like reading it, I'm aware of the length, but I wanted to include all details. All the threads is about cheating, but every case is unique. And sure you can assume it's summarized with "me, me". Well it's not all about me, otherwise I wouldn't even bother to write all this. I would have made written much less. If I only cared about myself it would be so much easier. But yes, it's all from MY point of view. I can't exactly ask questions from another person's point of view. I read it all. I don't think it's useful for you to be with either gal. It's like you're toxic to both of them with all your lies. Be alone - work on yourself. No one else is going to make you happy - that comes from within. You've tortured your W by not stating your truth! Get a counselor - learn how to calmly and openly express how you feel and why you feel a certain way. You are a victim of yourself because you don't communicate effectively. Do NOT enter ANY relationship until you learn to have a voice and speak your truth! Find out who you really are! Then maybe you can begin an open and honest relationship at that time. Until you learn basic communication skills - you offer nothing valuable to either woman. Let your wife go - you've tormented her with a crappy marriage and too many lies. She may be capable of finding an authentic man who is better suited to her needs. Spend time on your own - you have a tone of work to do on your character, morals and boundaries. Get professional guidance - and hurry - before you keep harming others even more. 2
Speakingofwhich Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Man of Regrets, after reading your first post, I believe you should divorce your W but remain a good father to your child. Because: 1. Your wife seems immature, selfish and domineering. I can't imagine being married to a man who is this domineering and selfish. Creating another human being in such a manipulative manner is over the top. 2. You seem immature and spineless 3. You are no longer attracted to your wife. These three factors are a lot to overcome but can be done; however, throw into the mix the 20-year-old and it just makes it too much to overcome unless you are highly motivated (ie still attracted to your wife). It seems to me that you and your wife have established a pattern of her dominance over your personhood that will be hard to overcome even if you both mature and change. You should live on your own for a few years and do some maturing as a person. I don't know whether or not you'll make it in the long term with the 20-year-old. Remains to be seen. But, I have no doubts but what you'll be able to find a woman who loves you even if it doesn't work out with the 20-year-old. 1
Author Man of regrets Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 I'm sorry, but I have to call BULLSH*T on this. The OP is a grown man. IVF is not like poking a whole in a condom or not informing your spouse you stopped taking birth control. It is a long process and several doctor visits, tests, etc. to complete the process. The OP was not TRICKED into anything. Did he or did he not ejaculate into a cup and turn it over? I think he did. The OP's issue in this situation is not his wife or the other girl. His issue is growing a spine and taking control of his life instead of avoiding the things that seem difficult and seeking other ways to find happiness. NOT ONCE in that long overdrawn post did the OP say what HE did to try and fix the relationship with his wife. He just rambled on and on about what SHE did that he didn't like and and how it made him feel. He didn't say anything about trying to address their issues in the bedroom or trying to initiate things that brought excitement back into their marriage. Even after creating this fantasy relationship with what is essentially a "baby" thousands of miles away, he could've sat down with his wife and told her that he was unhappy with the relationship, with the sex, and that he would not have a child until they worked through these things. You talk about this controlling woman that is dominating the relationship, but you fail to mention that she is only controlling the relationship because the OP never grew a set of balls to stand up and take an active role in his marriage and the direction it was heading. The 20 year old living thousands of miles away is just a temporary bandaid on his issues and is not the answer to his happiness. Once she reaches real maturity and becomes a woman, he will eventually become unhappy with her too. He has a wife he took vows with and a child to take care of. His responsibility is to them. He needs to pull his head out of the sand and deal with his personal issues and either make an honest attempt to fix his marriage or get out of it. The "child" he's in love with should have no bearing in his decision. Period. I agree with you partly, but I think that you simplify the problems. And I never claimed that this "overdrawn long post" was perfect. It's my first attempt to write something like this, I hardly told this story to anyone, some people get the message, some don't. I tried to fit all the important things from "my" point of view, even though there were lots of more situations I could have added also, but it was long enough already. And I probably there's lots of important details I forgot to write, but it's not that easy to remember everything because I also tried to repress lots of details from the past. Of course I tried to fix the keep up the relationship with my wife, many times. Because she's the one who had the hot temper and then I had to be the one who cooled down the situation. Calm her, make her feel loved. And I hate tensed and uncomfortable situations within the home, so yes, I was the one who tried to make peace all the time, to make everyone happy, and to act like I wasn't hurt, like I was strong person to lean on. I also mentioned that I had a low self esteem when I was younger, the marriage with my wife was the first and only long term relationship I had, that's why I she was always been so important to me. Removing her from my life was like removing a big part of myself. I didn't know if I could do it. Besides I considered myself very lucky to have someone like her. The IVF is actually not THAT long process, maybe it depends where you're from. But here we went to a doctor in beginning of January one time, and we got a time in the end of January in the IVF clinic. Then they prepared everything, and they completed the procedure beginning of February, almost the same week. And me who was already in a deep depression, I thought the time went really fast, because it was like I was on a running train and wanted to jump off, but I didn't have the guts to do it. It was mainly my wife doing the talking with the doctor, the times when I was there I was just sitting like a doll. Quiet. And of course I'm a grown up, I should have said something of course. Don't you think I know this? I regret this still today. But I always wanted my wife's best, and I didn't want to spoil this for her, or for us or for our marriage. Because she said that if I don't wanna do this, she'll leave me. So during this process I was "hoping" to change my mind. I thought something was wrong with me since I didn't feel ready. Or maybe I was just being nervous. So during the month when we were waiting for the IVF I was hoping myself to "like" the thought of having a child, But then two days before I panicked, and I became apathetic, I got cramps because I wanted to get out, I told her several times that I don't want to do this, but somehow it happened anyway. First day we went to the IVF-clinic, we had to fill a paper, I couldn't even grab the pen to fill the form. I was just sitting the staring on the wall. My wife filled the form for me and "helped me" sign it. I fainted when I had to enter the room. During the procedure I couldn't leave my sperms, so I went to talk to my wife and asked if we could postpone this, and then she said that if you don't do it now, I want you to leave me, and you'll never see me again. I never thought that the love of my life would make these conditions to me, but now she did, and I didn't know what to do. I couldn't of course take the car and leave her, it was located in a city three hours away from home. I was trying to grab a thought, but my head was spinning. So in the end I did it anyway....to make peace as usual....and to calm down my mind, because I thought there was something wrong with me, and my wife convinced my that I was not being myself in this moment. So I should just trust her on this. So of course I was the one responsible, no question about that. But today when I got my self esteem back and I can see this from a different point of view, I can also question a wife who wants to proceed an IVF with an apathetic husband with panic attacks, who really doesn't want this, and she knew the only reason why he made it was to make her happy, or that he was just being scared of being becoming a dad. And also today, when I see this from a different point of view, I understand that she NEVER had the intention to leave me. Even during the IVF, she wouldn't have left me If I had refused to leave my sperms. But she knew how to control me. Otherwise she would have left me that first day when she noticed I cheated. Because at that point when she called me and understood I had cheated, she tried with the same strategy that she'll leave me. But this time I didn't object, because I felt like "game over", like I didn't care anymore. Then she started to change the attitude also, and become kinder and more understanding, even though she had every right to leave me. And I think she also had bad conscious from what happened in the past, maybe she understood what had been going on in our relationship. And trust me, to sit down and discuss problems with my wife I have tried, but it usually ended up with her being upset and me apologizing. And I yes, I agree that I had a problem with my self esteem, I should have tried to seek help earlier, but since I met the other girl my self esteem was growing, and I think my wife noticed this and she became more careful. So no matter what happened, I still appreciate what this other girl did to me, because it boosted my self esteem, made me realize that there is a world beyond my marriage also. And I don't know why you some other point out that the 20 year old will also become mature as if I didn't know this. Despite that I said all the time that I didn't love her because of her age, I actually would have preferred someone in my own age. Because the problem me and my wife had, had nothing to do with looks or age. She doesn't turn me on, but I think that's because of other issues. Her attitude in bed. A bit too "strict". And for me I think it's like a blocking that has been growing during the years, I have mental blocking towards having sex with her. And I have no issues with my child today, like I said, I'm with my child every day despite that I don't live with them.
violet1 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Stop blaming your wife and end the marriage. She may have been controlling, but YOU allowed her to control you. If you didn't want than IVF than YOU should have put your foot down. Yes, her ultimatum wasn't nice, but YOU still chose to go through with it. Please stop dragging this on. Take responsibility for your choices, divorce your wife and focus on being alone for awhile and spending time with the baby. Jumping from one relationship to another is not generally a wise idea. I personally suggest you end things with the 20 year old. From reading your posts, I don't think you can emotionally handle a serious relationship at this point in time. If you love both of these women than let them go and give yourself time to heal. 2
beach Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 You have self esteem issues to work through. Do that...before anything else. Look within - instead of seeking from others. And learn how to be strong - strong enough to have a voice and speak YOUR TRUTH. Stand strong - and if others don't like the strong you - then don't be with them. Staying weak and timid and quiet on what makes you happy will make you physically and mentally exhausted not to mention extremely ill. Get some help finding out who you are. 2
Author Man of regrets Posted February 14, 2014 Author Posted February 14, 2014 Stop blaming your wife and end the marriage. She may have been controlling, but YOU allowed her to control you. If you didn't want than IVF than YOU should have put your foot down. Yes, her ultimatum wasn't nice, but YOU still chose to go through with it. Please stop dragging this on. Take responsibility for your choices, divorce your wife and focus on being alone for awhile and spending time with the baby. Jumping from one relationship to another is not generally a wise idea. I personally suggest you end things with the 20 year old. From reading your posts, I don't think you can emotionally handle a serious relationship at this point in time. If you love both of these women than let them go and give yourself time to heal. Thank you for your post, and I agree that I should have put my foot down, and I still have regrets that I didn't do anything more, but I can't change the past, and I'm not blaming my wife today, because I know it was mainly my responsibility and my behavior of course that made her confused how to handle the situation too. I'm just explaining what happened in the past, because I'm wondering if it's possible to continue a relationship after what happened. If it's worth it. I agree that I should divorce my wife, I think it's our child and old memories and hope that makes us still being married. And of course the fact we both love each other very much... obviously...and we like each others company....except that I don't have any lust for her, and I know that's unfair. But in the other aspects we're perfect with each other and cooperate very good taking care of our child. And I understand what you mean about leaving them both, but I don't know if I can do this. I want to be with one of them. I tried many times to not "love them", but it's impossible. I fear I will have a very deep depression if I'll end up all alone. But I also know it has to end, I can't continue like this. But none of them want to let go of me either. I feel genuinely loved by both of them. And just the fact that both are still with me despite my horrible actions makes me realize how much love they have for me. Besides, the 20 year old is still living very far away from me, so to continue a "relationship" with her will still make me have lots of time for myself in a sort of way.
Author Man of regrets Posted February 14, 2014 Author Posted February 14, 2014 You have self esteem issues to work through. Do that...before anything else. Look within - instead of seeking from others. And learn how to be strong - strong enough to have a voice and speak YOUR TRUTH. Stand strong - and if others don't like the strong you - then don't be with them. Staying weak and timid and quiet on what makes you happy will make you physically and mentally exhausted not to mention extremely ill. Get some help finding out who you are. Thank you for your words, I think you write many wise things. I also think I had an identity issue ever since I married my wife. I lived with it, and it worked fine for many years until I realized another life beyond my marriage. I need to find myself. But the moments when I was being together with the 20 year old, I actually felt I could be myself I didn't have to pretend to be someone to please others. I think that's why I fell in love with her so much. I didn't only love her, I loved the situation. The issues I had with her is that I lied to her about my marriage, that she's very young and that we live far away from each other. The marriage she "accepted" if I promise to divorce, the age issue I don't really care so much about, it's probably mainly others who will care about that. Because I wouldn't call her her an immature child, mentally I think we're pretty close to each other, otherwise it wouldn't have worked, I don't think I would have fell in love with many 20 year old girls from my place, but I think her background made her grow up faster than people from my place. She has experienced much in her life, and she didn't get everything served on a golden plate. She didn't study on university, she studied life. The distance will of course be very difficult, but I had a similar problem with my wife too before we married, but that ended up "fine".
rumbleseat Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 It sounds like your issues pre-date your M, and you need to wok on them on your own. you are also placing a lot of pressure on your 20 yer old girlfriend. She's so young and doesn't need to tied down to and older guy who is trying to sort himself out.
Author Man of regrets Posted February 15, 2014 Author Posted February 15, 2014 It sounds like your issues pre-date your M, and you need to wok on them on your own. you are also placing a lot of pressure on your 20 yer old girlfriend. She's so young and doesn't need to tied down to and older guy who is trying to sort himself out. Yes, I get your point, and sure I have bad conscious for this reason sometimes. But I never forced my girlfriend to stay with me, I even told her that I would understand if she wants to leave me, and because of the distance it's actually very easy for her to "get rid of me". But she say that she can't live without me, I changed her life etc. And I love her too much to ditch her. I would never be able to do that.
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