supercallafraj Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) For all who read/ debated my last thread, I'd really appreciate your thoughts after I saw him over the weekend. Thread link: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/458167-why-won-t-he-pay I'm just going to list what happened and the situations we found ourselves in. Ultimately the question is would you stay or go, and if you stayed how do you articulate you're not happy without sounding emotional, needy or demanding? - I took people's advice and bought tickets somewhere ($20). He offered me the cash on the night for his ticket and I said 'my treat this time'. We bought rounds of beers - We were supposed to go for a country drive a day later... He text on the day to say 'I have some stuff to do, ill be in touch when I'm ready' so I asked for an estimate and he said 11-2pm. I got ready and he then at 2pm said he was going to the gym so would be ready for 3.30pm. He text at 3pm to say lets grab some food at a bar down town. Not sure what happened to the country drive! - We ordered some food and he says 'ill get it as you got the tickets the other night' The food was $12 each and the tickets were $20 - later we got a cab to his and I wasn't sure how much it would be and didnt have any cash to offer so I said I'd grab some beers. The cab ended up $6 and he put some candy in the basket too so I ended up paying over $11 for the stuff Is he a penny pincher? I still come away feeling undervalued yet conflicted and over analysing everything. There were other developments in other areas but interested for any returning folk's opinions. Last thread: Ok I appreciate this may cause some controversy here but I'd be very grateful of any advice/ thoughts on this... I would not say that I am a 'traditional' female and in fact I strive to be as equal to a man as I can. I'm in a good job and support myself etc. I can't work this out but still, despite feminist tendancies, I am turned off if a guy doesn't pay for at least one stand-alone round of drinks or entry to a club etc. on a date. I really like someone and we've been on 8 dates or so. Moving into relationship territory or he's certainly gave signals he wants that. Only... I've been biting my toungue as from the 1st date everything has been split down the middle. Sure, on a 1st date guys don't know if it will work out so why bother with dinner etc, go in rounds for drinks. But we've been for meals, theatre etc and everything is split. We went for breakfast and it was like $5 each and he still split the bill at the till. We both really like each other, seems a shame to rock the boat with confrontation about bill splitting. I can pay my way... but something deep down feels put out and just wants the gesture or to be 'treated' once. Once would do. I don't know why? How do I articulate this without actually saying that... as I will come across as needy/controlling/demanding. Perhaps I am in this thread, not sure. Anyone resonate with this?? All opinions appreciated. Edited February 3, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Add thread link
Treasa Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 He really isn't putting much effort into this. And to change plans a few times and make you wait is rude. Plus, yes, he seems cheap. Start looking elsewhere. 10
Eivuwan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Y not just be honest and say that you prefer taking turns with treating each other instead of splitting everything? When I was inexperienced in dating, I told my current bf that I wanted to split the bills and he just told me that he preferred another method.
GoreSP Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I don't know if he is a penny pincher...but seeing as you are comparing how much you both spend on the same date...it kind of looks like you are. 2
Elias33 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Ugh, you are in for a tough ride if you are to continue with this one. Oh boy.... This is as good as it gets. That is my take on it. Good luck. 1
mammasita Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 He doesn't sound like much of a gentleman....and nevermind chivalry. I'm pretty self sufficient myself and am always more than prepared to pay my own way....BUT a man that picks up the tab on a date is definitely a keeper. What do you see in this guy? 2
PegNosePete Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 - We ordered some food and he says 'ill get it as you got the tickets the other night' The food was $12 each and the tickets were $20 - later we got a cab to his and I wasn't sure how much it would be and didnt have any cash to offer so I said I'd grab some beers. The cab ended up $6 and he put some candy in the basket too so I ended up paying over $11 for the stuff Is he a penny pincher? To be honest, from this it sounds like you are the penny pincher. If I am seeing someone then I am quite relaxed about this kind of stuff. I buy this time, you buy next time, I don't really care if there's a $5 difference. It's not about exact values being equal, it's about both making the effort to chip in... and to be honest maths is hard, it's just too much effort to split every bill. Sometimes you're a few $ ahead, sometimes a few $ behind. In the long run it probably all balances out. - We were supposed to go for a country drive a day later... He text on the day to say 'I have some stuff to do, ill be in touch when I'm ready' so I asked for an estimate and he said 11-2pm. I got ready and he then at 2pm said he was going to the gym so would be ready for 3.30pm. He text at 3pm to say lets grab some food at a bar down town. Not sure what happened to the country drive! This on the other hand... WTF! Totally unacceptable behaviour from him. Giving such a large time range is not on, he should say "pick you up at 12" or whatever. And then he knew you were waiting from 11-2 and not only didn't give a more specific slot when he knew, but waited right til the end of the slot, and suddenly decided he'd rather to go the gym??? Wow what a blow-off. If someone did that to me I would tell them where to stick their country drive. 4
salparadise Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) You said the tickets were $20 but you didn't say if that was each or both. Then you said that the food was $12 each. So did he consider $24 to be adequate to balance out $40 or $20. Are you saying you paid more, he paid more, or did everything come out approximately equal? I am a guy. I think the best solution is to take turns picking up expenses so that there is approximate parity and not nitpick small differences. I find it awfully tacky to sit in a restaurant figuring up the split and counting out money, or to ask the waiter to split the bill split between two cards. I really appreciate it when a woman willing chips in, but I never ask or even indicate that it's an expectation. I try to make sure that I'm the one picking up the more expensive tabs, always paying more than half. If it comes out in the 60/40 or 70/30 range overall then I'm good. The only woman I dated recently that did not insist on contributing happened to be the wealthiest by a factor of ten. She clearly had some kind of disconnect when it came to money matters. She would contribute $10k a year to things like the symphony orchestra, and then stiff the poor dude who she called to shuttle her kayaks. I basically dumped her over that crap, although I never really told her why. Anyway, if I were you, I'd have a conversation if everything is looking really good except him being too finicky about splitting checks since you're apparently finding significant fault in this regard. But if this is just one of many issues you're not happy about then I'd just end it and not bother hashing out the details. PS: What he did on that day he kept putting you off, basically waisting most of your day and then telling you to wait again while he goest to the gym... extremely inconsiderate and self-focused. I think you should've told him to put it where the sun don't shine when he said he was going to the gym. I think he sounds self-focused, deficient in key areas of how he perceives the world around him. Edited February 3, 2014 by salparadise
Author supercallafraj Posted February 3, 2014 Author Posted February 3, 2014 Thanks for all the comments so far- appreciate it! Yea I would not consider myself a penny pincher but totally see why you made that point. I'm quoting stuff/ noting it because this has stemmed right back from the first date. I was in a horrendous relationship previously and he ended up being selfish and an emotional abuser- I don't want to end up with the same type of person and I feel how ppl are with money can indicate a level of selfishness. If he'd just paid for one date I'd totally drop this- happy to pay for whatever and I can be really generous. Just on my guard at the mo. But... I also don't want my past experience to ruin a future one. That's why I'm posting this, to ensure that I'm not over thinking everything and the guy nwess a chance. To reiterate from the previous thread, he only left home like a year ago and is 31, has never had a serious relationship and has (I recently uncovered) serious self esteem issues in the bedroom dept. Are these linked or am I looking for an excuse to forgive him?
MidwestUSA Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 You can't go thru a relationship 'counting' as you've been doing (I paid 20, he paid 12) that'll drive you nuts. Him leaving you hanging for three hours and then going to the gym? He's not showing respect for your time, and this could be related to the fact he's never had to 'share' time with anyone. Just left home a year ago? Yikes. But......you may as well get to the bedroom department. Let's figure out which issue here is bugging you the most. Spill it! 3
Author supercallafraj Posted February 3, 2014 Author Posted February 3, 2014 Ok, sure. I know that this is not bothering me as much... My main concern is entering another relationship where I am not valued or respected. Basically the guy has performance anxieties. He's never been able to 'finish' with a girl. I haven't delved any deeper than that. He's considering therapy which I think he perhaps should have done a decade ago!
MidwestUSA Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Ok, sure. I know that this is not bothering me as much... My main concern is entering another relationship where I am not valued or respected. Basically the guy has performance anxieties. He's never been able to 'finish' with a girl. I haven't delved any deeper than that. He's considering therapy which I think he perhaps should have done a decade ago! Do you think this could be simply due to not having been in serious relationships (ie handling things solo for a long time?) Do you know if he's had a lot of casual partners? At least he's talking about it. Does he just seem sort of 'dense' about the money issue? I had a guy who was like that, but was downright malicious about it (counting how many beers of the six pack I had, etc.), and demanding that I not miss my turn at paying.
mammasita Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 OP, I dont think you should waste your time on someone who needs "fixing" no matter how many good qualities you think you see in him. You can't fix him. 2
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Yea I would not consider myself a penny pincher but totally see why you made that point. I'm quoting stuff/ noting it because this has stemmed right back from the first date. I was in a horrendous relationship previously and he ended up being selfish and an emotional abuser- I don't want to end up with the same type of person and I feel how ppl are with money can indicate a level of selfishness. If he'd just paid for one date I'd totally drop this- happy to pay for whatever and I can be really generous. Just on my guard at the mo. But... I also don't want my past experience to ruin a future one. That's why I'm posting this, to ensure that I'm not over thinking everything and the guy nwess a chance. To reiterate from the previous thread, he only left home like a year ago and is 31, has never had a serious relationship and has (I recently uncovered) serious self esteem issues in the bedroom dept. Are these linked or am I looking for an excuse to forgive him? This is totally wrong headed. Most guys feel obligated to pay, so they do. It has nothing to do with being selfish or generous. You are mentally still in your last relationship. It's time to move on and let it go. Forget the money and focus on the self esteem issues. If you focus on the superficial crap you will never get a good idea of who this guy is inside. People with self esteem issues tend to be self centered more often. 1
Frank2thepoint Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 We were supposed to go for a country drive a day later... He text on the day to say 'I have some stuff to do, ill be in touch when I'm ready' so I asked for an estimate and he said 11-2pm. I got ready and he then at 2pm said he was going to the gym so would be ready for 3.30pm. He text at 3pm to say lets grab some food at a bar down town. Not sure what happened to the country drive! The real issue is not that he isn't paying for a date or covering the expenses. It's that he doesn't respect you. Making you wait and then overlooking the country drive is a slap in the face. The covering of a date is just the tip of the iceberg concerning what he thinks of you. I read your other thread, and I really believe he is just blowing hot air when he claims he tells all his friends and family about you. You shouldn't stand for someone that disregards you, making you wait. 1
Iguanna Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I won't comment on the dating and money issue cause the opinions can vary due to differences in all people, but I will say one thing for you to think: you are trying to make him be the way you like him to be. He is like t his, he likes to pay for his own half and the girl to pay for her own half. Why haven't you brought this up in these 9 dates, and in the contrary at the start you showed it was ok for him to do this and now suddenly after 9 dates he has to change 180 degrees and do what you like him to do? You should have spoken up at the start, or at least speak up now, tell him you don't like it that he has never offered to treat you something, and see how he reacts. Maybe he has some valid points you haven't thought about. Either way, you will COMMUNICATE with him rather than asking strangers what to do and then playing games with him just to avoid the hard thing: being truthful and say what bothers you. For the part that he changed your plans without asking you I don't like it either. Again, speak up. Communicate. This is how long term relationships are built.
carhill Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 OP, gotta say my sense of this is real similar to past experiences where the ladies had no substantive interest in me but did, for awhile, enjoy that I liked them. It's not so much the precise 'whats' but the overall tone of things, with the tone being 'meh'. I don't know if that qualifies as a 'reason' specifically but it was on my mind.
nescafe1982 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Ok, sure. I know that this is not bothering me as much... My main concern is entering another relationship where I am not valued or respected. Okay stop right there. I don';t think this is about money at all. The dude kept you waiting on him so he could go to the gym. He cancelled a date with no notice or even an acknowledgement. Sure, you went for food and beers later. But that he cancelled the first date with no acknowledgment communicates that he is not the kind of guy who will respect your time. He is not in a place to value you. Move on. This one has issues to sort through... and until he does he's not really available to you. 2
kaylan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) He really isn't putting much effort into this. And to change plans a few times and make you wait is rude. Plus, yes, he seems cheap. Start looking elsewhere. Agree. The dude isnt putting in effort at all. I would be so impressed by a woman like you who puts thought and effort into us going out. I would have definitely taken you out a few times, all expenses paid, as a thank you. The dude needs to take some initiative. That all being said, I do agree with a couple others when they say that you do seem to be hawk-eyeing expenses a little too much too. Edited February 3, 2014 by kaylan 1
Els Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I'd be much more concerned about the flaking if I were you. 1
Author supercallafraj Posted February 3, 2014 Author Posted February 3, 2014 Again, thank you for all your thoughts... I'm taking it on board. This might seem even more ridiculous than even my last posts... but given that ppl have pointed out stuff that I didn't even think about, I felt it might be beneficial to paste the communication over this country drive. I think it's actually me with communication issues? - We had discussed going for the drive on Saturday. - I text him Saturday night to say that I had forgotten my hiking boots so possibly not best going 'walking' anywhere, but I was still up for doing 'something'. - he replied the next morning saying 'ok cool, I've got a list of mundane tasks so will let you know when I'm ready... and the rest you know. Am I clutching at straws here, or do I perhaps need to rethink this? I totally agree with the comments on me being honest and communicating how I feel, but I'm just so terrified to as I can't articulate it. I don't want to embarrass him and also look demanding. Perhaps I drop the money issue and focus on the actions. I.e I should have stood up for myself yesterday and said I needed a definite time or I didn't want to waste my day? Something like that in future
FitChick Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Sounds very self-centered. Is he a momma's boy or only child?
Treasa Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Ok, sure. I know that this is not bothering me as much... My main concern is entering another relationship where I am not valued or respected. Basically the guy has performance anxieties. He's never been able to 'finish' with a girl. I haven't delved any deeper than that. He's considering therapy which I think he perhaps should have done a decade ago! Uh, I dated a guy exactly like this. Except that he's 34 and I think he still lives with his mom. He could NEVER finish with anyone, and I dated him for six years. He was also cheap, and he was also wishy washy. I'd say get out of this. Your situation sounds too familiar and scary to me. 1
Elias33 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Again, thank you for all your thoughts... I'm taking it on board. This might seem even more ridiculous than even my last posts... but given that ppl have pointed out stuff that I didn't even think about, I felt it might be beneficial to paste the communication over this country drive. I think it's actually me with communication issues? - We had discussed going for the drive on Saturday. - I text him Saturday night to say that I had forgotten my hiking boots so possibly not best going 'walking' anywhere, but I was still up for doing 'something'. - he replied the next morning saying 'ok cool, I've got a list of mundane tasks so will let you know when I'm ready... and the rest you know. Am I clutching at straws here, or do I perhaps need to rethink this? I totally agree with the comments on me being honest and communicating how I feel, but I'm just so terrified to as I can't articulate it. I don't want to embarrass him and also look demanding. Perhaps I drop the money issue and focus on the actions. I.e I should have stood up for myself yesterday and said I needed a definite time or I didn't want to waste my day? Something like that in future Don't question yourself. It's pretty much his behavior that is questionable. I would've come to the same conclusions. Him letting you wait and canceling the way he does, you can expect more of the same. This guy is a fixer upper. Talking about it will already start the first counseling session, so basically: talk or walk. 1
Author supercallafraj Posted February 3, 2014 Author Posted February 3, 2014 Interesting. Yea he 'has' to drive home (hour and twenty journey) every 3 weeks to see his mom. She also did everything for him whilst he lived there. This is totally over analysing but I did think about linking the erection dysfunction to a sort of Oedipal explanation. Never being able to form a real relationship as hasn't truly let go of the apron strings? Maybe. But yes, not my problem to solve.
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