Men using relationships as a convenience of free sex

[lonesurvivorever]

Well yes because in an a relationship you don't have to go out looking for sex every night anymore because it's always there at home and most men don't have some Bootycall on standby

 

SO TRUE! very to the point!

[soccerrprp]

Great advice! I appreciate it. Yeah, you are totally right. As I put in my story on page 2, I chased after him first after being deluded by his super

decent and caring behavior as a professor in school.

No, he never wanted to tell me much about his history, I ASKED him very aggressively in the first minute.

Like you said, I did cut him loose and I will never be on his list. The reason I'm here is to seek some confirmations because I'm not experienced or savvy in dating or relationship.

 

Oh good. Move on.

[BradJacobs]

I don't see your long history or high numbers at all.

What would high numbers have to do with anything?

 

He's an older man. You're a younger woman. There should be a disparity in numbers just as there should be a disparity in relationship experience.

[lonesurvivorever]

Yes, I'd say he's suspect.

 

A guy in his 40's dating someone in their 20's... (shaking head) Every time a woman your age dates a guy his age, the guy gets the idea that this is what they can catch... and on it goes.

 

 

IMHO, he's already showed his colors by telling you all about his exploits. Why would you want a guy who has been around the block like that? Toss this one back... for someone in his 40's he doesn't seem to exhibit even a little of the class and respect that SHOULD be present at his age.

 

 

Not to mention... If you are going to go through the effort of basically being celibate while you check a guy out... don't waste it on some divorced 40 something international playboy dude either. What a waste of time. Find someone unmarried closer to your own age to spend your efforts, is my suggestion.

 

Each word you said is pure gold! Exactly, after you read what actually happened on the first date in the following, you will be more confirmed on the lack of CLASS and RESPECT from this guy.

What bothered me is that he truly showed the most CLASS and RESPECT I can find in a man while teaching in school. Then on the first date, he put on a completely different persona which is his true color that SHOCKED me. Call me naïve or innocent, at this age, I feel shamed by being fooled.

[BradJacobs]

I "forced" him to tell me everything about his past love life.

...you will be more confirmed on the lack of CLASS and RESPECT from this guy.

 

Pot meet kettle.

 

I'm not trying to say that you made the wrong decision to pass on him but don't act like you were nothing but classy and respectful when that isn't the case.

[lonesurvivorever]

I think you are very smart and had this guy pegged from the start. The real question here is why did you waste YOUR time?

 

Thank you for the compliment. You mean why I'm still wasting time here figuring the whole thing out. Well, I had waited a semester to finally know him on this personal level. During that time, I made some very silly emotional investments viewing him as a crush. I know it is crazy, but I just need some time to absorb the fact and forget all.

Also, I'd like to learn a big lesson out of this.

[Dogberry]

so this guy I just went on a date with told me he's been with all types of women from each continent in the world. He is in early 40's. He married once in his 20's and never again since then. No kids. He's dated with a ton of exotic women lasting from two months to more than two years. He met most of them at a bar or an event/party.

 

I'm pretty sure this man has too many serious problems. Commitment phobe is a major one. Since I'm pretty shy with relationship experiences, I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

Pretty much, i would say yes.

[ktya]

Let me weigh in here. Obviously you have written this guy off so im not going to post hes a creep/give him a second chance.

 

Im 37. Ive been in a lot of serious committed relationships including one engagement. Girls i date now look at my relationship history and ask similar questions, such as why have i never been married, in hunting for red flags. This guy is a bit older than me but its the same thing.

 

A man who was married for a few years in his 20s and had it not work out, with a penchant for younger women probably got a taste of the legal consequences of marriage early in the game. He was a professor who went corporate, so he probably had enough income to pay for a rock and a wedding - which means he lost a lot of money on that deal. We all know of at least one if not several guys by 40 who have watched as their now ex wives take houses, cars, and monthly payments to support their lifestyle. Throw kids into the mix and we all know a lot of guys whos woman left took their kids nailed them for child support and made it as difficult as possible for the guy to have a normal relationship with hem beyond writing checks. And we all know at least one story where the woman left because she was bored, or cheating, fell for an ex or whatever.

 

It is a personal preference but it is annoying to see "committment" = "marriage". Thats not the case. A man and a woman can see eachother every day, live together, and have no intents to ever cheat and be very committed to eachother without all he legal obligations that go along with marriage. Actually, i would argue that such a couple is more committed than a married couple for whom thousands of dollar in legal fees are required to separate, not to mention alimony and division of assets.

 

Myself, as a guy nearing his 40s with no kids i have had my share of experience with "fantastic women" whos crazy bubbled up and either destroyed the relationship or tried to destroy me. This guy is in his 40s, makes good money, and seems to have no problem attracting girls in their 20s. Why would he take the risk of marriage or kids for you? Just because thats your idea of committment? So to say he is serious about you he has to put half his assets in hock with you thousands on rings and a wedding and help you pop out a couple kids - and your on this trajectory before the first date.

 

Sure, some bumblehead guy in his early 20s with little relationship experience might gaze into your eyes and profess his never ending love to you, talk about your unborn children and plan your wedding on the first date but any girl ive been dating in their 30s would run like hell from such a ditzoid. Were old enough to know what a honeymoon period feels like and what can happen after it fades and the crazy that can lurk under the surface that will pop up once someone gets comfortable. Your kind of committment (marriage, kids) will only come with time - not with a grilling job interview where you are demanding personal details about his past relationships.

 

Guys his and my age are at a "cut the crap" phase mostly. Weve tried lying and covering up things and now realize that it aint worth it, if a serious relationship becomes of a dating partner shell figure it out anyway eventually and then we end up behind the 8 ball as she holds it over our head forever because we lied. So this guy was doing his best to respond to the interrogation that you called a date and now you fault him for both being honest and being a player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

 

For a guy to play you hes gotta lie to you and play you into thinking that either he or the relationship is something that its not. A guy being straight up real with you is not playing you.

 

Its unfortunate how these days women forget that half of courtship is their job. You want a man to marry you, put half his assets in hock, knock you up a few times and have the risk that you can walk away because "im not happy" you had better be a damn fine catch. That means solid with your own earning capacity, clean and organized in your home, show the traits that you can be a good mother, be dynamite in bed, keeping yourself in good shape and looking good, educated and compatible in conversation and on too of all that show the traits im looking for in a wife. Pretty tall order - acheivable but its going to take more than one date for me to evaluate and send the relationship down the marriage trajectory. Maybe some guy who has no luck with women might buy into that but the successful attractive, charming, assertive, confident guy? Good luck with that.

 

You need to mellow out in phase 1 of the relationship and go with the flow. If your having a good time with the guy for 3-6 months then you can test those waters. The first date you describe sounds like an interrogation to me and if i were him i might just have gotten up to go to the bathroom at that loud lounge, gotten some girls number up at the bar, driven you home and come back and taken my chances.

[HappyLove]

Let me weigh in here. Obviously you have written this guy off so im not going to post hes a creep/give him a second chance.

 

Im 37. Ive been in a lot of serious committed relationships including one engagement. Girls i date now look at my relationship history and ask similar questions, such as why have i never been married, in hunting for red flags. This guy is a bit older than me but its the same thing.

 

A man who was married for a few years in his 20s and had it not work out, with a penchant for younger women probably got a taste of the legal consequences of marriage early in the game. He was a professor who went corporate, so he probably had enough income to pay for a rock and a wedding - which means he lost a lot of money on that deal. We all know of at least one if not several guys by 40 who have watched as their now ex wives take houses, cars, and monthly payments to support their lifestyle. Throw kids into the mix and we all know a lot of guys whos woman left took their kids nailed them for child support and made it as difficult as possible for the guy to have a normal relationship with hem beyond writing checks. And we all know at least one story where the woman left because she was bored, or cheating, fell for an ex or whatever.

 

It is a personal preference but it is annoying to see "committment" = "marriage". Thats not the case. A man and a woman can see eachother every day, live together, and have no intents to ever cheat and be very committed to eachother without all he legal obligations that go along with marriage. Actually, i would argue that such a couple is more committed than a married couple for whom thousands of dollar in legal fees are required to separate, not to mention alimony and division of assets.

 

Myself, as a guy nearing his 40s with no kids i have had my share of experience with "fantastic women" whos crazy bubbled up and either destroyed the relationship or tried to destroy me. This guy is in his 40s, makes good money, and seems to have no problem attracting girls in their 20s. Why would he take the risk of marriage or kids for you? Just because thats your idea of committment? So to say he is serious about you he has to put half his assets in hock with you thousands on rings and a wedding and help you pop out a couple kids - and your on this trajectory before the first date.

 

Sure, some bumblehead guy in his early 20s with little relationship experience might gaze into your eyes and profess his never ending love to you, talk about your unborn children and plan your wedding on the first date but any girl ive been dating in their 30s would run like hell from such a ditzoid. Were old enough to know what a honeymoon period feels like and what can happen after it fades and the crazy that can lurk under the surface that will pop up once someone gets comfortable. Your kind of committment (marriage, kids) will only come with time - not with a grilling job interview where you are demanding personal details about his past relationships.

 

Guys his and my age are at a "cut the crap" phase mostly. Weve tried lying and covering up things and now realize that it aint worth it, if a serious relationship becomes of a dating partner shell figure it out anyway eventually and then we end up behind the 8 ball as she holds it over our head forever because we lied. So this guy was doing his best to respond to the interrogation that you called a date and now you fault him for both being honest and being a player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

 

For a guy to play you hes gotta lie to you and play you into thinking that either he or the relationship is something that its not. A guy being straight up real with you is not playing you.

 

Its unfortunate how these days women forget that half of courtship is their job. You want a man to marry you, put half his assets in hock, knock you up a few times and have the risk that you can walk away because "im not happy" you had better be a damn fine catch. That means solid with your own earning capacity, clean and organized in your home, show the traits that you can be a good mother, be dynamite in bed, keeping yourself in good shape and looking good, educated and compatible in conversation and on too of all that show the traits im looking for in a wife. Pretty tall order - acheivable but its going to take more than one date for me to evaluate and send the relationship down the marriage trajectory. Maybe some guy who has no luck with women might buy into that but the successful attractive, charming, assertive, confident guy? Good luck with that.

 

You need to mellow out in phase 1 of the relationship and go with the flow. If your having a good time with the guy for 3-6 months then you can test those waters. The first date you describe sounds like an interrogation to me and if i were him i might just have gotten up to go to the bathroom at that loud lounge, gotten some girls number up at the bar, driven you home and come back and taken my chances.

 

 

You seem VERY bitter. But you do make great points. At the same time even though OP could have taken it easier and not interrogated her date. I still have to commend her for not wasting her time on a dead end relationship. If a guy is 40 and still crying about what happened when he was 20...well sucks to be him. OP is very smart in not wasting her time with a hopeless case like this. Funny how older men like this try to get young girls in their twenties "in their prime" when they clearly aren't compatible in life experience and not looking for the same things. Many of these men would be better off with a woman their age who has also lived and may be looking for similar things.

[MissBee]

so this guy I just went on a date with told me he's been with all types of women from each continent in the world. He is in early 40's. He married once in his 20's and never again since then. No kids. He's dated with a ton of exotic women lasting from two months to more than two years. He met most of them at a bar or an event/party.

 

I'm pretty sure this man has too many serious problems. Commitment phobe is a major one. Since I'm pretty shy with relationship experiences, I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

Free as opposed to paying for it? I'm not sure what you mean by free.

 

He may be a commitment phobe but it doesn't mean he is into relationships for "free sex" or some people are serially monogamous, where they go from one short or long relationship to the next. I think if one just wants sex it's a lot easier to do the FWB than relationship thing in this day and age, so I don't think he'd need to be with a woman for 2 years in order to get "free sex." He may be someone not interested in marriage or kids and is fine with a relationship running its course after a time and moving on, doesn't mean he had no real feelings or saw it as free sex. But you two may be incompatible as his approach is obviously something you find strange and suspicious.

[ktya]

You seem VERY bitter. But you do make great points. At the same time even though OP could have taken it easier and not interrogated her date. I still have to commend her for not wasting her time on a dead end relationship. If a guy is 40 and still crying about what happened when he was 20...well sucks to be him. OP is very smart in not wasting her time with a hopeless case like this. Funny how older men like this try to get young girls in their twenties "in their prime" when they clearly aren't compatible in life experience and not looking for the same things. Many of these men would be better off with a woman their age who has also lived and may be looking for similar things.

 

Im not bitter. I have been in the past but thats just due to experience. A couple that meets in their early 20s, gets married and stays that way forever is very possible and happens all the time, but OP is almost 30 and no longer qualifies as a young naiive impressionable unscarred partner and the guy in his 40s doubly so. They both have had to have had bad experiences or they wouldnt be dating in the first place.

 

If i am bitter about anything, its the way child support and marriage laws are written for a time before women worked and when hanging in there and keeping it together was the norm; when in todays reality women are initiating 60% of divorces and separations, yet obtaining 92% of custodial guardianship and child support payments and happily remaining underemployed to keep the alimony payments flowing. The vast majority of post separation support services are for women with little to nothing for men at all. Im not against marriage as an institution - but women have got to look at the legal angle and realize that its a pretty bad deal for men. Men of mine and this guys age have been around long enough to realize this yet when we dont jump on that trajectory feet first women toss around labels like committment phobe. If signing the marriage papers meant that the man owned your womb for life you might be committment phobe too lol.

 

I doubt marriage and kids are in my future now. But thats not to say if the right girl came along that i wouldnt go for it. Just id take my time and be good and darn sure that she was worth all the legal risks that go along with it. Id be happy with a great cohabiting girlfriend and being fully committed.

[HappyLove]

Im not bitter. I have been in the past but thats just due to experience. A couple that meets in their early 20s, gets married and stays that way forever is very possible and happens all the time, but OP is almost 30 and no longer qualifies as a young naiive impressionable unscarred partner and the guy in his 40s doubly so. They both have had to have had bad experiences or they wouldnt be dating in the first place.

 

If i am bitter about anything, its the way child support and marriage laws are written for a time before women worked and when hanging in there and keeping it together was the norm; when in todays reality women are initiating 60% of divorces and separations, yet obtaining 92% of custodial guardianship and child support payments and happily remaining underemployed to keep the alimony payments flowing. The vast majority of post separation support services are for women with little to nothing for men at all. Im not against marriage as an institution - but women have got to look at the legal angle and realize that its a pretty bad deal for men. Men of mine and this guys age have been around long enough to realize this yet when we dont jump on that trajectory feet first women toss around labels like committment phobe. If signing the marriage papers meant that the man owned your womb for life you might be committment phobe too lol.

 

I doubt marriage and kids are in my future now. But thats not to say if the right girl came along that i wouldnt go for it. Just id take my time and be good and darn sure that she was worth all the legal risks that go along with it. Id be happy with a great cohabiting girlfriend and being fully committed.

 

Men have themselves to blame too. There are plenty of well educated honest women out here who could afford to support themselves if God forbid their family fell apart. But a lot of men go for the young dimwit who can barely spell her name, but she's hot so that's ok. They get suckered into providing the dummy with a great lifestyle then wonder how she got everything in the end. Give some of the good women out here who will be honest, hard working, and love you forever, a chance. She may be a 6 instead of a 10 but she'll be worth it. At the end of the day good for you for knowing what you want marriage is not for everybody.

[carhill]

I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

IME, men generally seek out women for two things: Companionship and sex. They can receive/give affection which they will never receive from/give to other men and of course they have no interest in sex with men if they're hetero. For some men, it isn't the person which matters, it's the companionship and sex, hence they move from one woman to another as they feel like it. The ones with the most social power *can* do this the easiest, as they are the most popular with women; just because they are popular doesn't mean they have to, but they *can*.

 

Secondly, men are pragmatists. This is an outgrowth of problem solving and solution oriented socialization, as well as competition with other males in all aspects of life. If a man doesn't figure out what works to beat the competition, he is the loser. If it happens often, he's a loser for life. Few men aspire to be losers, as society, and women, love winners. Hence, men do what is necessary, and what works, to win, whether that be with other men or to get his companionship and sexual desires filled by a woman. The best of these men are very good at winning.

 

Lastly, people 'use' relationships with other people all the time. People 'use' other people. People 'take'. That's the id at work. Complete self-interest. Some are better at it than others; with some, the taker is desirable so the taking doesn't seem that onerous. It all depends. This guy has his ducks together to get that kind of action consistently at social events. He's good. Perhaps admire him for his successes and see that he's just a different cup of tea than you wish to drink. Plenty of other ladies to drink his brand of tea. Plenty of men to drink yours. You'll find them.

[Keenly]

Men have themselves to blame too. There are plenty of well educated honest women out here who could afford to support themselves if God forbid their family fell apart. But a lot of men go for the young dimwit who can barely spell her name, but she's hot so that's ok. They get suckered into providing the dummy with a great lifestyle then wonder how she got everything in the end. Give some of the good women out here who will be honest, hard working, and love you forever, a chance. She may be a 6 instead of a 10 but she'll be worth it. At the end of the day good for you for knowing what you want marriage is not for everybody.

 

So its men's fault that the laws are biased ?

 

What? I think you lost this discussion.

[clia]

I disagree with some of your "red" flags.

 

On the first date, to my big surprise, unlike other men I dated, he didn't even bring me to a nice place for dinner. He said something like let's have a couple drinks first then go with the flow. THE FIRST BIG RED FLAG! The place he chose turned out to be a mediocre loud lounge that was not a fit for good date conversation.

 

It's not uncommon to go for drinks on a first date and then decide to parlay that into dinner if things are going well. Yes, it is nice to go for dinner on a first date, but some men and women do not want to commit to the cost and length of such a date in case you don't hit it off. As a result, it is easier to plan drinks, where you can end the date fairly quickly if things aren't going well. In my opinion, this is not a red flag at all.

 

Then I initiated to change to a speakeasy one, we went there. Right on the way, he started asking my age. The second buzzkill. You don't ask your former student/lady of the night age stuff right before the date officially starts, OK?. It was rude. Why he was eager to find out, not sure.

 

If you were his student and are much younger than him, I don't find this to be a red flag at all either. I can see him wanting to know how much younger you are than him.

 

Because I sensed the thing between us might be toxic for me while ago,

 

But you went out on a date with him anyway...

 

I decided to ask his love history right at the beginning, very frankly. He kept laughing but he was being very honest. He said in a semi-bragging, proud tone that at 40, he dated all types of women in the city from EACH CONTINENT in the world. He dated those immigrants especially from asia extensively. He never dated his own race or ethnicity, like white women because "they are boring". More interesting, for one or two particular countries, he needed quite a while to count the numbers he dated, like 5 or 6. (Think about all the other countries or continents, think about the total would be adding up to, everyone)

 

I actually think grilling someone on their love history on a first date is rude. He kept laughing because he was probably shocked at your immaturity. Also, there are only seven continents, so I don't think that particular number is all that jarring for a guy in his 40s. It's not surprising at all that he has dated more women than you have men, given that he's got about 20 years on you.

 

When I mentioned how his most relationships ended, he gave me another RED FLAG: interests differ. That's total BS.

 

I don't see why you think this is a red flag either. Do you think relationships can't end because interests differ? A lot of people break up for that very reason. That standing alone just isn't a red flag.

 

And he went on saying that to live with someone will make the relationship going towards a very unromantic way. THIS! Totally disgusted me!

 

Are you talking about living with someone before marriage? He's been married so he probably has experience with this. Have you ever lived with a man?

 

This guy probably know nothing what true love is. Strong signal of commitment phobe, womanizer, etc

 

Maybe, maybe not. You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

 

The better yet to come, after I had a couple drinks, he started to show his real side. I would never imagine a professor would directly bring up sex on his first date: he asked me my opinion on his firm belief that SEX LEADS TO HAPPINESS.

 

What did you say?

 

Right after, he kissed me on the lips suddenly in a seducing way without even asking for my permission. This sudden turn of his image made me just speechless.

 

You aggressively pursued and chased him and now you are shocked that he went for a kiss on your first date? After you texted him "I think you should have known what I really want from you" (per your last thread). Again, not uncommon for a guy to go for a kiss on a first date. I mean...seriously? What did you do?

 

It was the most unpleasant date I went on.

 

Good, then you never have to go out with him again. But, I do think you are overreacting to a lot of things.

Edited February 5, 2014 by clia

[Eau Claire]

so this guy I just went on a date with told me he's been with all types of women from each continent in the world. He is in early 40's. He married once in his 20's and never again since then. No kids. He's dated with a ton of exotic women lasting from two months to more than two years. He met most of them at a bar or an event/party.

 

I'm pretty sure this man has too many serious problems. Commitment phobe is a major one. Since I'm pretty shy with relationship experiences, I'd like you guys to shed some light on my doubts. For a middle age guy like him, he apparently has had several dozens of what he claimed "relationships". Now he is alone again. So these several dozens all dissolved. Does that say some men like him are using relationships more as a convenience of free sex?

 

He told you this on a first date. Did you sleep with him? No. So, how many of your friends would want to date him again? Zero. My friends....zero.

 

All too silly. He has had almost no dates ( beyond the first) or sex except for what he has paid for.

[Phantom888]

When I started online dating after my divorce, I was 35, and had some hit and miss experiences. I am not a committment phobe. I always wanted to find a serious long term relationship with someone I completely click with. I came close 2 times in the last 4 years, but didn't work. Finally I found my current GF and she is perfect for me. I was not about to let her get away, so I put in all my effort to make this one work. In between I had a few flings, and lots of sex with several wonderful women. But in the end they were not for me, so I kept searching.

[ktya]

I actually think grilling someone on their love history on a first date is rude. He kept laughing because he was probably shocked at your immaturity. Also, there are only seven continents, so I don't think that particular number is all that jarring for a guy in his 40s. It's not surprising at all that he has dated more women than you have men, given that he's got about 20 years on you.

 

Absolutely. Normally on a first date, talking about your exes in any way is anathema and is a red flag that shows that maybe your not over your previous relationship. On this first date, she was grilling him and goading him into talking about what is universally common dating knowledge that is anathema, and then when she didn't like the answers called it a red flag.

 

Information about previous partners is a somewhat private matter, especially that early on in dating. Everyone has heard the story of the guy who marries a girl and then finds out that she's slept with a ton of guys and freaks out about it. Yet he was perfectly happy before.

 

I think that this guy humored her pretty good and told her the truth as best as he could because he didn't feel like lying about it. I would have opened up a bit and then shut the topic down once she wanted so many details, and if she kept needling me I'd have ended the date.

 

Like guy has dated women from all seven continents. Why ask how many from each continent? Why not ask for their name and contact information so she could call them and check his references too? This was a first date not a job interview.

[HappyLove]

So its men's fault that the laws are biased ?

 

What? I think you lost this discussion.

 

No, I'm saying a lot of times the spouse who can not support themselves gets money that includes MEN!

[lonesurvivorever]

Let me weigh in here. Obviously you have written this guy off so im not going to post hes a creep/give him a second chance.

 

Im 37. Ive been in a lot of serious committed relationships including one engagement. Girls i date now look at my relationship history and ask similar questions, such as why have i never been married, in hunting for red flags. This guy is a bit older than me but its the same thing.

 

A man who was married for a few years in his 20s and had it not work out, with a penchant for younger women probably got a taste of the legal consequences of marriage early in the game. He was a professor who went corporate, so he probably had enough income to pay for a rock and a wedding - which means he lost a lot of money on that deal. We all know of at least one if not several guys by 40 who have watched as their now ex wives take houses, cars, and monthly payments to support their lifestyle. Throw kids into the mix and we all know a lot of guys whos woman left took their kids nailed them for child support and made it as difficult as possible for the guy to have a normal relationship with hem beyond writing checks. And we all know at least one story where the woman left because she was bored, or cheating, fell for an ex or whatever.

 

It is a personal preference but it is annoying to see "committment" = "marriage". Thats not the case. A man and a woman can see eachother every day, live together, and have no intents to ever cheat and be very committed to eachother without all he legal obligations that go along with marriage. Actually, i would argue that such a couple is more committed than a married couple for whom thousands of dollar in legal fees are required to separate, not to mention alimony and division of assets.

 

Myself, as a guy nearing his 40s with no kids i have had my share of experience with "fantastic women" whos crazy bubbled up and either destroyed the relationship or tried to destroy me. This guy is in his 40s, makes good money, and seems to have no problem attracting girls in their 20s. Why would he take the risk of marriage or kids for you? Just because thats your idea of committment? So to say he is serious about you he has to put half his assets in hock with you thousands on rings and a wedding and help you pop out a couple kids - and your on this trajectory before the first date.

 

Sure, some bumblehead guy in his early 20s with little relationship experience might gaze into your eyes and profess his never ending love to you, talk about your unborn children and plan your wedding on the first date but any girl ive been dating in their 30s would run like hell from such a ditzoid. Were old enough to know what a honeymoon period feels like and what can happen after it fades and the crazy that can lurk under the surface that will pop up once someone gets comfortable. Your kind of committment (marriage, kids) will only come with time - not with a grilling job interview where you are demanding personal details about his past relationships.

 

Guys his and my age are at a "cut the crap" phase mostly. Weve tried lying and covering up things and now realize that it aint worth it, if a serious relationship becomes of a dating partner shell figure it out anyway eventually and then we end up behind the 8 ball as she holds it over our head forever because we lied. So this guy was doing his best to respond to the interrogation that you called a date and now you fault him for both being honest and being a player, even though that doesnt make any sense.

 

For a guy to play you hes gotta lie to you and play you into thinking that either he or the relationship is something that its not. A guy being straight up real with you is not playing you.

 

Its unfortunate how these days women forget that half of courtship is their job. You want a man to marry you, put half his assets in hock, knock you up a few times and have the risk that you can walk away because "im not happy" you had better be a damn fine catch. That means solid with your own earning capacity, clean and organized in your home, show the traits that you can be a good mother, be dynamite in bed, keeping yourself in good shape and looking good, educated and compatible in conversation and on too of all that show the traits im looking for in a wife. Pretty tall order - acheivable but its going to take more than one date for me to evaluate and send the relationship down the marriage trajectory. Maybe some guy who has no luck with women might buy into that but the successful attractive, charming, assertive, confident guy? Good luck with that.

 

You need to mellow out in phase 1 of the relationship and go with the flow. If your having a good time with the guy for 3-6 months then you can test those waters. The first date you describe sounds like an interrogation to me and if i were him i might just have gotten up to go to the bathroom at that loud lounge, gotten some girls number up at the bar, driven you home and come back and taken my chances.

 

Thank you SO MUCH for the great effort you put in your response! I appreciate it a lot. Now please allow me to respectfully disagree with some parts of it.

 

First, I come from a different culture background, very strict and old-fashioned upbringing. I treat relationships and especially sex very seriously. I mostly don't do it if without love. I believe as a female, it's my first priority to maintain my "cleanness" especially at an age when closer to motherhood.

 

Second, the only reason I chased after this guy initially was because I viewed him as the most honest, trustworthy and reliable man that is "supposed to be" serious about love life or family minded. I used to seek prestige, power and status in a man. I used to only date those BSD alpha types. He is VERY NOT! None of his pedigree matches my previous standards. And this is a man I will never bother to talk to if I meet at bar. What captured me so deeply from him before was how he carried himself in school, in front of students. I was helplessly melted by the way he treated everybody with great responsibility and warmness. I gave up all my standards for him. I was really hoping to connect with him on a very intellectual level and to find something meaningful with him. Turned out a colossal disappointment. This guy only wants "pleasure" or "happiness" in his life as he told me and he insisted "SEX LEADS TO HAPPINESS".

 

Pure shallow, pure gross. trust me, he is no decent guy. He is even indifferent to playing gentleman on first date, based on what he did to me. No respect.

 

It amused me when I saw you mentioned the "interrogation" Yeah, the "interrogation" was pretty intense haha and he played it cool. of course I know it could be viewed as a BUZZKILL from the other's side and certainly not something sophisticated from me. I was well aware of that but I did on purpose and I think I did the best thing. No time to waste with a man if you find his past so disturbing to you. I called it off right after.

 

Your take is always based on man's perspective so I can say you are somehow self-centered. Due to the non disputable different nature of the two sexes, women should always be more careful with the mate they select. Why? One is because of the fertility thing. You say a girl goes on dates with him, he sexes her as he wishes, one day, he suddenly claims that something wrong between the two. And he could just wipe his ass and walk away. There's much more burden for the girl to bear, trust me. And for a woman my age, this could be a serious issue. How long can you waste with some loser that is highly possible to end up with no kids, no love of own family when he has lost all his sexual power, sad and alone. Certainly, I don't settle for less like that. His prime days as a man will end soon too, you will see.

[lonesurvivorever]

You seem VERY bitter. But you do make great points. At the same time even though OP could have taken it easier and not interrogated her date. I still have to commend her for not wasting her time on a dead end relationship. If a guy is 40 and still crying about what happened when he was 20...well sucks to be him. OP is very smart in not wasting her time with a hopeless case like this. Funny how older men like this try to get young girls in their twenties "in their prime" when they clearly aren't compatible in life experience and not looking for the same things. Many of these men would be better off with a woman their age who has also lived and may be looking for similar things.

 

Thank you for your compliments as always. I really think we are on the same page.

 

I'd say the most stupid thing a woman could do would be wasting time with a man who would not offer what she needs. After a serious round of "convenience and fun", the man's happily left and moved on, she had to absorb everything bitter left and her "peak days" in the market are counting.

[lonesurvivorever]

Free as opposed to paying for it? I'm not sure what you mean by free.

 

He may be a commitment phobe but it doesn't mean he is into relationships for "free sex" or some people are serially monogamous, where they go from one short or long relationship to the next. I think if one just wants sex it's a lot easier to do the FWB than relationship thing in this day and age, so I don't think he'd need to be with a woman for 2 years in order to get "free sex." He may be someone not interested in marriage or kids and is fine with a relationship running its course after a time and moving on, doesn't mean he had no real feelings or saw it as free sex. But you two may be incompatible as his approach is obviously something you find strange and suspicious.

 

Good question, I realized the word "free" is somewhat confusing. You see, if a guy has to go get women for sex, if not from a pro, he would still most likely invest a certain amount of money and time to get the woman. Like taking her out, and pleasing her. All needs investment. But if it is a relationship, he would not need doing that constantly.

 

What you said are absolutely right, he and I are so not compatible. And my approach is something he finds strange and suspicious as well. lol

[lonesurvivorever]

IME, men generally seek out women for two things: Companionship and sex. They can receive/give affection which they will never receive from/give to other men and of course they have no interest in sex with men if they're hetero. For some men, it isn't the person which matters, it's the companionship and sex, hence they move from one woman to another as they feel like it. The ones with the most social power *can* do this the easiest, as they are the most popular with women; just because they are popular doesn't mean they have to, but they *can*.

 

Secondly, men are pragmatists. This is an outgrowth of problem solving and solution oriented socialization, as well as competition with other males in all aspects of life. If a man doesn't figure out what works to beat the competition, he is the loser. If it happens often, he's a loser for life. Few men aspire to be losers, as society, and women, love winners. Hence, men do what is necessary, and what works, to win, whether that be with other men or to get his companionship and sexual desires filled by a woman. The best of these men are very good at winning.

 

Lastly, people 'use' relationships with other people all the time. People 'use' other people. People 'take'. That's the id at work. Complete self-interest. Some are better at it than others; with some, the taker is desirable so the taking doesn't seem that onerous. It all depends. This guy has his ducks together to get that kind of action consistently at social events. He's good. Perhaps admire him for his successes and see that he's just a different cup of tea than you wish to drink. Plenty of other ladies to drink his brand of tea. Plenty of men to drink yours. You'll find them.

 

Thanks for the great input. I totally agree with the part "

For some men, it isn't the person which matters, it's the companionship and sex" and everything else you said. Yeah, I admit he is quite good at making people feel happy and cared for, even though he is not THAT successful. One example: he told me he has been hit on by a couple other female students besides me and he turned them down. It shows he does have something to draw young admirers.

[lonesurvivorever]

I disagree with some of your "red" flags.

 

 

 

It's not uncommon to go for drinks on a first date and then decide to parlay that into dinner if things are going well. Yes, it is nice to go for dinner on a first date, but some men and women do not want to commit to the cost and length of such a date in case you don't hit it off. As a result, it is easier to plan drinks, where you can end the date fairly quickly if things aren't going well. In my opinion, this is not a red flag at all.

 

 

 

If you were his student and are much younger than him, I don't find this to be a red flag at all either. I can see him wanting to know how much younger you are than him.

 

 

 

But you went out on a date with him anyway...

 

 

 

I actually think grilling someone on their love history on a first date is rude. He kept laughing because he was probably shocked at your immaturity. Also, there are only seven continents, so I don't think that particular number is all that jarring for a guy in his 40s. It's not surprising at all that he has dated more women than you have men, given that he's got about 20 years on you.

 

 

 

I don't see why you think this is a red flag either. Do you think relationships can't end because interests differ? A lot of people break up for that very reason. That standing alone just isn't a red flag.

 

 

 

Are you talking about living with someone before marriage? He's been married so he probably has experience with this. Have you ever lived with a man?

 

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

 

 

 

What did you say?

 

 

 

You aggressively pursued and chased him and now you are shocked that he went for a kiss on your first date? After you texted him "I think you should have known what I really want from you" (per your last thread). Again, not uncommon for a guy to go for a kiss on a first date. I mean...seriously? What did you do?

 

 

 

Good, then you never have to go out with him again. But, I do think you are overreacting to a lot of things.

 

Thanks for your great effort here. I'm very impressed you paid so much attention, even went through my last thread. hope you are not him, lol

 

Call me high pride or high maintenance.

1. I went on first dates quite often, mostly with men who are more successful than he is. Some are total players, but even the biggest player who only wants to get in my pants would make thorough plans for the first date, make reservations well in advance and bring me to a tasteful fine-dining restaurant. This 40 yrs old "sophisticated" professional/ professor first asked me to meet at a park in the chilling cold, after I hinted, then brought me to a place that was so loud that is better for college students to hang out. Later, I suggested we changed to a more quiet and tasteful lounge and he told me he's been to this lounge a million times. See how he values me in his mind?

 

2. I'm not much younger, I'm approaching 30.

3. I went on date to figure out all at once so I can give myself a break after.

4. No, I don't agree. Interests differ could be the most conniving excuse. If he say all his relationship ended because of that, you will buy it? hehe. I'm sure he dumped quite a few of them after getting enough from them underneath that lame excuse.

5. I've never lived with any man. I would save that for marriage. Sounds unpractical I know. But that is the way I am.

6. Sex leads to happiness? I said I don't think so.

7. I tried my best to maintain my manner, did nothing. Even though it would not be overreacted if I slap him for not behaving. I never initiated anything.

 

Your next round of evaluations will always be appreciated. Thanks!

[pickflicker]

Thanks for your great effort here. I'm very impressed you paid so much attention, even went through my last thread. hope you are not him, lol

 

Call me high pride or high maintenance.

1. I went on first dates quite often, mostly with men who are more successful than he is. Some are total players, but even the biggest player who only wants to get in my pants would make thorough plans for the first date, make reservations well in advance and bring me to a tasteful fine-dining restaurant. This 40 yrs old "sophisticated" professional/ professor first asked me to meet at a park in the chilling cold, after I hinted, then brought me to a place that was so loud that is better for college students to hang out. Later, I suggested we changed to a more quiet and tasteful lounge and he told me he's been to this lounge a million times. See how he values me in his mind?

 

2. I'm not much younger, I'm approaching 30.

3. I went on date to figure out all at once so I can give myself a break after.

4. No, I don't agree. Interests differ could be the most conniving excuse. If he say all his relationship ended because of that, you will buy it? hehe. I'm sure he dumped quite a few of them after getting enough from them underneath that lame excuse.

5. I've never lived with any man. I would save that for marriage. Sounds unpractical I know. But that is the way I am.

6. Sex leads to happiness? I said I don't think so.

7. I tried my best to maintain my manner, did nothing. Even though it would not be overreacted if I slap him for not behaving. I never initiated anything.

 

Your next round of evaluations will always be appreciated. Thanks!

 

To be honest, after reading all of this, this guy dodged a bullet. Grilling someone about their relationship past on the first date? I've had guys do this to me and made sure that I never saw them again. He may have a chequered dating history, but you aren't exactly treating this fit with the respect one should expect on a first date.

 

I reckon the red flags lie with you.