Men using relationships as a convenience of free sex

[lonesurvivorever]

Absolutely. Normally on a first date, talking about your exes in any way is anathema and is a red flag that shows that maybe your not over your previous relationship. On this first date, she was grilling him and goading him into talking about what is universally common dating knowledge that is anathema, and then when she didn't like the answers called it a red flag.

 

Information about previous partners is a somewhat private matter, especially that early on in dating. Everyone has heard the story of the guy who marries a girl and then finds out that she's slept with a ton of guys and freaks out about it. Yet he was perfectly happy before.

 

I think that this guy humored her pretty good and told her the truth as best as he could because he didn't feel like lying about it. I would have opened up a bit and then shut the topic down once she wanted so many details, and if she kept needling me I'd have ended the date.

 

Like guy has dated women from all seven continents. Why ask how many from each continent? Why not ask for their name and contact information so she could call them and check his references too? This was a first date not a job interview.

 

I know I have my own problems, maybe I just valued him too much. You are making sense. Because I don't want to be that guy in your story and found out I was a fool later.

 

Yeah, I have no complains how he handled my "interrogation". He answered almost all of them, then said something like" no, this is not working. Let's talk about something else, like sports" I then expressed how I wanted to know him as a person and as a man, and tried to get him back on the topic. I know this is ridiculous but it served me good.

 

A question for you: given how many red flags I'm giving this guy as well, he was in perfect nice mood, kept laughing and not like you would do, he suspiciously and anxiously asked me if this would be the last date. I didn't answer. After the date, after seeing me leaving with an apparent "upset" look(yeah, it was childish), he became more eager to communicate with me via text after that night.

 

cannot figure this out. I cut down everything of course. deleted everything. what's your take?

[lonesurvivorever]

To be honest, after reading all of this, this guy dodged a bullet. Grilling someone about their relationship past on the first date? I've had guys do this to me and made sure that I never saw them again. He may have a chequered dating history, but you aren't exactly treating this fit with the respect one should expect on a first date.

 

I reckon the red flags lie with you.

 

thanks, I admit, yeah. I will take notes now.

[justwhoiam]

Well, this is the trickiest part regarding WHO. I was pretty sure there would be no available truth from his side. Because he gave some very vague excuses like interests of the two differ or so.

But you know what, I really have a bad intuition about him dumping quite a few of them after a while. He will never admit that.

After studying so much, this dude seems to have his brain fried, baked & toasted. What heterosexual man in his right mind would say "white women are boring"? Honestly, not even gays. He could have said: "American caucasians are not my cup of tea" or whatever... what a douchbag.

[antonio1149]

To be honest, after reading all of this, this guy dodged a bullet. Grilling someone about their relationship past on the first date? I've had guys do this to me and made sure that I never saw them again. He may have a chequered dating history, but you aren't exactly treating this fit with the respect one should expect on a first date.

 

I reckon the red flags lie with you.

 

>> thanks, I admit, yeah. I will take notes now.

 

I'm going to jump to lonesurvivorever's defense here. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing a person's dating history on the first date. The point of dating is to get to know the person, and their dating/relationship history is an important part of who they are and what they bring to the table. You presumably want your date to be real about who they are, right? So why should this be a taboo subject? Do you want someone to really get to know you, or be lured in by a sanitized version of yourself?

 

That's not to say one need go into excruciating detail about their "conquests."

 

I'm talking to someone right now who I met online. We haven't met in person yet but she's already asked me why haven't you ever married? And what's the youngest age you would date? Things like that. I'm okay with this, it's natural curiosity and many women wonder why I've never married given how good-looking and charming I am (heh heh). I can only hope she doesn't use it to assume the worst, and is willing to get the full picture.

 

I also think lonesurvivorever has a point about the first date. I'm not at all a fan of women who want to be wined and dined on the first date when you haven't met them yet or hardly know them. But the professor had known the OP for a while and if I were him and was highly interested, I think I would've tried to make a much better impression by at least going to a decent restaurant, and maybe buying a bouquet of flowers for $8. The minimal effort here tells me he may have been looking for what he could get for as little investment as possible.

[pickflicker]

I'm going to jump to lonesurvivorever's defense here. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing a person's dating history on the first date. The point of dating is to get to know the person, and their dating/relationship history is an important part of who they are and what they bring to the table. You presumably want your date to be real about who they are, right? So why should this be a taboo subject? Do you want someone to really get to know you, or be lured in by a sanitized version of yourself?

 

That's not to say one need go into excruciating detail about their "conquests."

 

I'm talking to someone right now who I met online. We haven't met in person yet but she's already asked me why haven't you ever married? And what's the youngest age you would date? Things like that. I'm okay with this, it's natural curiosity and many women wonder why I've never married given how good-looking and charming I am (heh heh). I can only hope she doesn't use it to assume the worst, and is willing to get the full picture.

 

I also think lonesurvivorever has a point about the first date. I'm not at all a fan of women who want to be wined and dined on the first date when you haven't met them yet or hardly know them. But the professor had known the OP for a while and if I were him and was highly interested, I think I would've tried to make a much better impression by at least going to a decent restaurant, and maybe buying a bouquet of flowers for $8. The minimal effort here tells me he may have been looking for what he could get for as little investment as possible.

 

Because it's rude. It's not anyone's business to go over the dead relationships. All that matters is that they're with you, now.

 

Unless they're is an ex spouse they still have contact with because of kids something else, digging into a person's relationship past ("forcing" them to spill, add the OP said), is just poor dating etiquette.

[Kizmet Fisher]

I'm going to jump to lonesurvivorever's defense here. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing a person's dating history on the first date. The point of dating is to get to know the person, and their dating/relationship history is an important part of who they are and what they bring to the table. You presumably want your date to be real about who they are, right? So why should this be a taboo subject? Do you want someone to really get to know you, or be lured in by a sanitized version of yourself?

 

That's not to say one need go into excruciating detail about their "conquests."

 

I'm talking to someone right now who I met online. We haven't met in person yet but she's already asked me why haven't you ever married? And what's the youngest age you would date? Things like that. I'm okay with this, it's natural curiosity and many women wonder why I've never married given how good-looking and charming I am (heh heh). I can only hope she doesn't use it to assume the worst, and is willing to get the full picture.

 

I also think lonesurvivorever has a point about the first date. I'm not at all a fan of women who want to be wined and dined on the first date when you haven't met them yet or hardly know them. But the professor had known the OP for a while and if I were him and was highly interested, I think I would've tried to make a much better impression by at least going to a decent restaurant, and maybe buying a bouquet of flowers for $8. The minimal effort here tells me he may have been looking for what he could get for as little investment as possible.

 

If everyone was forced to reveal their sordid dating history on a first date, getting a second date would be like finding Bigfoot.

[antonio1149]

Because it's rude. It's not anyone's business to go over the dead relationships. All that matters is that they're with you, now.

 

Unless they're is an ex spouse they still have contact with because of kids something else, digging into a person's relationship past ("forcing" them to spill, add the OP said), is just poor dating etiquette.

 

If you were running a company and hiring for a top executive position, you would go over a candidate's resume with a fine-toothed comb, examining the companies they've worked for, how long, how many, what schools they went to, etc. You'd next have several phone interviews with them, before bringing them in for several rounds of interviews and possibly a review before the hiring board. You would, of course, talk to their references to get insights into their character among other things.

 

Would you ever go on a job interview and say "hey, it doesn't matter where I've worked or what I've accomplished, all that matters is that I'm here interviewing for you now"?

 

It's funny how we think all of this is perfectly acceptable for a work position which amounts to a cog in the wheel that can be easily replaced. Yet, somehow, when you're "interviewing" for someone to be your life partner, whose presence in your life will have a huge impact on your every day fulfillment in life, whose finances will be inevitably and inextricably comingled with yours should children enter the picture, you think that any insight into past history is "off limits." Until you've been dating for a while and have formed a connection--then it's okay to bring all that stuff up, when judgment is clouded by "feelings."

 

What's wrong with this picture?

[antonio1149]

If everyone was forced to reveal their sordid dating history on a first date, getting a second date would be like finding Bigfoot.

 

Only if your dating past is sordid. Not everyone's is.

[pickflicker]

If you were running a company and hiring for a top executive position, you would go over a candidate's resume with a fine-toothed comb, examining the companies they've worked for, how long, how many, what schools they went to, etc. You'd next have several phone interviews with them, before bringing them in for several rounds of interviews and possibly a review before the hiring board. You would, of course, talk to their references to get insights into their character among other things.

 

Would you ever go on a job interview and say "hey, it doesn't matter where I've worked or what I've accomplished, all that matters is that I'm here interviewing for you now"?

 

It's funny how we think all of this is perfectly acceptable for a work position which amounts to a cog in the wheel that can be easily replaced. Yet, somehow, when you're "interviewing" for someone to be your life partner, whose presence in your life will have a huge impact on your every day fulfillment in life, whose finances will be inevitably and inextricably comingled with yours should children enter the picture, you think that any insight into past history is "off limits." Until you've been dating for a while and have formed a connection--then it's okay to bring all that stuff up, when judgment is clouded by "feelings."

 

What's wrong with this picture?

 

Because anyone with a modicum of intuition, intelligence and perception, will be able to see red flags in a person without having to ask their relationship history.

 

So long as the STD test is clear, you have to just accept some things on faith. And anyone who thought the most important question they could ask me on a date was "How many people have you slept with?" would find themselves alone on said date. You have to let the other perosn bring it up when they think it's right, not grill them like the Spanish Inquisition and call it 'smart dating behaviour'.

 

Here's an example: I'm chatting to a guy right now who is single because his last partner died. It's on his dating profile. Have I asked him about it? Absolutely not! He will tell me when he is good and ready, or he will choose to keep it to himself, and that is his right, because it is intensely personal and I would not dream of prying.

[lonesurvivorever]

After studying so much, this dude seems to have his brain fried, baked & toasted. What heterosexual man in his right mind would say "white women are boring"? Honestly, not even gays. He could have said: "American caucasians are not my cup of tea" or whatever... what a douchbag.

 

Exactly, the way he said that word by word in the most care-free tone disgusted me, even I'm not a white woman.

[lonesurvivorever]

I'm going to jump to lonesurvivorever's defense here. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing a person's dating history on the first date. The point of dating is to get to know the person, and their dating/relationship history is an important part of who they are and what they bring to the table. You presumably want your date to be real about who they are, right? So why should this be a taboo subject? Do you want someone to really get to know you, or be lured in by a sanitized version of yourself?

 

That's not to say one need go into excruciating detail about their "conquests."

 

I'm talking to someone right now who I met online. We haven't met in person yet but she's already asked me why haven't you ever married? And what's the youngest age you would date? Things like that. I'm okay with this, it's natural curiosity and many women wonder why I've never married given how good-looking and charming I am (heh heh). I can only hope she doesn't use it to assume the worst, and is willing to get the full picture.

 

I also think lonesurvivorever has a point about the first date. I'm not at all a fan of women who want to be wined and dined on the first date when you haven't met them yet or hardly know them. But the professor had known the OP for a while and if I were him and was highly interested, I think I would've tried to make a much better impression by at least going to a decent restaurant, and maybe buying a bouquet of flowers for $8. The minimal effort here tells me he may have been looking for what he could get for as little investment as possible.

 

Thank you SO MUCH for the encouraging comments! It was great to see someone who really understands. Yeah, totally, I'm very careful and sometimes picky with whom I date. That pre-screen process is essential to me.

Also, regarding his lack of thoughtfulness on the date exactly showed what kind of man he is. I don't think I should take it too personal as he didn't treat me seriously. I guess that's what he is. And he is probably stingy too. During the date, after we sat down, he never asked for the menu or ordered any drinks until I brought it up. I ordered a couple glasses of wine and he ordered some juice. hehe. funny. never seen something like that before. However, he did pick up the tab when I insisted to split. But the most disturbing part is that I sensed in the end he probably had secretly wished to have sex right on the first date. HOW SCARY is that coming from a professor?

[lonesurvivorever]

If you were running a company and hiring for a top executive position, you would go over a candidate's resume with a fine-toothed comb, examining the companies they've worked for, how long, how many, what schools they went to, etc. You'd next have several phone interviews with them, before bringing them in for several rounds of interviews and possibly a review before the hiring board. You would, of course, talk to their references to get insights into their character among other things.

 

Would you ever go on a job interview and say "hey, it doesn't matter where I've worked or what I've accomplished, all that matters is that I'm here interviewing for you now"?

 

It's funny how we think all of this is perfectly acceptable for a work position which amounts to a cog in the wheel that can be easily replaced. Yet, somehow, when you're "interviewing" for someone to be your life partner, whose presence in your life will have a huge impact on your every day fulfillment in life, whose finances will be inevitably and inextricably comingled with yours should children enter the picture, you think that any insight into past history is "off limits." Until you've been dating for a while and have formed a connection--then it's okay to bring all that stuff up, when judgment is clouded by "feelings."

 

What's wrong with this picture?

 

You hit the nail on the head. pure gold

[Tayken]

so this guy I just went on a date with told me he's been with all types of women from each continent in the world. He is in early 40's. He married once in his 20's and never again since then. No kids. He's dated with a ton of exotic women lasting from two months to more than two years. He met most of them at a bar or an event/party.

 

I'm pretty sure this man has too many serious problems. Commitment phobe is a major one. Since I'm pretty shy with relationship experiences, I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

 

You for to mention how old you are ......also, if you think for a second women aren't doing exactly just that, then you ought to think long and hard

[antonio1149]

Because anyone with a modicum of intuition, intelligence and perception, will be able to see red flags in a person without having to ask their relationship history.

 

I beg to differ. There are plenty of smart, perceptive women who have been hoodwinked by charming scoundrels. And vice versa.

 

So long as the STD test is clear, you have to just accept some things on faith. And anyone who thought the most important question they could ask me on a date was "How many people have you slept with?" would find themselves alone on said date. You have to let the other perosn bring it up when they think it's right, not grill them like the Spanish Inquisition and call it 'smart dating behaviour'.

 

Maybe we're not as far apart as it appears. I don't think you need to be as specific as "how many people did you sleep with." But at least some GENERAL idea of what's been going on in their life is warranted. If my date has had five previous husbands, I think I want to know that and find out more about it. And not wait until date #10 to learn about this.

 

Here's an example: I'm chatting to a guy right now who is single because his last partner died. It's on his dating profile. Have I asked him about it? Absolutely not! He will tell me when he is good and ready, or he will choose to keep it to himself, and that is his right, because it is intensely personal and I would not dream of prying.

 

Certainly, we all need to strike a balance between sufficiently inquisitive for our own protection and just plain nosy and intrusive. Sometimes it's a judgement call, and a fine line.

[pickflicker]

I beg to differ. There are plenty of smart, perceptive women who have been hoodwinked by charming scoundrels. And vice versa.

 

 

 

Maybe we're not as far apart as it appears. I don't think you need to be as specific as "how many people did you sleep with." But at least some GENERAL idea of what's been going on in their life is warranted. If my date has had five previous husbands, I think I want to know that and find out more about it. And not wait until date #10 to learn about this.

 

 

 

Certainly, we all need to strike a balance between sufficiently inquisitive for our own protection and just plain nosy and intrusive. Sometimes it's a judgement call, and a fine line.

 

You're assuming people will truthfully volunteer the information. I'm not that naive. So long as the person's morals and attitude align with my own, that's all I need to know. Their sexual history is irrelevant to me beyond the STD test.

 

If you're going to get hoodwinked, then it'll happen regardless of how probing and suspicious you are. I accept people for who they are, and I make judgements on their immediate actions, not their past ones.

[joystickd]

These titles get me. If you as a woman complain about men using relationships as a way to have free sex then you have no one to blame but your damn self. A man will do what you let him do. If you wanted more than just to be a piece of a$$ you should have acted as such. No need to whine about it now. You put yourself in that position by accepting second class behavior and now he expects that. How you start is how you finish. If you start out as convenient a$$ then to him you will always be convenient a$$

[RedRobin]

Each word you said is pure gold! Exactly, after you read what actually happened on the first date in the following, you will be more confirmed on the lack of CLASS and RESPECT from this guy.

What bothered me is that he truly showed the most CLASS and RESPECT I can find in a man while teaching in school. Then on the first date, he put on a completely different persona which is his true color that SHOCKED me. Call me naïve or innocent, at this age, I feel shamed by being fooled.

This is a very important lesson for you... People have many different sides to them. They may be a fabulous career person... A stellar and loyal friend... But an absolutely horrible partner. I have learned not to put too much stock in one role over another... Mostly I look for consistency. This guy didn't have it... But you really weren't fooled. Took you one date. Congrats!

[lonesurvivorever]

This is a very important lesson for you... People have many different sides to them. They may be a fabulous career person... A stellar and loyal friend... But an absolutely horrible partner. I have learned not to put too much stock in one role over another... Mostly I look for consistency. This guy didn't have it... But you really weren't fooled. Took you one date. Congrats!

 

Exactly, exactly. I will never forget what you wrote here. That was my biggest mistake. I shall learn a big lesson from now on

[Ninjainpajamas]

so this guy I just went on a date with told me he's been with all types of women from each continent in the world. He is in early 40's. He married once in his 20's and never again since then. No kids. He's dated with a ton of exotic women lasting from two months to more than two years. He met most of them at a bar or an event/party.

 

I'm pretty sure this man has too many serious problems. Commitment phobe is a major one. Since I'm pretty shy with relationship experiences, I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

You're reading the guy right in my book...it's self-preservation why men are defending this guy or saying their piece, there is a empathetic connection, especially if you might resemble "that guy" in so many ways for obvious reasons, be it age, dating history, or their current agenda. You'll notice that men make an effort to disassociate themselves from "other men" even though they engage in the same exact behavior with the same overall agenda, but then again, everyone is different right (including the agenda)? the possibilities are endless

 

I can assure you there will always be reasonable and somewhat believable histories of what someone is telling you versus what is actually the plain truth, but people know EXACTLY wtf they are doing they just don't admit it (denial mostly)...and how many people do you know that take responsibility and accountability for their own behavior and actions, have the greatest self-awareness and actually admit to their wrong-doings? I'm guessing not many, whenever someone is talking about their past it's about mostly the other person not themselves, right? it's always something external, always someone else, when they shouldn't be learning the most about their part in it and there's always some explanation that washes it away into the great black hole of life that's this huge "mystery" that nobody can explain or understand, it's that big abyss of unclaimed baggage that at convenience people can dump their trash in whenever they don't want to own up to their *****.

 

Because nobody wants to be seen as the "bad guy" or bad girl especially if they are, and people are salesmen, the best salesman get the most...sales. So they're going to explain to why or how they are different/better from x person that is getting the bad wrap, or better yet, say nothing at all and let you do the self-talk/convincing for them because you're too naive to know any better...men do this all the time and it usually works, women have a propensity of taking men at face value (for bob knows why) and falling for the facade also contributed by; lack of options, self-esteem issues, possibility of potential and promise for the future, all that crap...even going by just what men say and how they describe themselves which is all fantasy and image in their own mind anyway...even though people know something seems awry or a little too "justified", they want to believe the "magic" or continue on, that's why they do it...but everyone has an agenda, everyone has a need their looking to get met, and you can bet your jingle bells that most people are going to justify or cross any line in order to receive that in the end, whether it's manipulating the truth to a smaller pill that's easier to swallow or playing the victim, furthermore some people intentionally remain less self-aware to remove any potential guilt for really being honest with themselves about what they're actually doing...after all you can't take responsibility for something you never admit to or blame someone else for right (how convenient is that!), so why do that? why ruin your plastic self-created world?

 

Practically every damn guy is saying one of two things; "I just haven't found the right girl" or "I was hurt in the past"...it's the same song different singer...karaoke at that...but it's not the truth.

 

Women want to believe that for obvious reasons...maybe I'll be that "special one"...maybe he's just finally ready to just "settle down"...and that's the grab and it works for any guy, women manipulate themselves into thinking they know and understand men or even worse and don't know what the hell is going on anyway so they might as well trust him. But you already have your mind made up or you want to, all that man has to do is come around and sell that image to you, why? because you might think that what men say, what you see them do, what you think you know about men and how they feel is relative to what women think and feel or the men you think you know who portray or represent themselves as those "ideal men" or good men, because now you think you've got it figured out, now you think you have a living breathing example or several of them...but it's not the reality as a whole with men, men are self-preserving, hell...so are women, nobody is going to sell themselves in the worst light possible and people will live up to that facade that they've created for themselves no matter what because being anything else is too damn scary and different...then they might not get their needs met or at least what they want...therefore people lie, twist the truth and men also "have relationships to get sex" just like women might "have sex to get relationships" among other things like companionship and love.

 

Men especially going to paint a very vague, simplistic and even rose-y image of themselves and their romantic past, after all men don't talk a lot about that or go into great detail anyway right? women think men aren't expressive anyway and when people like it or at least accept it they get seal of approval and it gets filed away to be mostly forgotten...your integrity is no longer questioned not to mention once you're emotionally invested, it's as if you are untouchable or undetectable until you do something that shatters the dream and has you reconsider your perspective of that individual (after all, you're usually constantly trying to justify things and patch the holes in the relationship in your own mind anyway) which they usually solidify the relationship with any supporting "evidence" they think they have "this is why he loves me, this is why I'm special"...because women think they know men much better than they will ever truly understand them.

 

And yet I'm always surprised when people are surprised when someone does something out of character when they find something that person has done or does that makes them question that perspective and judgment of that persons character...I can almost guarantee you everyone has at least something that would or could radically change your mind about someone.

 

Long story short..(just kidding)

 

The only time you're ever looking at things transparently, the only times you're ever using your head, the only time you're ever seeing things for what they are is in the beginning (in terms of red flags and warnings, you'll find out who a man really is much later character wise)...without that great big emotional attachment that clouds everything and buries all those "fears and doubts" at least long enough to fall for that person...but you know better, you should have known better when your gut tells you something is amiss and not adding up, or when somebody might have a questionable history or past...and you know when you're convincing yourself or a man is manipulating you ever so delicately as to make it look like he's not "trying to make you do anything you don't want to do" when in reality he's working his angle here and there are going to be white lies at the very least...so when you see this huge pattern and history and you just think to yourself "well...that was in the past, that's not today derr dee derrr" then you're a fool, because you're really rejecting the one thing that people can't control and paints the most accurate depiction of that persons behavior...to say that has no reflection on who the person is today is ridiculously naive, you underestimate and misunderstand the experiences of life and their impact on a person and even lack your own self-awareness to glue together the issues and pieces of your life...because bet your @ss, in the end...it all adds up for one reason or another, and guess what...you're not just doing things that you are even aware or conscious of, imagine that...ever looked back and had an epiphany that caused them to look back on their life in a whole new perspective or understanding? if not you're sorely in need of one.

 

Bottom line...these guys know what they're doing..they're not children, fools or rookies, and for the love of crack babies don't assume they are "mature"...I'm freaking 8 billions years old if they're "mature", they've been dating and playing the field for a while now, and it's not because they're not finding the right girl...and that's just the damn plain truth, men have plenty of wonderful women to choose from I assure you...they remember them. So of course they're using women for sex, but a lot of other things too...what they tell you is what they want the ladies to hear and because you think the guy is being genuine and at least partially honest you're already wanting to believe it, men are not cold-blooded but in the end they're going to get their needs met...even if it means wasting your time or just having another whirlwind romance.

[spiderowl]

I think I'd be wondering if he had the kind of empathy necessary to really get to know a woman and become attached to her. That sounds like an awful lot of short relationships. Listen to what he says about himself. When you talk about couples or relationships, what kinds of things does he say about himself? It's surprising how many people betray their real attitudes in a few offhand comments.

[lonesurvivorever]

You're reading the guy right in my book...it's self-preservation why men are defending this guy or saying their piece, there is a empathetic connection, especially if you might resemble "that guy" in so many ways for obvious reasons, be it age, dating history, or their current agenda. You'll notice that men make an effort to disassociate themselves from "other men" even though they engage in the same exact behavior with the same overall agenda, but then again, everyone is different right (including the agenda)? the possibilities are endless

 

I can assure you there will always be reasonable and somewhat believable histories of what someone is telling you versus what is actually the plain truth, but people know EXACTLY wtf they are doing they just don't admit it (denial mostly)...and how many people do you know that take responsibility and accountability for their own behavior and actions, have the greatest self-awareness and actually admit to their wrong-doings? I'm guessing not many, whenever someone is talking about their past it's about mostly the other person not themselves, right? it's always something external, always someone else, when they shouldn't be learning the most about their part in it and there's always some explanation that washes it away into the great black hole of life that's this huge "mystery" that nobody can explain or understand, it's that big abyss of unclaimed baggage that at convenience people can dump their trash in whenever they don't want to own up to their *****.

 

Because nobody wants to be seen as the "bad guy" or bad girl especially if they are, and people are salesmen, the best salesman get the most...sales. So they're going to explain to why or how they are different/better from x person that is getting the bad wrap, or better yet, say nothing at all and let you do the self-talk/convincing for them because you're too naive to know any better...men do this all the time and it usually works, women have a propensity of taking men at face value (for bob knows why) and falling for the facade also contributed by; lack of options, self-esteem issues, possibility of potential and promise for the future, all that crap...even going by just what men say and how they describe themselves which is all fantasy and image in their own mind anyway...even though people know something seems awry or a little too "justified", they want to believe the "magic" or continue on, that's why they do it...but everyone has an agenda, everyone has a need their looking to get met, and you can bet your jingle bells that most people are going to justify or cross any line in order to receive that in the end, whether it's manipulating the truth to a smaller pill that's easier to swallow or playing the victim, furthermore some people intentionally remain less self-aware to remove any potential guilt for really being honest with themselves about what they're actually doing...after all you can't take responsibility for something you never admit to or blame someone else for right (how convenient is that!), so why do that? why ruin your plastic self-created world?

 

Practically every damn guy is saying one of two things; "I just haven't found the right girl" or "I was hurt in the past"...it's the same song different singer...karaoke at that...but it's not the truth.

 

Women want to believe that for obvious reasons...maybe I'll be that "special one"...maybe he's just finally ready to just "settle down"...and that's the grab and it works for any guy, women manipulate themselves into thinking they know and understand men or even worse and don't know what the hell is going on anyway so they might as well trust him. But you already have your mind made up or you want to, all that man has to do is come around and sell that image to you, why? because you might think that what men say, what you see them do, what you think you know about men and how they feel is relative to what women think and feel or the men you think you know who portray or represent themselves as those "ideal men" or good men, because now you think you've got it figured out, now you think you have a living breathing example or several of them...but it's not the reality as a whole with men, men are self-preserving, hell...so are women, nobody is going to sell themselves in the worst light possible and people will live up to that facade that they've created for themselves no matter what because being anything else is too damn scary and different...then they might not get their needs met or at least what they want...therefore people lie, twist the truth and men also "have relationships to get sex" just like women might "have sex to get relationships" among other things like companionship and love.

 

Men especially going to paint a very vague, simplistic and even rose-y image of themselves and their romantic past, after all men don't talk a lot about that or go into great detail anyway right? women think men aren't expressive anyway and when people like it or at least accept it they get seal of approval and it gets filed away to be mostly forgotten...your integrity is no longer questioned not to mention once you're emotionally invested, it's as if you are untouchable or undetectable until you do something that shatters the dream and has you reconsider your perspective of that individual (after all, you're usually constantly trying to justify things and patch the holes in the relationship in your own mind anyway) which they usually solidify the relationship with any supporting "evidence" they think they have "this is why he loves me, this is why I'm special"...because women think they know men much better than they will ever truly understand them.

 

And yet I'm always surprised when people are surprised when someone does something out of character when they find something that person has done or does that makes them question that perspective and judgment of that persons character...I can almost guarantee you everyone has at least something that would or could radically change your mind about someone.

 

Long story short..(just kidding)

 

The only time you're ever looking at things transparently, the only times you're ever using your head, the only time you're ever seeing things for what they are is in the beginning (in terms of red flags and warnings, you'll find out who a man really is much later character wise)...without that great big emotional attachment that clouds everything and buries all those "fears and doubts" at least long enough to fall for that person...but you know better, you should have known better when your gut tells you something is amiss and not adding up, or when somebody might have a questionable history or past...and you know when you're convincing yourself or a man is manipulating you ever so delicately as to make it look like he's not "trying to make you do anything you don't want to do" when in reality he's working his angle here and there are going to be white lies at the very least...so when you see this huge pattern and history and you just think to yourself "well...that was in the past, that's not today derr dee derrr" then you're a fool, because you're really rejecting the one thing that people can't control and paints the most accurate depiction of that persons behavior...to say that has no reflection on who the person is today is ridiculously naive, you underestimate and misunderstand the experiences of life and their impact on a person and even lack your own self-awareness to glue together the issues and pieces of your life...because bet your @ss, in the end...it all adds up for one reason or another, and guess what...you're not just doing things that you are even aware or conscious of, imagine that...ever looked back and had an epiphany that caused them to look back on their life in a whole new perspective or understanding? if not you're sorely in need of one.

 

Bottom line...these guys know what they're doing..they're not children, fools or rookies, and for the love of crack babies don't assume they are "mature"...I'm freaking 8 billions years old if they're "mature", they've been dating and playing the field for a while now, and it's not because they're not finding the right girl...and that's just the damn plain truth, men have plenty of wonderful women to choose from I assure you...they remember them. So of course they're using women for sex, but a lot of other things too...what they tell you is what they want the ladies to hear and because you think the guy is being genuine and at least partially honest you're already wanting to believe it, men are not cold-blooded but in the end they're going to get their needs met...even if it means wasting your time or just having another whirlwind romance.

 

Bravo! Bravo! Wow, quite impressive for your long and thoughtful input. I totally agree with you, and I especially enjoy the last paragraph. That's the way they are.

In my case, I asked about his marriage history as the very first question. because I was going to judge on that for sure. If he said he's never married, then that would be too easy, I would totally stop asking more from there and run away However, his is a little more complicated as he married once in 20's. Regardless, I think I could still put him in the same category. This is the crucial cut line. If a girl ever believes that she will be the last one he plays in the field, good luck day dreaming. I certainly would never try that miracle. hehe Think about how ugly it could have been when he ended with his numerous exes. how many of the girls found their time was not worth it at all. I bet a considerate amount.

Thanks a lot again!

[potsticker]

These titles get me.

 

sometimes they get to me too... because often, to anyone else, the title and the topic aren't related at all, but because of the OP's perspective and frustration, they'll often misleadingly slant a title to convey emotion rather than logic. Like newspaper headlines. It's really quite annoying, but nothing different from what we deal with on a daily basis.

 

On the OP, it's good for you that you found out early that he was not the man for you. Many people have a public "persona" they don because of the social benefits. Some don't even do it consciously. I think you were a bit too invested in him before the date, and this may have caused you more anguish when you realized your incompatibility... after all, getting a glimpse into the real him shattered your fantasy/illusion of him. You should probably not emotionally invest so much before truly getting to know someone... that's an easy way to get hurt. Ofc it's not as easy as I'm making it out to be, though.

 

I do wish, though, that you wouldn't judge others' ways of life so harshly. The world is harsh enough as it is without us marginalizing each other for our differences. It really sorta just broke my heart while reading this thread, and usually I'm the guy making jokes and quips left and right.

[lonesurvivorever]

I think I'd be wondering if he had the kind of empathy necessary to really get to know a woman and become attached to her. That sounds like an awful lot of short relationships. Listen to what he says about himself. When you talk about couples or relationships, what kinds of things does he say about himself? It's surprising how many people betray their real attitudes in a few offhand comments.

 

I think you are wondering the right thing. I kept wondering the same thing. This guy might be in a very good disguise. He tried to be very caring at the early stage. But given how he reacted on the first date, my intuition tells me that he will change faces as the "relationship' evolves.

He says something like he is only seeking "happiness" in life which I found out soon he meant "pleasure". Enough said

[lonesurvivorever]

sometimes they get to me too... because often, to anyone else, the title and the topic aren't related at all, but because of the OP's perspective and frustration, they'll often misleadingly slant a title to convey emotion rather than logic. Like newspaper headlines. It's really quite annoying, but nothing different from what we deal with on a daily basis.

 

On the OP, it's good for you that you found out early that he was not the man for you. Many people have a public "persona" they don because of the social benefits. Some don't even do it consciously. I think you were a bit too invested in him before the date, and this may have caused you more anguish when you realized your incompatibility... after all, getting a glimpse into the real him shattered your fantasy/illusion of him. You should probably not emotionally invest so much before truly getting to know someone... that's an easy way to get hurt. Ofc it's not as easy as I'm making it out to be, though.

 

I do wish, though, that you wouldn't judge others' ways of life so harshly. The world is harsh enough as it is without us marginalizing each other for our differences. It really sorta just broke my heart while reading this thread, and usually I'm the guy making jokes and quips left and right.

 

haha, you know what, this would be the first time I want to clap loud after reading your post. You definitely analyzed to the bottom of my real issues. Emotionally invested so much before I really got to know him, that proves why I call myself naïve or immature. I shall never forget this big lesson. And thank you so much for your support all the way!

[RedRobin]

Was thinking about the title of your thread...

 

 

As a woman, I definitely use relationships as a convenience of 'free sex', as well as companionship.

 

 

I don't need men for financial support... I have good friends of both genders. I'm more than competent at things considered traditionally masculine (fixing cars, house projects, etc).

 

 

The only reason I seek out a man for a relationship is so that I can have reliable and fun sex/companionship with someone I trust and care about. Ideally he and our relationship would be a source of contentment and stability in an otherwise hectic and even ruthless world. So in alot of ways, I'm very much like a man in what I look for.

 

 

Even with those very simple requirements of mine... it is obvious that a lot of men do not get emotionally invested in the women they have 'relationships' with, so it is easier for them to go from woman to woman. Depending on the people they surround themselves with, there may be very few consequences for them to do that.

 

 

I think one important component to look for is the extent of their investment in things... emotional, financial, time, etc. People who are commitment oriented tend to exhibit that tendency in many areas of their life. This is a good measure of whether they are a good investment for you. You seem to have a good sense of this, so I'm sure you'll do just fine.