Long: Why am I only wanted as a last resort?

[Pompom]

Please forgive the lengthiness, when I'm upset I get wordy. My mother compares my public speaking/writing to Hitler's. The more serious, the more passionate. Thanks, mom. Really.

 

It's really starting to crush my spirits because I'm 30, never had a boyfriend, never been seriously pursued by those who can do “better” (longer hair, thinner, even if a horrible person or a bimbo), and I am longing to find one to marry and start a family with but not for shallow reasons but for true, deep, attraction and love, a soulmate if you will. I could have had many, but as an introvert who needs deep bonding in order to stand anyone's breath in my air, I could never "settle" for someone who's just "good to me". It really hurts me to think that I may have to settle for a relationship where we are each-other's consolation prize, a last ditch attempt to have kids or not die alone. I know very quickly when I'm not (going to be) interested, and giving it a try has so far only crushed me more and hurt a few good men who simply didn't kindle me.

 

Then there's the hurtful and crushing advice a guy I dated and who then bestfriend-zoned me, gave me. It's as pathetic and glorifying fakeness as his relationship (things happened): "Do what ultra-orthodox Jews do. Date a nice man who treats you right and as you live with him, you may grow to love and feel attracted to him". That is exactly why he cheats on her. Self-deceit never quite cuts it

To someone like me, that is like telling me to let myself be raped daily because eventually I may grow numb to it or even fool myself into believing I like it. I haven't survived a so far very difficult life to waste it now on a sweet illusion "in hopes of" the real thing.

Please don't tell me my rape comparison is offensive to real rape victims; been there and to an introvert like me being stuck with a person expecting affection when I don't feel much for them, is torture. I love people. But I need interaction to either be brief, or meaningful/intimate. My bubble has very limited space but I'm always loyal and loving to the ones I let in.

 

As for dating: can't stand that boring guy who wants to hear all about me because there's nothing to chat about him, prefers to walk slightly hunched, basically not a man eager to leave the sidelines. One who will say I'm right when I'm not. I keep attracting those. Why?? I need a man with confidence, a firm handshake, speaking frankly, loud and clear, and the wish to be my equal, not my dog (also no jerk type!). I think I may be looking for a father figure. Meh. The same when I'm not physically attracted. I'm sorry but when he's short, bald, baby-faced, much older, or overweight, I can't. Tried, doesn't work. Even when I think they're great-looking in spite of all that, I can't. But guess what types love me.

 

I don't have ridiculous standards. Tall, full hair, full teeth, not fat, not boney. I don't look at pics of “hunks” wishing that mine should be like that. I don't need him to have anything fancy or be anyone. Must accept me as I am, plus pets, that is all. I'm not unapproachable. I'm not stuck-up or gloomy. Israel is a somewhat rude country and apparently I'm not. Everyone here squeals what a sweetie and how nice and adorable I am, "not like all those Israeli girls" which I hate as I am Israeli. But then, I feel like men just love a simple woman who can be bent into any shape.

Sorry I'm complex, smart, opinionated, educated, creative, cat lady, a geek, outspoken, well-traveled, and God forbid I can open my own jars and fight my own battles and never upload pictures of nail art or roses on Facebook. I like to think that these things make me awesome. So do my single girlfriends. Oh wait.

Sometimes I wonder if it really isn't my big butt (not Donna Simpson-big, more like Adele-big) or my cats whom nobody knows about before he decides he doesn't want me, but rather that I may come across as too strong and independent as to need a man. I really don't need one, I have always had to be my own friend and carer. I WANT a man and all that involves, but yeah, he has nothing practical to keep me with because I'd rather be poor and talk to myself than be in a miserable relationship. But I can't suddenly not be all those things I am, and don't want to. I've tried being normal, but it ended in my questioning the meaning of life. So I tried aiming for geeks, except I seem to be the only geek here who also likes the gym and the razor and the outdoors.

 

Now, I know inner values are crucial. Except, I can't have passion (emotional or physical) with you when you're unattractive/uninteresting to me. Usually the 2 come in pairs with the ones I meet. I need sparks, I need him to make me forget where I am. I'd hate to be more assertive or better-looking than my man. I can't be a lion dating a sheep. Either I'm the sheep or we're both lions. I want to be tamed, feel vulnerable, stop having to be so strong all the time, but a meek or insecure or submissive guy would only need me to be even stronger. I've grown up with no cultural, religious, racial, ethnic, or even gender identity. I mean, I'm a straight female but this has never been relevant. Owned toy tanks, had fist fights. Ever-friendzoned when I was younger. Never occurred to anyone I even had a vagina, nobody even tried to exploit me. Except, same old pattern, way older or illegal-needing-to-marry-citizen or extremely bad-looking guys in the street. I'm a lot more feminine now, just there is still the tomboy and I fail at hiding him. Classy but no high heels.

 

The first couple of times, I thought it was coincidence that it was never the handsome, confident men my own age (give or take 6 years) who wanted me for more than sex or who didn't lose interest after the first date. But then, after a huge positive change in my confidence and appearance, 2 years of proactive online dating, and a year attending huge singles parties with speed dates, this pattern hasn't changed.

Everyone, be it family, friends, dates both attractive and unattractive, and even people in the street constantly tell me how beautiful and attractive I am. I'm not one to fish for compliments or “strut my stuff”. People who know me, praise my personality, my loyalty, honesty, open mind, humor, creativity, confidence, brains, etc. and call me fascinating in a good way. I've never known anyone to call me shallow, snobbish, judgmental, boring or otherwise less-than-desirable for personality, while everybody also knows I'm far from perfect. I don't do masks. Most people appreciate my personality right away. I don't dance at parties, hate loud crowded places, but so what.

 

Except, my personality doesn't even get the chance to either shine, or appall. I never get that far with anyone I care to. Last night's speed dating party really crushed me. There were like 100 people there. And while there were many of those I'm not attracted to, they made up about 40% of the male attendees. Now, guess who were the only ones NOT skipping me during the speed date rotations? The short, the bald, the fat, and those who disregarded the upper age limit for participants. Everybody who could go for “better” than me by mainstream standards skirted my table. Desperate cases jealously hogged me by ignoring the bell. When one too many desperates with limp handshakes and “please let this be easy”-smiles offered to alcoholize me and then give me a ride home, I left. Goodlooking or at least confident men have sex with me and move on.

I am not oozing self-hate or insecurity. I'm an optimist convinced of my worth so long as nobody goes out of his way to crush my hopes to meet my soulmate before my uterus expires. I have never had anyone my whole life, no high school romance, no college adventures, and I think only few people can imagine the pain of that, and of the prognosis considering what I could have had so far was without exception the kind of man where your mother would hug you, and start her sentence with “At least he..”. I don't want an “At least he”, ever. I also don't want everything I'm proud to be, to be reduced to “At least she” either. Being (with) an “At least” is awful.

All I basically want, is what every woman wants. A man she personally finds both attractive and charming, who sweeps her off her feet, and who doesn't just settle for her, but because whoever she is or whatever she looks like, she is perfect to him (minus this or that). And not “settle for” the man who can't “do better”.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I'm not doing the “just lose weight” BS because it doesn't seem relevant, and also, medically, there doesn't seem to be a solution. Don't care either. I have tried asking men of (my) interest as to why they lost interest in me but that's never something a man would engage in, is it? My female friends give me the loathed, full-of-crap “Because men suck and good ones are rare, you rock” (so rare that all around me women have men, only I don't? Am I too great for 99% of all men? Don't think so). What makes me so undesirable to men “who can afford standards” (I hate the phrase, but it's 4 am)? What's wrong with me that isn't with every other goodlooking, intelligent woman? How can I even find out? I can't ask a shrink because when I talk about it I'm more negative from talking and thinking about it, than when I'm actually dating and going out and stuff, so the impression would be contaminated. Tried “getting out more”, I'm invisible, even when I'm tanning my half-naked self at the pool, nobody looks my way. It really hurts. A lot.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Pompom

[Grumpybutfun]

If that is generalizing for brevity's sake, have you considered that you talk so much when you meet men that they get turned off unless they are just desperate and would put up with anyone? Just taking a stab in the dark but your soliloquy made me want a beer, a tall beer and some quiet. Not trying to be harsh, but if how you talk in real life like you wrote this, you need to learn to pull back and listen instead of going full on steamroller.

Good luck,

G

[gaius]

As revolting as you're probably going to find this Pom I've always found you to be one of the smartest female posters here. Maybe tied for first with one other person. And there's no shortage of women here who have PhD's, doctorates, law degrees and other forms of education that require a high amount of intellect. If you're looking for a guy who can make you feel dominated and submissive, kind of daughter like, they're going to be few and far between. You're smarter than 99% of people out there. Of course most are going to bend to be submissive toward you. Or just not pay you much attention all together.

 

As far as the guys who have a lot of options, they want a woman who's going to make them feel smarter, not be competition. Or even outshine them. The smartest women always suffer the most in dating. There is really no good advice to give you for your problem.

[pickflicker]

Pompom, I didn't read all of this but got the general gist. Do you let the guy lead when you're dating? As in, let him initiate contact, let him choose the first few dates, pay, etc etc?

[BlametheIrish]

You mentioned your weight at some point in your post. If you're considered fat by societies standards that can turn off a lot of conventionally good looking men, no matter how great of a personality you have.

 

Have you ever considered OLD?

[Noproblem]

I understand what you are saying

 

I can't I just can't be with someone who I don't find attractive or charming like you said

I guess you struggle from many issues. Like too much romance novels when you were a teenager. Yes, victims of such novels will always look for that man that will sweep them off the floor, well since i haven't find him yet, I can't say he does exist, but I can't say I'm looking for him anyway!

 

You might find the one, if you believed in unconditional love

 

Loving without rules and standards.. Love doesn't come if you say I'll do that or he'll do that. Love is blind, this is the the plain truth.

 

Give others chances and you might find what I am saying is true. I know I won't give other chances because I'm stubborn but maybe you will.

Read this novel: Anyone but you!

It's romance novel, but also talks about the unconditional love. Funny and beautiful.

I hope you find the one, just stop looking so hard. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be

[Pompom]

If that is generalizing for brevity's sake, have you considered that you talk so much when you meet men that they get turned off unless they are just desperate and would put up with anyone? Just taking a stab in the dark but your soliloquy made me want a beer, a tall beer and some quiet. Not trying to be harsh, but if how you talk in real life like you wrote this, you need to learn to pull back and listen instead of going full on steamroller.

Good luck,

G

As I've said in the very beginning, no, I do not always talk so much. I actually hate all the "tell me about yourself" crap on a date because I don't care half as much about what I already know, as they do. I said twice I'm an introvert so obviously I'm more sitting around silently than talking.

If you'd read anything rather than just decide to be sarcastic and snide, you'd know I don't even get a chance to put anyone off with personality or talking too much, because I am skirted before first interaction.

 

As revolting as you're probably going to find this Pom I've always found you to be one of the smartest female posters here. Maybe tied for first with one other person. And there's no shortage of women here who have PhD's, doctorates, law degrees and other forms of education that require a high amount of intellect. If you're looking for a guy who can make you feel dominated and submissive, kind of daughter like, they're going to be few and far between. You're smarter than 99% of people out there. Of course most are going to bend to be submissive toward you. Or just not pay you much attention all together.

 

As far as the guys who have a lot of options, they want a woman who's going to make them feel smarter, not be competition. Or even outshine them. The smartest women always suffer the most in dating. There is really no good advice to give you for your problem.

Wow. Thanks Yeah I've feared men might be looking for the easy-to-impress and yeah, I admit that's not me (doesn't mean I don't adore you.. guys calm down, I've deeply adored a total failure who shares a bed with his brother at his mom's and who thinks lesbianism can be cured). I've considered appearing less-than-I-am but I never really put it to a test because I feel that being the real me is the best way to find one to accept and stay with that real me. Plus, I feel like it might ooze a lack of confidence, and "no one likes that" (lies). Maybe it is a good idea to put on a mask and drop it once he got trapped in my (ch)arms? I don't believe in that but seems to work great for most.

Plus, I have not finished my university/college degrees and can't seem to find a decent job if any, so hey. Wanna date down? Date me.

 

Pompom, I didn't read all of this but got the general gist. Do you let the guy lead when you're dating? As in, let him initiate contact, let him choose the first few dates, pay, etc etc?

I usually do let them initiate, except on dating sites when I like him and guess I should take the initiative so he even knows I'm game, and as for choosing the first date, you mean location? I normally do let them, except when they want the first date to be at one of our homes because that makes it way too easy to try a "f*ck and run", or when he expects I travel really far. If he's too lazy to at least meet me half-way, well nope. So if either suggestion is made, I may or may not ask for a public place like cinema, coffee shop, mall etc. within a reasonable distance of both of us. I gladly let him pay, but I'll just as gladly go Dutch.

 

You mentioned your weight at some point in your post. If you're considered fat by societies standards that can turn off a lot of conventionally good looking men, no matter how great of a personality you have.

 

Have you ever considered OLD?

OLD as in online dating? Wasting money on that for 2 years and counting. Except, the men there are so frustrating, wasting my time and hopes with their interest until they see me because they didn't look closely enough on my pictures. They think I have a slim face so I must be slim all over, even when I post pictures where it's clear from my upper arms or fingers that I'm not. I don't have any decent full-body pics up. I either look a lot fatter than I am, or a lot thinner, neither being good impressions. I never look on pictures as I do in mirrors. Where I look amazing.

I'm not that fat, actually Israel seems to put the threshold for fat a lot higher than where I'm now. They call me "full" and lots seem to like it. And I mean, if a guy who could "do better" nags me for sex over a longer period, I guess it's not so bad. I'm thick rather than fat actually. No cankles, double chin, or belly flap.

 

I understand what you are saying

 

I can't I just can't be with someone who I don't find attractive or charming like you said

I guess you struggle from many issues. Like too much romance novels when you were a teenager. Yes, victims of such novels will always look for that man that will sweep them off the floor, well since i haven't find him yet, I can't say he does exist, but I can't say I'm looking for him anyway!

 

You might find the one, if you believed in unconditional love

 

Loving without rules and standards.. Love doesn't come if you say I'll do that or he'll do that. Love is blind, this is the the plain truth.

 

Give others chances and you might find what I am saying is true. I know I won't give other chances because I'm stubborn but maybe you will.

Read this novel: Anyone but you!

It's romance novel, but also talks about the unconditional love. Funny and beautiful.

I hope you find the one, just stop looking so hard. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be

I never had anything to do with romance novels honestly. I just can't connect with people unless there's an emotional connection, and when it comes to sexual relationships, physical attraction as well. Can't even deal with the cleaning lady around unless she's also my close friend.

 

Actually love is not blind at all when it comes to love that includes sex. An asexual or platonic relationship/love can be blind, but I cannot make myself feel sexually/physically into someone whose physique is just repulsive to me. It's not a choice thing. I believe in unconditional love as in, you're into and you know a person well and you still want to be with them, but when you're repulsed, you're repulsed and you can't expect someone to try and get over that. That's where my "get raped till you like it" example comes in. I can't demand that from a man either. But the same is true for personality not apealing to me. I can't control that, hardly anyone can. A gay guy can't feel into a woman just because he adores her as a person and it'd make her so happy and they would make such a great match otherwise. He can force himself, fool himself, but he'll still be miserable.

 

If love were blind, nobody would be alone. Nobody would be advised to dress like that, work out, wear makeup, diet, or do anything else about their appearance to impact their odds. There wouldn't even be a divide between homo- and heterosexuality. It never works that way unless you're pansexual perhaps.

 

So I can't give a chance to someone who repulses or disinterests me to a degree where I'm thinking "next". Repulsion includes not feeling into the thought of getting physical with them. Meaningless sex can be fun, but remains meaningless without exception as far as I'm concerned. I'm not looking for prince charming, I'm looking for someone I don't have to force myself to like. It's not just about appearance. I cannot take a man and love him unconditionally as in, if he asks me to dump my pets in the streets sure, I love him unconditionally, so I'll do it, right? He abuses me but I love him unconditionally so I love the beatings, right? No, it must be a good match and changing who I am or being dishonest with myself about how I feel about a person, is a horrible premise. I would never ask a man to change to my liking, and I would not accept such a request. I would end the "relationship" and give both of us a shot of something more real.

[Mrlonelyone]

What Gaius said is very true regarding intellect. If you are a very smart woman and insist on the gender role stereotype that the man should be taller, smarter, richer than the woman... your going to have a hard time. A wise less smart an would listen to his smarter young woman. Might those older 6 - 12 years older men just be wise enough to see what less seasoned young fools do not?

 

That said,Your first posting could be summed up in one sentence.

 

"Any man who wants to be with me isn't good enough for me because if he wants me something is wrong with him."

 

Might it be that on some unconscious level you either fear intimacy or suffer from low self esteem? The effect of either is for you to think "Why is this man interested in me? He must be desperate, not good looking enough to do better, and I don't want him". I find it hard to believe that every man that approaches you is objectively revolting and only the ones that ignore you are objectively attractive.

[RedRobin]

As a fellow 'smartie' myself, a tomboy who cleans up nice, but who still has an attitude (ok, some would call it a chip on my shoulder.. but this isn't about me lol)

 

 

I've dated all kinds of men. Tall, shorter, a few pounds... Olympic level athletes, rich, poor, educated, uneducated...

 

 

There do seem to be a few constants with men, and I've been forced to come up with some pretty sophisticated methods to sort through them. Otherwise, you really can't judge a book by it's cover... but lots of men will be judging you by your 'cover'.. that's how they are socialized. Some would argue that's how they are wired. I've had to force myself not to make quite so many snap decisions myself... recognizing I'm just as likely to either dismiss or accept a guy for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

First, the guys who have the most options wants a woman who has it all. Why wouldn't they? Do you have it all? If not, then go about getting it all. If that means losing weight, do it. If that means learning a language, taking up piano, joining a gym... Wearing heels (I know you said you hate those...) I dunno. Lots of ways to make yourself interesting and appealing to the kinds of men you want to attract. Decide which things are non-negotiable and then modify the other things.

 

The guys you complain about who ARE attracted to you. Don't know about them either. You might be surprised. You say you are an introvert, which means guys will have to be a little persistent in order to get to know you. Maybe return the favor? Give yourself some time to get to know a guy and see if you warm up to him? I've found myself super attracted to guys I would have quickly tossed aside when I was a lot younger and more impulsive.

 

... and yes, I DO downplay my accomplishments. I don't play stupid. But I try not to make too big a show of what I know. Its sucks that we have to do that, but that's how it goes. This is something I used to find very depressing, but it occurred to me that I naturally do this in a business or professional setting. I offer what is asked for and maybe just a little bit more... then let time take care of the rest.

 

I try to give him lots of opportunities to show what they know. I don't do it here as much because I'm not trying to attract anyone here. But in real life, I do believe I know how to make a man feel admired and special... when I want to. Problem is, that still isn't good enough... because a lot of those same men want to feel admired and special by lots of women... which I won't tolerate. It is very tough to find an attractive, smart, single man with good values who doesn't feel the need or desire to play the field. Those guys get snatched up pretty quick... and stay snatched up.

 

The bold(er) ones you claim to be the most attracted to are often just fluff and posing. Very seldom that they deliver on the big words. You know this, right?

 

 

All that said, I'm not sure if I have the answer for you. A lot of smart women struggle, as Gaius said. It doesn't feel natural to have to stuff or squash who we are. You can't really blame just men for being insecure. Culture dictates that men be 'better' than the woman they are with. You claim to need that yourself. How does it bother you to be 'better' than the guy at something... as long as he is ok with it? Is it possible you can just find a balance? Where he is better at some things and you are better at other things? This is what I'm looking for.

Edited February 1, 2014 by RedRobin

[Weezy1973]

OP - the fact that you're 30 and have NEVER been in a relationship suggests that your problems likely run a lot deeper than the LoveShack mantra "how come the people I'm attracted to are never interested in me, and the people that are interested in me, I'm not attracted to."

 

You also have a history of having sex with men very early - often on the first date. If you actually are looking for husband / father material, this is a surefire way not to find it.

[antonio1149]

I don't buy the "I'm too smart and accomplished" argument. Smart, accomplished guys want someone similar. But they also want someone feminine--that doesn't mean you have to be a doormat, just don't be arrogant and a know-it-all and be soft and sweet at least a part of the time.

 

You mentioned that you don't want an overweight man, but admitted you are overweight. Not extremely, but with a "butt like Adele's." Adele is pretty chubby. I like somewhat larger women if it's well-proportioned, but I'm very fit and athletic and wouldn't date someone who looks like Adele. This might be one of your problems--unrealistic expectations on the physical side.

[Eivuwan]

After reading your post, I can't help but feel that either your expectations for people are unrealistic (and sometimes shallow) or you think too much of yourself. Obviously I cannot know what the truth is, but that is just the vibe I get. Basically, you say that personality is important, but all I have gotten is that the men who are attracted to you are not good looking enough and the good looking men that you want do not desire you.

 

There is simply too much evaluation of people and too little actually getting to know them it seems like.

[antonio1149]

You also have a history of having sex with men very early - often on the first date.

 

Unfortunately, this has the very common effect of fostering unrealistic expectations in women. They hook up with hotter guys who are out of their league, then conclude that since these hotter guys find them attractive (at least attractive enough for sex), they should be able to snag someone in that league for relationship purposes.

 

Doesn't work that way.

[Purepony]

This is too confusing even for me .. where are the commercials??

 

You might be blunt but youcome off kind of negative now I understand your probably upset and you're probably reaching that limit where you're on a time crunch.. so I don't blame you but when you meet somebody you need to be cool calm and neutral.

 

If I walked up to you you would probably scare me away and don't take that in a bad way it could be that I would feel intimidated maybe? Or I could just think and see it more as the mind f***?

[Pompom]

I'm quoting several people and potentially repeating myself, no need to read everything when my response to you is only part of all this

 

There do seem to be a few constants with men, and I've been forced to come up with some pretty sophisticated methods to sort through them. Otherwise, you really can't judge a book by it's cover... but lots of men will be judging you by your 'cover'.. that's how they are socialized. Some would argue that's how they are wired. I've had to force myself not to make quite so many snap decisions myself... recognizing I'm just as likely to either dismiss or accept a guy for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not shallow per se, I just have a type I am absolutely, with no exception, disinterested in, no matter how good the book is. It's no snap decision, it's feeling profoundly turned off and that's no way to date anyone.

 

First, the guys who have the most options wants a woman who has it all. Why wouldn't they? Do you have it all?

No, actually, one of the men I "wanted" was married for 7 years to a woman who he started dating at twice my size (which would mean... nearly Honey Booboo's mom???), and now he decided to pick a 40-year-old controlling, boring, prude (his words) over me who everyone including himself agrees is the opposite of pretty and is right to be afraid of me.

Then the one who looked great if you like the type, but he keeps dating... anorexics with random ugly tattoos and faces so gaunt and sun-damaged they look 20 years older, with the result of teen pregnancy and dating thugs running around her parents' apartment where her unemployed ass shares her sister's bed, and also, lesbians who will never truly love him. I kid you not, that is his story.

That list goes on. I don't really date up, I date whatever is decent-looking, charming, likes pets, and has a sense of humor

 

If not, then go about getting it all. If that means losing weight, do it. If that means learning a language, taking up piano, joining a gym... Wearing heels (I know you said you hate those...) I dunno. Lots of ways to make yourself interesting and appealing to the kinds of men you want to attract. Decide which things are non-negotiable and then modify the other things.

I honestly don't believe in torturing myself to be accepted. If that's what it takes, then the relationship is based on shallowness and I'll be dumped the moment another flaw pops up. I cannot lose weight, and I don't see why I should. I speak 6 languages, I have the most interesting stories to tell, I have the multidisciplinary skills in art and entertainment of a geisha. If in spite of all that I still need heels and a babe's body to get married, he'll see hookers once I stop looking like I did on our wedding day.

 

The guys you complain about who ARE attracted to you. Don't know about them either. You might be surprised. You say you are an introvert, which means guys will have to be a little persistent in order to get to know you.

And the ugly, the meek, the shy, and the old ones are. My are they persistant. And I don't think it's my looks that limit my options to those anyone would ask me WHY.

 

Maybe return the favor? Give yourself some time to get to know a guy and see if you warm up to him? I've found myself super attracted to guys I would have quickly tossed aside when I was a lot younger and more impulsive.

I do, unless he utterly repulses me by being way too far removed from my type. I can't be expected to force myself to like a type I don't just because, inner values. I can't have sex with his sense of humor when his belly flap smothers me. I also don't expect any man whose type I really ain't by a long shot, to have viagra for supper because I'm so funny and smart and talented. I'm talking about a tiny handful deal-breaking traits, not "his chin could be a bit stronger" or "I don't like high-pitched voices in men". Believe me, I am very tolerant of outer and inner flaws, but dealbreakers are dealbreakers.

 

... and yes, I DO downplay my accomplishments. I don't play stupid. But I try not to make too big a show of what I know.

I downplay them by default. I'm aware and proud of them, but I have no interest in them. Like, shut up, let's watch dumb TV and make babies, who cares about my 6 languages, literature awards, or amazing artwork. I sure don't I think I'm awesome, but it's hard to get me thrilled about anything I'm used to so I have little love for the waterfall of praise and admiration some guys vomit my way. This is another reason why I can't stand the type of appearance I mentioned - bald, short, or fat. By experience, they tend to fit the "malesub" description and enjoy bending over backwards to serve and flatter me, eyes cast down. I might even give them a chance if they wouldn't so far ALL have oozed this "willing sub"-ness. They probably feel insecure for their appearance, and hence grovel. Even if they look good - I know what that's like, looking great but with a flaw. Except, I no longer feel insecure about it. You ooze sub = you're out. You look at me like a poor kid looks at a PS4 = you're out. I don't like a man who thinks I'm so great because he isn't, I need a man who thinks I'm a great match or minion for his own flawed greatness.

 

I try to give him lots of opportunities to show what they know. I don't do it here as much because I'm not trying to attract anyone here. But in real life, I do believe I know how to make a man feel admired and special...

Unfortunately, I meet very few guys who will allow me to shut up and listen. I's always "Enough about me, you seem so fascinating". I love attention but not like that. I hate having to listen to myself talk, even when it's on request I feel way too self-important for doing it. I hate this right here because I don't know how to keep it short and humble.

 

The bold(er) ones you claim to be the most attracted to are often just fluff and posing. Very seldom that they deliver on the big words. You know this, right?

Nah... The ones I'm thinking about were bold and stuff, but within measure. No "Look at me and my biceps" guys, really. Just confident but also cynical and open-minded. They knew better than to demand or act "perfect" when they can have or be "great". Down to earth, basically.

 

Culture dictates that men be 'better' than the woman they are with. You claim to need that yourself. How does it bother you to be 'better' than the guy at something... as long as he is ok with it? Is it possible you can just find a balance? Where he is better at some things and you are better at other things? This is what I'm looking for.

The only thing in which I NEED a man to trump me, is height really. Anything else, meh. I can't read musical notes, he doesn't need to know Japanese.

 

What Gaius said is very true regarding intellect. If you are a very smart woman and insist on the gender role stereotype that the man should be taller, smarter, richer than the woman... your going to have a hard time. A wise less smart an would listen to his smarter young woman. Might those older 6 - 12 years older men just be wise enough to see what less seasoned young fools do not?

 

That said,Your first posting could be summed up in one sentence.

 

"Any man who wants to be with me isn't good enough for me because if he wants me something is wrong with him."

 

Might it be that on some unconscious level you either fear intimacy or suffer from low self esteem? The effect of either is for you to think "Why is this man interested in me? He must be desperate, not good looking enough to do better, and I don't want him". I find it hard to believe that every man that approaches you is objectively revolting and only the ones that ignore you are objectively attractive.

Wiser, yes, but I still don't like "obviously way old". Brrr.

I think you misunderstood. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone for being interested in me. I do think there is a type of men who (stereo)typically feel that there is something wrong with them and hence go for a girl who doesn't seem like she can afford to be too picky, but still decent enough to be their confidence boost. I don't want to be that girl, that consolation prize. Those are the ones who pursue me.

 

In terms of appearance I would place myself "above Michael Moore, below Patrick Dempsey". All I want, is some Matt Smith, decent-looking but nothing amazing. A guy where nobody would smile and say "Awwww inner values". I don't like the kind of guys to whom I am not an equally attractive partner, but a trophy. I don't want a trophy, I don't want to be one. I consider myself a 7 on a scale from 1 to 10, and all I want is a 5 to 8 man. I may hit on 9 and 10 too but I'm comfortable in my own league. But not below. It's the up-to-4 that adore me.

 

I simply feel repulsed/indifferent towards men who are shorter (a female dwarfing a male is unflattering for both sexes in my opinion), or those who would be inappropriate for approaching someone so much younger than themselves.

It's not fear of intimacy at all. I have met and dated men whom I liked and desired a lot but all happened to NOT be too far removed from my type. Some of those were utterly dumb and primitive, others were engineers. Some didn't even have a handsome face by any standards, they just weren't bald, short, or fat, which are my only dealbreakers.

And 6, 7 years older is not a problem but when you hit 40, that's a decade separating us. The thought of him being sexually active the day I watched the Lion King at the cinema while clutching my mom's hand, is just disturbing. Plus I want to enjoy many more years of my age-appropriate level of fitness and health, and share this with a partner in a more or less equal situation.

 

Self-esteem also has little to do with it. I just won't settle for anyone who is so far from my type. It's not that I feel "above" the type described above. I just feel I deserve MY type, whatever that is, I can't be expected to settle just because I'm not skinny or my hair doesn't touch my butt. Nothing more heartbreaking than settling for whoever volunteers for lack of choice. Some who aren't my type, look great. But don't attract me.

 

OP - the fact that you're 30 and have NEVER been in a relationship suggests that your problems likely run a lot deeper than the LoveShack mantra "how come the people I'm attracted to are never interested in me, and the people that are interested in me, I'm not attracted to."

 

You also have a history of having sex with men very early - often on the first date. If you actually are looking for husband / father material, this is a surefire way not to find it.

I know, that's what I'm trying to find out.

I used to think I'm too fat, but I get laid just fine and am still better-looking than a lot of happily married skinnies and much fatter women, I don't even have a muffin top or full cheeks and nevermind women who are simply ugly. I proceeded to blaming my complex personality, but hardly anyone even gets to know that. Same with my 6 cats - no speed dater knows about them before he skirts my table.

The guys I slept with at the first date are those I decided I didn't want for a partner the moment we shook hands, but sex is fun, so I hump and dump them if they look good, and I don't think that bothers them much. I would never have a date anywhere near a bed with someone I feel has serious potential.

 

You mentioned that you don't want an overweight man, but admitted you are overweight. Not extremely, but with a "butt like Adele's." Adele is pretty chubby. I like somewhat larger women if it's well-proportioned, but I'm very fit and athletic and wouldn't date someone who looks like Adele. This might be one of your problems--unrealistic expectations on the physical side.

I don't need an athlete either, just no fat guy. There's a lot in between. It's not because I'm big that I like big men, looks best on a female in my opinion. Females need to be soft, men need to be solid, is my mantra. And as for Adele, I only have her butt. The belly is flat and from my face alone you'd never guess I'm anywhere above a size 4.

 

As for accomplished, I'm not. I have great potential but also great misfortune. For now. Working on it.

 

This is too confusing even for me .. where are the commercials??

 

You might be blunt but youcome off kind of negative now I understand your probably upset and you're probably reaching that limit where you're on a time crunch.. so I don't blame you but when you meet somebody you need to be cool calm and neutral.

 

If I walked up to you you would probably scare me away and don't take that in a bad way it could be that I would feel intimidated maybe? Or I could just think and see it more as the mind f***?

You're right, I'm negative posting all this because it rubs my situation in my face. It's why I steer clear of psychologists. But when I go out to meet people, I always start out optimistic, cool, and cheerful. Which is my general attitude when I'm not wallowing in my problems by talking about them.

 

LOL I know, or at least I feel, I can be intimidating. I don't know, I like to think of and present myself as shy, dreamy and adowubble even if of impressive size. I've noticed a spark of delight in any man I approach for any reason (buying bread); never considered my cynical self that charming but if you ask anyone who "knows" me, I seem to be. I'm the one at whom the villagers shout "Hello girl" and "You're so stunning today" as she skips through the morning chill with her basket of milk and bread. Get the picture?

 

After reading your post, I can't help but feel that either your expectations for people are unrealistic (and sometimes shallow) or you think too much of yourself. Obviously I cannot know what the truth is, but that is just the vibe I get. Basically, you say that personality is important, but all I have gotten is that the men who are attracted to you are not good looking enough and the good looking men that you want do not desire you.

 

There is simply too much evaluation of people and too little actually getting to know them it seems like.

My expectations: tall, not bald, not fat, not creepily old, assertive, accept me. That's a very short list. I didn't say the men that repulse me aren't good-looking. I think many short, fat, old, or bald men are awesome-looking. I just personally feel nothing but turned off by these traits. A gay man will think this and that woman looks gorgeous but still feel the very, profound, opposite of attraction. That is not shallow, that is legitimate and natural. I don't think highly of myself, just that I, just as everyone else, am too good to waste myself on settling for anyone I don't sincerely feel attracted to, and that is looks-related only as far as attraction goes. I have loved many men who others told me are freaking hideous.

Attraction isn't about beauty. It's about being hardwired to gag at the thought of touching someone I'm not attracted to. If I were attracted to "ugly" men I would feel negatively about being pursued only by hot guys.

 

And why get to know someone I'm not attracted to? The human brain is able to determine a potential for attraction within seconds. Finding out that he's fun on hikes and knows molecular cuisine, doesn't make his touch any less disgusting for making your brain respond negatively/indifferently upon first contact. It's not shallow, it's chemistry. No spark, no match.

I need attraction on first sight, love can come later.

 

Unfortunately, this has the very common effect of fostering unrealistic expectations in women. They hook up with hotter guys who are out of their league, then conclude that since these hotter guys find them attractive (at least attractive enough for sex), they should be able to snag someone in that league for relationship purposes.

 

Doesn't work that way.

LOL if those guys were out of my league... They were decent at most, some are even ugly by anyone's but my standards I call them hot because I personally liked them but they would never get a model contract. Please do tell me how my expectations of "not fat, bald, or short" are unrealistic.

 

Really, all ages and genders tell me I'm very attractive when they have no reason to give me pity praise. I also get hundreds of responses from OLD but meh... the pattern.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Pompom

[RedRobin]

There are parts of your response to my post that I could and probably have written myself many times here on LS regarding my own dating/relationship predicament.

 

 

Like you, I get frustrated when I'm obliged to be the interesting one, when they are not. I've learned to be concerned when they are overly 'impressed' by whatever about me... because lots will then either take that as a challenge to overcome... and not in a good way. Or they will crumble into a ball of insecurity... which I will tolerate for a while... but I don't find attractive.

 

 

My response to either is to try and be patient. Although, patience is not my strong suit. As many have commented on here...

 

 

Regarding the physical... I'm like you and don't like a man who is physically soft. At all.

 

 

Where we differ maybe is that I'm looking for a peer. Which is probably next to impossible... because most men don't want a peer. I'm guessing most women must not either, otherwise they wouldn't be happy with those men. Or else, they find complimentary things that balance each other that women like you and I are blind to or simply resist.

[potsticker]

just a few things. Assuming you do get someone within your standards and end up with him: how would you react as you both age when he ends up with a beer belly?

 

Also, true love can be pretty damn blind. But taking care of ones physical appearances can definitely speed things up.... whether towards true love or simply lust, depends on the couple.

 

Lastly, it sort of feels like you want to either move fast or move on, and I think that might give out an intense vibe. This might be causing some of the problems you've been having with attracting the wrong type. I'm sure being intelligent and accomplished also has something to do with this vibe, but I think the way you approach dating itself is having the biggest impact. Ofc, feeling yourself get older isn't helping, I suppose...

[OnlyHonesty]

The reason for your current predicament is very simple and it's likely you already know what that is if you care to be brutally honest with yourself. You also contradict yourself in what you say in this post and those you have written elsewhere on this forum.

 

If you are not prepared to be brutally honest with yourself and just continue to dance around the possible reasons for your situation and avoid facing facts then it is unlikely to change.

[MrWombat]

When one too many desperates with limp handshakes and “please let this be easy”-smiles

You label them as "desperates", when your whole post tells us that you are a "desperate". These are the men equivalent to you in value. Attractive, confident, firm-handshaked men can do better than you. And they are. But you have long since worn away the part of your soul that can bond with an ordinary man.

So spend the rest of your life pining away for the men who were happy to have you when you were young. When you are old and alone, perhaps you will be able to tell the young women where your sort of lifestyle leads to.

[plowguy1]

It's pretty simple really, love is an equation

Mutual attraction, plus inability to do better = Love

Now it's pretty rare, because usually someone can do a little better and it nags them. In my experience its usually the woman. (they initiate 75% of divorces, men with children almost too small to count)

This explains it all http://i.imgur.com/PSNUf2U.png

I've made my peace with it, I'm one of those Old (48) mostly bald, but not fat guys. I've been married, had 3 kids, got left for someone younger, bigger. I guess after all that she just didn't accept "me" lolz

I just feel bad for my sons, all these "smart powerful" women with their worthless degrees. women, getting pumped and dumped by the top 20% of men with lots of options , thinking they'll get commitment. That is funny! Then looking around for the best of "what's left"

I tell them the stupid fairytale I was told is bull****! Marriage is dead, it's only for gays and the super religious now. I tell them live for themselves, don't have kids, and enjoy the decline.

Edited February 6, 2014 by plowguy1

[Weezy1973]

Honestly OP, I think you’re punching above your weight class – going for guys that are more attractive than you are. In your own words:

Everybody who could go for “better” than me by mainstream standards skirted my table.

 

Goodlooking or at least confident men have sex with me and move on.

 

Tried “getting out more”, I'm invisible, even when I'm tanning my half-naked self at the pool, nobody looks my way.

 

And also you seem quite hypocritical – for example:

 

Must accept me as I am, plus pets, that is all.

 

I don't have ridiculous standards. Tall, full hair, full teeth, not fat, not boney.

 

As for dating: can't stand that boring guy who wants to hear all about me because there's nothing to chat about him, prefers to walk slightly hunched, basically not a man eager to leave the sidelines. One who will say I'm right when I'm not.

 

I need a man with confidence, a firm handshake, speaking frankly, loud and clear, and the wish to be my equal, not my dog (also no jerk type!).

 

I'm sorry but when he's short, bald, baby-faced, much older, or overweight, I can't.

 

I'd hate to be more assertive or better-looking than my man. I can't be a lion dating a sheep. Either I'm the sheep or we're both lions. I want to be tamed, feel vulnerable, stop having to be so strong all the time,

 

Sometimes I wonder if it really isn't my big butt (not Donna Simpson-big, more like Adele-big)

 

What makes me so undesirable to men “who can afford standards”

 

That’s a lot of requirements for someone that doesn’t have “ridiculous standards”!

 

 

And then there’s this…

 

 

Except, the men there are so frustrating, wasting my time and hopes with their interest until they see me because they didn't look closely enough on my pictures. They think I have a slim face so I must be slim all over, even when I post pictures where it's clear from my upper arms or fingers that I'm not. I don't have any decent full-body pics up. I either look a lot fatter than I am, or a lot thinner, neither being good impressions. I never look on pictures as I do in mirrors. Where I look amazing.

First off – everybody looks good in the mirror. We can all suck in our gut and contort our face to look great. Also, due to desensitization, most people think they look better when they look in the mirror than how they appear in pictures. Of course how we appear in pictures is how we actually look to others…

Secondly, the fact that you refuse to put up a full body shot pic for OLD speaks wonders. Seriously – put up the one that make you look fat. Then the guy will be pleasantly surprised when he meets you…

 

 

I honestly don't believe in torturing myself to be accepted. If that's what it takes, then the relationship is based on shallowness and I'll be dumped the moment another flaw pops up. I cannot lose weight, and I don't see why I should.

 

For someone lamenting a relationship based on shallowness – that is literally all you’ve been complaining about – not having guys that meet your shallow standards. Here’s a list of things you don’t mention:

1. Honesty

2. Openness

3. Character

4. Dependability

5. Integrity

6. Loyalty

7. Fidelity

8. Compassion

9. Empathy

10. Trustworthiness

11. Work ethic

12. Communication

Well you get my point (although the list could go on and on) – if you’re looking for a husband and a father, it’s probably time you re-examined your priority list (and your own values).

[burningashes]

I sort of have the same problem. I'm genuinely interested in trying to date again, but it's been hard for me to meet men because I'm completely deaf. So it's not exactly like I can do speed dating, and I've been dumped for that in the past (true story ).

 

It's become an issue because a lot of men look at me as a liability. Not the ambitious, brilliant artist I am. I want to do a lot of things in life like learn a new language, enjoy fine dining, appreciate different cultures when I travel to different countries and so on. I have a list of accomplishments like yours, and want my partner to be equal to ME.

 

Maybe that's being a stickler, but I sure won't settle because I know I would never be happy with a man who's happy to settle for what I consider to be a sub-par life. Perhaps that's actually the greatest irony for me, that the tables are truly turned when it comes to dating ME, that I am really not the one who's a liability. I make sound financial decisions, and am very loving/loyal to my friends and family. I'm educated with a degree and I can do literally anything- become a forensic scientist, a lawyer or go pursue a PHD if I desire to. The only difference is that I can't hear at all and need to use sign language to communicate.

 

So I really do get where you're coming from. We don't want a guy who's not ambitious, we want men who can match us and keep us interested intellectually. Any hint of fakeness, you're out and have completely killed any interest that was there. I hope we don't have to settle, but it does come to a point where we have to decide what we can live with. We cannot ask for a mirror of ourselves, but we can look for men who have similiar interests as we do and who is willing to treat us as equals.

 

The heck with dumbing ourselves down for the sake of the others. This is 2014, for crying out loud. I am absolutely not interested in worrying whether my accomplishments are going to deflate other people's egos. I worked hard for it, and I'll be proud of myself when I'm asked about it. I wouldn't wax poetry about it, but I'd want my guy to be proud of me, and be my partner in crime in accomplishing similar ambitions and goals.

 

I'd say you just have to keep plugging away at dating, but keep in mind that you can't always get everything you ask for in a man. You will eventually find the right frog after kissing a bunch of boring ones

[Weezy1973]

Not the ambitious, brilliant artist I am. I want to do a lot of things in life like learn a new language, enjoy fine dining, appreciate different cultures when I travel to different countries and so on. I have a list of accomplishments like yours, and want my partner to be equal to ME.

 

I'm educated with a degree and I can do literally anything- become a forensic scientist, a lawyer or go pursue a PHD if I desire to.

 

There's a psychological phenomenon - I forget what it's called - but it's essentially falsely thinking that others have the same general worldview as you have.

 

Basically you have no idea about what attracts a man, and wrongly think that what YOU find attractive in a man is the same thing, or holds the same value, as what a man finds attractive or holds value in a woman.

 

Essentially everything you mentioned that makes you, in your opinion, a great catch, is essentially meaningless when it comes to most men. Honestly - you can be a "brilliant artist, ambitious, know multiple languages, educated, etc." and still be a horrible girlfriend/wife/mother. Nobody I know is attracted to those things you mention. Adele - brilliant singer/songwriter. I don't know one man that is attracted to her. It's meaningless. Melissa McCarthy - hilarious, great comedic actress. Nobody finds her attractive, that I know of.

 

Here are the only thing men care about:

 

1. Am I attracted to her physically?

2. Would she make a good girlfriend/wife/partner etc.?

 

That's it.

[Leigh 87]

Your standards are WAY too high.

 

It is great to have some standards. Too many standards will lead to you being without a partner for the remainder of your life.

You need to have a serious think about how you should go about relationships.

Personally, due to my age and personality, I have the good fortune of being able to date guys I have sexual chemistry with, and who are also great partners.

Where as a lot of women do not feel chemistry, a spark or much interest at all towards the only men who take an interest in them.

 

Your options: to be blunt, either get plastic surgery if you have a bad nose and lose weight or get lipo. Learn another language. Find another hobby.

Then ^^^^ see if you can attract guys that you feel chemistry with and who interest you.

See a professional about your personality and get an objective assessment. Learn how to be more desirable, positive and more appealing in general.

OR; you can "learn" to enjoy relationships with men who are good men and who treat you well and will love you. Men who you won't get excited about at first, nor will you "Want" to date them or necessarily even kiss them.

 

You CAN "learn" and or "grow" to love a person very deeply this way &&& by shooting within the league of people you can actually attract.

 

 

 

 

 

I have straight teeth - check out my pictures. Full lips and straight teeth. Clear skin. Nice eyes. I have a better figure than you by most peoples standards.

Yet you don't see me making "lists" that are unreasonable.

I don't need a guy to have straight teeth. I don't need a great body with a 6 pack.

I go for a guy who I have chemistry with and who I am excited about; who will treat me well and make me happy and give me the love that I deserve.

I couldn't care less if they are 50 lbs overweight, have slightly crooked teeth or scars from acne. AS long as I am not REPULSED by a guy, I open myself up to the notion of having chemistry with ANY guy that is a nice and seemingly decent and genuine man.

Your standards are TOO HIGH for the sort of person you are. If you were desirable to enough men, you would have had experiences with relationships by now.

 

 

Learn how to be more desirable, or accept the men who take an interest in you and GROW to like them over months.

 

 

^^^^^^^^^Personally, I got braces, lost my teenage puppy fat, went back to college and school after dropping out in the past, I fixed my acne through vigorous research and got a hold of the anti androgens I needed yet the doctors would never prescribe or tell me about until bloody well had to go and find my own cure to acne.

I learnt how to apply make up. I get my eyebrows professionally waxed. I stay out of the sun and look after my now clear skin.

 

I chose to IMPROVE my level of attractiveness in order to attract the men I was also interested in.

 

I urge you to do the same ^^^ or just accept what life has given you and make the most of it!

Edited February 9, 2014 by Leigh 87

[man_in_the_box]

Then there's the hurtful and crushing advice a guy I dated and who then bestfriend-zoned me, gave me. It's as pathetic and glorifying fakeness as his relationship (things happened): "Do what ultra-orthodox Jews do. Date a nice man who treats you right and as you live with him, you may grow to love and feel attracted to him". That is exactly why he cheats on her. Self-deceit never quite cuts it

To someone like me, that is like telling me to let myself be raped daily because eventually I may grow numb to it or even fool myself into believing I like it. I haven't survived a so far very difficult life to waste it now on a sweet illusion "in hopes of" the real thing.

Please don't tell me my rape comparison is offensive to real rape victims; been there and to an introvert like me being stuck with a person expecting affection when I don't feel much for them, is torture. I love people. But I need interaction to either be brief, or meaningful/intimate. My bubble has very limited space but I'm always loyal and loving to the ones I let in.

 

If you don't want to be called out on making such a ridiculous statement then don't make such a statement.

 

Many people have at some point decided to settle for less for whatever reason. Guess what, since they choose to do that voluntarily makes it completely unequal to rape. It certainly doesn't make all average and below men rapists (and women, I don't know why the men who date those expectations are completely downplayed). They just play the cards they're dealt with however they see fit.

 

It's your choice to either settle for less or hold out for something good. Welcome to reality.

Edited February 9, 2014 by man_in_the_box