Karma and the BS

[Confused48]

This is a tangent to the thread, "Do you want to harm the OM/OW."

 

I very much would like to harm the AP. Physically, emotionally, financially, any way any how. I know this is not healthy. I know it is better to forgive.

 

I don't trust Karma to do it for me. Not sure why bc I think for the most part Buddhism makes a lot of sense. Karma though, not so much. I've seen too many people getting away with too much horrible stuff. And good people getting sh*t on for no apparent reason.

 

For example, most of the BS on this site, most we all agree did not deserve to be cheated on. For the life of me I can't see what horrible thing I did that lead to a Karma payback like being made into a BS. Can someone explain how Karma works with respect to being made a BS? Is there someone, a BS, that sees what the reason is for this Karma in their life?

[TaraMaiden]

Read my link on Karma.

 

 

Please, please: Don't use the word karma if you don't know what it means.

[cozycottagelg]

I don't want to thread jack...but let me ask you this.

 

Do you think if you could/did harm the OW in the manner you dream/think about, do you see yourself feeling better?

[whichwayisup]

I think a person who chooses to have an affair whether it be a WS or an OW/OM do suffer in their own way. Pain is there anyway, that roller coaster ride the AP goes on, some totally 'lose' themselves and who they used to be, do things and think things they normally wouldn't do or think they were capable of pre-affair. I don't believe an OW or OM is truly 100% happy in an affair setting. Sure there may be some good and fun moments, but we've all read or some have experienced the real lows that an affair can do to someone.

 

I wish you peace in the near future! Hugs to you.

[Confused48]

 

Do you think if you could/did harm the OW in the manner you dream/think about, do you see yourself feeling better?

 

I feel the need to see some measure of justice or proper consequences. I know there have been some consequences to the AP. That does give me comfort. If there were more consequences, would I feel more comfort, I think so. For me to be the source of the harm, does not add or detract from the comfort.

[Confused48]

Read my link on Karma.

 

 

Please, please: Don't use the word karma if you don't know what it means.

 

I apologize if in my ignorance I offended you. I will read your link.

[TaraMaiden]

You didn't offend me. But if you check my threads/posts, it seems to be all people talk about on here, this thread being the most recent...

Karma getting their ex.

That is in fact why I created the link/thread; because it's an exceptionally common misconception; one that has not only been 'twisted' by a western ideal for revenge (moulded, I believe, by the concept of Sin = retribution) but is also common - to my astonishment - in the media and even some favourite and popular TV programmes (from the USA, it has to be said.....)

 

I've heard it incorrectly used in 'CSI Crime Scene Investigation', NCIS, 'Suits' Two-and-a-half men, Friends, and of all things, once on the Oprah show....although that was a long time ago.

 

I just thought I'd jump in quick to help!! :D

[Confused48]

You didn't offend me. But if you check my threads/posts, it seems to be all people talk about on here, this thread being the most recent...

Karma getting their ex.

That is in fact why I created the link/thread; because it's an exceptionally common misconception; one that has not only been 'twisted' by a western ideal for revenge (moulded, I believe, by the concept of Sin = retribution) but is also common - to my astonishment - in the media and even some favourite and popular TV programmes (from the USA, it has to be said.....)

 

I've heard it incorrectly used in 'CSI Crime Scene Investigation', NCIS, 'Suits' Two-and-a-half men, Friends, and of all things, once on the Oprah show....although that was a long time ago.

 

I just thought I'd jump in quick to help!! :D

 

So does Vipaka have anything to do with why an affair was visited upon me?

[TaraMaiden]

Who can tell?

 

We are all singularly responsible for our own Karma:

And given that Karma is volitional, wilful action, 'done' deliberately (be it thought, word or deed) this is why it's important to think carefully about what it is we really want to do.

 

Often, we act upon a specific perception: and a given perception might be hurtful, therefore making us stressed. ('Stressed' covers everything From 'Angry' to 'Zealous'.)

 

The important thing to consider when thinking about doing anything, is to question our own reaction.

Is it Skilful?

In other words, are we looking at this from every angle, and considering the implications, before acting?

 

See. it's not what is 'out there' that affects us, that counts.

It's how we deal with what affects us, that counts.

 

because the more 'skilful' our actions, the less 'aggressive' the Vipaka.

[TaraMaiden]

So does Vipaka have anything to do with why an affair was visited upon me?

 

HIS karma - does not create YOUR vipaka.

 

If you look at the first post of the linked thread in my signature, you will see that I mention the 4 unconjecturables - that is to say, Karma is one of the things we simply can't sit and work out - at least, not the full, wide implications or extent of its works.

 

All we can do, is look to ourselves, now, and think now, about what we think/say/do now.

 

Whatever anyone else gets up to is their concern.

How we react to it, process it, and let it affect us - is ours.

[Confused48]

HIS karma - does not create YOUR vipaka.

 

I get that. Now that I've read your post on karma. Thank you.

 

I think the theory is that my willful acts create vipaka. Is that right? If so, then is it also true that my being a BS is due to the vipaka I set in motion?

 

All we can do, is look to ourselves, now, and think now, about what we think/say/do now.

 

Whatever anyone else gets up to is their concern.

How we react to it, process it, and let it affect us - is ours.

 

This sounds great. I wish I could internalize it. I hear, understand, feel it is true, intellectually. Still I am suffering from not really getting it.

[drifter777]

This is a tangent to the thread, "Do you want to harm the OM/OW."

 

I very much would like to harm the AP. Physically, emotionally, financially, any way any how. I know this is not healthy. I know it is better to forgive.

To me this means you are re-directing the lion's share of the anger you feel for your WS at the AP. If the AP is a close friend or relative of yours then I can understand the anger as it is a double-betrayal. But if it is someone you don't know then why waste your emotional outrage at them? It's your WS that cheated. They betrayed you in that horrible way that only a spouse can do. It's the ultimate knife in the back and your WS stuck it there. You don't have to "let go" of your feelings for AP - that's probably not possible - but they were just willing participants in the no-strings sex your WS happily gave them.

For example, most of the BS on this site, most we all agree did not deserve to be cheated on. For the life of me I can't see what horrible thing I did that lead to a Karma payback like being made into a BS. Can someone explain how Karma works with respect to being made a BS? Is there someone, a BS, that sees what the reason is for this Karma in their life?

Certainly no BS deserved to be cheated on - that goes without saying. But the "kharma" thing doesn't mean that fate is going to even things out for you. The AP may not even have known your WS was married - your WS may have convinced them they were just separated or some other nonsense. When a wife is on the prowl all she has to do is go somewhere men are present and simply not turn down their advances. That's all it takes for her to get laid and I personally have a hard time getting to worked up with anger toward some random guy who took advantage of easy, no-strings sex. Men have to pursue, but there are plenty of women who enjoy being desired and will give up sex to reward it or keep it going. Especially women who spend time with the WH at work or school or whatever.

 

On d-day every BS want to kill their WS and the AP out of blinding rage and overwhelming sadness. Once their head clears from this initial shock I think that most focus most of this on their WS because they are the ones truly at fault. Intense anger with the AP is misplaced IMHO.

 

The world is not fair and life is hard. These facts are cornerstones of Buddhism. Wishing harm on another person really doesn't fit with any definition of Kharma. Stop wasting emotional energy hating the AP and start working on your own emotional condition.

[TaraMaiden]

I get that. Now that I've read your post on karma. Thank you.

No problem.

 

I think the theory is that my willful acts create vipaka. Is that right? If so, then is it also true that my being a BS is due to the vipaka I set in motion?

There is no knowing whether something that happens to you now, is as a result of what you have done, now.

If you subscribe to strict Buddhist philosophy, it's possible that the vipaka you reap now could be down to Karma in a previous life.

 

That's often too far-fetched to put forward, but as you brought it up, I thought I'd mention it.

 

I'm not suggesting even, that you believe a word of it, I'm simply explaining Buddhist thinking on the matter.

 

But even there, some Buddhists are divided; many (particularly adhering to a specific School. tradition or discipline), might consider what is known also as 'collective Karma': How did Hiroshima get bombed? And did all those poor jews deserve what they got in the Holocaust? Some matters are just too painful, complex and cruel to contemplate.

It's simply beyond our limited 'unenlightened' minds to be able to consider such matters either logically or dispassionately. That's why the Buddha advised against over-thinking it, and focusing instead on what happens now.

 

The fact is, and the fact remains, someone else's karmic actions had an effect on your mental stability, peace-of-mind and emotional security.

 

to what extent these actions continue to affect you, and for how long, is up to you.

But allowing such matters to invade your Conscious thinking, and steer it towards....'unskilful' points of view, is up to you....

 

 

This sounds great. I wish I could internalize it. I hear, understand, feel it is true, intellectually. Still I am suffering from not really getting it.

Interesting that you use the word suffering, because that is the standard translation of the word 'dukkha' used in the First Noble Truth of the Buddha's teachings:

Life is 'suffering'.

 

Sadly, this has been greatly misconstrued (almost as much as that damn Karma word!) and many people consider Buddhism to be 'pessimistic'.

 

It has been acknowledged now, that 'suffering' is not only too broad a term, but it's inaccurate and leads to misunderstanding.

A more recent more favoured word, is 'stressful' but this too, needs clarification.

 

The word 'dukkha' is also a word used in the Pali language, to denote an unevenly round wheel on a skewed axle. The ride undulates, and is not always comfortable, although it gets you from A to B and might make you laugh at times....Life is like that.....

 

But if we retain the original translation - suffering - the Buddha goes on to explain that the REASON we suffer, is because we insist on trying to hold on to impermanent things and make them continuous - and fail, and we shun the unpleasant wholesome things, but hold them to our hearts through our longing and wish that they were not so.... This is known as clinging or Grasping.

 

So you understand the truth of letting go, and not holding on to the negativity - but you persist in holding onto what ails you.

 

The question you must therefore ask yourself is this:

 

How does holding on to this, nourish me, benefit me, and feed me emotionally?

 

Somewhere, you may be getting an emotional payoff.

 

if you can't find it, why clutch the burning coal that wounds you so much?

[tired girl]

To me this means you are re-directing the lion's share of the anger you feel for your WS at the AP. If the AP is a close friend or relative of yours then I can understand the anger as it is a double-betrayal. But if it is someone you don't know then why waste your emotional outrage at them? It's your WS that cheated. They betrayed you in that horrible way that only a spouse can do. It's the ultimate knife in the back and your WS stuck it there. You don't have to "let go" of your feelings for AP - that's probably not possible - but they were just willing participants in the no-strings sex your WS happily gave them.

 

On d-day every BS want to kill their WS and the AP out of blinding rage and overwhelming sadness. Once their head clears from this initial shock I think that most focus most of this on their WS because they are the ones truly at fault. Intense anger with the AP is misplaced IMHO.

 

The world is not fair and life is hard. These facts are cornerstones of Buddhism. Wishing harm on another person really doesn't fit with any definition of Kharma. Stop wasting emotional energy hating the AP and start working on your own emotional condition.

 

QFT. I have never understood the emotional energy wasted on the AP. She owed me nothing , my H OTH owed me everything.

[Arieswoman]

I agree.

 

The OW/OM is not important, she was just available.

[Confused48]

To me this means you are re-directing the lion's share of the anger you feel for your WS at the AP. If the AP is a close friend or relative of yours then I can understand the anger as it is a double-betrayal.

 

The AP relentlessly pursued my WS. The AP did this same thing before to another. The AP used illegal means to gather info on WS that would make WS more vulnerable.

 

MY WS is remorseful. My WS is doing what ever to earn a second chance. These are reasons to have less anger towards WS than AP who is STILL pursuing WS. Yet, I have enough anger for WS that I'm not at all sure WS will get a second chance.

 

Stop wasting emotional energy hating the AP and start working on your own emotional condition.

 

I agree this would be a good idea. Very good. Easier said than done.

[drifter777]

The AP relentlessly pursued my WS. The AP did this same thing before to another. The AP used illegal means to gather info on WS that would make WS more vulnerable.

 

MY WS is remorseful. My WS is doing what ever to earn a second chance. These are reasons to have less anger towards WS than AP who is STILL pursuing WS. Yet, I have enough anger for WS that I'm not at all sure WS will get a second chance.

 

 

 

I agree this would be a good idea. Very good. Easier said than done.

Ok, I understand what you are saying. Just be sure you aren't making excuses for WS because you are not able to see the truth yet.

 

You seem like an intelligent person. I wonder how it is you can assign so little blame to your WS? If you are satisfied that your WS is earning reconciliation, isn't that all you really care about? What would you say to me if I told you what you are telling us?

[kalimata]

My name is kalimata. Literally translated as the black mother. Kali is the mother goddess, and the destroyer and consumer of all aspects of reality. As Kali, I represent the supreme mistress of the universe and the goddess of salvation.

 

As a BH, I turned to kalimata to find a rationale for all that has happened in my life. What did I do in my past life to deserve this pain? I am still grappling with this, and I hope that mother Kali will help me find answers.

 

Karma is indeed a difficult concept. For me it is difficult to understand karma without fully accepting and believing in reincarnation and the next-life. Focus on yourself and this life. What you do now will help set your karma for the next life.

 

Best wishes, so sorry you are here.

[ComingInHot]

I don't honestly know that I believe in Karma per say.

I believe that life is just sometimes plain UNfair, and it's not easy.

I believe, in our exOW's case, she was her own worst enemy. We all can be.

 

I believe that it's totally normal to have angry revenge day dreams about making the OW/OM "pay" (as well as WS*). Some of mine were delectably twisted...* But at the end of the day my "revenge thought" were an outlet for my anger, hurt which led to my ultimate letting go and healing. They stayed just that thoughts that no longer exist.

 

Karma? Eh, life can suck. It's just how it is. If people don't change, they'll dig their own graves. *

[Confused48]

Ok, I understand what you are saying. Just be sure you aren't making excuses for WS because you are not able to see the truth yet.

 

You seem like an intelligent person. I wonder how it is you can assign so little blame to your WS? If you are satisfied that your WS is earning reconciliation, isn't that all you really care about? What would you say to me if I told you what you are telling us?

 

I think I am now seeing the truth. Immediately post Dday I made the common mistake (coping mechanism) of putting to much of the blame on the AP, regardless of the circumstances.

 

Being here on LS and getting IC I realized that was faulty thinking. It did not take long before I fully understood the reprehensible nature of WS's part of the A. To WS's credit, WS was the first to point out I was doing this. WS used words like abusive, cruel, reprehensible and degenerant to describe WS's behavior, at a time when I could not yet see it that way.

 

WS being in IC and MC makes the anger towards WS greatly diminished. I think WS still has a long way to go before it will be gone entirely.

[frogss29]

I really don't blame the OW.

I try not to think about her.

In our case, she was an ex friend of mine.

Our families are/were still connected because of our 'children'

I am still reeling from all that has occurred - only been a very short 3 months since I discovered what has been going on.

BUT

in our case, our marriage IS and will continue to be stronger.

The issues in our marriage have been addressed and we have a healthier, more youthful, more FUN marriage.

There are still very unhappy times during my days.

There are still bouts of anger and anguish.

But I KNOW we will be OK.

So, I do not wish bad karma on anyone. Ever.

I am a firm believer that our actions and thoughts pave the way to our future life.

Mine are 'walking' towards happiness.

[Confused48]

I am still reeling from all that has occurred - only been a very short 3 months since I discovered what has been going on.

BUT

in our case, our marriage IS and will continue to be stronger.

The issues in our marriage have been addressed and we have a healthier, more youthful, more FUN marriage.

 

Wow. When I see someone say something like this at Dday+ 3 mo. I have to say I think there is serious rug sweeping going on. I'm so sorry you are here though. I wish you the best in your work to reconcile.

[frogss29]

Wow. When I see someone say something like this at Dday+ 3 mo. I have to say I think there is serious rug sweeping going on. I'm so sorry you are here though. I wish you the best in your work to reconcile.

 

We have been married a LONG time.

I am not ignoring what has gone on.

We are having IC and MC.

I am not saying everything is perfect.

Not by a long shot.

But I would not be here (still in my marriage) if I wasn't thinking/sure things will work out.

[Confusion_Reigns]

I've been told by my spiritual leaders that we should pray for those who have wronged us. Pray for them to heal inside so they don't do that to anyone else. Pray that we find peace inside of ourselves toward them who have wronged us. I've been told that the only thing that will help us is to pray for them. It took a long time, lots of self reflection, and honest humility for me to start to understand but it's true. The only thing that ever helped me let go of my anger was prayer and the honest to goodness wish for her well being.

 

When I think about it in a more mundane type of way...Yea she's got to have some extra kinda ugly inside of her to do what she did...and to do what she does....so I pray for her to become healed from that ugly...and to be honest, I feel bad for her. She's always running from one man to another, always seems to have a need to be better than this man's W or that man's W...I just can't imagine how that must feel inside to actually NEED some man to make one feel good about oneself...to be that limited by life...it's just got to suck.

[TaraMaiden]

I've been told by my spiritual leaders that we should pray for those who have wronged us. Pray for them to heal inside so they don't do that to anyone else. Pray that we find peace inside of ourselves toward them who have wronged us. ...

 

In Buddhism we also have Metta meditation.

 

I find

so incredibly soothing.

 

You'll need your speakers turned up, and it lasts around 10 minutes, but I play it every now and then, when my own particular horizon is obscured by storm-clouds....