Over in a heartbeat

[msoptimistic]

Thanks wasntlooking...not sure how much it is going to help in the coming days to think of his bad qualities...it amazes me how much people who have been through this can see by reading a person's posts...there were a couple of remarks made that by reading my posts some people could tell that if he came back I'd fall right back in the routine of things...unfortunately, last week I know that would be true...this week its only 98% true...so maybe there will be NC long enough for me to get to 1% true (not sure there would be a 0%?-have to think about that one!).

[Owl]

What have you told your H to cover your depression over the end of the affair?

 

Have you taken action to fix/end things there yet?

[msoptimistic]

Hello Owl...I have to say I look forward to reading your posts...definitely keeps a person grounded! First of all I have not come completely clean with H although I have been seeing a counselor and have told him that there are alot of issues that both me and we have to deal with...and I must admit that the last week has been tougher than I imagined..now I look at H and think "Do I want him now that the A is gone?" "Was I just holding on to him because I would have been the guilty bad guy leaving in the midst of the A?" "Would he be better off without me?" "Will we be happy 1, 5, or 10 years from now?" He recognizes that something has changed but he blames lots of different things for the depression. We just kind of exist day to day.

On another note, did have a phone call yesterday from MM. Lots of peoplpe on here told me that would happen...didn't recognize the different number he used...he asked about meeting to "talk" which I am going to assume is man code for something else!!! God I miss him, but didn't give in...I'm sure I wasn't as forceful as I should have been

.in fact I'm sure my voice cracked...looked at duration of call..18 seconds...about 19 seconds too long!

Still catch myself wondering what he's going through or thinking as I think all OWs do in these situations..you can't turn love off just because its wrong...maybe you just learn that loving someone completely doesn't mean you'll ever be together...you either become at

ppeace and grateful for the experience or sad/bitter and let regret eat you alive

[Owl]

Well...I can't really offer you any more advice than I have at this point.

 

Nothing will change until YOU CHANGE SOMETHING.

 

You know you need to tell your H. And you know that the longer you delay, the more you're going to work to avoid telling him...you'll ratioinalize all these reasons not to do so.

 

You also know at the bottom line of it all that he deserves to know the truth, so that he can make his OWN decisions about remaining with you or not, based on the full knowledge and reality of where your relationship has gone.

 

That's all I got for you now.

 

Tell your H. See where things go from there.

 

Anything less is dishonest, and simply put less than he deserves.

[trippi1432]

OPT - Please do listen to Owl's advice. You have no idea how the dishonesty hurts more than the actual affair. My exH and I were on a path to reconcile our marriage (much like your situation with your husband)...but not knowing that there was an underlying element of an AP that created an emotional barrier to reconcile was more hurtful than anything else.

 

Instead of being given a choice, my exH felt he held the cards in ME having to work the hardest in fixing the marriage while he did very little. That had been our relationship for 15 years...me doing everything while he did what he wanted....so yes, he should have had some "skin in the game" of working on the marriage too instead of being consumed with himself and his AP. You can't fix, fight for or work on a marriage when there is a 3rd party and you don't know about it.

 

Omitting the facts to your husband to cover up your depression over the MM is dishonest. He thinks he is working on the marriage because you have told him it's not out of the woods yet, that it's off course..etc. He will internalize that, I know I did.....and when the AP came out of the woodwork finally, the dishonesty and lack of being able to make my own decisions about our marriage with all the facts, hurt worse than the actual infidelity.

 

Please do think about it and even discuss it with your counselor. Does he have all the facts about the affair continuing as well so he can give you proper guidance?

[MyEvilTwin]

I think you have to recreate your life one step at a time. So I agree with you that you hold off on telling your H, simply because that is too much emotional stuff to process and handle all at once, and you don't need to have a nervous breakdown.

However, that said, once you have handled the initial shock over the breakup with MM then it is time to do the next right thing, not become stagnant in cleaning up your life.

First--be 100% honest with yourself. If that looks like being alone without friends and family, then just acknowledge that that scenario is one that could have happened, you don't have to condemn yourself to it.

2nd--be 100% honest with the therapist. There is nothing to be gained from with-holding information from a therapist, actually, I view it as ridiculous. You're not paying someone to lie to them by omission. What a waste of time and energy that would be.

3rd--yes you have to get honest with your H and tell him about the affair.

But here is where you can save face for both of you--

If you figure out that this marriage should be over now, you can tell him at that point that an affair did happen. It will help him to get over you. Don't withhold it.

If you want to work on this marriage--then get back in the marriage and then tell him. Yes you get a little leeway with when that is in my book. Certainly not a long time.

Either way your H gets the truth. If you separate--you tell him so that he can dismiss you emotionally more easily. You do it for him--not to get it off your own chest.

If you try to stay married--you tell him because omission is a lie and lies are a barrier to intimacy. I assume at this point that you understand if you want to create better and deeper intimacy with your H that the affair must be exposed, and that there will be tears as well as growth along that road.

 

 

What you don't do is keep the affair to yourself and stay married. Because that's a roadblock to true intimacy, and at the end of the day what you want is true intimacy with a partner, no matter what person you end up with in years to come (perhaps someone you haven't even met yet) point being that you grow enough to learn what true intimacy is! You also want to learn what real respect is for a partner. As long as you are having an affair behind someone's back, you don't know what either of those are.

Ouch, those words might hurt, yes? It's ok to make mistakes, to learn, to grown, and to look someone in the eye and start having true respect for them which will lead for true intimacy.

Growth is painful but at the end of the day no matter what happens you will thank yourself for it and so will your H.

 

 

Is there a chance that you will want your H to stay married to you, and that your H will decide he doesn't want you once the affair is exposed and then you feel LOSS?

Yes.

Be a big girl on that.

Respect him enough to give him the ability to make up his own mind, his own choice.

 

 

Whatever you do stay NC with the MM. Nothing good can come of it and nothing needs to be said.

Edited February 13, 2014 by MyEvilTwin

[msoptimistic]

A couple of people have asked about being honest with counselor. Yes, I have been 100% totally honest with counselor, who by the way in no way whatsoever ever advocates divorce...his primary goal is to help heal the M....that being said, I have actually told him more than I have told on these boards because my primary concern here has been getting over MM and the counselor's main concern is husband, marriage and home. When H and I married 12 years ago we were both in very different places...I admit I have done most of the changing (and most of it for the better) while he has retired, quit his community service volunteer work and let alot of other things go...I may have already said this but the counselor pointed out that "men need women to need them" and "women want men to want them"...when we married I needed him...I needed him to be the financial breadwinner, the spiritual leader, the parental unit at times, and he was much more well-travelled and held a very high esteem in our community...I enjoyed meeting his circle of friends and set some new goals...one of which was the weight loss...he was all for it and supportive until I was successful now he tells me many times that he wishes I would gain it all back (always bringing in sweets and fast food)...I used to ask for his opinion about everything and never questioned his point of view. However, as the years have gone by, I have realized that he's not always right but I let him get to thinking he was by always doing everything his way. Very recently 2 people very close to him came to me and asked if everything was OK, but not because they realized we were having problems but because they had been around him so much they realized that he would have to be very difficult to live with...

Does any of this justify any of my actions? Absolutely not...in fact, he has probably gotten worse because of the hurt he has been through because of my actions. However, I must say that he knew of the attraction with MM from the very beginning and would encourage contact until he got uncomfortable with it then he wanted it all to end...too late, the connection was already there. He is a good man, but every single remark, every single thought, every single comment made in a TV show or movie has to be brought back to sex. He believes every woman he encounters "wants" him.

Was I driven to an A? Nope, I made my decisions and I assure you I am living with the consequences. My problem comes when I try to see myself with H for years to come, enjoying my retirement, always being wrong, never discussing anything because he already has the correct answer. And it is not just me. One of his friends quit contacting him a while back and when I ran into him shortly after that, he informed me that he too was tired of always being wrong. So, should I tell him everything? I can but it will make an already difficult situation impossible. That is one thing I cannot deal with right now. I would love a few days apart, just to see if I would miss him. Just to wonder what he's doing. But he says the minute I leave, it's over. There goes that black and white thought process again.

And on top of it all, MM has tried to reestablish contact...Yes, I know everyone on here told me it could and possibly would happen but No, I wasn't ready.

So I just read back through this post and I assure you I am not trying to make excused...this is the real world that I live in...again, H is a good man with some pretty hard to live with qualities...he would literally give the shirt off his back to someone in need but as soon as we got home, he'd have 50 reasons why the person was wrong to start with...that's just his nature and yes, I do believe it has gotten worse or else my nerves are wearing much thinner!

So, trying to get MM out of my heart and H out of my head...no wonder I stay tired all the time!

[woinlove]

A couple of people have asked about being honest with counselor. Yes, I have been 100% totally honest with counselor, who by the way in no way whatsoever ever advocates divorce...his primary goal is to help heal the M....that being said, I have actually told him more than I have told on these boards because my primary concern here has been getting over MM and the counselor's main concern is husband, marriage and home. When H and I married 12 years ago we were both in very different places...I admit I have done most of the changing (and most of it for the better) while he has retired, quit his community service volunteer work and let alot of other things go...I may have already said this but the counselor pointed out that "men need women to need them" and "women want men to want them"...when we married I needed him...I needed him to be the financial breadwinner, the spiritual leader, the parental unit at times, and he was much more well-travelled and held a very high esteem in our community...I enjoyed meeting his circle of friends and set some new goals...one of which was the weight loss...he was all for it and supportive until I was successful now he tells me many times that he wishes I would gain it all back (always bringing in sweets and fast food)...I used to ask for his opinion about everything and never questioned his point of view. However, as the years have gone by, I have realized that he's not always right but I let him get to thinking he was by always doing everything his way. Very recently 2 people very close to him came to me and asked if everything was OK, but not because they realized we were having problems but because they had been around him so much they realized that he would have to be very difficult to live with...

Does any of this justify any of my actions? Absolutely not...in fact, he has probably gotten worse because of the hurt he has been through because of my actions. However, I must say that he knew of the attraction with MM from the very beginning and would encourage contact until he got uncomfortable with it then he wanted it all to end...too late, the connection was already there. He is a good man, but every single remark, every single thought, every single comment made in a TV show or movie has to be brought back to sex. He believes every woman he encounters "wants" him.

Was I driven to an A? Nope, I made my decisions and I assure you I am living with the consequences. My problem comes when I try to see myself with H for years to come, enjoying my retirement, always being wrong, never discussing anything because he already has the correct answer. And it is not just me. One of his friends quit contacting him a while back and when I ran into him shortly after that, he informed me that he too was tired of always being wrong. So, should I tell him everything? I can but it will make an already difficult situation impossible. That is one thing I cannot deal with right now. I would love a few days apart, just to see if I would miss him. Just to wonder what he's doing. But he says the minute I leave, it's over. There goes that black and white thought process again.

And on top of it all, MM has tried to reestablish contact...Yes, I know everyone on here told me it could and possibly would happen but No, I wasn't ready.

So I just read back through this post and I assure you I am not trying to make excused...this is the real world that I live in...again, H is a good man with some pretty hard to live with qualities...he would literally give the shirt off his back to someone in need but as soon as we got home, he'd have 50 reasons why the person was wrong to start with...that's just his nature and yes, I do believe it has gotten worse or else my nerves are wearing much thinner!

So, trying to get MM out of my heart and H out of my head...no wonder I stay tired all the time!

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get across in this post - is it how difficult it is for you to commit to your M because of the person your H is? Do you feel you *should* stay married, but in your heart you don't really want to stay married?

 

I don't think you (or anyone) should stay married just out of some feeling that you should. If you can't tell your H the truth about your A, you might consider telling him the truth about how you feel about him as a person - in some way that isn't you just dumping on him, but honestly trying to explain how he is not a person who you admire or like to live with.

 

Everyone is different and if those traits make you not want to commit to M, then you shouldn't. If your H knew the truth, he may think the traits of loyalty and honesty are too important to him to stay married to you anyway. For me, those are really key traits. Perhaps you feel otherwise and would like to be with someone like your MM, who may not be loyal or honest, but has other traits you find important in a partner.

 

Just be true to yourself and don't stay married because of someone else's vision of what you should do or what kind of traits you should look for.

[MyEvilTwin]

A couple of people have asked about being honest with counselor. Yes, I have been 100% totally honest with counselor, who by the way in no way whatsoever ever advocates divorce...his primary goal is to help heal the M....that being said, I have actually told him more than I have told on these boards because my primary concern here has been getting over MM and the counselor's main concern is husband, marriage and home. When H and I married 12 years ago we were both in very different places...I admit I have done most of the changing (and most of it for the better) while he has retired, quit his community service volunteer work and let alot of other things go...I may have already said this but the counselor pointed out that "men need women to need them" and "women want men to want them"...when we married I needed him...I needed him to be the financial breadwinner, the spiritual leader, the parental unit at times, and he was much more well-travelled and held a very high esteem in our community...I enjoyed meeting his circle of friends and set some new goals...one of which was the weight loss...he was all for it and supportive until I was successful now he tells me many times that he wishes I would gain it all back (always bringing in sweets and fast food)...I used to ask for his opinion about everything and never questioned his point of view. However, as the years have gone by, I have realized that he's not always right but I let him get to thinking he was by always doing everything his way. Very recently 2 people very close to him came to me and asked if everything was OK, but not because they realized we were having problems but because they had been around him so much they realized that he would have to be very difficult to live with...

Does any of this justify any of my actions? Absolutely not...in fact, he has probably gotten worse because of the hurt he has been through because of my actions. However, I must say that he knew of the attraction with MM from the very beginning and would encourage contact until he got uncomfortable with it then he wanted it all to end...too late, the connection was already there. He is a good man, but every single remark, every single thought, every single comment made in a TV show or movie has to be brought back to sex. He believes every woman he encounters "wants" him.

Was I driven to an A? Nope, I made my decisions and I assure you I am living with the consequences. My problem comes when I try to see myself with H for years to come, enjoying my retirement, always being wrong, never discussing anything because he already has the correct answer. And it is not just me. One of his friends quit contacting him a while back and when I ran into him shortly after that, he informed me that he too was tired of always being wrong. So, should I tell him everything? I can but it will make an already difficult situation impossible. That is one thing I cannot deal with right now. I would love a few days apart, just to see if I would miss him. Just to wonder what he's doing. But he says the minute I leave, it's over. There goes that black and white thought process again.

And on top of it all, MM has tried to reestablish contact...Yes, I know everyone on here told me it could and possibly would happen but No, I wasn't ready.

So I just read back through this post and I assure you I am not trying to make excused...this is the real world that I live in...again, H is a good man with some pretty hard to live with qualities...he would literally give the shirt off his back to someone in need but as soon as we got home, he'd have 50 reasons why the person was wrong to start with...that's just his nature and yes, I do believe it has gotten worse or else my nerves are wearing much thinner!

So, trying to get MM out of my heart and H out of my head...no wonder I stay tired all the time!

 

 

I don't think affairs HAVE TO destroy a marriage. Actually, talking them out can be the beginning of finding the glue to put a broken marriage back together. Black and white thinking isn't my method either, but I do understand boundaries that individuals choose to have, whatever those may be, and they are highly personal.

The thing is that your marriage has zero ability to grow unless the two of you hash it all out. Why is that so? Because you are worlds apart from each other, as you well know. So he has traits you understandably don't like, and you have committed the big no-no act, and together in therapy you could hash it out, fight it out, argue it out, discuss it out, cry it out, laugh it out...but go FORWARD or let the whole thing go.

There's only one way to find out. Get the two of you in marriage therapy and hash it out. Otherwise, you throw in the towel on the marriage without finding out. If your love has vanished enough for that, then do it. But don't stagnantly stay in a marriage without getting real.

GET REAL or GET OUT.

[MyEvilTwin]

And I think you are afraid to grow with or without your H. Otherwise you would have simply left the marriage. You're afraid to let it go, you're afraid to grow within it, and so you stay stagnant while the clock on your life timeline is wasting away...but you combated that for awhile with an affair. Then it didn't feel like time was standing still, did it?

I understand the feeling of having a partner who is bossy, commandeering, or has the final say-so. This too can be overcome. He can change too is what I am saying! You may not think he has the ability to change, but you would be wrong. He can change just as you can.

Nobody is going to change wandering around blindly in confusion, gas lighting, downright lies, stagnation and complacency.

And you may have felt you were thriving in an affair behind your H's back, but the truth of it is that you were afraid to be a completely single person pursing a new relationship...you're afraid to be alone.

The thing is unless the two of you get real and honest in front of a counselor that can help guide you so that conversations don't end up being useless, you're not going to find out whether the two of you are even compatible.

Yep, you would be right to assume there would be a lot of difficult work ahead to bring your marriage up to a place you could have enough happiness to want to stay in it loyally.

At this point, what do you have to lose? Not the OM, already lost that...unless you are just ready to cave and go back to the farce and status quo....in which case quit wasting OUR time here on LS.

If you find out that your H has no desire for true intimacy and complacency is his forever MO no matter what you want then you have an answer there...but it's a real one, a valid reason to leave, and a fair enough future goal to pursue. AT least find out through a counselor...I don't think even you know if you love your H....

Edited February 14, 2014 by MyEvilTwin

[msoptimistic]

MET, you are right on many of your observations and I have read through them many times. I think you are correct when you say that in many ways I am afraid to be alone...many times I think it wouldn't be so bad as I have never lived independently and do wonder what it would be like. However, there are also lots of people whose opinions I trust and who are single who say it is horrible and I have no idea what it would be like. I don't.

I understand that in the bigger picture, the hard-to-live-with characteristics I have described about H are pretty trivial. I failed to point out that he cooks, cleans (sometimes), pays the bills, helps take care of older family members in both our familiee, etc. I guess you get what you look for and if you look for negative you'll find it everytime.

I do believe that his behaviors have been made worse by my bad behaviors. I wonder how many people who enter As realize just how much damage they are putting into motion? Either his behaviors have gotten worse or I began magnifying them when I needed him to look guilty of something?

I am battling the same NC issues with xMM as everyone else on here...I completely changed my cell phone account so as of this moment he has no way of getting in touch with me. Sound brave? Well quite the contrary. I talked to a close friend who knows and told her where the phone was and what I needed done...before I ever went back to my office she went and took care of it for me cause we both knew I'd never get the nerve. Thank God for friends! The catch is I cried like a baby when I realized it was done...couldnt help wondering what he would think if he tried to contact and realized it was NC for sure now! Yes I struggle and hurt and cry and grieve just ad much but no more than everyone else here searching for answers.

I do see an OC by myself right now..even he says its not hardly time to include H. If this M doesnt work I do not want it to be bc I let A dictate it...working on it but cant keep those thoughts away that it would be so much simpler to start over!

[MyEvilTwin]

Maybe it would be easier to start over, or maybe it would haunt you that you didn't really open up and become real with your H, thus finding out if the two of you could grow closer together or not.

You know, it's a risk to open your heart, even to someone you are married to, when you've had a comfortable wall.

I've been there, so have most people, and it's odd to come to the realization that you live with someone, have joint finances, that they get the say if you are on a respirator near death, that you have sex with them, and yet there are huge walls between you and that we can feel like small children opening up that vulnerability.

Biggest problem in most marriages is a lack of good communication.