I'm thinking about going back to christianity, but I have a problem.

[M30USA]

Buddhism might contain certain shreds of philosophical truths, but a wise man once said, "All truths are God's truths."

 

The issue isn't philosophy, but rather who will save you from the fundamental predicament of the human experience: the fact that you are hopelessly sinful before an infinitely holy God who will not let sin go unpunished. There is no solution except for Jesus. As scripture says, "There is no other name under heaven given unto men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Edited February 3, 2014 by M30USA

[KathyM]

The two religions are not compatible. Christianity teaches reliance and trust in God. Buddism teaches reliance only on oneself. Just to name one major difference.

[mukkrakker]

There is no 'God' in Buddhism, so there wouldn't be a case of 'putting other Gods before me'.

 

I think you're very well aware that "#1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is a Christian tenant… (By the way, I don't mind, but the god (of the christians) would [allegedly])

 

Seeing as Pope Frank is letting Atheists and Gays in to heaven these days, I'm sure he'll have no problem with Buddhists.

 

Why not believe in all the religions? Then your covered for any eventuality.

You can be multi-enlightened.

[TaraMaiden]

Buddhism might contain certain shreds of philosophical truths, but a wise man once said, "All truths are God's truths."

 

The issue isn't philosophy, but rather who will save you from the fundamental predicament of the human experience: the fact that you are hopelessly sinful before an infinitely holy God who will not let sin go unpunished. There is no solution except for Jesus. As scripture says, "There is no other name under heaven given unto men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

 

Yeah, right.

 

Like I said, mukkrakker, Buddhism takes it all within and makes YOU do the work, instead of enabling you to foist it out and leave it all in the supposed hands of something 'out there'....

 

If you want to PM me for more logical and sensible discussion, feel free. No obligation, whatever you want.

Otherwise, I'll leave this thread, because it's turning into a point-scoring, proselytising 'my religion is better than yours' soapbox.

[mukkrakker]

'my religion is better than yours' soapbox.

 

Actually I'm not religious, it's all crap.

 

I was just pointing out the fallacy of "you shall have no other god"

 

Maybe I should have used some smilies...

[TaraMaiden]

Actually I'm not religious, it's all crap.

 

I was just pointing out the fallacy of "you shall have no other god"

 

Maybe I should have used some smilies...

 

If I may say so, you need to know a religion and its tenets before being able to dismiss it as 'all crap'.

 

If you have a sound basis for scooping all religions - including Buddhism - together, and calling them all crap, that's fine. If you're just being dismissive because you can't be bothered, and in fact you're not even close to knowing what you're talking about - that's just a bit ignorant, don't you think?

With respect, I honestly thought you were a little deeper than that.

[mukkrakker]

I honestly thought you were a little deeper than that.

 

Don't UN-like me!!!

 

I'm not a believer in the supernatural.

Everything can be explained by nature (i.e the natural world, the real world we live in), no need for stories.

The pursuit of a fuller understanding of nature, is, imho, the ultimate spiritual experience.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh goodness, we need a new thread....

There is little, if anything, in Buddhism, which is 'supernatural'

Anything 'supernatural' is taken to be allegorical also.

 

I have to stop derailing this.

I may start a new thread in the Religion & Spirituality section.

 

If M30USA can do it....

 

And i would never 'un-like' you for something of this nature.....

I'm not that shallow.....

[Robert Z]

And i would never 'un-like' you for something of this nature.....

I'm not that shallow.....

 

 

And it wouldn't be very Christian of you.

[mukkrakker]

There is little, if anything, in Buddhism, which is 'supernatural' - anything 'supernatural' is taken to be allegorical also.

 

I should have been more clear in my derision!

I throw myself at your feet. xoxo.

[TaraMaiden]

I should bloody well think so.

 

[TaraMaiden]

New thread.

 

Come and be abused there....

 

I'm done here!

[bostonterrier]

To be honest the main reason I want to go back to Christianity is the fear of hell, sometimes I think it was created to scare people and control, but what if it's not?

[TaraMaiden]

hell and heaven are right here, right now.

 

There was once a powerful samurai warrior in Japan, he was a leader of men and very faithful to his country. He would think nothing of giving his own life if it meant helping his emperor or country.

 

This warrior was used to battle and he had killed many men and so he was beginning to wonder if there was a heaven and a hell and if so how could he get to heaven and stay clear of hell.

 

He was concerned that he may not be allowed into heaven due to the fact that he had killed so many men this lifetime.

 

He had heard of the famous Zen master Hakuin and was told he could show him how to get to heaven. He decided to go and meet him and traveled long and far to find him.

 

After many days of gruesome travel over mountains and rough terrain he finally found the master. The warrior was doubtful when he met master Hakuin, he looked just like a simple peasant and the warrior really wondered if this simple man could authentically answer his question.

 

After all this travel it would be pointless to go back without asking the question and so the strong warrior asked Hakuin if indeed there was a heaven and a hell, and if so how could he get to heaven and avoid hell?

 

Master Hakuin being a very wise man, answered the question in a way the warrior would never forget.

 

Master Hakuin replied, "who are you?" to which the warrior replied, I am the chief samurai warrior of Japan and I work directly with the emperor, I am the leader of all samurai in Japan.

 

Hakuin laughed and said, you a warrior? You are stinking filthy, and ill-mannered too..., you are nothing but talk, swagger and boastfulness and I doubt if you could save your self never mind our emperor, don't waste my time, go!

 

At this the warrior was deeply offended and was immediately angry, he drew his sword ready to kill this peasant man in front of him, but just before he made the strike, Hakuin quietly said, "this is hell." The warrior astonished, stopped and after a pause, put his sword back in its sheath and Hakuin smiled as he said "and that - is heaven."

 

The samurai got the message, the master had shown him how his anger was his own hell and his alert consciousness was his own heaven."

 

There are countless beings on this planet now, right now, going through torment, suffering, unhappiness and distress, for a countless legion of reasons. Some self-wrought, others hapless victims.....

 

Do you honestly believe they're destined for an afterlife in Hell, if they happen to not be Christian?

[TaraMaiden]

The two religions are not compatible. Christianity teaches reliance and trust in God. Buddism teaches reliance only on oneself. Just to name one major difference.

 

There are many major differences, God being the first and critical judgement being another.

 

There are also some pretty amazing similarities, which actually serve to underpin Buddhist practice in any religion.

Hence, they are extremely compatible, if one puts aside the God question and the 'burn in hell if you don't' issue...

 

Buddhism might contain certain shreds of philosophical truths, but a wise man once said, "All truths are God's truths."

That's not wisdom, that's 'parrotage'....

[TaraMaiden]

To be honest the main reason I want to go back to Christianity is the fear of hell, sometimes I think it was created to scare people and control, but what if it's not?

 

It is, don't worry.

 

That's what most theistic religions exert. Control through fear.

Do this or we'll destroy you.

 

If this is your only issue, then I think you need to study more, and be a bit more open to other ideas.

[M30USA]

It is, don't worry.

 

That's what most theistic religions exert. Control through fear.

Do this or we'll destroy you.

 

If this is your only issue, then I think you need to study more, and be a bit more open to other ideas.

 

Your fear shouldn't be of "destruction" in hell, but rather complete separation from God and all effects of his Spirit. I can tell you that nobody in this forum, including myself, can even begin to comprehend what this entails. Things in your life which you don't even THINK are the result of God's grace...will be gone. Think long and hard. You should fear this even more than physical flames of hell.

[TaraMaiden]

Yeah, but it doesn't last for ever. Fear is transitory, and just like any ordeal, it will end.

[Philosoraptor]

I was raised Christian. I went to church and found what the book said was oftentimes not what was acted out by the members there. So much bickering and gossip during and after the service... like people were just there to say they were there. People acting like they were better than others because they went to church, and spreading rumors and insulting others while in the confines of the church. It may not be that way everywhere, but all the people I know that spout the word of God are just not very nice to others. Between the gossip and rude comments it's hard to believe they understood anything that Christ taught.

 

On the other hand during my study of Buddhism I noticed a lot of similarities between Christ's actions and the lessons of Buddhism. Both were peaceful, had no ill will, and offered nothing but kindness in the face of adversity. I talked to a friend of mine, the biggest bible thumper I knew, about reading about Buddhism. She said point blank the devil had caught me, that it was evil, and that if I didn't change I was going to hell. It was the craziest thing I've ever heard.

 

Personally I believe that the study of Buddhism would help many Christians become more in line with what Christ taught.

[TaraMaiden]

On behalf of Buddhism, thank you Philo.....

 

[TaraMaiden]

I can tell you that nobody in this forum, including myself, can even begin to comprehend what this entails.

 

So in actual fact, you're explaining that whatever he fears is unknown... which means that the level of fear is irrational, because it's an undefinable thing. And nobody has ever 'come back' to explain it....so it's actually an hypothesis...

 

so that's that then, Bostonterrier....

Your fear, it would seem, is irrational because what you fear is unknown, undefinable and uncertain of actually existing at all.

[M30USA]

Yeah, but it doesn't last for ever. Fear is transitory, and just like any ordeal, it will end.

 

Taramaiden says that hell, if it even exists, is temporary because fear is temporary.

 

Jesus Christ says: “Then they [the wicked] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46 NIV)

 

Whose claim should we believe?

[TaraMaiden]

Mine, because one, I can't honestly believe that God would punish people for eternity when some humans are able to forgive transgressors against themselves within a lifetime,

 

and two, because there isn't anything on this planet, or anywhere else for that matter that can be described as eternal and unchanging, or intransitory and permanent.

 

Even the pyramids are crumbling.

And they're slightly older than I am, but better preserved.

[BC1980]

To be honest the main reason I want to go back to Christianity is the fear of hell, sometimes I think it was created to scare people and control, but what if it's not?

 

You have hit on something valid. I'm a Christian, but I've definitely wondered if heaven and hell are just constructs. Of course, one could never prove the existence of either. I wouldn't go back to Christianity for fear of going to hell though that fear has certainly been used to keep followers in line. When it comes down to it, we have to consider if anything supernatural is simply a human construct to explain the unexplainable. I'm thinking along the lines of mental illness or the formation of the universe, anything unexplainable that science could not reason out years ago.

 

Is there anything else about Christianity that is appealing to you besides the threat of going to hell? It seems you would need more on which to base a change in religion.

[happydate]

THis is gobbledygook, and frankly doesn't address my post to you at all;.

Which just tells me you don't know how to answer, because you know nothing about Buddhism.

 

That's not 'growth in spirituality', that's just ignorance. (small 'i').

 

A true spiritual teacher empowers students to be more than they can be.

 

Does this statement empower me to become more than I am or just belittling me to be less than who I am?

 

Blessings.

Edited February 9, 2014 by happydate