supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Ok I appreciate this may cause some controversy here but I'd be very grateful of any advice/ thoughts on this... I would not say that I am a 'traditional' female and in fact I strive to be as equal to a man as I can. I'm in a good job and support myself etc. I can't work this out but still, despite feminist tendancies, I am turned off if a guy doesn't pay for at least one stand-alone round of drinks or entry to a club etc. on a date. I really like someone and we've been on 8 dates or so. Moving into relationship territory or he's certainly gave signals he wants that. Only... I've been biting my toungue as from the 1st date everything has been split down the middle. Sure, on a 1st date guys don't know if it will work out so why bother with dinner etc, go in rounds for drinks. But we've been for meals, theatre etc and everything is split. We went for breakfast and it was like $5 each and he still split the bill at the till. We both really like each other, seems a shame to rock the boat with confrontation about bill splitting. I can pay my way... but something deep down feels put out and just wants the gesture or to be 'treated' once. Once would do. I don't know why? How do I articulate this without actually saying that... as I will come across as needy/controlling/demanding. Perhaps I am in this thread, not sure. Anyone resonate with this?? All opinions appreciated.
PegNosePete Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Be the change you want to see. Why don't you say "I'll get this one. You can get it next time"? 12
lolablue17 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Oh, come on... An advice: next date insist that you will pay everything, dont take no for an answer. I'm sure the date after he will offer to pay. I'd ask: did you have sex already? because the full formula is "the guy pays, the girl return sex)
Author supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 Exactly Lola.. I'm just not sure anymore- I don't understand what the problem is to me with splitting bills. Why not? But that one time to feel 'worthy' or some BS like that won't go away. Already did this guys... I bought tickets to a play last week, in the hope that he 'got' it. I said 'my shout this time, easier than always splitting stuff etc' or something similar. Gesture not returned. Interestingly no sex as yet. Stayed over a couple of times but he let me know before anything happened that he didn't want to go there yet. I am baffled. He talks about me all the time to others, parents want to meet me and he acts like he's crazy about me.
Survivor12 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 If you don't mind answering, how old are you? 1
PegNosePete Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I bought tickets to a play last week, in the hope that he 'got' it. I said 'my shout this time, easier than always splitting stuff etc' or something similar. Gesture not returned. Well, you forgot to say "your shout next time". You just assumed he would get it, but he didn't. Maybe you need to spell it out for him. Communication is important in a relationship. If you can't communicate this - or aren't happy that he didn't pick up on it - then imagine what a terrible time you're going to have in the future when really important issues come up.
Author supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 Sure Survivor- 29, he's 32. Thanks Pete, I quite agree. I suppose the million dollar question is... how do I communicate/ articulate this to him without sounding confrontational or controlling? I mean If I imagine it in my head it sounds terrible. Asking someone why they haven't 'treated' you or paid for one date is just rude. I wish the turn off feeling would just go away, but it's like social ettiquette or something. It's not fair/ nice that guys should pay on a first date etc... but it's culturally expected even now. How could he be clueless to that? (Films TV etc) And whenever I try and address this with my female friends/Mom etc... they just go 'oh he didn't pay? DUMP. No one likes a greedy man'. So then I find myself arguing equality and getting myself in knots again.
Philosoraptor Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Well looks like this is just how he is. The real question is do you like him enough to continue to see him knowing he may never treat you when you go out? 3
PegNosePete Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Possibly he has been used in the past and doesn't want to be taken advantage of. Well, I'd go with my original suggestion. "I'll get this one, you can get it next time, deal?" Yeah I know you've already paid for him before... but this time get him to acknowledge that he is expected to return the favour. If he still doesn't get it after it's spelled out then... well, you have a glimpse of how difficult this relationship is going to be. 5
salparadise Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 ...but something deep down feels put out and just wants the gesture or to be 'treated' once. Once would do. I don't know why? How do I articulate this without actually saying that... Just say, hey man... my autonomic nervous system is in disarray over this equality $hit and I need you to be a sport and help me equilibrate. Take this bow and arrow (club, knife, slingshot or whatever) and go into the woods and bring me back a dead animal, the larger the better. Gut it, cut it up and start a fire by rubbing these two sticks together. Then, while the meat is smokin', grab me by the hair and drag me off behind a tree and phukk me like you own me, like a neanderthal. No words, just grunts and drool. If you could do that for me just once I think everything will be fine after that. 5
Author supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 That was too funny. Ok, ok I'm being ridiculous.
Survivor12 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hmmm...Is it at all possible that he could be gay? I ask this because it could account for his eagerness to introduce you to his friends and parents even though you aren't a couple & him holding back on the physical stuff. I have had many gay friends over the years, and I know that several of them went through a period of trying to convince themselves--but more so their friends--that they were straight before eventually coming out. One, in particular, had a female roommate who, for years,his parents thought was his gf when in fact she was his "beard" and their relationship was purely platonic.Reading your post reminded me of the story of their early days before he was able to accept his sexuality and she had no clue. Even so, they did have a special bond and I know he cared for deeply as a friend. As for not paying, it could be that (even subconsciously) he is resistant to the idea of being a "traditional couple" so he's holding back more than sex. 1
carhill Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 How does he show he's 'crazy' about you? Regarding the talk about paying, example: 'I thoroughly enjoy doing something special for a person I care about. How do you feel about that?' Listen. My exW and I were 'older' when we dated and my recollection was that our transition from 'splitting', to the extent we did, to more relationship-type behavior was when she invited me over and cooked me a really good dinner, something she would shine at during our M, both for myself and entertaining others. YMMV, but 'progress' is what I'd be looking at, and eight dates is a lot of 'getting to know'. Good luck. 1
Author supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks for all points so far. In regards to the gay comment- it's a fair one, but I'm not sure. It could explain the sex thing I suppose also... but lots of variables there. I'm quite perceptive and so I'm sure I'll pick up on additional signs should they appear. He shows he's crazy about me by what he says and does I suppose. Again, now it kind of leans towards the sexuality point, but yea he openly shows his affection amongst his friends and doesn't seem afraid to. He did also invite me over and cook for me too. He just says things that no other person has as such, like he thinks I'm really funny or intelligent etc. I do really like him, I just want shirk off this sexist rubbish coming from myself. But the feeling IS there, therefore felt I needed to address it. I wanted others opinons so that I would be making a completely rational decision either way. Aristotle's '10 virtuous people' etc
MsOptimist Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I can kind of relate to this. My bf and I have been dating for over 6 months now and we tend to split nearly everything, which I am fine with. On the first date I offered to split the bill and was kind of surprised by his eagerness to do so. Oftentimes lately one of us will foot the bill one day and the next time the other will. We both have good jobs, and I am self sufficient and don't expect anyone to take care of me. He is a single dad of 2 young boys and has been a single dad for 3 years. It wasn't until I learned more of his situation that I understood more of where he was coming from. In the past 3 years his ex wife has been unemployed for most of that time, therefore he has been the sole provider for everything that his boys need. That and the divorce have made things tight for him financially, and now that we're much more serious we have talked about that more in detail. He truly appreciates me understanding that it makes it a lot easier on him when we split the bills on our dates. So could it be something like my situation, where there's a bit more to the story that maybe it's too soon in the relationship for you to see all of the pieces?
carhill Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 He shows he's crazy about me by what he says and does I suppose. Again, now it kind of leans towards the sexuality point, but yea he openly shows his affection amongst his friends and doesn't seem afraid to. He did also invite me over and cook for me too. I was looking for specific actions/words, especially those which rang true as valued by yourself, as examples of where transparent care can be exhibited in ways other than 'picking up the check'. What's his relationship history? When interacting with his family, since you have, what's your impression? How do they 'take care' of each other? Do you feel synergy in the confluence of his familial interactions and those with yourself? Here's a question: Do you think he's 'cheap' because he doesn't pay? Why?
Author supercallafraj Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks both. Hmmm I actually can't answer you then on the 'other ways' question. Too soon to tell perhaps? I haven't met his family, he just wants me to and references conversations where he's mentioned me and that they want to meet me etc. I think it's too soon for that. I suppose deep down perhaps I am worried that he's 'cheap' or 'greedy' so to speak, as I don't resonate with that. I'm a generous person and always pay for my familly and friends. I treat my friends to lunch sometimes etc and they do me, without counting scores. His relationship history is hazy for me but it really doesn't sound like he's had long term one. He only mentioned an 11 month one and he says he's v fussy about women and has been looking for an intelligent, beautiful etc one for a long time. Honestly.. I really enjoy his company and being around him and think about him all the time. It's just the reservation and worry about future greed I suppose. I also get embaressed splitting stuff when other friends/ gfs pay for each other, wether it's the male or the female. There was also one of the dates when we went to a bar you had to pay in with his friends. He paid one of his female friends into the bar ( like $6 max ) as she said she was broke and then I paid for myself. It just didn't sit right with me. If I had been at the front of the que, I'd have just said 'two please'.
colombiana28 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Don't be made to feel bad because you're put off by splitting all the time. It's extremely tacky. I find myself less attracted to a man simply because he's into "going dutch". In my experience, a guy will pick up the first date. Period. Which in my entire lifetime has never been more than $10, because smart men don't do dinner or expensive stuff on the first date. It is INCREDIBLY attractive when a man treats you as your first impression of him. So then after that, you trade off. I'll pick up date 2, he picks up date 3, and we just continue to treat each other. Sure, maybe I pick up 2 in a row sometimes, or he does, but in the end it balances out. There. Done. Equality. Some men get it, some don't. It's not about setting some crazy precedent where a woman is draining you for all you're worth. JUST PICK UP THE GODDAMNED CHECK ON THE FIRST DATE. Such a simple gesture does SO MUCH for a woman's subconscious, animalistic attraction. Just like how a woman acting feminine and doing sweet things for a guy turns him on, so does a guy acting masculine and "picking up the first one." F that...maybe it's just cause I live in the south, but most men I know would find it absurd to split the freaking check on the first date. And these are awesome, progressive dudes who also are not going to be taken advantage of. Again, in MY opinion, men should pick up date 1. And a woman should be more than willing to pitch in her fair share, and should be swiftly dumped if she has an entitlement complex. But splitting checks is the epitome of tackiness. 5
Keenly Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 . It's extremely tacky. I find myself less attracted to a man simply because he's into "going dutch" . JUST PICK UP THE GODDAMNED CHECK ON THE FIRST DATE. Such a simple gesture does SO MUCH for a woman's subconscious, animalistic attraction. As a guy that always pays for dates, I'd be so turned off I ever heard you express this attitude. You expect it, hell you demand it. Huuuuuuuge turn off. 1
O'Malley Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 There was also one of the dates when we went to a bar you had to pay in with his friends. He paid one of his female friends into the bar ( like $6 max ) as she said she was broke and then I paid for myself. It just didn't sit right with me. I think he's shooting himself in the foot. Certainly neither of you should be viewed as an open wallet on dates, but that's not the issue here. It's indicative of his character that he has no problem with paying his friend's way, but seems unwilling to treat you on a single occasion, and that's after you paid for both tickets, when he should at least make an effort to reciprocate. If someone pays for my way on an outing, I'll be offering to pay for drinks or dessert afterwards or be treating them the next time. To not do so is poor manners, regardless of gender. 1
Eau Claire Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I'd be long gone. I want to be made to feel special....finding ways to impress me....Win me over. I'll let others form relationships based on some equal division of whatever. I want a man who treats me not because he has to but because he wants to. Also, at that age I'd expect a male to be financially stable. If the few dollars spent on a meal or a date had any impact on his finances, how responsible had he been up to that point in life? 1
colombiana28 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 What's suuuuuper hilarious is when men cry "double standards!!!" "cake eater!!!!!!11" when it comes to having to pay for a woman, and yet if they're ever in a living situation with one, you better believe they're not going to be the ones doing HER laundry and cooking HER dinner and rearing the kids. Being progressive and believing in gender equality is great, but most men will take the split bill...but will also take the woman doing most of the house work. Crazy how that works.
colombiana28 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 BTW, I love cooking for my man. I love massaging his feet after a long day, surprising him with a drawer full of clean clothes, putting cute love notes in the lunch I pack for him. Not because he demands it but because I want to make him feel like a MAN. But goddamnit, I'm such a cake-eating wench because I want to feel like a lady and have my 2 f*ckin' beers paid for on the FIRST date.
Iguanna Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 A woman "wants" a man to pay in order him to show that he is a giving and caring person, or at least this is how it is mostly interpreted subconsciously (if he can't give say 20 dollars for a meal, how do I expect him to give me love?). But lets be honest, there are other ways to understand if a guy is a person willing to give love and take care of a woman. How is his behavior other than this? Is he a caring person? How does he act towards his parents and his friends, and of course to you? If everything else is satisfying, I think him paying for you is something minor. If there are more issues, then I guess you want him to pay in order for you to "tick" this box in his favor "ok, he paid, so there's one false less on him". If everything else is ok and you so much want to be treated, you can have an honest conversation with him about this matter and understand why he is acting this way. Maybe his reasons will be different than what you think. 8 months is a long enough time to be comfortable and have this conversation with him. You can start by saying "a friend has told me that she wants guys paying her all the time, what do you think about this?" in a casual way. So you'll know his reasons.
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