In dating, when should you talk about difficult stuff?

January 31, 2014

Something I've run into again and again in dating and relationships is that I tend to meet guys who come from backgrounds that are much more stable than mine, and it seems hard for them to relate to where I come from.

My childhood was pretty troubled and dysfunctional - near poverty for most of my upbringing due to my dad getting laid off and never really recovering, emotional and verbal abuse, alcoholic mother (who did recover, but struggled with it for a few years). I keep in somewhat distant touch with most of my family, but my dad has pretty much driven all his kids away, so I've never been close to any of my siblings - though as I get older, I'm connecting with some of them, who have struggled with the same things I have due to our family dynamics.

I've come a long way and worked hard to create my own life with good friends who are like family. I started up and am running a small business that is doing well and getting better all the time. I see a therapist twice a month, mostly to help come to terms with having so little family support over the years, learning how to overcome near poverty and deal with my fears and false beliefs about money, and so on. Therapy has taught me a lot, including how to approach my very negative dad with a more compassionate attitude, and our relationship has improved somewhat through a lot of hard work. But we're never going to have a warm, sweet, "normal" father-daughter relationship.

I'm just wondering how soon during dating I should talk about this stuff. I usually don't get into it right away, because obviously it's personal and not first or second or fifth date conversation. But I'm starting to think maybe I should be more revealing up front, to help figure out if he's going to understanding and supportive, or dismissive and judgmental about my background.

I think I'm going to start dating again very soon, and wanted to get some opinions on this matter. When should you start talking about difficult stuff?

January 31, 2014

Make little references to people who have childhood similar to yours (say celebrities) without saying anything about yourself. See what your date says. What his opinion is.

If he sounds kind and supportive, break it to him slowly.

And frankly, you should be proud of who you are right now irrespective of your childhood situation, you built a good life for yourself. It's very admirable. Only jerks will judge you based on that.

I would say if he sees you beyond 3 dates then... start making any references.

January 31, 2014

I'll bring hints about it up early on, ie "Nah me and my mom aren't that close", while smiling and not seeming upset but I usually save the more in depth conversation for after the 3 month point.

January 31, 2014

Phew. Tough. I think when you get close to someone and ready to be exclusive, is when you should say something. Give the guy a chance to decide before getting too close. My current gf told me some shyte in our 3 or 4th meeting. I stayed with her, but I appreciated knowing so that I could make my own decision as to whether I wanted to continue or not w/o having had invested too much time or emotional energy.

January 31, 2014

Depending on how you frame your baggage- you could bring it up on the first date (lightly). You don't want to completely hide who you are or where you come from. You could certainly talk about growing up poor and overcoming it- but leave the fact that you're seeing a therapist for another time.

If you frame your baggage as a burden, and come across as someone still trapped by a difficult past, you'll send people running in the other direction. It's all about the delivery- and this can be done in small steps.

The first few dates should be light and fun- not a time to inject your problems into a conversation. I would start by introducing the facts, without attaching or addressing current problems.

I don't think most people would be overly concerned or surprised about your childhood or background. It's more about how you present yourself in the present.

Edited January 31, 2014 by D-Lish

January 31, 2014

I'll bring hints about it up early on, ie "Nah me and my mom aren't that close", while smiling and not seeming upset but I usually save the more in depth conversation for after the 3 month point.

I agree with this....you can make references. That's easy enough without having to go into a detailed conversation.

"I don't talk much with my parents" or "I'm not very close with my siblings" and keep the conversation moving.

January 31, 2014

Once you start to get serious bring it up. That is how I always did it. Just be honest about who you are and where you come from.

January 31, 2014

Once you're exclusive, and if they specifically ask. Otherwise, alluding to it in vague terms is fine - their natural curiosity will prompt openess.

January 31, 2014

Something I've run into again and again in dating and relationships is that I tend to meet guys who come from backgrounds that are much more stable than mine, and it seems hard for them to relate to where I come from.

My childhood was pretty troubled and dysfunctional - near poverty for most of my upbringing due to my dad getting laid off and never really recovering, emotional and verbal abuse, alcoholic mother (who did recover, but struggled with it for a few years). I keep in somewhat distant touch with most of my family, but my dad has pretty much driven all his kids away, so I've never been close to any of my siblings - though as I get older, I'm connecting with some of them, who have struggled with the same things I have due to our family dynamics.

I've come a long way and worked hard to create my own life with good friends who are like family. I started up and am running a small business that is doing well and getting better all the time. I see a therapist twice a month, mostly to help come to terms with having so little family support over the years, learning how to overcome near poverty and deal with my fears and false beliefs about money, and so on. Therapy has taught me a lot, including how to approach my very negative dad with a more compassionate attitude, and our relationship has improved somewhat through a lot of hard work. But we're never going to have a warm, sweet, "normal" father-daughter relationship.

I'm just wondering how soon during dating I should talk about this stuff. I usually don't get into it right away, because obviously it's personal and not first or second or fifth date conversation. But I'm starting to think maybe I should be more revealing up front, to help figure out if he's going to understanding and supportive, or dismissive and judgmental about my background.

I think I'm going to start dating again very soon, and wanted to get some opinions on this matter. When should you start talking about difficult stuff?

Don't overcomplicate it, babe.

Just do it whenever it feels right to you, and you feel comfortable around the man you're seeing. Only you can know when that perfect time is.

I can relate. Having an upbringing that isn't the most stellar can take lots of time to sort around.

Good luck out there.

January 31, 2014

If a man had family members that might cause trouble and negatively impact our relationship, I'd want to know. If he hadn't seen them in years and it was his decision for his own peace of mind, that would be fine. No crazy in-laws to deal with. Everyone has different ideas of "family" based on their own experiences.

January 31, 2014

My family is somewhat screwed up too, I usually don't bring up details about them unless specifically asked or if it pertains to a conversation where it fits in. Even then, I'm definitely not going into all of it on an early date, it has to be dealt in small doses or would scare away most men. And I agree with whoever said to keep it positive whenever it does come up, negativity would be a huge turnoff.

January 31, 2014

Something I've run into again and again in dating and relationships is that I tend to meet guys who come from backgrounds that are much more stable than mine, and it seems hard for them to relate to where I come from.

My childhood was pretty troubled and dysfunctional - near poverty for most of my upbringing due to my dad getting laid off and never really recovering, emotional and verbal abuse, alcoholic mother (who did recover, but struggled with it for a few years). I keep in somewhat distant touch with most of my family, but my dad has pretty much driven all his kids away, so I've never been close to any of my siblings - though as I get older, I'm connecting with some of them, who have struggled with the same things I have due to our family dynamics.

I've come a long way and worked hard to create my own life with good friends who are like family. I started up and am running a small business that is doing well and getting better all the time. I see a therapist twice a month, mostly to help come to terms with having so little family support over the years, learning how to overcome near poverty and deal with my fears and false beliefs about money, and so on. Therapy has taught me a lot, including how to approach my very negative dad with a more compassionate attitude, and our relationship has improved somewhat through a lot of hard work. But we're never going to have a warm, sweet, "normal" father-daughter relationship.

I'm just wondering how soon during dating I should talk about this stuff. I usually don't get into it right away, because obviously it's personal and not first or second or fifth date conversation. But I'm starting to think maybe I should be more revealing up front, to help figure out if he's going to understanding and supportive, or dismissive and judgmental about my background.

I think I'm going to start dating again very soon, and wanted to get some opinions on this matter. When should you start talking about difficult stuff?

This hurts my heart. You survived a rough up bringing. You have less to work with and must be self reliant. Guess what else? You have oodles of compassion and understanding for your fellow. A stream of kindness flows through you. I envision you to be much like your Avatar.

You childhood is not the scarlet letter of shame to be worn for all to know you by. It is something you CAN share with a good man who loves you when and IF you choose. Don't give any of this another thought. Give what you want and only to the deserving.

Do you think Charlize Theron or Oprah owed it to the world to share what they endured? We look to these women as icons of strength and beauty. We admire these women for overcoming the unthinkable beginning to become what we see today. They shared to inspire. It was a gift.

January 31, 2014

Oh ruby, neglect is an epidemic. I know how painful it can be when people don't take it seriously or they make light of it or act like you are complicating things by discussing this, but you aren't. It is imperative to gauge compassion with any future partner for you because your glasses are tinted by dysfunction. My wife and I both went through something similar and my wife endured years of physical and mental abuse.mwe were both raised to tough it out and discuss it, ever. I think it is best to talk about it as soon as you start seeing a tomorrow with someone. My wife and I spent a lot of years in denial and being strong and we missed an opportunity to really see each other as we really were and grow from it. When we finally did open up, issues we were having made so much sense. I started working with her on her own recovery from trauma and stopped trying to be perfect and overachieve to make up for a neglectful and sad childhood.

In hindsight we both wished we had went with my gut and her intuition and just laid it on the table early in our relationship. We fought many ghosts and each other when we could have been healing.

In support,

Grumps

January 31, 2014

I think when you are with someone you are interested in, you are curious to know about their childhood (or other difficult periods), their past feelings, everything. It just comes up at some point. You want to know what their life has been like. I was never put off by such stories, they probably made me love and understand the person a bit more.

January 31, 2014

I'm just wondering how soon during dating I should talk about this stuff. I usually don't get into it right away, because obviously it's personal and not first or second or fifth date conversation. But I'm starting to think maybe I should be more revealing up front, to help figure out if he's going to understanding and supportive, or dismissive and judgmental about my background.

IMO, having been married to such a woman, my suggestion would be to bring issues up as they arise and in a positive way, rather than as complaints. Show that you respect your FOO past and have moved on from it. That type of an attitude would have gone a long ways to bridging the divide in my M. My exW couldn't let go of the past, so it ate at our present. Another man might see things differently but I'm sharing with you what a man from a Beaver Cleaver FOO feels about such matters. We all have our life challenges. What we do with them defines us.

My favorite example was the common and repetitive complaint, when stuffing our pantry to the gills even when we were short of cash, that there was always beer and cigarettes in the (childhood) house but the kids had to fight each other for food.

I picked up one of those containers of 'wet wipes' to clean the toilet yesterday and realized it had been around here since from prior to us splitting up and that was nearly five years ago. That's how much the 'poor' lifestyle had impacted the present; hoarding. This has nothing to do with business; exW was quite successful in business and could schmooze with the best of them. It was personal.

No rush and stay positive.

Good luck.

January 31, 2014

I think it depends on the person you are seeing and how well you know them. Ie for example whether you knew them before you started dating. This is why I'm a big advocate of dating men after getting to know them through a social circle gradually. You can be more open and talk about stuff in the beginning. With a complete stranger it's hard.

I think you always know when someone struggles with similar issues and those that don't, those that come from a much more stable background, don't understand what instability really means. My ex husband after knowing me for 20 years still doesn't understand fully my relationship with money (that I'm really careful) because he didn't grow up in poverty like I did.

So what I do - knowing that talking simply about upbringing will not really make that much difference - is that I bring things up as they trigger me. That doesn't mean lashing out and speaking from an emotional spot. I realise what my triggers are and that the other person doesn't start them off on purpose. Being mindful of that helps me to explain how something affects me and through a specific example men get it. The last guy I went out with came from a very different culture. As soon as I pointed out the couple of things he did that gave me a cortisol rush, he stopped doing those immediately and even anything remotely similar.

January 31, 2014

I wanted to chime in again by giving my own perspective as if I were the recipient of the information, if I may.

If I were the guy getting information that is going to be heavy....

1. PERSONALLY, I don't need to know everything that has ever happened to you IF it will not interfere with our present and future UNLESS you feel it necessary to share it

2. I would like to know as much as possible, in general terms, considering #1, during a single meeting (of course I would like to be prepped and this is assuming we have dated some time and really like each other and moving to the next level of commitment)

Rationale: I think it's more disheartening to get pieces of information over a longer period of time instead of at once. It would feel like, "good grief, something else?" "how much more crap is she going to reveal to me over time?" Not good imho. I would like to know as much as possible in one serving so that I can digest it all, at once and then make my decision.

3. Do not sugar coat things. If it's important for you to tell me and it will be a factor in our relationship, don't minimize the importance of it. Don't over-dramatize either, but, don't pretend like it's something of the past and doesn't affect you now IF IT DOES.

4. I would appreciate that there's enough trust (after having spent quality/quantity of time together and looking serious) that you would allow me the honest and informed opportunity to make my own decision as to whether your baggage is something that I am willing to accept, deal with, etc. Please don't place me in a position, after falling in love, making real plans for a future to reconsider all that b/c you didn't tell me the truth. B/c you didn't have enough faith in me to be mature and b/c you weren't respectful enough to give me the chance to make a decision knowing you continue to have issues that are very relevant to our relationship.

Yes, there's a chance the guy is going to take off. It's risk that must be taken. Like I said in my earlier post, I chose to stay. If I had found LS prior and during my finding my gf, all kinds of people would be telling me to go NC, forget about her, you don't want all that baggage to be a part of your life....I am glad, in this instance that I didn't have to listen to all that. And I'm still with her. Believe me, my gf has had to deal with some unpleasant crap and at first I did pull back...but, it was short lived. In the end I appreciated that she trusted me enough to tell me what she did. She really liked (loves) me and gave me a few opportunities to take things slower or end it. She understood. But she was also not going to feel sorry or bad for what she went through and reminded me that she is the person she is today b/c of all that crap. She didn't minimize the issues of her past, but made it clear that they were of her past and that she is a stronger, better person for it. I admire that.

I stayed, but I stayed w/o having felt manipulated, tricked, deceived. This mode of acceptance, under my own terms, is very important.

Edited January 31, 2014 by soccerrprp

January 31, 2014

I come from a similar place: alcoholic mother, violent father. I applaud you for your hard work in pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and making a good life for yourself, despite it all. It isn't easy and what you've done, and continue to do (cause it's a long journey...) is worthy of respect.

In retrospect, I think one of the hazards of revealing my past was that I was then latched onto by some men who wanted to save me, or who were drawn for their own unhealthy reasons, to someone vulnerable and a little bit at loose ends in the world. Some reject that instability, some are drawn to it. I'm not sure which is worse, in the long run. But it's a factor to consider when revealing this information about yourself. Not only who will reject you, but who will find it an attractive feature - and why?

But I would focus on the now and future, rather than past. And be honest. What's important isn't why you're in therapy so much, as the fact you're there and it's an important part of your life at present. If you really want to know about a person, see how he reacts to learning that fact about you. Some will run on principle, others will be intrigued, many will have their own tales of woe that will come tumbling out when they find someone else who has taken charge of her life and is getting the help she needs.

About being without a bonded blood family..I would lay that out early by emphasizing your wonderful family of friends and how bonded you to them, then alluding to the fact they fill in the place of a rather disfunctional blood family. Over the years, my standard line has become: I had a rough start. And I leave it at that. Most people can understand enough from those words that they get the gist of things.

Finally, coming from poverty is nothing to be ashamed of. But do watch out for the ways it manifests in yourself and be self aware enough to tell *serious* dating candidates about them. As the other poster said, his exW was a hoarder becuase she didn't have enough to eat as a kid. This can be managed, if it's dealt with openly and as a matter of fact rather than a problem that can't be fixed. YOur dates will bring their own problems and baggage and issues. No one is free of it. How boring if they were.

Bottom line: you have much to be proud of. Follow your instinct about when to reveal all the great and not so great things about yourself. But earlier is better I think to avoid getting attached to someone only to have them dump you over something that is not your fault.

January 31, 2014

But earlier is better I think to avoid getting attached to someone only to have them dump you over something that is not your fault.

The only fault would be to NOT to divulge the relevant information before so much emotional energy has been expended. I also believe that dumping someone for something that is not "your" fault is reasonable IF it affects them NOW and will likely in the FUTURE. No one deserves or should feel obligated to accept someone regardless of what their past has been if it doesn't meet their needs or perception of a healthy relationship.

January 31, 2014

Personally, I feel no obligation to divulge things that happened TO me through things I had no control over. That's for me to deal with and process... Ideally with a professional. I have no interest in using my partner as a therapist. Nor are they qualified to have any feedback whatsoever. They weren't there... nor do I need to leave the impression that whatever happened leads to something chronic and negative.

OTOH, I feel it is very important to divulge MY behavior, history, likes/dislikes, and so forth... as soon as reasonably possible ie, when you know they can be trusted with something major.

It is another important reason I wait to have sex. I do not want to be told after becoming intimate about a possible deal breaker in someone's BEHAVIOR (either past or present)... nor do I feel it is right to pull them into a relationship only to tell them something major after the fact.

For instance... I divulged here on LS recently that my fiancé died suddenly. Notice that I didn't wave it around, because there is a lot about that incident that has nothing to do with dating now, nor do I wish to have that incident color everyone's opinions about me here. I mentioned it because it was relevant to the poster's experience and I thought it would be helpful. I'd do the same thing in a potential relationship. Context is important.

How my fiancé's death affects me now is all that matters... I've known for a long time that it has made me very sensitive to those men who try to push my boundaries sexually when I'm just getting to know them. In the past, not so much perhaps because the dating culture was different years ago and perhaps the experience brought to surface or created some abandonment issues... ones that even my divorce didn't unearth.

I do not have to explain WHY to those men. It is sufficient to explain to them that I prefer to go slow. Lots of people do for lots of different reasons. If they can't respect my requests, then that's a deal breaker right now. No need to go into a long-winded description why... because I'm not interested in giving those men some excuse to try an end run. Just respect my wishes or leave. It doesn't matter why.

January 31, 2014

Personally, I have found stuff like this to come out naturally in the process of getting to know someone. I don't think there is a set timeline you need to follow, nor do I think you have an obligation to divulge this info at all.

Of course, the past, especially childhood and family dynamics, will have a big impact on who you are and how you behave in relationships. However, it's your date's responsibility to figure out who you are and how you came to be, by getting to know you. A tough childhood iat it something to be ashamed of or something you need to disclose like a prior marriage or an std. It's something your date should want to find out about because he is interested.

I wouldn't date anyone who was put off by my past.

January 31, 2014

I'm starting to think maybe I should be more revealing up front, to help figure out if he's going to understanding and supportive, or dismissive and judgmental about my background.

I agree. I am usually probing family relationship topics after several dates (not 1st or 2nd) and I offer my information freely if she seems to be interested. This stuff is integral to who you are, although it does not define you by any means. It provides insight into your sensitivities and perspectives generally, and it's simply the first chapter in your story. If a guy seems insensitive, uninterested or judgmental then that tells you a lot about him as well. I would have a hard time visualizing a personality framework without some background info, so I think it's appropriate to go ahead and get it out there fairly early.

January 31, 2014

I picked up one of those containers of 'wet wipes' to clean the toilet yesterday and realized it had been around here since from prior to us splitting up and that was nearly five years ago. That's how much the 'poor' lifestyle had impacted the present; hoarding.

My ex was a bit of a hoarder too. The company where she used to work had a bargain closet that was open one day a month and sold overstock items from the larger holding company, mostly personal care type stuff. So we also had a closet full of this stuff... and garbage bags in the basement, and we supplied her siblings, gave it away to friends, and some of it we had to just throw away because nobody had any use for it. Well, one of the nice things she could get at a bargain was razor blades. This program existed for 7 years and ended 12 years ago. I am still using "free" razor blades that are at least 12 years old, four years after the divorce. I am probably going to run out in a few months and I dread the thought of having to actually buy those darn things. It just seems like they should be free forever.

January 31, 2014

OP, respectful of another poster's mentioning of 'triggers', IMO triggers are fine; I see them as emotional memories formed during an elemental portion of the maturing of one's personality. That said, we each have *choices* as to how we process those emotional memories and *choices* regarding how we act on them.

As an example, you could feel a 'trigger' through some otherwise inconspicuous or innocuous word or action of your partner and, at that point, you have a choice.

To the extent that I tolerated choices which attacked my character and family and gave the 'benefit of the doubt' were my failings in the relationship leading up to M. I never should have done that. Lesson learned. If a person makes choices antithetical to the healthy continuation of a relationship, then those choices have consequences; now, lesson learned, those consequences are my absence. Life is too short.

January 31, 2014

I do not have to explain WHY to those men. It is sufficient to explain to them that I prefer to go slow. Lots of people do for lots of different reasons. If they can't respect my requests, then that's a deal breaker right now. No need to go into a long-winded description why... because I'm not interested in giving those men some excuse to try an end run. Just respect my wishes or leave. It doesn't matter why.

It depends on how close you are to someone, at least to me. I usually give a reason why something affects me. Even if just take make sure that the person remembers it better. It's a context. I suppose I feel I can communicate it in a way that feels natural (at least to me) ie I don't feel exposed, etc. I don't recall anyone running (though these are small things, not what some people have gone through here on LS) but I feel it's important that I own those things.

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In dating, when should you talk about difficult stuff?

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