makeithappen Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hello, I don't understand why people who cheat are demonized like they killed someone. If you're a victim, I totally understand, but if you're a third party, why would you speak ill of cheats, like it personally means something to you? People are quick to name and shame, but if it does not involve them, why do they gossip so much about it like it's their business? If I learnt that my neighbour was cheating on their partner, I would not care. But if I learnt they had engaged in criminal activity, or something that isnot limited to their own love life, I would start caring. Sorry, felt the need to rant (and no, I am not a cheat, I am just shocked at all the hate they get from people who don't even know them or will be affected by their actions). RANT OVER
cozycottagelg Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I am not a cheat or a victim of cheating. I think on THIS board...you really only see one side or the other, so everyone has an opinion. You may be a third party to most cheating, but if you've been affected, typically on this site, an opinion is shared.
HermioneG Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hello, I don't understand why people who cheat are demonized like they killed someone. If you're a victim, I totally understand, but if you're a third party, why would you speak ill of cheats, like it personally means something to you? People are quick to name and shame, but if it does not involve them, why do they gossip so much about it like it's their business? If I learnt that my neighbour was cheating on their partner, I would not care. But if I learnt they had engaged in criminal activity, or something that isnot limited to their own love life, I would start caring. Sorry, felt the need to rant (and no, I am not a cheat, I am just shocked at all the hate they get from people who don't even know them or will be affected by their actions). RANT OVER Empathy. The moral knowledge that deception is wrong. The fact that infidelity greatly harms family. Harms the betrayed spouse and the family unit, and also the wayward and affair partner. True peace and happiness is never accomplished at the harm of another person. I think that's why, though I would disagree it is hate. 8
carhill Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 why is infidelity such a big problem to others? I haven't personally seen that in my demographic but one possible explanation is fear, absent personal experience. Another explanation may result from socialization and the mind forming certain absolutes from programming and projecting one's personal absolutes upon others as judgment. To an extent, all of us do this. 1
Author makeithappen Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 thanks for your replies. I did not mean on this forum particularly, but in everyday life, like: "so and so is such a ******, did you know that he/she cheated on their partner?... No morals, no care for the kids....." Then, an image of that person is constructed based on this single act, which spreads to other people, and before you know it, it's THE talk. People then already classify this person is the 'bad person' category, when they are themselves no angels! It is after all a only a personal affair.
FumoBlu Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I think it's one of those situations where you have to TRY to put yourself in the other person's shoes, or use as much empathy as Hermoine puts it, to not put other people in situations you would not want to be in yourself, though admittedly after a recent brush with temptation (my thread is called "I had to turn down my married fantasy crush" so there's a hint for you) I asked myself a variation of this question. As I've never been married and have mostly only had doomed dead end relationships which involved the other party engaging in some kind of cheating and/or disloyal behavior to me, I think I've pretty much lost all sensitivity to cheating. When I turned down this guy I'd been lusting after for a week, it wasn't because I had any loyalty to his wife, I don't even know her, I just know it's a bad thing to do, so don't do it. Like some people with autism or sociopaths (and no offense whatsoever to autistic people or sociopaths, and I am CERTAINLY NOT equating one to the other by any means) have to train them selves to react to emotions because they themselves can't feel them, that is how I now feel about cheating. At that point I had to pretend that I will feel bad, even if maybe I wouldn't feel terrible since I don't know his wife, just because I know adultery in theory is bad. HOWEVER, I know I would feel totally different if I did know his wife, had seen photos of her, had seen him with his kids ect., because then they become real, and I know that I am actively helping someone hurt others. I think the big deal about adultery is that it hurts other people, and you're just being a dick because you can be. Which is what I tried to avoid. I guess it's just about trying not to make things more difficult for other people. Should I ever find someone that I'm in a fully functional relationship with, let alone a marriage, I would hope that someone would extend the same courtesy to me. If nothing else, it's good karma, or at least avoidance of the bad. SOOOOO when people assume cheaters are bad people, it's usually because they are being empathetic, or have had some bad experience themselves, and it's looked down upon as breaking a promise, because it is. As humans we go by someone's past experiences, so I believe a lot of it is a mixture of all the previous things mentioned. Someone is either very empathetic, it violates their moral code, or they blame that person for causing harm to his/her loved ones. Edited January 30, 2014 by FumoBlu Post got cut off 1
HermioneG Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 thanks for your replies. I did not mean on this forum particularly, but in everyday life, like: "so and so is such a ******, did you know that he/she cheated on their partner?... No morals, no care for the kids....." Then, an image of that person is constructed based on this single act, which spreads to other people, and before you know it, it's THE talk. People then already classify this person is the 'bad person' category, when they are themselves no angels! It is after all a only a personal affair. I think, respectfully and luckily for you, you have not had this issue directly affect your life. When you have, and you see the havoc it wreaks, it may begin to feel differently to you than as just a "personal affair".
Confused48 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I think also it shows a window into that persons character and integrity or rather the lack thereof. So if you are a neighbor or doing business with this cheater, you would have to wonder, if they could devastate some one very close to them like that, what would they do to you, if they thought they could get away with it. 8
yellowmaverick Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Some people think that it is wrong to intentionally lie to and betray their partners. Some people have no problem with this. It comes down to your own personal moral code and what you can live with. 1
underwater2010 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I personally had NO RESPECT for people that cheat long before I ever became a BS. I worked at a bar two yrs prior to dday and all the employees joke that it is the place to go if you are cheating. It sickening and what is even worse is that you HAVE to be nice and give great service knowing what scum these people truly are. Whether people realize it or not....cheaters and their APs have a reputation to stranger and people that know them for being liars and lacking character. Most of them are never trusted even when the person dealing with them is not affected in anyway. 2
lace5262 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I've never been a bs or ww. Like others said, it is empathy. I feel horrible for the BS's and cannot imagine that kind of hell. It does also show a lack of character and integrity, and that's not the kind of people I want to be around. I don't respect liars/cheaters, and have no place for them in my life. And I am no angel, but that doesn't mean I have to be a devil either.
Jethro Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 It takes a special kind of person to betray someone so deeply close to you. An especially evil kind of person. It's a lot different than a crime against someone you don't know. There is little more valuable than the trust of your significant other. 4
ascendotum Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 It takes a special kind of person to betray someone so deeply close to you. An especially evil kind of person. It's a lot different than a crime against someone you don't know. There is little more valuable than the trust of your significant other. I agree with a number of posts that have the view that it does paint the person as an unethical character. They are betraying the implicit vow of faithfulness to their partner (very special person in their life...or at least once was), however I think calling it a crime and the cheating person as evil is too much. They may be selfish and have a callous disregard to their partner but the over whelming majority of cheaters don't have the intent to hurt their partner. They don't intend on getting caught so its a case of what they don't know wont hurt them. They don't think about the pain they can cause, because its over whelmed by lust, alcohol, thoughts of revenge or other misconstrued thoughts of justification at the time...plus..they really don't plan for their partner to ever know so no one suffers. I know full well its not the way it often ends up as so many get busted.
rumbleseat Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Like some people with autism or sociopaths (and no offense whatsoever to autistic people or sociopaths, and I am CERTAINLY NOT equating one to the other by any means) have to train them selves to react to emotions because they themselves can't feel them, that is how I now feel about cheating. First, I do take offense at that statement. It's ill informed. People with autism most certainly DO have emotions and feelings, they just can't express them or read them in others in the same way most other people do. I say this as someone who is high functioning on the autism spectrum. I most certainly can't feel emotions Rant over. As for the Op's question. If I knew someone was in an affair, that would tell me something about them, their ability to be honest and their value system. I value honesty in myself, and I value it in other people. While infidelity may not be illegal, it is very hurtful so what does it say about a person that they can involve themselves in something that they know is hurting someone else?
Lady2163 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 In my opinion only, I think there are two kinds of cheaters... 1) Someone whose needs are not being met 2) Someome who is just a dog (whether male or female) There is a movie called The Last Castle. In it, there is a Marine who has been convicted of murder, and he is probably borderline retarded - developmentally delayed (IQ under 70). At one point the hero says to him, "The way I see it you were a good Marine except for 30 seconds". Or words to that effect. There are worse things than cheating in a marriage. I do not look at the act of cheating as the whole picture of a person. A cheater can still be a good parent. A cheater can still be a good and loyal employee. Oftentimes on forums, people are quick to assume that if someone cheats, they are horrible people who can't be trusted in any way.
rumbleseat Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 In my opinion only, I think there are two kinds of cheaters... 1) Someone whose needs are not being met 2) Someome who is just a dog (whether male or female) There is a movie called The Last Castle. In it, there is a Marine who has been convicted of murder, and he is probably borderline retarded - developmentally delayed (IQ under 70). At one point the hero says to him, "The way I see it you were a good Marine except for 30 seconds". Or words to that effect. There are worse things than cheating in a marriage. I do not look at the act of cheating as the whole picture of a person. A cheater can still be a good parent. A cheater can still be a good and loyal employee. Oftentimes on forums, people are quick to assume that if someone cheats, they are horrible people who can't be trusted in any way. People know right from wrong. Lying and deceit are wrong, and they made the choice to do those two things. It's not something they had no control over, it's not done in the heat of the moment ( maybe a one night stand is different , but not an affair that spans a longer period of time). It doesn't make them a horrible person, but it can be indicative of what choices they will make, how entitled they feel, and how they view the concept of honesty within the bounds of a relationship. People do make value judgements, for better or worse, based on the limited information that they have to go on. One of these pieces of information is infidelity.
MissBee Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hello, I don't understand why people who cheat are demonized like they killed someone. If you're a victim, I totally understand, but if you're a third party, why would you speak ill of cheats, like it personally means something to you? People are quick to name and shame, but if it does not involve them, why do they gossip so much about it like it's their business? If I learnt that my neighbour was cheating on their partner, I would not care. But if I learnt they had engaged in criminal activity, or something that isnot limited to their own love life, I would start caring. Sorry, felt the need to rant (and no, I am not a cheat, I am just shocked at all the hate they get from people who don't even know them or will be affected by their actions). RANT OVER Where did you see this? Did something specific happen which led to this rant? I mentioned this in another thread once when someone posed a question about how did people react to finding out about their affair, for her apparently people reacted better than she expected and her conclusion was that since people weren't outraged they were okay with infidelity. My response was that that wasn't a logical conclusion, as being okay with infidelity and not being outraged by it aren't the same. That is, people generally dislike infidelity but if it doesn't involve them or those close to them they're not gonna be that invested in it, they may think it's wrong or judge you in their minds but to get outraged? Unlikely. It also depends on who you are (public figure, someone in a supposedly respectable position etc) and where you live (small town, big city etc) which will determine just how much people care/talk about it. But generally, I haven't experienced what you're ranting about. I don't see people walking around randomly outraged and "hating" cheaters. They gossip if it happens in their circle or if it's in the media but in my own experience, the gossip is just gossip and not hatred...people gossip about all kinds of things and then move on. I haven't come up on lots of cases of third party outrage in real life (discussing on a message board may be different as people are here to express opinions and discuss these things and their opinions in discussion may get heated but that's different than walking around in daily life reacting like that). Most people are not that invested unless it involves them/people close to them from my own experience.
Grumpybutfun Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I agree with a number of posts that have the view that it does paint the person as an unethical character. They are betraying the implicit vow of faithfulness to their partner (very special person in their life...or at least once was), however I think calling it a crime and the cheating person as evil is too much. They may be selfish and have a callous disregard to their partner but the over whelming majority of cheaters don't have the intent to hurt their partner. They don't intend on getting caught so its a case of what they don't know wont hurt them. They don't think about the pain they can cause, because its over whelmed by lust, alcohol, thoughts of revenge or other misconstrued thoughts of justification at the time...plus..they really don't plan for their partner to ever know so no one suffers. I know full well its not the way it often ends up as so many get busted. I usually agree with your posts. Evil is the opposite of good and when someone betrays the person the are supposed to love, respect, protect and be a partner with, it is definitely on the dark side of grey regardless of circumstances. People also have a choice to divorce instead of cheating if their marriage isn't working but they either want their family and their lover, or they want to juggle so they can have drama and excitement or they are too cowardly to own up to their transgressions. I am mostly talking about people who cheat in marriages because there are vows and promises to uphold. Marriage is when you stand up in front of her/his parents, friends and family and promise to be their soft place to fall. Instead, when people cheat, they end up being the most pain a person can stand outside of losing a child. I wouldn't trust a man or woman who cheated on their spouse with my dog, let alone my finances, my friendship, my business or my time. I wouldn't bother gossiping about their drama or invest much emotionally either way, so cheaters are usually just ignored by me. Toxicity is only acceptable when people stop having standards and expectations. That sounds fairly evil to me when people destroy for the sake of their own desires. Best, Grumps Edited January 31, 2014 by Grumpybutfun
MuddyFootprints Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Fortunately, we aren't all branded irl. Sheesh, grumpy. There are a lot more 'faithful' people you could trust less. Though, I will admit, your dogs would go home more than a little spoiled. I still can't seem to set my boundaries there.
FumoBlu Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 First, I do take offense at that statement. It's ill informed. People with autism most certainly DO have emotions and feelings, they just can't express them or read them in others in the same way most other people do. I say this as someone who is high functioning on the autism spectrum. I most certainly can't feel emotions Rant over. As for the Op's question. If I knew someone was in an affair, that would tell me something about them, their ability to be honest and their value system. I value honesty in myself, and I value it in other people. While infidelity may not be illegal, it is very hurtful so what does it say about a person that they can involve themselves in something that they know is hurting someone else? My apologies to have offended. My step-brother, whom I was very close with, is also autistic, and that is how he explained how he feels to me. I'm aware that everyone has different experiences, of course, but that particular struggle is how he liked to explain how he felt to others that did not understand his condition, as he called it. Of course I know that everyone is different, so I probably should have made the statement sound less general, but most of my response was fairly disjointed.
Woggle Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Because people generally don't like being betrayed and lied to.
Ruffian1 Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Whether people realize it or not....cheaters and their APs have a reputation to stranger and people that know them for being liars and lacking character. Most of them are never trusted even when the person dealing with them is not affected in anyway Yep. Cheating tells a lot about your character. Look at Anthony Weiner. Had to resign from congress. First he tried to lie his way around it, yeah, cheating and lying go hand in hand. He is a joke to the voters now. He never stopped cheating, even in 2013. Weiner lost the mayoral primary with less than 5% of the vote. When asked by reporters what he would do next, Weiner gave them the middle finger. What a class act. Not everyone cheats, and those that do have to deal with the consequence of their choices and the way people will now view them differently.
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