clia Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Also, regarding his lack of thoughtfulness on the date exactly showed what kind of man he is. I don't think I should take it too personal as he didn't treat me seriously. I guess that's what he is. And he is probably stingy too. During the date, after we sat down, he never asked for the menu or ordered any drinks until I brought it up. I ordered a couple glasses of wine and he ordered some juice. hehe. funny. never seen something like that before. However, he did pick up the tab when I insisted to split. But the most disturbing part is that I sensed in the end he probably had secretly wished to have sex right on the first date. HOW SCARY is that coming from a professor? Here's the thing, though. You pursued and chased him until he eventually came around and asked you out. As a result, you threw off the normal dynamic. He wasn't into you from the get go. If he was, he would have asked you out much sooner. He would have responded to your texts messages. When you throw off the dynamic like that, it gives him little incentive to even try to impress you. He probably thought -- based on your actions and things that you said -- that you wanted to have sex with him or that you would be an easy lay. I mean, he obviously wasn't trying to get you drunk since you were the one who ordered the wine. A guy who was interested in you right off the bat would have likely acted differently. And your comment that "he is probably stingy too" makes little sense considering that he paid. So what if he wanted to drink juice? Maybe he didn't feel like having an alcoholic drink. Maybe he wasn't hungry. When he asked you out, did he say you were going to have a drink and eat? What exactly was the invitation? What time did you get together? I just don't feel like we are getting the whole story here. That's the way they are.In my case, I asked about his marriage history as the very first question. because I was going to judge on that for sure. If he said he's never married, then that would be too easy, I would totally stop asking more from there and run away Why? You are obviously entitled to date whoever you want and to go through whatever screening process you want to go through, but you really do come across as really judgmental and rigid. He didn't take you to a place that was good enough for you so you made him take you to another place, he didn't ask for the menu, he didn't order an alcoholic drink, he didn't take you out to dinner, he's had past relationships, he kissed you. I mean...it's fine to be picky, but you are not going to find anyone that is perfect, especially if you are looking to date guys in their 30s and 40s.
Author lonesurvivorever Posted February 6, 2014 Author Posted February 6, 2014 Here's the thing, though. You pursued and chased him until he eventually came around and asked you out. As a result, you threw off the normal dynamic. He wasn't into you from the get go. If he was, he would have asked you out much sooner. He would have responded to your texts messages. When you throw off the dynamic like that, it gives him little incentive to even try to impress you. He probably thought -- based on your actions and things that you said -- that you wanted to have sex with him or that you would be an easy lay. I mean, he obviously wasn't trying to get you drunk since you were the one who ordered the wine. A guy who was interested in you right off the bat would have likely acted differently. And your comment that "he is probably stingy too" makes little sense considering that he paid. So what if he wanted to drink juice? Maybe he didn't feel like having an alcoholic drink. Maybe he wasn't hungry. When he asked you out, did he say you were going to have a drink and eat? What exactly was the invitation? What time did you get together? I just don't feel like we are getting the whole story here. Why? You are obviously entitled to date whoever you want and to go through whatever screening process you want to go through, but you really do come across as really judgmental and rigid. He didn't take you to a place that was good enough for you so you made him take you to another place, he didn't ask for the menu, he didn't order an alcoholic drink, he didn't take you out to dinner, he's had past relationships, he kissed you. I mean...it's fine to be picky, but you are not going to find anyone that is perfect, especially if you are looking to date guys in their 30s and 40s. Thank you very much for your analyzing. Everything is so to the point! Seriously. So I'd love to hear some more opinions of yours. Like everyone said, it is good for me to realize the truth about how he sees me and get away with it. The reason for any further discussion is all for my own reflections so I can be a better catch in dating scene next time. Ok, back to the story of first date. He asked me out a couple times not long ago and I told him I was busy,will have to wait. Then after I texted him to ask him to pick a time in the following week and he seemed eager to make it sooner, so we decided to meet on a weekend night. He brought up an exact time right after his work. Then he texted me a lot of trivial stuff like if we will meet briefly or longer, if I have other plans after. When I asked where he was gonna take me, he gave me a "haha, what about we go for a couple drinks and then go with the flow". But I was trying to see if he would bring me to dinner. turned out he never intended to do so. Then we met and you know the rest So here is my question for the follow up. We both know the date went not quite well simply because of my reaction to his actions and stories during the date and I cut it short after a couple hours(long enough though). A few little things to notice: 1 when he picked the tab and politely turned me down for splitting the bill, he said next time I can do it then asked me anxiously if there will be a next time. (no response from me). 2. I went to the bathroom. after a while when I was back, he joked "I though you went away" 3 Later and the next day, he tried texting me sooner than before trying to see what I was up to. This is interesting. Given how intense my 'interrogation' was during the date, like some guy here pointed out earlier, I wouldn't be surprised even if he was turned off as well. But what do you think his motive is behind the details I just listed above? I personally don't want to think in a way that he is becoming more interested. I guess he was just trying to figure out if I was going to cut him loose. That is it.
Author lonesurvivorever Posted February 6, 2014 Author Posted February 6, 2014 Was thinking about the title of your thread... As a woman, I definitely use relationships as a convenience of 'free sex', as well as companionship. I don't need men for financial support... I have good friends of both genders. I'm more than competent at things considered traditionally masculine (fixing cars, house projects, etc). The only reason I seek out a man for a relationship is so that I can have reliable and fun sex/companionship with someone I trust and care about. Ideally he and our relationship would be a source of contentment and stability in an otherwise hectic and even ruthless world. So in alot of ways, I'm very much like a man in what I look for. Even with those very simple requirements of mine... it is obvious that a lot of men do not get emotionally invested in the women they have 'relationships' with, so it is easier for them to go from woman to woman. Depending on the people they surround themselves with, there may be very few consequences for them to do that. I think one important component to look for is the extent of their investment in things... emotional, financial, time, etc. People who are commitment oriented tend to exhibit that tendency in many areas of their life. This is a good measure of whether they are a good investment for you. You seem to have a good sense of this, so I'm sure you'll do just fine. Yeah, totally. Now I understand how some women like yourself and most men treat the relationship thing. Quite enlightening to me because I was totally not on the same page. I think your lifestyle is perfectly fine, but this guy in my story is a confirmed stringer.
soccerrprp Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 and here's the thread i was looking for guy sleeps with zillion women... everyone tells her to run... 6 pages already man posts about girl sleeping with a zillion men .... its all in his head and its because of him and let the past be the past.... /facepalm regarding this thread, typical woman chasing alpha and not getting what she wants, nothing new here.... women use sex to get guys in relationships... guys use commitment as tool for continuing getting sex.... if one of them stops its broken fyi you aren't the only one chasing him op, stand in line (but you already know this) CptSaveho, Really, man, this thread is different from the one you're comparing it to. Very different. 2
clia Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Thank you very much for your analyzing. Everything is so to the point! Seriously. So I'd love to hear some more opinions of yours. Like everyone said, it is good for me to realize the truth about how he sees me and get away with it. The reason for any further discussion is all for my own reflections so I can be a better catch in dating scene next time. Thanks! I'll see what I can do... Just my opinion, of course. Ok, back to the story of first date. He asked me out a couple times not long ago and I told him I was busy,will have to wait. Then after I texted him to ask him to pick a time in the following week and he seemed eager to make it sooner, so we decided to meet on a weekend night. He brought up an exact time right after his work. Was this at dinner time? (i.e. 6-8 p.m.) The timing is important to me because I don't go on dates at mealtimes unless they are offering food. I'm not going to sit there starving to death. But if it was 9 p.m. or later, or if it was mid afternoon, I wouldn't necessarily expect to eat. On my first date with my fiance, we arranged to meet for drinks at around 3:30 p.m. I was not expecting food at that point. However, we hit it off (duh!), so after a couple of hours we decided to go and have dinner -- because it was getting to be dinner time. Then he texted me a lot of trivial stuff like if we will meet briefly or longer, if I have other plans after. This...doesn't really sound like he was viewing it as a weekend night "date" to me. If it was a "date," it seems like he would've made plans for the evening. As it stands, he viewed it much more casually and it seems like he was pretty clear about that. When I asked where he was gonna take me, he gave me a "haha, what about we go for a couple drinks and then go with the flow". But I was trying to see if he would bring me to dinner. turned out he never intended to do so. Then we met and you know the rest He told you he wasn't really planning on dinner. It was a "maybe." So at that point, if that wasn't acceptable to you, you should have turned down his offer. It's fine to expect dinner, but it's not like he asked you to go out to dinner and then changed the plan mid-game. That wasn't his plan. And it may, in fact, have led to dinner had you not cut short the date. His plan was obviously to go for a couple of drinks and see what happened. Many times that leads to dinner; sometimes it doesn't. A few little things to notice: 1 when he picked the tab and politely turned me down for splitting the bill, he said next time I can do it then asked me anxiously if there will be a next time. (no response from me). 2. I went to the bathroom. after a while when I was back, he joked "I though you went away" 3 Later and the next day, he tried texting me sooner than before trying to see what I was up to. You've changed the dynamic. You are no longer chasing him. That behavior makes you more interesting to him. A lot of men really like the thrill of the chase. Has he asked you out again? Has he called? Have you heard from him since the day after? 1
Author lonesurvivorever Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 Thanks! I'll see what I can do... Just my opinion, of course. Was this at dinner time? (i.e. 6-8 p.m.) The timing is important to me because I don't go on dates at mealtimes unless they are offering food. I'm not going to sit there starving to death. But if it was 9 p.m. or later, or if it was mid afternoon, I wouldn't necessarily expect to eat. On my first date with my fiance, we arranged to meet for drinks at around 3:30 p.m. I was not expecting food at that point. However, we hit it off (duh!), so after a couple of hours we decided to go and have dinner -- because it was getting to be dinner time. This...doesn't really sound like he was viewing it as a weekend night "date" to me. If it was a "date," it seems like he would've made plans for the evening. As it stands, he viewed it much more casually and it seems like he was pretty clear about that. He told you he wasn't really planning on dinner. It was a "maybe." So at that point, if that wasn't acceptable to you, you should have turned down his offer. It's fine to expect dinner, but it's not like he asked you to go out to dinner and then changed the plan mid-game. That wasn't his plan. And it may, in fact, have led to dinner had you not cut short the date. His plan was obviously to go for a couple of drinks and see what happened. Many times that leads to dinner; sometimes it doesn't. You've changed the dynamic. You are no longer chasing him. That behavior makes you more interesting to him. A lot of men really like the thrill of the chase. Has he asked you out again? Has he called? Have you heard from him since the day after? Well Clia, thanks a lot again for your kind and thoughtful comments. It did help me a lot. However, at this moment, I think it is time for me to stop thinking or talking about him anymore. I need to clean up my mind and get ready to move on. Hopefully we will have something else here to discuss soon. I went through some of your posts, and noticed you are such a giving person, always trying to help. People like you on the forum are what makes it the best place to seek help. Have a wonderful life!
ktya Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Digressing here to the more abstract... I find the whole root topic of this thread somewhat disturbing: "men using relationships as convenience for free sex" First this implies that sex should cost something for men. Monetarily or otherwise, it does not matter. For a woman to view sex as that it comes with a "price" or "cost" is funamentally wrong. You may as well erase 40 years of womens liberation and go back to the 1920s before birth control and family planning techniques were devised. Back then sex = children, and women who had sex out of wedlock were shamed by their peers and women who gave birth out of wedlock were sent away. Today sex does not equal children and condoms are cheap. Women are now free to make reproductive choices and therefore free to enjoy sex for what it is. Sex is a mutually enjoyable and mutually pleasurable activity between two consenting partners. Of course not everybody is that great at it and a minute man will get pleasure while leaving the woman somewhat frustrated but that is sexual compatibility not a "cost". Next this implies that being in a relationship gives the man somehow easy convenient sex. This is not only wrong (i get daily action as a single guy casually dating that could only have dreamed of while in a cohabiting relationship) but it also somehow alludes that this convenience is not a benefit also enjoyed by the woman. Unless your with a guy who would deny you if you unzipped his pants while he was watching tv, give him a bj and then go for full service (exceedingly rare i would imagine) the woman also has easy access to a guy she knows and trusts for sex literally on demand. Finally this implies that being in a relationship is somehow a transaction in and of itself. That a man is expected to do ______ when in a relationship and that he can somehow use this elevated status in some underhanded way to get FREE sex without cost. Every relationship is a partnership of some type, and each person in it may have different expectations of their partner and this varies from relationship to relationshio and may change and evolve over time. Sex is part of most healthy relationships and this builds and strengthens the bond between the partners (look up oxycotin, the hormone not the painkiller). If there are differing expectations then communication is needed and if the differences cannot be resolved then he relationship is unhealthy. It sounds like the OP has a very rigid construct of sex and relationships rather than a fluid one. That is fine but given this posture she will need to figure out how to be very direct and up front with what she expects from a potential mate and to explain what she wants to get out of a relationship. In this case she met a guy 20+ years older than her. If i was that guy i would expect little more than a fling until she went looking for something more serious or got bored being with such an old guy. Sounds like she was looking for a marriage partner and he was confused because he figured it was a fling she was after. This implies that she didnt effectively communicate her expectations and it came out in this grilling about past relationships. A more healthy and less confrontational aporoach may have been for her to be more proactive in explaining what she expected out of a partnership/ relationship rather than being more confrontational. 1
RedRobin Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Yeah, totally. Now I understand how some women like yourself and most men treat the relationship thing. Quite enlightening to me because I was totally not on the same page. I think your lifestyle is perfectly fine, but this guy in my story is a confirmed stringer. We may not be all that different. I'd really prefer to find a life partner... Preferably marriage... It's just that I don't look to marriage to meet needs that other women might have. I look to marriage and commitment for stability and desire to be fully intimate... When I agree to enter a relationship with someone...it is with that in mind too... Even if I don't know at the time if we'd be suited for something long term or for life. Yes...he does seem like a confirmed stringer... Not someone looking for a life partner. 1
antonio1149 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 I find the whole root topic of First this implies that sex should cost something for men. Monetarily or otherwise, it does not matter. For a woman to view sex as that it comes with a "price" or "cost" is funamentally wrong. You may as well erase 40 years of womens liberation and go back to the 1920s before birth control and family planning techniques were devised. Back then sex = children, and women who had sex out of wedlock were shamed by their peers and women who gave birth out of wedlock were sent away. Today sex does not equal children and condoms are cheap. Women are now free to make reproductive choices and therefore free to enjoy sex for what it is. Sex is a mutually enjoyable and mutually pleasurable activity between two consenting partners. Unfortunately, 40 years of feminism and advancements in birth control don't trump a million years of evolution. There's a lot more at stake for women than men should sex result in an unplanned pregnancy, so it's understandable that women have evolved to be a little more discerning about who they mate with and in what context. 2
Author lonesurvivorever Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 Unfortunately, 40 years of feminism and advancements in birth control don't trump a million years of evolution. There's a lot more at stake for women than men should sex result in an unplanned pregnancy, so it's understandable that women have evolved to be a little more discerning about who they mate with and in what context. You said exactly what I was going to respond to his arguments. They say women like men can enjoy the "free sex" as equal. They just don't get it. It would never be an equal thing, or at least in a relatively long term perspective. You summed it up very well, in a sophisticated way.
Author lonesurvivorever Posted February 8, 2014 Author Posted February 8, 2014 Digressing here to the more abstract... I find the whole root topic of this thread somewhat disturbing: "men using relationships as convenience for free sex" First this implies that sex should cost something for men. Monetarily or otherwise, it does not matter. For a woman to view sex as that it comes with a "price" or "cost" is funamentally wrong. You may as well erase 40 years of womens liberation and go back to the 1920s before birth control and family planning techniques were devised. Back then sex = children, and women who had sex out of wedlock were shamed by their peers and women who gave birth out of wedlock were sent away. Today sex does not equal children and condoms are cheap. Women are now free to make reproductive choices and therefore free to enjoy sex for what it is. Sex is a mutually enjoyable and mutually pleasurable activity between two consenting partners. Of course not everybody is that great at it and a minute man will get pleasure while leaving the woman somewhat frustrated but that is sexual compatibility not a "cost". Next this implies that being in a relationship gives the man somehow easy convenient sex. This is not only wrong (i get daily action as a single guy casually dating that could only have dreamed of while in a cohabiting relationship) but it also somehow alludes that this convenience is not a benefit also enjoyed by the woman. Unless your with a guy who would deny you if you unzipped his pants while he was watching tv, give him a bj and then go for full service (exceedingly rare i would imagine) the woman also has easy access to a guy she knows and trusts for sex literally on demand. Finally this implies that being in a relationship is somehow a transaction in and of itself. That a man is expected to do ______ when in a relationship and that he can somehow use this elevated status in some underhanded way to get FREE sex without cost. Every relationship is a partnership of some type, and each person in it may have different expectations of their partner and this varies from relationship to relationshio and may change and evolve over time. Sex is part of most healthy relationships and this builds and strengthens the bond between the partners (look up oxycotin, the hormone not the painkiller). If there are differing expectations then communication is needed and if the differences cannot be resolved then he relationship is unhealthy. It sounds like the OP has a very rigid construct of sex and relationships rather than a fluid one. That is fine but given this posture she will need to figure out how to be very direct and up front with what she expects from a potential mate and to explain what she wants to get out of a relationship. In this case she met a guy 20+ years older than her. If i was that guy i would expect little more than a fling until she went looking for something more serious or got bored being with such an old guy. Sounds like she was looking for a marriage partner and he was confused because he figured it was a fling she was after. This implies that she didnt effectively communicate her expectations and it came out in this grilling about past relationships. A more healthy and less confrontational aporoach may have been for her to be more proactive in explaining what she expected out of a partnership/ relationship rather than being more confrontational. Even though we may hold different opinions on a lot of things regarding this thread, I really enjoyed reading this particular post you wrote. Yes, I will take some serious notes from your constructive suggestions and all the discussions we've had so far truly enlightened me. I owe you guys a big favor. Thanks!
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